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Wisconsin Dems-the party of NO!

  1. profile image69
    logic,commonsenseposted 6 years ago

    Running off to Illinois, the Dems in the Wisconsin state legislature were too cowardly to face a vote that they knew they would lose.  Tremendous statesmen these cowards are!  If they had a better idea why weren't they able to convince anyone of it?  It's all a political ploy designed to get themselves reelected without having to sacrifice any political capital.
    They do not care if the state goes broke, as long as they get reelected.
    Kudos to the Republicans in the Wisconsin legislature for having the courage to face the reality of the budget crisis and deal with it without regard to the political ramifications.  We can only hope the Republicans in the US House will grow the same kind of backbone!
    Yeah, there are some that will villify them for union busting, but the truth is the union hasn't helped matters at all.  Then there is another thing to consider.  If the state goes broke, the union won't have any members anyway, as they will be unemployed.
    Hopefully the bill passes and the American taxpayer will not have to bail out Wisconsin, like Obama wants us to bail out other states that have been too blind and ignorant to keep themselves from going broke.

    1. Stump Parrish profile image61
      Stump Parrishposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Unions have for the most part out lived there usefulness. Just like the republican party has. Every arguement the republican party makes against the unions can be applied to the very same abuses they claim to be fighting. They are simply fighting for dole pocession of the right to screw this country over, Amen

    2. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Republicans want to balance the budget on the backs of the working class.

      In this case school teachers.  The first stage of slashing their wages and benefits is to castrate the union that can protect them. My bet is the unions will accept a pay cut for the good of the state IF it's coupled with tax increases on the fat cats the GOP wants to protect and serve at all costs.

      Make the rich pay their share FIRST before you go to screw elementary school teachers.

    3. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Unions, like democrats care only about themselves! They don't care if there members get fired as long as it isn't them the more senior members... they don't care about the students either that they have to make up classes and missed school meal programs and they don't care about the tax pagers many out of work and losing homes but are still paying taxes that support pensions that are free or medical benefits for life something no one in the private sector gets! And who organized these protestors? Well go to barackobama.com and see for yourself! Its no secret how Obama is a slave to the unions of this country. His policies have rewarded them greatly at the detriment of American citizens. Andy Stern while president of SEIU had over 20 visits to the White House.

      1. Doug Hughes profile image60
        Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        From CNN - "But the state's Legislative Fiscal Bureau -- similar to the federal government's Congressional Budget Office -- reported last month that tax cuts passed late last year by Wisconsin's newly-elected, Republican-led legislature had helped add more than $200 million to the state's budget shortfall."

        Tax cuts for the rich and salary cuts for teachers.....

        1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
          uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          blah blah blah --- liberal cliche --- blah blah blah --- bumper sticker insight --- blah blah blah --- 100 year old socialist rhetoric --- blah blah blah

          do you know any new songs this one is very very very very old.

          1. lovemychris profile image81
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Maybe the Republicans should stop playing it then!!!

        2. lady_love158 profile image61
          lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          You have your facts wrong as usual... no one is getting a pay cut. I know I've explained this before and maybe since you don't pay the bills in your household you can't comprend this but a loss in income does NOT cause a shortfall. Anyone that's ever had a paycut has had to adjust their appending downward.

          1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
            Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "You have your facts wrong as usual."
            Yes, you do.

            The Wisconsin teachers are facing pay and benefit cuts, but the main thing they don't want is their right to collective bargaining stripped away.

            "I know I've explained this before and maybe since you don't pay the bills in your household you can't comprend this but a loss in income does NOT cause a shortfall. "
            If you're spending 100% of your paycheck on essentials, yes it does.

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              They're being told they have to contribute to their retirement and medical plans... they still have collective bargining for their salaries I didn't see anywhere where they were getting a cut! 100% essentials??? Really?? Come on jeff you don't believe that!! Lol

              1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
                Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Okay, if you're spending 100% of your income on food, clothing, shelter, heating, electricity, and transportation to and from work, and you lose 10% of your pay, you'll still have enough money for all of those things. I assume through some sort of alchemy?

                It's basic math. If you make $100/week, and your expenses add up to $100/week, and you suddenly make only $90, you've got yourself a $10 shortfall.

                I could be wrong, I guess. I didn't major in Math and I didn't use a calculator...

                1. lady_love158 profile image61
                  lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  I'm not stupid Jeff!!! Don't tell me WI can't cut somplace! Oh wait... that's right they did they took a little somthing from the greedy pigs!

                  1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
                    Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    "I'm not stupid Jeff!"
                    I didn't say you were, did I?

                    "Don't tell me WI can't cut somplace!"

                    Oh, see, I thought you were talking about teachers' pay. I was talking about teachers' pay, anyway.

              2. TomC35 profile image61
                TomC35posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Lady, if you looked somewhere than Fox (not the)News you might see the real facts.  It is all about stripping collective bargaining power.

                Think about what the term means.  They want to divide and conquer.  Remember those good old days of the early 20th century before unions and worker protection laws? That is because they were not good old days.

          2. lovemychris profile image81
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Umm, have the wealthy had anything cut, in-- oh say the last 30 years?

            Where is their sacrifice????

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Lol! Eat the rich is your mantra! You hate them just because they are rich! Why does being rich entitle the government to confiscate their property?

              1. lovemychris profile image81
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Sounds to me like you consider workers their property.....

                maybe THAT is the problem!

