Were you familiar with the term "Incel" involuntary celibate/angry male virgin b

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   dashingscorpioposted 9 years ago

   Were you familiar with the term "Incel" involuntary celibate/angry male virgin before Elliot Rodger?
   
   According to information left by Elliot Rodger he killed students in Santa Barbara because he was a 22 year old virgin who had suffered many rejections from women. He also hated to see other males who had beautiful girlfriends and imagined them having incredible sex lives.
   There have always been some young males who viewed being a virgin as a "negative" and many of them often lied about experiences to impress their peers. Has the supposedly ease of getting sex according to (images in the media) made male virgins feel even more inadequate and frustrated?
   
   

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      TheShadowSpecterposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Back in 2014 when this Elliot Rodger incident happened, I had never heard of the word "incel."  After the incident in Toronto, Canada in which a 25-year-old man drove into a crowd and ran people over so many years later, that word "incel" was everywhere in the press and the media.  This same man even admitted that he idolized Elliot Rodger as the leader of the "incel movement."  What I'm not understanding here is that a lot of people on this discussion thread are saying that Elliot Rodger appeared to show gay characteristics and that perhaps those were what caused women to reject him.  My response in contradiction to that statement is that since the time I was a teenager, I've always observed women to feel more comfortable around gay men and even become attracted to them.  I mean, look at the example of Rock Hudson.  He was gay, and women flocked all over him.

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         dashingscorpioposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I believe Elliot had a lot of issues which included feeling "self-entitled" having come from a rich family in Los Angeles. He expected "hot" looking girls to shower attention on him without him being personable or having any "cool/swagger" or confidence. In fact he didn't have male friends.
         He was a awkward loner who had a hard time fitting in anywhere.
         
         As for Rock Hudson he was 6' 4" always played a straight guy in his movies, exuded charm, charisma, and a good sense of humor. He also had the traditional manly physique. Elliot was nerdy and small in stature. Combine that with his lack of personality you can see why he struck out.

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            TheShadowSpecterposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, I get what you're saying.  There can be no question that Rock Hudson had many more genetic gifts than Elliot Rodger did.  At the same time, Elliot Rodger's rich background gave him more bargaining tools to attract the kind of girls he wanted than most men his age.  The problem was that he apparently didn't know how to use them; and if he had known how to use them, there was always that strong possibility that many of the "hot" girls whom he could have attracted would have turned out to be gold diggers.  I guess that it goes to show you that money cannot buy happiness.  At least not the kind of happiness that Elliot Rodger was looking for in the manner that would have been beneficial to him in the long run.  The sad thing about it all is that before he went over the edge and turned to violence, there were probably men his age who had less money than him and his family and had thought that he had everything that anyone could possibly want.  That is, unless they saw his videos on YouTube.

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               dashingscorpioposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Excellent points.
               
               The saddest thing is we can't attribute all to immaturity.  George Sodini, 48, who opened fire in a women’s dance class at an LA Fitness gym near Pittsburgh, killing four — including himself — and wounding nine others.
               
               The following comes from a newspaper article which highlighted some George's  "manifesto giving the world some insight into his mindset.
               
               "Alone on Christmas Eve 2008, a desperate Pittsburgh man named George Sodini sat at his computer and puzzled over his sexless life.
               
               "Moving into Christmas again," he wrote in an online diary. "No girlfriend since 1984 . . . Who knows why. I am not ugly or too weird. No sex since July 1990 either . . . Over 18 years ago."
               
               Sodini, 48, was flabbergasted since he saw himself as a catch.
               
               He was fit and had gleaming bleached teeth. He owned a car and house, and his job as a law firm IT tech gave him money to spare — but no one to spend it on."
               
               "I actually look good," he wrote. "I dress good, am clean-shaven, bathe, touch of cologne — yet 30 million women rejected me over an 18- or 25-year period."
               
               The problem these guys have is they can't seem to attract (the kind) of girls/women THEY want to be with. It's not that they can't find a woman period. Go to any mall, movie theatre, park, beach, grocery store, church or wherever and you're bound to see men of all shapes, heights, races, and various physical flaws who somehow manage to have a wife or girlfriend. Clearly there must be {something about their demeanor}, approach, personality, or they are aiming at women out of their league.
               
               Last but not least anyone who has not had sex in 18 years simply isn't trying too hard. I suspect there are women whom they could have had relationships with however the Incel felt he was "too good" for them.
               
               There are legalized brothels outside of Las Vegas, NV as well as in many countries around the globe. I'd rather see these guys visit one of them than go around killing women. However I suspect it's really not about not having sex but rather it's not having sex with (the type of women) THEY want to have sex with that angers them!
               
               One of the reasons why so called "nice guys" finish last is because for some reason they choose not to pursue "nice girls". Average ordinary looking, overweight, or skinny women need love too!
               
               Odds are there are just as many lonely "nice girls" who never have men hitting on them, flirting with them, asking them out, or trying to seduce them. And yet they don't go out on (men killing sprees).
               
