Haiti

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   (Q)posted 14 years ago

   Haiti is about 95% Christian beliefs.
   
   Even though I may not agree with the beliefs of Christianity, I would like to offer my condolences to the brethren of Christians here who have lost many from their fold. Perhaps, some here have even lost family and friends there.
   
   It's easy to see how powerful nature is and what it can do in a single moment in time. No belief in gods will ever stop such events from occurring, no matter how hard people pray or assume that gods have any control whatsoever over nature.
   
   If you do still believe gods have control, think hard about this catastrophe and how it will challenge and shake your beliefs to their very foundations.

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      Will Bensonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't see how a thread like this would benefit anyone.
      
      Just my thoughts.

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      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are yet to understand death is not a bad thing .
      
      The soul is immortal.

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         (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The dead of brain should not be confused with the dead.

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            mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No confusion at all. Cannot be so highly ranked in poetry,spirituality and religious philosophy if I was brain dead.

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         qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Mohit:
         Pls expand on that thought..'immortal soul." ...and, how you come to whatever conclusion yo come to....ty  :-)

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            mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            On death one becomes this energy or soul, you are very much alive but there is no body involved.In fact more alive than you are in the body.
            This is a fragment of the super soul or god the Light which has no beginning or end and is timeless.
            One needs to experience this for himself in order to understand it properly.
            
            All philosophers from Greek , Shamans, Egyptians , Hindus talk of the immortality of the soul and an after life. 

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      chambersgirl21posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ummm....I think you meant to say that they are 80-90% Catholic beliefs with a little voodoo in there
      
      My condolences also go out to the people of Haiti.
      By the way, this doesnt change my belief about God whatsoever. This kind of stuff is only going to get worse as the time draws near when our saviour comes to redeem us.

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      sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are a very sick person.  I cannot believed you used a countries tragedy as an attack on Christianity.  Maybe if you believed in God as well, this stuff wouldn't happen.  Oh wait, impossible because you are more righteous then thou. 
      
      Whatever,  you are a cruel individual with no regards for the sanctity of human spirit.

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         (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You mean, earthquakes wouldn't happen if I believed in your god? In other words, because I don't believe in your god, the earthquake DID happen, is that right?
         
         
         
         That's quite a tall horse you've suddenly mounted yourself upon.

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            sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You are just a vile human being.  You would rather make the whole thing an attack against people who believe in God then you would just show some compassion.  You are pretty much worthless and vain and indignant and not someone worthy of respect.
            
            Point being, get off your horse and do something rather then attacking people who believe in God and making the whole situation about God.

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               (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Why don't you tell us how you really feel? It seems your best posts are when you do nothing but insult others.

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         getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sandra, I hope you feel the same about Pat Robertson.  His comments were way beyond what was said here.

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      Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "Offering Condolences to the brethren of christians"
      
      It doesn't matter what religion they are. They are people and what happened to them could happen anytime, to any country.
      
      At the moment, some ways we can help would be to support or circulate info on how/where people can support. I can't stop thinking about what they are going through.
      
      It isn't a religious issue.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   I do not understand why some people do not understand that everyone must die.  Death and renewal is a natural occurrence within our own bodies which perpetuates LIFE within our body.  It is no diffrent in the grand scheme of things. 
     The worm within the cocoon must die to what it was in order to fly as a butterfly.
     When we mourn the death of our loved ones we are mourning our loss.

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      (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So, you're saying those in Haiti MUST have died?

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         mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yes their time had come, this universe is in absolute perfection look around you, if the planets can move with such precision dont you think we do as well?
         
         "Grieve not for me when I die as I go to this place where there is no disease, broken bones or excruciating heart aches. "Paramhansa Yoganada

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            (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And, had you said that to my face, I would have punched your lights out.

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               mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           keep your distance boy.no one raises their hand on me and everyone is not foolish to ignore the advice of a poet ranked so highy.

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                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Have told many who have come to me when their family member died and none dared raise their hand as I meant only good and no harm.

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                  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I thought prophets were supposed to be humble.

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                     mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I am and I am speaking the truth.
                     Punch me and I am supposed to say thank you for being so kind?

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            The Ropeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not God so I can't judge why these things happen, all I can do is trust my God and do my best in my little part of the world. 
            