                1. lady_love158 profile image61
                  lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Nonsense!  Bite the hand that feeds you much?

                  1. lovemychris profile image81
                    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    He would not eat without me.

              2. TomC35 profile image61
                TomC35posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Do the math lady.  If 1% of the population owns even 60% of everything, then how can the system not fail?

                1. lady_love158 profile image61
                  lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Sorry you'll have to spkaon it to me... its not like we're all farmers! Lol

                2. lovemychris profile image81
                  lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Right! It is BOUND to fail. Simply by the basics of balance that holds the universe together.
                  Unbalance creates chaos confusion and coo-coo's! Oh Glenn!!!.......Michelle!!....Sarah!!!.....

        3. AnnCee profile image78
          AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Democrats think they can strap themselves to the public teat for life, overtax and over regulate business until it fails or moves on to greener fields, enlarge and engorge government endlessly, overtax and abuse private citizens and just go on that way forever.   Good morning idiots, you create Detroit and DC.

          Democrats take perfectly good American cities and states and turn them into third world slums.  Over and over again like crazy people.

          1. lady_love158 profile image61
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Here-hear!!

  2. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Bullsh*t!

    The Republicans want to end the union, plain and simple. They want to prevent workers from having any say in their destiny.
    "Leave it all up to the Boss" is their mantra.
    Wisconsin is the home of unions! The Democrats left so the Repubs couldn't shove this bill down Wisconsin's throat, and end 50 years of good life for working people!

    It is a heroic and excellent move. Only way to fight the tyranny of Repub control.

    BTW---they are crying (R's) about 130 mil deficit......they JUST GAVE business 150 mil in tax credits!

    Do you see the little trick they pull yet? Do you?

    It's waaaa waaaa waaaaa whenever their rich buddies are involved---they need the money!!!

    BUT, with any ordinary citizen, it's ---you are a bum, you deserve nothing.

    1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
      BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Um, call me crazy, but the boss or the business owner should have control.

      Since when did allowing the inmates to run the asylum become a practice worthy of praise?

      1. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So now workers are inmates, huh?

        Careful...your Swiss bank account, no loyalty to the America that made you rich, slip is showing.....

        1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
          BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          LMC, I think even you can see what I was getting at with my comment.

          Where does it become acceptable for the owner of any company to abdicate his authority to those who work for him?

          1. lovemychris profile image81
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Because there is a give and take relationship going on.

            My boss cannot do everything himself...that's why he NEEDS me.

            And I need him as well.
            But--here is the thing:

            My boss takes trips to Europe with his family and his kids go to expensive private schools...

            Meanwhile, my family is living week to week.

            It is an un-even equation. And without unions, we would be back to child-labor, 16 hr work days, and .50 cent an hour pay.

            ALL justified by the bosses, who think they do everything on their own.

            Hell--who paid for the roads, airplanes, telephones and  computer access that facilitates their business?

            We ALL did!

            Socialism for the fat cats.

            1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
              BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Um, he doesn't need you at all.  If I were your boss and read what you just wrote, you'd be out on your backside before you could say "wealth envy".

              There are plenty of others who are willing to work and recognize the employee-employer relationship for what it is....and NO, it is not equal.

              1. lovemychris profile image81
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Exactly!!!

                And if he gets them from another country, they will do it for MUCH cheaper than me...

                Can anyone say  "Downward mobility"?!

                Another one of their plans...
                To make America another pool of cheap labor for International Corporatism.

                We can join the other third-worlders, or become one while they take over.

                1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
                  BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  It is the right of the employer to conduct his business as he sees fit.  I am going to build my business with the primary goal of (get ready) increasing my own wealth. 

                  Jobs are offered and paid competitively based on what that job is worth.  I know this offends, but my employees will not be making more money than I do.  Sorry about that.

                  The employer-employee dynamic has never been equal, nor will it ever be so.

      2. TomC35 profile image61
        TomC35posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        So you mean control like when people had to work 80 hour days for 10 cents and hour with no insurance, no safety standards, etc?

        1. lovemychris profile image81
          lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Exactly. No rights for the little people, and only the little people pay taxes.

        2. BillyDRitchie profile image61
          BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Perhaps you can show me a single job where anyone i the US works for 80 hours for ten cents an hour.....talk about s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g....

    2. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "end 50 years of good life for working people!"

      Or at least end 50 years of good life for a privileged few union members (and union VIP's) feeding off the backs of the working people.

      1. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        I can definately agree that the union bosses and priviledged few have been just as greedy as the corporate honchos...

        But, fix that problem then, don't destroy the unions!

        We would not be America without Unions!
        We left Britian to gain equality...not disguise in-equality in another name.

        1. lady_love158 profile image61
          lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Actually we left Britian to worship freely.

          1. lovemychris profile image81
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Yeah, funny how we did that by decimating the people who were already here, and did not allow THEM to worship AT ALL.

            unless it was by OUR means.

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Yeah... if only we stayed naked in Africa hiding in the trees from predators and scavenging their kills we'd all be better off...

              1. lovemychris profile image81
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                There was quite a hightly civilized society here before we came....
                In fact, the Hunter-Gatherer societys were the most peaceful of all!

                War only came when ownership came into the picture.

                "This is MINE....and you can't have it!" That's what we brought here.