               In many ways women feel like they have it worst than men. Most cultures around the world expect women not to be "proactive" with finding a mate. They are usually regulated to (waiting) for men to ask them out or even propose marriage. Where as if a guy gets rejected he can move on to another woman within minutes if he chooses to.
               
               In a world with over 7 Billion people rejection just means: NEXT!

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                  TheShadowSpecterposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Dashingscorpio?  I haven’t had the opportunity to read about the George Sodini incident as somehow I overlooked that story on the news back in 2009; but now that you’ve mentioned it, I will be reading up on it.  Like you, I also don’t believe that visiting a bordello is going to solve all of these Incels’ life problems.  In following some of the stories about them, it becomes quite obvious that they believe that sex workers are way below them and they see them as used cars. Therefore, it would be kind of like expecting someone to prefer dentures or false teeth over the regeneration of natural teeth.  Nevertheless, I’m not completely mindless of what you’re saying about preferring that these Incels resort to buying sex rather than committing violence against women.  I do recall an edition of the talk show Maury back in the 1990s in which a 26-year-old convicted rapist appeared via satellite screen from his correctional facility and Maury Povich interviewed him.  This man was probably the first Incel I had ever seen on television who admitted to being an Incel long before I had ever known what the word meant.  The excuse he gave the audience for raping women was that none of them would give him a fair chance.  An older man in the audience with a thick New York accent told the guy that instead of ruining women’s lives by committing the heinous crimes that he did, he could have simply picked up a hooker off the street and paid her to sleep with him.  The others in the audience chuckled.  However, the only thing is that once this man gets out of prison if he hasn’t already, now that we have the sex offender registry here in the United States of America and he would probably be on it, I believe that even female sex workers are going to keep their distance from this man in fear of their safety.  Likewise, they’re going to distance themselves from any Incel or any man who gives strong indication that he would do something violent or even lethal to women.  Therefore, I think that this Incel problem is much more complex than society wants to believe.

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                     dashingscorpioposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     I get what you're saying with the false teeth analogy.
                     False teeth are better than No Teeth! LOL!
                     
                     Nevertheless "Incel" supposedly stands for INVOLUNTARILY Celibate.
                     Whether it is having sex with hookers or less attractive women who might be willing the fact remains these guys did have "options" to have sex!
                     
                     Involuntarily implies they have No Options and are Forced to be Celibate.
                     Maybe they need to change the name of their group!
                     
                     Essentially THEY ARE (volunteering) to be celibate Over other Options.
                     It's as if they said: "If I can't live in a mansion I choose to be homeless!"
                     
                     No rational person would call them "involuntarily homeless".
                     They want what they cannot have or they're aiming out of their league.
                     

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                        TheShadowSpecterposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        That one edition of Maury in which that 26-year-old convicted rapist appeared as a guest via satellite screen from a correctional facility was very disturbing.  In fact, it was the creepiest talk show that I had ever seen.  If a 40-year-old male virgin who had never been in the arms of a woman had appeared as a guest on that talk show instead, I believe that people in the audience would have probably empathized with him and even directed sympathetic comments his way.  However, just about everyone kept staring at the 26-year-old rapist in disbelief as he kept trying to justify his heinous crimes by complaining that women just wouldn't pay any attention to him.  In my humble opinion, whenever a man is unpopular with women and he is also hypersexual like that 26-year-old rapist was, it makes an extremely dangerous and destructive combination.  At the same time, I'm not saying that all Incels are that way.  Probably most of them are law-abiding citizens.  However, unfortunately, the press, the media, and even the talk show industry all appear to focus most of their attention on Incels who engage in rash and even criminal behavior.

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                           dashingscorpioposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           "However, unfortunately, the press, the media, and even the talk show industry all appear to focus most of their attention on Incels who engage in rash and even criminal behavior." - Very true!
                           
                           The only way a story usually makes it into the media, talk shows, or news is if it's highly unusual, scary, offensive, shocking, or heartbreaking.
                           
                           It's easy sometimes to loose sight of the fact that the media, talk shows, and even the "news" are {in business} to generate readers, viewers, high ratings, and lots of click throughs in order to charge advertisers top $$$.
                           
                           I imagine most incels lead lives of quiet desperation whereby they go to work and come home. Their social outings consist of hanging out with family or possible another incel playing video games and complaining.
                           Revenge at most remains a fantasy they may momentarily entertain.
                           
                           I suspect most incels really don't have any close (male) friends who are popular with girls/women. They are essentially loners/social outcasts.

