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Obama's Green Energy Initiative

  1. tobey100 profile image62
    tobey100posted 5 years ago

    Solyndra Inc. - Files for bankruptcy
    Evergreen Solar - Files for bankruptcy
    SpectraWatt Inc. - Files for bankruptcy
    Robbinsville Solar - Files for bankruptcy
    Clean Burn Fuels LLC - Files for bankruptcy

    Federal guaranteed loans, Federal subsidies, Federal tax exemptions, FAILURE.  Over a trillion down the drain.  Tell me what a good job the man's doing.  $100 says is next JOBS speech is going to ask for more of the same.  Any takers?

    1. 0
      Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      I heard about this on the radio this morning. Solyndra Inc. alone got $535,000,000 then went Chapter 11. Just one more of many failures for the Obama Administration.

      And, no, I'm not taking that bet. His speech is just going to be more of the same.

      Come on January 20, 2013!!!! Only 506 days away!!!

    2. John Holden profile image60
      John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      All Obama's fault!
      No suggestion of any wrong doing by the companies?

      Ever heard of De Lorean cars?

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        Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        If everything that happened during the Bush presidency was Bush's fault, wouldn't it stand it reason that all that's happened during Obama's is Obama's fault?

        1. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          True, but I've never claimed that.

          1. 0
            Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I understand that as you're one of the few "calmer heads" here of HP but others on here have been fanatical about it with Bush. I'd be interested to see what they have to say and if a double standard will rear its ugly head.

      2. tobey100 profile image62
        tobey100posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Please.  DeLorean got fed bucks to build his car?  Free market dude.  He croaked cause no body wanted the car.  There's no market for solar yet.  Someday but this ain't the day.  Let the market handle it.  Government cannot and will not ever create business or jobs.

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          Nick Lucasposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          tobey....thank you for stating that.....the gov cant create jobs but they can destroy the market that does as they are

        2. John Holden profile image60
          John Holdenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          No, he didn't get fed bucks to build his car, he got British pounds and never actually built a car for all the advance orders he had.

          Basically, he robbed us blind.

      3. kerryg profile image88
        kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Has nothing to do with the fact that the Chinese are subsidizing their solar sector to the tune of $30 billion a year, either. US solar subsidies? Less than $1 billion a year.

        The Chinese subsidies will be good for the planet in the long run, but not good for the future of the US economy at all. We are being left in the dust through our own short-sightedness.

    3. lady_love158 profile image59
      lady_love158posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      But... but... these were... "investments"! I guess now we know why Obama became a professor... those who can, do, and those who can't, teach! Yes we can!! Lol!

    4. MikeNV profile image74
      MikeNVposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Tune in Sept 8th as Obama tells Congress how he is going to kickstart the jobs market.

      And to those who want to continue to ride the Obama Bus straight into economic hell.


    5. sean kinn profile image77
      sean kinnposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      The part that's hard to figure out is why they can't see the failures of communism/socialism right before their eyes (starting with starving people in North Korea). For some strange reason, they think they're so smart that whatever version they've dreamed up of the same thing - will work this time - when democracy and capitalism have been proven to work time and time again. Maybe they're all just a bunch of sociopaths?

  2. Mighty Mom profile image92
    Mighty Momposted 5 years ago

    Survival of the fittest applies to solar companies, too.

    1. tobey100 profile image62
      tobey100posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Dang, I should have said it that way!!!!  Amen.

    2. 0
      Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      And I do believe if my company had been given $535 MILLION by the government and it then went belly up, I'd be expecting the FBI and the IRS to come a knocking. Would you like to take a bet on whether or not that will happen, MM?

  3. tobey100 profile image62
    tobey100posted 5 years ago

    Funny how the liberal believe's in survival of the fitness when it comes to evolution but not when it comes to commerce.  The free market worked very well even with all its ups and downs.

  4. Neil Sperling profile image88
    Neil Sperlingposted 5 years ago

    These facts are more accurate for Green Energy waste than they are for Obama specific.

    How crazy we have become chasing green energy B.S. before the technology has been improved. The cost to upgrade scrubbers in a coal generating power plant eliminating waste close to 98% and the upgrades are near free compared to solar and wind generation..... costs about 6 cents a kilowatt to generate power with coal.... about 40 cents a kilowatt with wind and even higher with solar..... and yet we dump buckets into green energy crap and Nuclear before they has been perfected.

    Sheep annoy cattle farmers and I both.

  5. livelonger profile image91
    livelongerposted 5 years ago

    Saw the same post on AndrewSullivan.com, kerryg. And agreed. smile

    1. kerryg profile image88
      kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hadn't actually seen the same post, but thanks for the additional stats! smile

      For all the nattering these guys are doing about the "free market," they're conveniently ignoring the fact that the US government has been subsidizing oil and gas since 1916, and continues to provide tens of billions of dollars annually in subsidies, incentives, tax breaks, and other forms of financial assistance to fossil fuel companies - many times what we spend on renewable subsidies.

      The loan guarantee for Solyndra was a mistake, but investing in renewables as a whole is anything but. By continuing to tie ourselves to polluting, non-renewable sources of energy while allowing China to outpace us so dramatically in the race towards clean, renewable energy independence, we're not just betting on the wrong horse, we're betting on the lame one. tongue

  6. Heathermom profile image60
    Heathermomposted 5 years ago

    These companies got their incentives when the cost was $3.50/kw of energy. Thanks to Chinese energy companies - bankrolled by Chinese govt - the cost is approx $1.40/kw today.
    Numbers just don't add anymore and hence these companies have no choice but to fold up.