                We are not evolving, we are de-volving. imo

                1. lady_love158 profile image61
                  lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  So would you advocate us returning to such a society?

                2. Rafini profile image86
                  Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh, right, the American Indians didn't have a clue how to make or use weapons and didn't know what war paint was...

                  1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    It is impossible to disabuse people who live in a complex, psychotic state of their fantasies.  The "noble savage" fantasy is a crucial foundational one.  With out it the liberal has fewer tools with which to contradict the reality that Western Civilization, Religion and Philosophy has freed and fed more people than all other civilizations.

                    http://religionnewsblog.blogspot.com/20 … igion.html

                  2. lovemychris profile image81
                    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Study history, or anthropology....

                    Hunter/Gatherer/Goddess societies were not violent or aggressive.

          2. Jeff Berndt profile image91
            Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "Actually we left Britian to worship freely."
            If you're talking about the Plymouth colonists, you're utterly wrong. Most of them were living in Holland, where they had plenty of religious freedom. They left Holland because they were afraid that all that freedom might rub off on their kids and they (the kids) might grow up with all kinds of dangerous notions and maybe even join a different church. (gasp!)

            So they went to the New World where their kids would be safe from all those different kinds of Christians, and, God willing, maybe they'd (the Puritans) get to do a little oppressing of their own.

            But don't let little things like facts get in the way of your narrative.

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Narrative? I made a general statement regarding the beginning of colonization of the USA... YOU made the narrative!! lol
              In any case im sure none of it would have happened if not for unions!! Lol

              1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Opportunity is probably the single greatest reason people came to America.  Europe, especially Britain, was old, crowded and ossified. Almost all came for economic opportunities that were unavailable in the home country.  No one came to join a commune or a labor union.

                1. lovemychris profile image81
                  lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  No, but some gladly joined one when they found the same greedy, inhumane and horrible treatment going on here.

                  1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    And some had their heads beat in by union thugs; had their families threatened; their homes or cars vandalized; been shot at, spit on, slapped, libeled, bullied or strong armed.  Unions are not populated by angels quite to the contrary as currently being demonstrated in Wisconsin.  They are populated by people willing to close down schools, corrupt their students, lie to their employers and engage in all kinds of hateful speech.  I thought the new civility, suggested by Shining Handsome Obama, was to avoid hateful imagery and language.

                    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/0 … -hate.html

  3. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    BTW---ending unions is just as much a part of their plan as ending abortion.

    Back to 1870. No rights for anybody but the wealthy class.

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That would be even better for you.  Can you imagine?!?  We tend to do that which makes us happy.  You launch screeds and screams against everything and everyone with whom you disagree.  You would be soooooo happy!!!

      1. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Screeds and screams>

        I thought I was right calm! wink

        1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
          uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          non compos mentis

  4. uncorrectedvision profile image61
    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago

    The Wisconsin Democrats are not the party of NO.  That would require the courage to actually stick around and vote against something you oppose.  They tucked tail and ran(by the way indicating a passive aggressive pathology[surprise, surprise].  They have been running from the  fiscal train wreck that has been roaring at them for decades.

    This is the story for ever liberal democracy around the world.  Ireland, Italy. Portugal, Spain, Greece are all insolvent.  Great Britain is cutting its public employment ranks and seeking to unwind some of the tentacles of its vast national health system.  Germany is one of the few economies in the world growing after refusing to join the giant "bailout" foolishness. 

    Japan has been in the same hole for over ten years and we have jumped in with them.  Since their collapse they have passed bailouts, stimulus bills, inflated their currency, held interest rates at or near zero.  Japan, one of the most vibrant economies in the world thirty years ago, fell apart and soldiers on - much as we do- on the character of its people.  A character that is not indelibly printed in the genes but is produced by the national experience and strength of a culture.

    How long will our national character, what is left of it, last if we do not reverse the foolish liberal slide that has finally turned the juggernaut US economy into a foundering hulk.  It has been hollowed out since the 1930s with the foolish expectation that another man's treasure is mine if the government say so.  It is an affront to nature to claim the produce of another man's hands, back, muscles, intellect, creativity, risk, drive, effort, invention as our when we have done nothing to earn it.

    Children's stories are more pertinent to the real world than all the Democrat vomit and Marxist foolishness you will ever hear or read.

    http://www.childrenstory.info/childrens … edhen.html

    http://www.civprod.com/storylady/storie … Fables.htm

  5. I am DB Cooper profile image68
    I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago

    Let me see if I understand this situation:
    - The state's fiscal bureau projected a surplus for the 2011 year back in January.
    - Within the past few weeks, Governor Walker pushes through $140 million in new spending that was heavily opposed by the state Dems, turning the projected surplus into a deficit.
    - Governor Walker uses the projected deficit as leverage to bust unions with state employees.
    - Union members rally in the streets, state Dems walk out.
    - Keyboard warriors claim union heads are ripping off the working man, apparently including those sitting outside in support of the union.

  6. Jeff Berndt profile image91
    Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago

    It's a procedural trick, much like a filibuster. If they're not present, there's no quorum, therefore no vote can take place.

    Cowardly? Not really. Underhanded? Yeah, I'd have to say so. Plus, they're guilty of not showing up for work.


    They should go to work, vote against the bill, even filibuster it if they can stop a cloture vote, but above all, show up for work.