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                              TheShadowSpecterposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Yeah, it could be possible that incels become subjects of some kind of alienation or isolation from others at some point in their lives to the extent that they may even become socially destitute.  Most of them probably don't have male friends that are married and have families, because they have lives that are diametrically different from theirs and share so very little in common with them.  Otherwise, it could just be that many of them have suffered an unusual turn of events in their lives that has caused them to become withdrawn from mainstream society.  For example, they may live in some remote place like the Antarctica inasmuch as their work has brought them there and they simply have no ongoing access to opportunities to find romance depending on how much day-to-day contact they have with other people in their job.  Or it could be possible that many of these incels have an unusual amount of responsibilities in caring for a loved one who is incapable of caring for themselves, to the extent that they are in a situation that is not conducive to finding a girlfriend simply because there is no time available for them to do so.  I sincerely don't think there really is any one answer to explain why they do exist.  Unfortunately, it is inevitable that there will be people who will stereotype incels as being the way they are because of low charisma.  However, I think that there is much more to it than what meets the eye.
                              
                              What greatly disturbs me is that I once saw a YouTube video in which a female C.E.O. was encouraging other individuals in positions of corporate power not to employ anyone whom they suspected to be an incel.  Luckily, there are employment discrimination laws on the books that prohibit this form of professional ostracism to some degree, although employers who engage in these activities are bound to find ways around those laws.  In any event, if this form of employment discrimination becomes commonplace here in the United States of America, it could become a recipe for economic disaster for our nation as a whole.
                              
                              I say that, no, society cannot find each incel a significant other of their choice to provide them with the kind of love life that they so desire, but, yes, society can pass laws to keep employers from discriminating against them in hiring practices and from turning them into an economically marginalized class of people.

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   peeplesposted 9 years ago

   I had seen the phrase before online. The media plays a lot of roles in it however I'm guessing like most children he was likely influenced in other environmental ways when he was young. I've watched several videos of him, and I say this with no offense meant, but I'm not sure the guy was even straight. He has extremely feminine ways. His body language, the way he speaks all come out feminine and leave me wondering if this had anything to do with the issues he was having. In only speculation, I wonder if women noticed those traits and assumed him to be gay.
   He was clearly delusional and had been for quite a while. I'm sure the environmental factors played a large role in this shooting however I doubt him having sex would have kept it from happening. He would have found something in the sexual experience to make him feel more inadequate and likely been angered even more when things didn't go the way he had imagined them in his head.

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      dashingscorpioposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      peeples, You're very perceptive. I too believe if he had sex he still wasn't going to be happy in life. It's possible these "hot women" who ignored him, assumed he was gay, or saw him as a geek/nerd. Blaming others for one's unhappiness is twisted

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   jaydawg808posted 9 years ago

   I was not aware of this term. In my opinion, sex isn't "everything" in the world. Being a virgin at 22 isn't bad. Being a virgin at 40 isn't bad either. Being a virgin isn't bad at all. I think that it's unfortunate that people lost their lives because of a selfish act that he did because he hated his life. It's always an inconvenience to others when something like this happens.
   
   It matters because he took his own life & others. That's just cowardly. "Hey, I hate my life, I'm going to kill myself, but not without others suffering as well."
   
   If he had just locked himself in that cheap BMW, pulled the trigger, nobody would have really cared. But because of the grandiose effect of how he played his plan out, he's selfish in that respect.
   
   He's not exactly "ugly" but he does have "gay" tendencies. Maybe he hasn't met the right women in his life. Plus that, parents weren't there. He was crying for help. Too bad he wasn't helped before this tragedy.

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      dashingscorpioposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You're right, if he'd simply took his own life no one would care. However other shootings and the attention they've gotten has made it possible for a (nobody) to die as a "somebody". If sex meant so much he could have hired an escort.

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         TheShadowSpecterposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         He probably thought that escorts were below him.

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   bethperryposted 9 years ago

   No, I hadn't seen it before. But as to Rodger's personal problems -and he obviously had them- I tend to think the root of the problem is he suffered from an anger disorder. He may have been a virgin frustrated with what he perceived as social expectations, but he could have just as well have been a sex addict with frustration with what he perceived as religious expectations. According to a friend who is a psychiatrist and studies such disorders, some individuals substitute rage for sexual gratification, and exaggerate feelings of inadequacy and frustration as vehicles of stimulus. For these individuals the overly indulged angst is a stimulant much like foreplay is for the rest of us. Of course, this pattern of behavior may have its own dark roots in childhood experiences, such as seeing parents or teachers indulging in episodes of extreme anger, or from hearing others make repetitive, scorching denunciations of certain peoples, such as prostitutes, minorities, children, gays, women in general, ect. The individual is incapable of developing positive, constructive feelings of passion and the objects of their hate have been turned into the object (and recipient) of their passion.

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      dashingscorpioposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Very true! What scares a lot of people is believing more "ticking time bombs" are out there with no way to stop them. Most of us accept rejection as a part of life. He felt like an outcast being a virgin at 22 when sex is supposedly easy to get.

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   The Examiner-1posted 9 years ago

   No, it is not familiar. Can you hum a few bars?

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   RealestMotherDearposted 9 years ago

   There is some widespread emotional retardation happening.

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