Oil spill result of corporate negligence and a lack of over sight.

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   Stump Parrishposted 13 years ago

   How do we make sure this doesn't happen again you ask? Deregulate further and open more of the gulf to drilling. That could only makes sense to those in the oil companies back pockets.

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      Shinkickerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It happened before, apparently, acording to this great Rachel Maddow clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHmhxpQEGPo

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         Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It's gonna keep happening until corporations are forced to place the environment and the well being of American citizens. Basically we need to convince our elected officials to stand up to those who keep them in office and demand that they admit that this,  "it is wrong to kill thousands of their customers children simply because it cost an extra 10 cents a unit not to buy lead based paint from china for the toys they make.
         
         I fail to understand how some feel the only way to do this is deregulation. I am also getting tired of the new mantra that plays any time the democrats attempt to improve anything about this country. Cant do it, it will make government bigger and give them more control over the profits of industry. Society deserves to feel that those making a profit supplying them with anything, aren't secreting killing them off to save a buck. These same people scream real load when you alk about reducing the power of the DEA. Making marijuana legal would eliminate thousands of government jobs and reduce the expenditures for military grade hard ware we pay for. The Repubs dont seem concerned about saving money when it's one of their get rich quick and for ever schemes. War profiteering is acceptable when it's a war on a medicinal plant. The reason I bring up marijuana and it's cousin Hemp is that big oil is one of the backers of the war on both. Hemp represents an alternative fuel that if allowed to gain acceptance would threaten oil profits. It would also replace fossil fuel use in the manufacture of plastics. That the resulting plastics are bio degradable is unimportant to the oil companies. They are encouraged to and rewarded for keeping America from becoming a better place to live.
         
         This type of disregard for humanity will continue as long as Americans remain as they were in the 50's, passive and scared. We need the 60's and 70's to make a reappearance. Time for another generation to get off their butts and save the country from the old farts.

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   Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago

   well that's nonsense.
   
   Did it ever occur to you to think about WHY the companies were drilling in the hardest to reach/secure areas of the US?
   
   I bet you NEVER would have guessed that it was because of government incentives to drill there!
   
   That's right! You're precious government gave YOUR TAX DOLLARS to companies who were willing to drill in the hardest to salvage areas of the ocean shelf!
   
   Regulation is actually what CAUSED the spill.

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      Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Evan - you got your cause mixed up with your effect. The 'incentives' were the idea of big oil - who wanted to drill, but wanted somebody else to pick up the tab. Or you can show me where government twisted BPs arm to bid for the lease? Oil money in the right GOP pockets is where oil subsides came from.
      
      BTW, Obama has called for an end to oil company subsidies in the 2011 budget. Watch how the House republicans line up to protect big oil.
      
      Electric cars are the rage this year. GM has the volt, but a decade ago, GM had a winner called the EV-1. One reason the car was good was a battery which gave the EV-1 a hundred-mile range on a charge. Big oil (with help from Bush) killed the EV-1.  The GM research subsidiary that produced the battery and held the patent on the battery was sold to big oil, and the battery became unavailable at any price.
      
      I know you won't get it, but others will. Mega-corporations can and will CRUSH innovation and demolish the free market unless a government friendly to innovation will protect companies trying to solve problems. Liberals are not out to prevent free-enterprise innovation - we are trying to make it POSSIBLE.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The companies wanted other people to pick up the tab?
         
         Well, who forced us all to pay the tab?
         
         That's right, the government.

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            china manposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            AND if government was not there they would just do it without any need to consult, or any fear of regulation AT ALL.  But then that would not be an issue to you because you would be too busy doing serf stuff for your local lord, and anyway you wouldn't know about it because you would be illiterate without the education forced on you by government.

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               Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I  knew he wouldn't get it. Take government out of the equation and the oil companies would take over. They twisted government to their purposes before, but now the US is subsidising the development of auto battery innovation and alternative energy.
               
               Evan can always make a case for the evil gov't can do in partnership with business - because it's true. But when gov't is in partnership with the people then progress can happen that could NEVER happen when business is the only force in play.

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                  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Why would the "evil" companies drill in the HARDEST areas first?
                  
                  That makes NO sense.
                  
                  Also, your argument ignores the fact that without government, the gulf area would have been privately owned.

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               Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               there are MANY more safe locations in this country to drill.
               
               It is completely foolish to say that without government we'd be drilling in the hardest to access locations FIRST, and THEN the easy to drill locations.
               
               Government gave them incentives to drill in bad areas. Deal with it.

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                  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Evan, It's probably easier for big oil to drill in your backyard. You got any problems with that.

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                  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Evan - your two statements are that there are safer places to drill and gov't made big oil drill in deep water. Fact check.
                  
                  Ever hear of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge? Big Oil has been trying to get leases to do underwater drilling north of the Arctic Circle. Democrats and some republicans won't allow what has the potential to be a HUGE eco-disaster.
                  