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      There may not be a filibuster power in the Wisconsin legislature but there is certainly some kind of procedural action they may take to slow down or even stop a bill.  What they are avoiding is a record of them voting because the state faces a giant budgetary short fall.  The governor was elected to do just what he is doing, seek a means of preserving as many jobs as possible while cutting the budget.  What he is asking for is not unreasonable but it runs afoul of the teacher union who is resistant to all changes regardless of how damaging that may be to their own members.

      Scott Walker 52.3%
      Tom Barrett 46.4%

      Barrack Obama 52.9%
      John McCain 45.7%

      Does .6% mark where the mandate begins?

    2. habee profile image89
      habeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      I agree with this! What would happen to most ordinary workers if we refused to show up at our jobs? We'd get fired!

  7. h.a.borcich profile image60
    h.a.borcichposted 6 years ago

    Wis voted in a governor who said he would be strong on budget restraint. Was this union thinking they were exempt? And the boys who ran for the border disgust me...They have a job to deal with it.
    It is a mess for sure. I live close to Madison and even our local schools are shut down by teacher absences.

  8. uncorrectedvision profile image61
    uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago

    Η Ελλάδα είναι αφερέγγυος. Αμερική είναι αφερέγγυος. Οι Έλληνες αντιτίθενται μια λύση. Αμερικανοί αντιτίθενται μια λύση. Έτσι, θα μεταφράσει τα πάντα με την ελληνική .. Ίσως τότε κάποιος θα ακούσει.

    1. Jeff Berndt profile image91
      Jeff Berndtposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It's all Greek to me.

    2. AnnCee profile image78
      AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It'd be nice, vision, but I wouldn't hold my breath.   Seeing the light ain't the Democrats strong suit.

      1. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Well now, I was just watching Rachel Maddow, and I'd say she HAS seen it!

        She figured you guys out. She's on to you.

        The reason you want to bust up the unions is because unions are the biggest contributors to the Democratic party! Get rid of unions, and you get rid of Democrats. Period.

        Because the Republicans have all of corporate America on their side. They don't even bother to hide it. Issssssa wrote to them and asked them what they wanted him  to do, for k's sake! Chamber of Commerce gave contributions 93% to Repubs...and Roves billonaires an Koch's billions etc etc...do the math. The ONLY big mone Dems have is unions.

        SO--bust them up, and you get rid of Dems forever.

        Which, as a matter of fact, Bachman -Turner -Overdrive came out and said earlier this year. She wants to get rid of all Dems in gvt....and my my my...so don't you, huh?

        And by golly--then we wouldn't have a democracy would we? Or a Republic? We'd have a Tyranny of the Right.

        BTW..she calls this bill a radical union busting bill!!! Go Rachel!

  9. Ralph Deeds profile image70
    Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago

    Governor Walker's Pretext

    Mr. Walker has decried the chaos, but it was entirely self-inflicted. His plan to undermine the unions, which would have no direct impact on the budget, would take away nearly all of their rights to negotiate.

    They would be barred from bargaining about anything except wages, and any pay increase they win would be limited by the consumer price index. Contracts would be limited to a year, and union dues could no longer be deducted from paychecks.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/opini … mp;emc=rss

    1. lovemychris profile image81
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      "barred from bargaining about anything except wages"

      There you go. Union-busting under the guise of "fiscal responsibility"

      They are about as fiscally responsible as a junkie on heroine! More More More More more...for ME!!!!!

      Here's their idea of fiscally responsible: Take from the pot of gvt--which goes to us all, and to give to ONE corporate CEO.

      1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
        BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Um, there is no "pot of govt".  Government has no money of its own...all it gets has been taken from those of us who work and produce....

        1. I am DB Cooper profile image68
          I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Governor Walker seems to think his government had plenty of money to spend, and 3 weeks ago he would have been right:
          http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/201 … arling.pdf

          I'd hate to question the motives of the governor, but it's really hard to explain how in a matter of weeks you can take a budget surplus and burn through it all with a massive government spending spree, then turn around and blame the unions and try to make it impossible for them to collectively bargain with the government.

          52% of Wisconsins voted for this guy, and he's brought the state government to its knees in a matter of weeks. Serves them right for electing a man who hasn't even graduated from college. Start electing strong leaders and you'll get strong leadership. Keep electing the most popular guy at the bar and you'll get a government that resembles a drunken bar brawl.

          1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
            BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "Keep electing the most popular guy at the bar and you'll get a government that resembles a drunken bar brawl."

            Sounds a lot like the clusterfornication that is the Obama administration.....

            1. AnnCee profile image78
              AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              That is becoming more and more evident as time goes on.  The monkeys are running the zoo. Is the nation stronger than these bozos?   I sure hope and pray we are.

            2. lovemychris profile image81
              lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Ummm, wasn't is Dubya you all wanted to have a beer with?

              1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
                BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                I don't drink...sorry about that.....

            3. I am DB Cooper profile image68
              I am DB Cooperposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              What exactly has gone wrong? Sure, we've still got too many troops overseas and Obama has failed to condemn continuous human rights violations both at Gitmo and abroad. Other than that, what major catastrophes have there been? The economy is recovering slowly, just as he said it would before the 2008 election. He said it would take years for the unemployment rate to come down, and it still looks like that's the case, although the numbers from last month are promising.