            I echo Crazedwriter and Daniel "My heart goes out to as well as my prayers for those who were injured and for those who died in that horrible earthquake." and donate my time and efforts in care of my fellow humans.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           Everyone must go at some point, but we are never ready to let them go.
           When we mourn the death of our loved ones we are mourning our losses, not theirs.
           The earth maintains a balance in nature.
           For every person leaving this world there will be at least one new life coming into it.   
           I feel sadness for the survivors who are going through their grief. I know their pain. I have been widowed twice and lost a five year old Daughter as well as good friends, Parents, Grandparents etc.
            We can find comfort in knowing that death of this physical body is Not the end.
            At some point in time we will all go through this.
         How we react is all up to us.

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            qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jerami:
            What do you mean when you say or intimate that when we die it isn't the end?

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3. 0

   Will Bensonposted 14 years ago

   The Red Cross and many other organizations are accepting donations for what will be a gigantic relief effort.
   
   http://www.redcross.org/

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   My heart goes out to as well as my prayers for those who were injured and for those who died in that horrible earthquake.

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      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Mine too.
      
      It's incredibly easy to say not to grieve and that death is a part of life and that the universe is perfect. I don't disbelieve any of it. But I dare any of you who lack such compassion and emotion about this tragedy to loose your most intimate soul-mate in any way to death, and then say all is well.
      
      Words are easy. Advice is cheap. Empathy and understanding come because you've gone through it yourself and you empathize with those who have suffered as you.
      
      I send my best and highest thoughts to those who are suffering.

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   Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago

   First of all I don't believe in a personalized god or the devil that intervene in our lives, so I'm just throwing this out on how I read Christians viewing disasters and events like the Holocaust.
   
   The first take is that god is punishing them.
   
   The second take is that it was their time.
   
   The third is that sometimes god wins and sometimes the devil wins - this was one of those devil wins.
   
   The fourth is that it was their fault because they didn't believe in god enough and god only helps those with near perfect faith. In their view that is why some people will get rescued and some won't.
   
   The fifth is that this is some bump in the road to a greater good. That some good will come out of this.
   
   This is just a summary of what I've heard ministers and priests say on television when this type of event happens or some predator has killed another child. I personally don't accept any of these explanations. And I have a hard time hearing people thank god for saving one person, when thousands have died in the same event.
   
   I think this thread is beneficial because people should test their belief system with reality - and see truly how their god fits in it and if it makes any sense at all.

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   kerrygposted 14 years ago

   Why do only the Christian Haitians matter? Real Christians would care as much about the 5% of non-Christian Haitians as they do the 95% who are.

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   yoshi97posted 14 years ago

   Death is not a Christian issue, nor is it something any of us should see as *acceptable*.
   
   Without concrete, physical scientific proof of an afterlife, these people's existence could be cut short and over - forever - and I find that no trivial matter. I also could care less over what percentage of those died were Christian, agnostic, or atheists.
   
   People died ... many people ...
   
   Let's not place podiums on their backs and use them as a religious argument for or against the existence of God.
   
   I seriously doubt this conversation offers anything for the many families who just lost loved ones.
   
   This was a natural disaster ... a large one ... and I know the survivors picking through the rubble right now for loved ones could care less about assigning blame, they just want their loved ones back.
   
   I'm not saying such an argument is invalid ... I'm just saying we should show some compassion by allowing time to pass for these people to grieve. Years from now we can look at this all differently and ask 'why?'.
   
   For today, I think we all should be asking 'What can I do to help?'.
   
   Keep the word 'human' in humanity ...

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      Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      well said

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   There is no way to satisfactorily explain this to someone that does not want to understand. And I do not understand enough to explain if I wanted to.
      My consciousness and awareness is but a recorded memory of events that happen within my life span on earth.
      That is not all of who I am. This other part of who I am will be returning to where it came from. When it does I believe that it will take my conciseness and awareness with it. 
      I believe this happens regardless of what we choose to think or do, with or without religion or logic.

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      qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Jerami:
      Why would I ask if I didn't want to learn?
      So, in reality you are just offering an opinion with no basis in knowledge or fact..correct?
      You have to admit that you can't be considered to be a credible "hubber" ref the question I asked
      When you make such a "claim" it would be nice if you would just mention that what you offer is but opinion and has no foundation in fact.
      If you had done this, I wouldn't have questioned you.
      Thanks for being honest..:-)

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Quark says ...Why would I ask if I didn't want to learn?
            
           Jerami says... a little bit of honesty would be appreciated from you.
            You were not expecting nor were you willing to accept any  answer as valid.
             I suppose everyone should begin each and every post with "This is only my unproven opinion", including yourself, because that is all that there is. Your opinions are no more proven than any others. 
         