                  My point is that Big Oil wants to drill wherever there's big deposits. Drilling in the most Northern Alaska is a BAD idea. Even Congress is opposed. So where do you get the idea there is easy, safe oil that the oil companies can't have?

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                     Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     BP finally made it. They signed an agreement with Russia to drill in the artic circle. Who wants to bet that Halliburton will be doing another highquality cement job real soon?

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                  Neil Sperlingposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Evan - you don't know squat about the oil industry. Who pushed for the tax incentives to drill???? the oil companies themselves... Why? Because there are known oil deposits that are HUGE!
                  
                  Who picks up the tab.... we do at the pumps..... Also -  We pay the taxes the for the rich as well..... they add the tax to the cost of products we buy. Oh the poor rich guys LOL

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                  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  If industrial hemp were legalized and the landmass that our government currently pays rich land owners not to farm were planted in hemp. We wouldn't need to drill anywhere. If the oil companies hadn't conspired with Dubya to kill the electric car in 2001, we would have drastically reduced the need for oil. Both scenerio's involve lower oil company profits and the quo retains it's status. I thought the basic principle behind capitalism was that if you created a superior product you would make money. No the new and improved theory is that if you get rich enough you can shut down every product that threatens you antiquaited and dangerous product  regardless of the risk to your clients and customers.

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            I am DB Cooperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree that government shouldn't be giving subsidies to oil companies, but what's really interesting is which politicians supported these subsidies and were most connected to oil industry lobbyists. It's a lot of the same men who claim they want smaller government.
            
            I don't think you can connect the spill to government regulations, because the politicians who favored greater regulations were also generally against subsidizing offshore oil drilling. The only connection between those who favored greater regulations and those who favored subsidies is that they all work for the government.

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               lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               This was due to Cheney and his special interst oil govt. He made energy policy with big oil, remember? In private, is a secret meeting.
               All the regulatory agencies looked the other way, and partied or watched porn! That was the attitude of the Federal Gvt under Bush.
               Oil can do no wrong. And Do whatever the hell you want.
               
               The fact that it happened unber Obama is no accident either, imo. LOOK who was party to the crime.....Haliburton! Republicorp leader Supreme.
               
               Now The Obama admnistration has sued BP, and collected money for the damages....but what of Haliburton? And Oceana(?), the other company involved?
               
               Just read stories on it...stories from people who were there. Or who worked for the agencies in charge of policing this stuff......they were AWOL...by design!

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         lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Exactly right.
         
         "Liberal" innovation HAS been crushed by big oil....from years and years back.
         After all, if you OWN the gvt...you can pretty much do what you want!
         
         "BTW, Obama has called for an end to oil company subsidies in the 2011 budget. Watch how the House republicans line up to protect big oil."
         
         God, I'm lovin' this Obama!!!
         
         From my local blog:
         
         "Are taxpayers subsidizing the political activities of the fossil-fuel industry and rich yachtsmen through tax-exempt organizations?
         
         Yes. Consider the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, created to fight the Cape Wind wind-turbine project, in Nantucket Sound.
         
         The Alliance's leader and chief paymaster is William Koch, the Osterville summer resident who inherited vast oil, coal, coke and natural-gas interests from his father and now runs Oxbow Group. (His brothers, Charles and David, run Koch Industries.)"
         --Name sound familiar?
         
         They used tv and radio with ads bashing pro-wind candidate Patrick, and supporting pro-oil Baker. That's a no-no since they are tax-exempt. Much like so many churches told their flocks  to vote for McCain, or else. BIG No-No.
         
         But who's looking, that Mexican just crossed the border!!
         Bait and switch baby---bait and switch!

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            Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            can you give me a source on the "obama will try to  quit subsidies for oil companies"? I'd like to read more.

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               lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               here's one:
               
               "Now, Obama's proposing that $36 billion worth of those subsidies for oil and $2.3 billion for coal (both get $70 billion a year in total) get stripped from the budget--which would be great. Too bad special interests will almost certainly keep this from happening."
               
               ---"Obama Seeks to Cut $38 Billion Coal & Oil Subsidies Out of Budget"
               by Brian Merchant, Brooklyn, New York  on 02. 2.10
               BUSINESS & POLITICS
               
               here's another:
               
               "Both Obama and McCain have proposed plans that eliminate tax loopholes for oil and gas companies, according to the Associated Press.
               Source: FactCheck.org on 2008 first presidential debate-Boston Globe Sep 26, 2008"--this one you can look up if you wish....I don't!

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                  Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Thanks for the posts. ... but they're all at least a year old...
                  
                  I only have a few problems with them:
                  
                  "Too bad special interests will almost certainly keep this from happening"
                  
                  this isn't true. Government is the one who holds the power, and just because a young child cries for some candy, the parents shouldn't give it to him.