              Remember, the economic meltdown happened in the months before the 2008 election. There is about generally a long delay 12 to 24 months before economic decisions have their full effect on the market. It's clear that the recovery process is underway, as the stock markets are back near previous highs. Unemployment will lag behind that, because businesses don't go out and spend every new dollar in profit on a dollar's worth of wages. They rehire slower than they let people go, because they aren't sure if they can trust the stability of their recovering market.

              1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
                BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Um, Obama promised that unemployment wouldn't go above 8% if we passed his stimulus package.  Didn't work.

                He promised us shovel ready projects that didn't exist.

                Heck, the man couldn't even bring the Olympics to Chicago even though he devoted time in his schedule to do just that!

                1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
                  Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Without Obama's programs we'd now be in a depression.

                  1. lady_love158 profile image61
                    lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Lolololo!!! It was Bush that passed TARP! Still there is no way to prove that had that not been done we might be better off now. We simply avoided an economic reset that is coming!

  10. profile image0
    IRVING GERSONposted 6 years ago

    College students: Those of you who want to be school teachers, better first think twice before deciding.  Do you want to work for taxpayers who just want to pay you the same as they pay their babysetters?

    Taxpayers with children: Don't complain when the best college students no longer want to teach your children.

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      How much do teachers earn for their 180 days of work?  The average teacher in Wisconsin is paid?

      http://www.teacher-world.com/teacher-sa … onsin.html

      Besides, if things haven't changed since I was a graduate student and teaching teachers, they typically come from the bottom third of college students.  There are exceptions and that is no comment on decency or character but let's face it, the top students are in engineering, mathematics, physics, chemistry, pre-med and pre-law.

      1. profile image0
        IRVING GERSONposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Are you sure?  Maybe many of these students you mention were not accepted to teach in the public schools.  Many public school districts require that their school teachers get master degrees in order for them to continue to teach.  Which graduate school would accept those who were at the bottom third of their class?

        1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
          uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          I am more than sure about the state of graduate education programs as well. It took more effort to earn a BA in History than it took to earn an MS in secondary education.  I also proctored state teacher exams - I am singularly unimpressed with most teachers.  They are not sacred geniuses but ordinary people doing a job most of us would not want.

          1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
            Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            "I am singularly unimpressed with most teachers.  They are not sacred geniuses but ordinary people doing a job most of us would not want."

            And cutting their pay, pensions and health care, taking away their collective bargaining rights and eliminating their tenure will improve the quality of our teachers?

            1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
              uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Considering the continued slide in the performance of our students despite continuously increasing teacher pay one can only conclude, yes.  If teacher pay increases and student performance falls perhaps we should see it the reverse is true. Cut teacher's pay and see if student performance improves.

              Actually, maybe we should just keep doing what we are doing it has been such a great success.  The official word has come down from on high that all is well the recession is over, democracy is spreading through the Middle East and massive stimulus spending has worked.  Thank you, Jesus...oops wrong Savior.

          2. profile image0
            IRVING GERSONposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Then what you’re saying is that we should give the jobs of teaching to the same workers who pick the tomatoes.

            Putting the sarcasms aside, you maybe right to a point.

            I was not a school teacher, but I worked in public service for many years.  Like myself, I knew people who were very good at what they did.  Also, I knew those who occupied positions beyond their capabilities.  Once there the government was stuck with them.

            I quite sure it’s the same with teachers.  As the saying goes, throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the solution.  Unions need to compromise and so does the Wisconsin governor.

            1. lady_love158 profile image61
              lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

              http://wac.0873.edgecastcdn.net/800873/blog/wp-content/uploads/mccluskey-graph-217111.jpg

              Obviously more money doesn't guarantee results.

              1. profile image0
                IRVING GERSONposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Cato Institute! That Libertarian think tank!  You got to be kidding.

                1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                  uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Indictment by label?  How useful.

                  1. lady_love158 profile image61
                    lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    Lol! Yeah its just like this non response:

                    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?xl=xl_blaz … PUhVXImUhc

                  2. Ralph Deeds profile image70
                    Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    As you well know Charles Koch was a founder and benefactor of Cato. His brother David is currently a director of this nest of anti-government vipers. Cato's Chairman Emeritus, William Niskanen, came from the auto industry where he opposed every piece of motor vehicle regulation from seat belts to emission controls. Koch pays Cato to pump out economic screeds to benefit the oil industry and efforts to deal with climate change, etc. Just about anything Cato publishes is a lie including the "the's and and's.

                    By the way, one of the longest strikes in the history of collective bargainin occurred in Wisconsin at Kohler Company.

                    Speaking of union goons:

                    "But along with Herbert Kohler's paternalism went a steely sternness and a pride that bristled when his employees heeded outside labor organizers. When Kohler workers who had joined an A.F.L. union struck for recognition in 1934, Kohler hired 400 guards, set out to break the strike. On July 27, 1934, guards fired into a crowd outside the main gate, killing two men and wounding about 40 men, women and children. The strike failed."

                    Time Magazine

            2. uncorrectedvision profile image61
              uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              I have yet to cross a bridge that wasn't worth burning down.  The governor's position is a compromise, he should be seeking the termination of all those teachers who have called in sick yet appear on television at protests.

              1. lovemychris profile image81
                lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                Kind of like Reagan and the air traffic controllers huh?

                Well, how about this?

                Why doesn't that gvr take a cut in his pay, his bennies, his staff?