            I do not mind that you have deemed me as not being a credible hupper.
            Do you have proof of this or are you being dishonest by stating an unproven opinion as a fact? 
               Call me anything that you want as long as I am not called late for supper.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   I have to run off again and see if I can make a living.
   was just checking in for a few. Will be back soon.

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    Sara Tonynposted 14 years ago

    The extent of the devastation is incredible. Unfortunately all I'm in a position to do is help by making a monetary donation but I'm glad to do it.
    
    My heartfelt condolences and best wishes go out to those affected by the tragedy. In addition, a huge thank you goes out to all those helping with aid and rescue.
    
    
    
    I'd also like to add I'm disappointed and angry this thread was created in part to take yet another swipe at Christians and their beliefs at a time like this.
    
    I can't believe common decency and common sense weren't enough to keep everyone from exploiting a catastrophe of such proportion simply to continue the totally asinine never-ending religious war that permeates the majority of threads in the forums.
    
    In simple terms, for just this once couldn't you STFU about who's right and who's wrong about God's existence or non-existence?
    
    That's all I'll say about it on this thread as I don't wish to cause any further distraction from the important point, the crisis in Haiti.

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       (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well, from that perspective, you're probably right. It did start out as a 'hands-across-the-table' so to speak and wound up something else. I do apologize for that.
       
       Unfortunately, I can't edit it.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    To the people of Haiti I offer my sincere and heartfelt love, and as much money as I can afford to give. America has generously donated 100 million dollars, Australia and other countries are providing cash and resources. This is a terrible tragedy and I feel we should all pitch in. If you are poor, you can still organise or lobby for money. Please help everyone, Haiti has been kicked to bits 3 times now, and it's beautiful people need our help regardless of what they or we believe in.

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       habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm with Earnest! Everyone stop bickering and make a donation!

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I still feel helpless, I can't go over there and dig out the living, but every single donation has a chance of helping those who can.
          I heard a few minutes ago that America also has the worlds best rescue equipment on the way to cut through the steel and concrete and reach all those trapped in fallen buildings and sadly recover all the bodies that cannot be reached.
          
          One dollar like one vote can make a difference.
          I was able to pay quite a few dollars for which I am thankful, but one dollar is great too. Please make the effort, this country has been mistreated by we larger countries for a very long time, the poorest country in that hemisphere and in need of us right now! Let's go hubbers!

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             yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             You're a great guy Earnest ... though if you want to keep that a secret I won't tell anyone - oops, I think I just did.

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                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you Yoshi, I am like many deeply flawed, but working on being better. You would have a helluva job convincing some that I am not working for the bad fairy!

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    Rochelle Frankposted 14 years ago

    There is a lot of suffering yet to come. Seeing the devastation and the sorrow and suffering in that country is very heart-wrenching.
    God bless those who are trying to help in what seems an impossible task.

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    AEvansposted 14 years ago

    Posting this thread was a kind thing to do and a nice gesture to humankind. Yes life is supposed to be eternal but the pain that the families endure when there loves ones are lost, is wrenching. I have lost my father, 2 Aunts, friends etc. and the emptiness never goes away. We are human , we have feelings and emotions I may rejoice because they are not suffering but I certainly do miss talking to them. So (Q) you did the right thing no matter what anyone says.

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       (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you, that was the intent.

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          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No it wasn't , your intent was to ridicule god and those who believed in him.You have no compassion or feelings at all for those who died.
          
          Q "If you do still believe gods have control, think hard about this catastrophe and how it will challenge and shake your beliefs to their very foundations."

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             Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             He apologized (thank you!) for straying from the original purpose so can we let it go now, please? Thank you.
             
             Back to the topic: The devastation in Haiti.

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    Dao Hoaposted 14 years ago

    My condolences to the people in Haiti.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    About doing something practical for Haiti.,.....

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    The Paulposted 14 years ago

    The original post was extremely reminiscient of the frustrating false platitudes and smugly superior "apologies" and "calls for peace" I often see Christians make.  It's no less unpleasant when an atheist does it.
    
    That a tragedy on this scale was used in an attempt for greater impact makes it feel even slimier.

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       (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, I got that, thanks. It was well pointed out to me and I attempted to edit it but it was too late. My sincere apologies to all those I offended.
       
       At the very least, I admitted to being wrong and am not afraid to say so.

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    Happyontheinsideposted 14 years ago

    I started to write a reply but words simply aren't enough. All I can say is the people of Haiti are in our thoughts and that nobody deserves to have such horrible atrocities happen to them. I hope they find many, many survivors in the days to come. I am so sorry for the terrible loss.

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