    1. CHRIS57 profile image60
      CHRIS57posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Major flaw in the green policy in the US is to subsidise technology and not energy. This is different in Europe.

      Free market electricity should have production cost around $0,10/kW. While photovoltaic ist still well above $1/kW, wind power should come close to $0,20/kW.

      Electricity is still closely linked to nuclear and fossile energy production.   With leverage 2 on wind power and more than 10 on solar power, there is some way to go.

      But BRIC countries are increasing their demand for energy and peak oil is not in the far future, so "conventional" energy cost will rise. Gas prices will not stop at 4 USD/gallon. At the same time production cost for green energy will go down. The gap closes from both sides.

      Until there is a break even, a lot of subsidies still have to be payed. But i have the impression break even and subsidies zero will happen within the next 10 years. 

      So let me do a little calculation (admittedly from a pure European/German standpoint): 10 years of subsidies for green energy in Germany with 15 billion USD/year, that makes 150 Billion USD in total (prooven figures). German economy is roughly 25-30% of the US economy. So that  would be 500 to 600 Billion USD in 10 years in US terms.

      You may say that is a whole lot of money. - Yes it is. But then: for that money you get real windmills, real solar panels,real work, real jobs... How much was created with 1000 Billion USD of quantitive easing? Nothing. See where i am pointing at?

      Invest 500 Million into one or more solar panel companies? Just a waste of money. You canĀ“t extinguish a large fire by spitting at it, you have to use gallons of water.

      1. kerryg profile image88
        kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        From what I've heard, that's been China's policy as well. They're betting on proven solar technologies and working on streamlining and improving the manufacturing process and getting as many panels in place as they can, while the US is focusing on innovation.

        Obviously, some R&D is necessary - and there are some very promising technologies coming down the pipe in both wind and solar - but as an investment strategy it's much riskier and I agree that the US would be better served by putting more into getting proven technologies into more widespread use. No offense to Germany, but we've got much better wind and solar resources than you (not to mention far more land to deploy them on - you're barely bigger than Montana, and half the size of Texas), and it's absurd that until recently you outpaced us on both solar and wind energy generation, and still outpace us on solar.

  7. Writer David profile image77
    Writer Davidposted 5 years ago

    If he were a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, he would have been fired a long time ago.  But, he's never held a real job in his life, has he?

    1. 0
      Longhunterposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      You forgot he was a COMMUNITY ORGANIZER. Can someone tell me what the hell a Community Organizer is and does?

  8. SparklingJewel profile image67
    SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago

    The two-and-a-half-year Keynesian experiment of flooding the economy with taxpayer dollars has failed, yet the President and his union allies continue to peddle the myth that the only way to save the economy is to spend more. There's another way to go: freeing America's small businesses from the day-to-day shackles of existing over-regulation, freeing families and entrepreneurs of the threat of higher taxes, and cutting spending to eliminate the constraining fear of America's debt crisis. Zero job growth does not have to be America's reality, but changing course will mean ditching the dream that more government spending will save the day.

    same post as elsewhere..makes sense

    oh, and about the green energy...did anyone honestly do their basic market research as all businesses need to do, to determine what was needed to make it work within the current situation? it's not that its not a good idea there are just many other players that are only interested in their current pocketbooks...in stead of the planning for the future

  9. Hugh Williamson profile image88
    Hugh Williamsonposted 5 years ago

    We Americans like immediate answers -- the result is that we don't always look far enough down the road when making decisions, and solar energy is a good example.

    Advances in solar technology are now coming regularly. The cost is still high but if we ignore it until it's dirt cheap (or until oil skyrockets again) we will be the losers.

    The Chinese and others recognize solar potential and are moving full speed ahead. There will come a time when whoever controls the alternative energy  industry will hold the economies of the rest in the palm of their hand. 

    The old days are gone and not coming back -- no matter who's in the White House. We need permanent jobs and new technologies, and that comes at a cost.

    We now compete with countries whose gov'ts cover health care costs and subsidize the hunt new technologies (like solar). GM, pre bankruptcy, had to add $2,000 to the price of each car to cover healthcare and benefits. Toyota added 0. Universal health care can help us out here.

    More deregulation? Deregulation yielded obscene profits for big companies while they moved our jobs overseas. They successfully lobbied for tax loopholes so they now pay little or no taxes.

    The uber rich obviously haven't used their bonanza to create jobs or we'd have more of them. They've just been trading our future economic independence for next quarter's dividend.

    "Business?" -- don't get business confused with gaming the economy. I've been in business -- it's damn hard work and risky, but real businesses provide real jobs and produce something besides paper profits.

    Let's promote real business and industry.

    1. kerryg profile image88
      kerrygposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Hear, hear!

    2. SparklingJewel profile image67
      SparklingJewelposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      real business...a definition is in order

      I think we agree what real business means.  to me real business means the Golden Rule, treat others as you would like to be treated, except when you like being mistreated smile

      yes, get rid of some of the rules/laws that profit only the ruling class peoples and not the "little people" that actually do their work for them in America and steal it from the poor people in other countries with low wages.

      The Golden  Rule for business is about scratching each others backs, working hard and being considerate of many factors from bosses to employees, planning for the future being only one.
      what the ruling class is not looking at is to their own demise either way. the working class will rebel or will be killed of...how does that benefit the ruling class, they are pretty damn stupid except when the people continue to grovel and stand up and speak against laws out of line or they just need to walk away from such.