                How about each and every Republibagger do the same?

                How about they really get serious and end that stupid tax-give-away to the rich.

                Stop all this abortion business and get to work on JOBS.

                How about that?

                THEY are wasting MY money!

                1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
                  uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                  Government doesn't create jobs it transfers them at a deficit from the private to the public sector.  Cutting all tax payer funding to planned parenthood will save millions of your dollars.  Doesn't that make you happy?

                  1. Ralph Deeds profile image70
                    Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No. That means that they will be after me to up my contribution!

                  2. lovemychris profile image81
                    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

                    No, that's the stupidest thing they could do. I believe in stopping problems before they start...unlike your philosophy, which causes problems, then walks away.

                    BTW--YOU are the one moaning about spending money, not me. I'm just showing you how YOUR side spends a hell of a lotta money yourselves!

    2. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      We'll stop complaining when we rid the schools of unions!

  11. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Watch this! It's long, but worth it!!!!!


    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 817317115#

    1. uncorrectedvision profile image61
      uncorrectedvisionposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Some how I just cannot bring myself to care about something y-o-u recommend with the phrase - it is long....  Tedious and tiresome.

      1. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Just watch from 47 minutes to 59 minutes.....see what REALLY happens with privatization.

    2. Ralph Deeds profile image70
      Ralph Deedsposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      That's what's needed in Madison.

      1. lady_love158 profile image61
        lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

        What's needed in Madison is non union replacement teachers! I'll bet anything the state would have no problem filling those jobs while saving a fortune!

        1. lovemychris profile image81
          lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          There ya go...privitize everything..the Repub mantra, and our downfall.

          Privitize/De-Regulate, the book-ends of our destruction.



          For 90% of us, that is.....10% of us did real real well.

          Remind me what a more perfect union is supposed to be.....Yet More Feudalism???

          1. lady_love158 profile image61
            lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

            It's been well documented that tenure has proven bad for students, and now we see how public worker unions are bankrupting states as well as tax payers! Seems to me the free market is exactly what's needed for our education system.

            1. lovemychris profile image81
              lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Uh Huh...like the banks getting involved with student loans?   

              How's that debty-for-lifey thing working out fer ya?

      2. lovemychris profile image81
        lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

        Oh, it's just starting. It's a deliberate giving away of all the riches of a country to the very few at the top. And the fair-minded people of America will NOT stand for it!

        Then there's the Tea-P'ers.

        Ed Shultz is going to show you just who is behind this too calculated malarkey from the gvr in Wisconsin....Koch Bro's.

        Wouldn't you know?

        Tea-P'ers...you've been had. But it's not too late...join the REAL Patriots!! Those againt Corporate control of America.

        1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
          BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

          Giving away?  Is the concept of working hard and becoming successful really that foreign to you?

          Seems to me that working hard and providing a service or talent that people are interested in enough to purchase, and getting rich in the process, is more than fair.

          So you want us to watch Ed Schultz?  Because unlike Hannity or O'Reilly, we all just KNOW Ed isn't biased at all, right?

          1. lovemychris profile image81
            lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

            Like this:

            FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 18, 2011

            "Where Is Business' Share of the Sacrifice?
            Zero taxes. That's what all but a handful of Michigan businesses will pay under Rick Snyder's revised Michigan Business Tax. They'll get the benefit of $1.8 billion in tax cuts, paid for by increases on senior citizens and the poorest working people in the state. And they'll sacrifice nothing.

            That's because they're the "job providers." Except we don't know that they actually will provide any more jobs. Nationally, corporations have had record profits and yet aren't hiring people, preferring to sit on piles of cash."

            http://livcodemocrats.blogspot.com/2011 … ifice.html

            These same people also outsourced all the goods jobs, and keep their money in off-shore accounts...to avoid paying US taxes!!  GIVE-AWAY!

            Russssshhhhhh makes what, 59 mil? You say it's a crime to make him pay 2mil more in taxes? I say it's a crime for him NOT to!
            Because someone will have to make up the slack...you know--those 2 wars, prescription drug benefit and tax-cuts..they all cost money.
            Who will pay? Not the richest of the rich......

            1. BillyDRitchie profile image61
              BillyDRitchieposted 6 years ago in reply to this

              Businesses are not hiring, and rightfully so, because they are concerned about their tax burden, all the red tape that would be involved with meeting their obligations to ObamaCare, etc.

              There is a reason companies do it this way, because the US tax system is so oppressive.

  12. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011 … rights.php

    "more than half of the new shortfall comes from three of Walker's initiatives:

    •$25 million for an economic development fund for job creation, which still holds $73 million because of anemic job growth.

    •$48 million for private health savings accounts -- a perennial Republican favorite.


    •$67 million for a tax incentive plan that benefits employers, but at levels too low to spur hiring."



    Deficit creation as a way to attack the right to collectively bargain?

    There's a lot of that going around....

  13. habee profile image89
    habeeposted 6 years ago

    I don't get it. We don't have real teachers' unions around here, yet our teachers' salaries are higher than those in WI. We also get great benefits!

    http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state

    1. Doug Hughes profile image60
      Doug Hughesposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Interesting. I would like to know how they negotiate salaries, benefits and raises, if not through collective bargaining.

  14. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Instead of starting with the cutting of teacher pay and the removal of their right to collectively bargain....which I consider an inalienable right...