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                     Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Evan, who controls the government? please dont try and tell me that the people do. We have private prisons for profit writing the laws that keep them supplied with customers that they bill the government to house. I would venture to guess that every large industry is in the position to write the laws that they have to obey. We have seen a rise in deaths and injuries to children from shoddy and dangerous tous. Bush put a top toy manufacturer in charge of overseeing the toy industry. Lets deregulate this industry a little further and when it's your grandchild that dies I dont want to hear one complaint from you, OK?

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                        Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        should have read dangerous toys.

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                        Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        I have NEVER argued that the people own government. Nor have I ever encouraged regulation.
                        
                        But when you come in here and say:
                        
                        "politicians keep giving billions of dollars that they took out of my wallet under the threat of jail time....
                        
                        ... I hate companies"
                        
                        Then you're obviously off your rocker.
                        
                        The problem is government.

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                           Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Evan, show me where I said "I hate companies" or where I connected money out of your wallet and jail time. Now You are entirely correct that I am off my rocker. I am standing up trying to be heard and the squeak of my rocker was drowning out my message.
                           You remind me of my brother that's proud to call himself a neocon. He believes that the only way to solve the problems of this country is thru worship of corporate profits. Complete deregulation of industry is our only chance for survival. Do you buy into this line of insanity? Reducing the level of government regulations on the financial industry sure helped this country didn't it? The Repubs are complaining that regulations on indusrties cost comanies profits and they are correct in this. Do you feel that corporate America should be permitted to dump all their combined hazardous waste in our rivers? Hey it would be cheaper than disposing of it properly and this would generate a bigger dividend check for stock holders, right? No corporation in this country will be able to find cheaper labor than they do in under-developed countries. Do you feel they should be permitted to ship any and all jobs overseas in the name of profits? Sure sounds like it when you say regulations are the problem with our economy.

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                              Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Every single thing you've said translates to:
                              
                              "government screwed up, and thus companies are evil and need to be regulated".
                              
                              You sound like a psychologist saying "the parents keep rewarding the bad behavior of a child... BAD CHILD!"
                              
                              Open your eyes, and realize the government is the problem.

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                     lovemychrisposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Evan, are you that naive?

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                        Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        IF you insist that the government is doling out bonuses to industries...
                        
                        ... and you agree that this is a problem...
                        
                        ... and the money comes from your wallet...
                        
                        ... and you can't get your government to say "no"...
                        
                        ...
                        
                        how can you possibly argue that companies are evil?
                        
                        Obviously the problem is government.

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         Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Doug, I know what you are reffering to and big oil funded all the so called grass roots movements that were protesting the construction of the charging station across Califonia. Bush's cabinet was composed of primarily big oil and auto industry executives. His admin actually sued California to stop their attempts to improve their air quality. Those who dont care about the truth will ignore Dubya's entry into the 2003 Guiness Book of Records. He was entered for providing more millionaires with government jobs than any previous president. He had more millionaires in his cabinet than any other president. Who do you think the Bush family of crooks actually worked for? On a side note all these wars people are complaining about are due to what or who. A large portion of those we are fighting today were put in power by Bush senior when he was with the CIA. Bush senior sells them guns and weapons his cronies manufacture and they get to supplyt our troops with the same weapons to take them out. People in this country have a very selective short memory. They only remember what the Faux News Network tells the to remember dont they?

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      Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What caused the spill was the typical shoddy work Halliburton has become known for combined with a disregard for anything but profits from the two other companies involved. This is the second well blow out Halliburton has been responsible for. I assume regulations are also responsible for every other job this company of crooks has failed to complete anywhere close to acceptable standards they have undertaken. How do you come to the conclusion that regulations are reponsible for countless government contracts Halliburton has been granted and screwed up. Remember the US Army barracks they built in Iraq that had to be closed to to the danger they presented to our service men and women. Are you telling me that regulations are what caused the quality of work that allowed raw sewage to be leaking from the ceilings. No what caused thisand the gulf spill  is a company or group of companies that have no regard for the environment, or the people they are working for. I would like to hear how you think deregulation will force these companies to do the jobs they are hired to do. These companies are complaining that complying with regulations are hurting their profit margin. So, in your opinion if we deregulate these and other industries said industries will magically start to give a damn about anything other than profits.  Thats a load of horse crap and you know it.

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         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         you completely ignored the fact that there we MASSIVE incentives put in place
         by government to drill in such dangerous areas.

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            Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            this were true it has nothing to do with the quality of work or more correctly, the lack of quality of work, these companies provided. Unless, they a tough area. They ignored common sense and proper safe guards because they could. Are you telling me that over regulation is the reason Halliburton refuses to do a decent job on any of their no-bid, cost plus billion dollar contracts? The problem is that more and more companies are writing the laws that govern them and the regulations they must obey. That is a reduction in regulations, and that is the reason BP, Halliburton and Transocean manged to almost destroy and entire eco-system. Add Australia's blow out and that's two eco systems Halliburton has attempted to destroy. I sincerly hope you dont believe that nothing but reducing the regulations these companies must follow will make these companies do things safely and correctly.

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