    Perhaps we should examine the vast amounts of wealth that publishing and other companies that profit from public eduction funding...

    True, funding has gone up, but schools, as with the military, have become a way for private enterprise to suck the taxpayer teet....

    Too many new editions....at increasingly higher prices...  Too much focus on getting more and more technology into the classroom.....

    San Fernando Middle School, which I attended way back when, was recently in danger of being taken over by the nonprofit arm of a private corporation from ...I think it was Idaho...I have forgotten (it has been three years)..

    After researching both, it ended up that this private corporation makes white boards as well as all kinds of different software and other products geared towards schools...

    Not only would they be able to transfer their products into the nonprofit...writing it all off?...but their consultants, who would be required to keep everything up/running, and current, cost 600,000 dollars a year each..


    Instead of all that funding reaching the students, it is syphoned off to private business.... 

    It is not enough to cut funding......make the cuts where they are the most needed....

  15. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    As a history major, I took classes in women's studies, Islamic studies, Chicano/a studies, along with the other typical courses (U.S./European history).

    It pays to have a broad perspective, and these classes, at least those I attended, serve a great purpose...

    Someone might not like what they are hearing....but history, as it has been constructed over time, selects to highlight certain areas, while intentionally ignoring others....

    It is important to explore where most "history" selects not to look....

    1. lady_love158 profile image61
      lady_love158posted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Your perspective is a lot of things but I wouldn't describe it as "broad".

    2. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      It is important to explore where most "history" selects not to look


      gotta agree with you there!

  16. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    Well, of course:

    "Citing a $137 million budget deficit, Walker announced a plan last week which would essentially take away the public union's collective bargaining rights and slash benefits for state employees. Meanwhile, the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981 and, according to Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations pay no taxes."

    Let me repeat that:

    "Meanwhile, the share of corporate tax revenue funding the state government has fallen by half since 1981 and, according to Wisconsin Department of Revenue, two-thirds of corporations pay no taxes."

    ladies and gentlmen--Herein lies the problem.

  17. lovemychris profile image81
    lovemychrisposted 6 years ago

    "This has got the feel of Ludlow redux in the on deck circle. Transparently, the reason for America’s bankruptcy can be laid at the feet of the bankers and corporations. You’ll see the evidence there, crumpled together with The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. Both of which now look like someone wiped themselves with them."--Les Visible

  18. knolyourself profile image59
    knolyourselfposted 6 years ago

    "Koch Industries is the largest privately owned firm in the United States, and possibly in the world,... "Koch Industries denies funding tea parties, but official filings say otherwise"

  19. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Why are workers being compared to convicts, inmates, or prisoners of any type?

    What nonsense is this?

    Without workers, there would be no business, no profit...  Leave the produce unplanted and unpicked....your agribusiness will fail...

    Workers provide the essential aspect to business.....

    If this is the type of mentality that governs corporate-labor relations, then it is obvious that laborers in this nation, and those around the world need union and other organized operations...

    What kind of b.s. superiority complex is created in your analogy sir.....  Is that really how you think?

    1. lovemychris profile image81
      lovemychrisposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Now Beck is calling them the heralders of the anti-Christ!!!!!

  20. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Lady,

    It's too bad more of us aren't farmers... 

    There is no culture without agriculture.....

    Instead of increased spending on the 5th, 6th...20th edition of Algebra books (per se), and instead of blacktopping and "sterilizing" the campus from contact with the earth...time should be devoted to reintegrating them with cultivating life..

    My sister teaches an integrate 2nd/3rd grade class in the Bay Area..  On one of my visits we went to her school...  If hubpages supported bitmap. images I would post them... There were no trees...nothing to provide shade of any kind...no dirt..

    A completely blacktopped surface with a few basketball and volleyball poles.

    There is a lot that can be done to both change the culture of many school districts and philosophies while saving money without taking away collective bargaining rights, by going after teachers, and making unions out to be un-American...

    For you strawberry lovers out there, I also urge you to see the conditions that workers face on the plantations in California...where most of them originate...

    You will see the reality behind those who attack worker organization...

    1. Rafini profile image86
      Rafiniposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      Not all schools are like the one your sister teaches at.  Many schools in Madison have their very own 'mini arboretum' besides the trees that can be found throughout the school grounds. 

      As for updated editions of schoolbooks - I've often wondered on the necessity of an updated book every other year or so.  I mean, really, does Algebra change that much?

    2. AnnCee profile image78
      AnnCeeposted 6 years ago in reply to this

      My neighbors, both brought to Florida from Mexico as children, picked produce when they were young.  Angelina took care of her four younger siblings from the time she was eleven years old.  Manuel was in trouble a lot because he didn't like it here and wanted to go back home.  He got his act together because of a good high school teacher and his desire to play soccer.  He is now a military officer.  He has met the past two presidents and several governors because he has done so well in school and in his career.  Angelina keeps a spotless and lovely home and is a strict and loving wife and mother.  My family has met both of their families and we have become like family with these people.   They are Republicans and they have never had any help aside from Manuel's scholarships.

      Angelina remembers helping her grandmother daub her stick hut with manure which apparently makes a good waterproof coating.  Manuel remembers getting up early and riding a horse to a dairy farm to milk cows and bring the milk to the village to sell.  Their own children work side by side with them in the yard and in the house.

      It is a different culture and a very admirable one.   What looks like torture and poverty to do-gooder liberals is often simply a culture that is different from ours.  These people are fortunate they didn't tie themselves into the "welfare" system to be destroyed like so many.

  21. AnnCee profile image78
    AnnCeeposted 6 years ago

    This is what Democrat Socialism does to states.  They discourage business and lose jobs.   They lose revenue.  They take too much and give back crap.  Are the lives of the people Democrats "help" better?  Look at what they have done to the black family.

    Black Families, Black Men

    How Democrat Socialist Programs have DESTROYED the Black Family




    Black Families, Black Men

    Carey Roberts

    Sounding like a born-again social conservative, president Lyndon B. Johnson stepped to the podium and made this stirring pronouncement: When the family collapses, it is the children that are usually damaged. When it happens on a massive scale, the community itself is crippled.

    And with his usual modesty, LBJ later hailed that 1965 Howard University commencement address as his greatest civil rights speech.

    A few months later the Moynihan Report came out. Despite its commonsense focus on strengthening the Black family, civil rights leaders raised a stink that Mr. Moynihan was trying to blame the victim. Floyd McKissick, director of the Congress of Racial Equality, insisted, It's the damn system that needs changing.

    So the architects of the Great Society not only set out to ignore the formative role of the Black family they plotted to make things worse.

    They instituted programs with men-stay-away names like Women, Infants, and Children. They enacted Medicaid in 1965 that imposed eligibility tests slighting non-custodial parents (read fathers).

    Then the social do-gooders delivered the knock-out blow: the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program. AFDC had its infamous man-out-of-the-house rule that withheld benefits if the primary breadwinner (again, read father) resided in the house.

    Sociologist Andrew Billingsley has traced the historical lifeline of the Black family. In 1890 the number of intact Black families with fathers and mothers at home was 80%. Over the next seven decades through 1960, that figure held remarkably constant.

    But once the Great Society programs were put in place, the African-American family went into a tailspin.

    When the number-crunchers tallied up the results from the 1970 decennial census, they couldn't believe their eyes  the number of intact Black families had fallen to 64%.

    For the next 20 years two-parent families continued their free-fall, reaching a rock-bottom 38% in 1990. And most of the remaining intact families were concentrated in the Black middle class. In the inner city, the traditional Black family had essentially ceased to exist.


    So forced to compete with a government welfare program, poor Black men had suddenly found themselves persona non grata in their own homes. Like an unwelcome houseguest, Uncle Sam had moved in, unpacked his bags, and made himself a surrogate husband.

    What two World Wars and the Great Depression were unable to do, the Great Society accomplished in only 25 years.

    With the Black family now in shambles, no amount of federal money could fix the problem. In 1965, 21% of all American children under the age of 18 lived in poverty. Thirty years and billions of welfare dollars later, the number of American children living in poverty was 21%.


    Of course the Leftists refuse to admit the obvious failures of the Great Society. A[s] is their habit, they tell the exact opposite of the truth.

    Robert Hill of the Urban League once spun this whopper: Research studies have revealed that many one-parent families are more intact or cohesive than many two-parent families. Excuse me Mr. Hill, when millions of poor teenage girls are having out-of-wedlock births, how does that fit into your concept of intact and cohesive?

    Likewise, feminist scholars celebrated the ascendancy of the female-headed household. Believing the nuclear family is the bastion of male privilege, feminist Toni Morrison lionized the strong black woman who was superior in terms of [her] ability to function healthily in the world.

    But there's a deeper reason for the Leftist cover-up.

    Karl Marx argued that economic realities determine social conditions. According to that formulation, if you pump money into a community, social indicators will automatically improve. But the Great Society proved the opposite squander money on programs that weaken social structures, and life becomes unbearably squalid.

    Viewing the plight of the once-proud Black family, Kay Hymowitz recently mused in the City Journal,  The literature was so evasive, so implausible, so far removed from what was really unfolding in the ghetto, that if you didn't know better, you might conclude that people actually wanted to keep the black family separate and unequal.? [url]http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_3_black_family.html[url]When I reflect on the vestiges of the American Black family, the disenfranchisement of its men, and the despair of its children, I admit to feeling an abiding sense of betrayal actually outrage is a better word.

    They promised us the Great Society.









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    Published on: 2006-03-17 (890 reads)

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  22. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    "Along with concerns about tax increases, the 70 percent of state voters who do not have school-age children are balking more about footing the bill for public education, said Mary Metz, chairwoman of the department of educational policy studies at UW-Madison."

    http://host.madison.com/mobile/article_ … e77cf.html


    In other words...

    "This is our society, and these are going to be the future beneficiaries of this society, but we aren't interested in educating them".

    I am sure that 70% who do not have kids in school are still dependent on systems, services, products, and societies that are equally dependent on having a well educated and empowered population...

    Then again, using that analogy of "the assylum inmates running the ward", prisons are big business...

  23. mikelong profile image83
    mikelongposted 6 years ago

    Google search "California strawberry workers"....go from there...

    This is the reality....

    I think you should try out living in an abandoned truck trailer, with no water, no bathrooms...living next to pesticides...this is the reality..

    Many live literally in little holes carved into the side's of hills.....or living in cardboard boxes..

    I can share plenty of links if you wish....

    I shouldn't have to, since this information is at your fingertips..

 
working