Why was Dave Matthews banned from HubPages?

1. 69

   aguasilverposted 11 years ago

   Dave Matthews has been banned from HubPages, his hubs have been taken down, and as far as I know, no reason has been given.
   
   This raises some serious points to be answered:
   
   Dave's Hubs are his property, if HP decide to ban you, will they give you access to your own property to copy the content and (if you wanted to) upload them to a new host?
   
   Dave wrote some religious hubs, but also a host of other hubs, including recipes, and has no idea why he was banned.
   
   This is NOT good, HP obviously have the right to withdraw their services from any hubber, but surely a reason should be given?.... if only for the hubber to have the ability to correct the 'wrongs' perceived or actual.
   
   Was Dave attacked for his beliefs by opponents?
   
   I for one will be trying to ensure that all my hubs are copied to my computer, in case the same thing happens to me.
   
   This is not good client/service operator relationship and does not build any trust.
   
   What is your opinion, and will HP actually provide Dave with any answers?

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   1. 82

      Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think he was banned more for attacking others than because of his religious beliefs. I'm sure Hubpages told him why he was banned. As I recall, he complained of being banned several times from the forum or questions. I guess you only get so many warnings.
      
      I'm sorry he was banned permanently but I guess it's Hubpages decision and their right to make that decision.
      
      There are lots of other places I'm sure that would allow him to publish his hubs. Others have been banned permanently and their lives have gone on.

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      1. 69

         aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Agreed, he can publish elsewhere, provided they (HP) allowed him to copy/remove his hubs existent.
         
         I was unaware that Dave was attacking others, do you mean attacking or disagreeing? I mean was he abusive to other hubbers or just offensive?
         
         Anyhow, thanks for the info....
         
         John

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         1. 85

            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            To aquasilver, this is sad.    Why ban the man?   He had a right to his opinion!     Even though I did not agree with him, let him have his voice!

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            1. 69

               aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I agree, if Dave was abusive, ban him from the forums, but taking down ALL his work, two years or more of it, when much of it was good recipes etc, and not contentious, seems draconian, and UW as far as I know Dave has NOT been informed WHY he was arbitrarily banned and his work removed.
               
               I guess the point is, HP can/could do this to any writer....
               
               It's the HP equivalent of Guantamo Bay justice!

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               1. 85

                  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  From my observation, although Dave expressed his disagreement, he was never abusive to those whom he expressed disagreement with.   He was always kind and civil-in other words, he was a complete and utter gentleman at all times.

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   2. 71

      relacheposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My opinion is that you don't seem to have read or familiarized yourself with how HubPages works despite being on the site for two years.
      
      HubPages has made it clear multiple times that they do not discuss what happens to specific people as to do so is an invasion of their privacy.  Admin is going to keep the discussion of the issue between them and Dave.  If Dave's got questions, he has to contact admin directly
      
      Why accounts can be banned is pretty exhaustively explained in the FAQ, and it's also explained that unpublishing Hubs (removal from live/public view) does happen, NOT deletion of content.
      http://hubpages.com/faq/#hubsdeleted

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      1. 60

         Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Deleted
         1. 82

            Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It doesn't work that quickly. The odds are it was in the Hub Hopper and someone else flagged it. Or the automatic filters picked it up.

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            1. 60

               Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Please.

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               1. 82

                  Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, don't believe me then. I was just telling you how the site works.
                  
                  
                  And...just because someone flags something it will not by unpublished if it does not break any rules. The ultimate decision is up to Hubpages staff.

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                  1. 60

                     Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I respect that. It was a good call. However, I changed it almost immediately, and long before I received notice that it was closed down. It wasn't a warm welcome. Maybe it was a psychological tactic. If so, it was successful. I am resolved to stay and build my pages (provided that I am not banned for my indiscretion).

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               2. 71

                  relacheposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If a Hub is flagged by a site user, it goes to the moderators, who are the ones to evaluate things and make decisions as to whether a Hub is in violation of site standards or not.
                  
                  If there is a problem, it's admins call, not the judgement of a fellow site user.  Accusing someone of maliciously flagging your Hubs in the forums has the potential to be considered a personal attack (which can also result in action from the moderators).

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                  1. 60

                     Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, you saw the title. You must admit that it was a harsh response to an ignorant blunder. It was my very first hub. There is a lot of malicious activity on this site. May I point out that it is unprofessional and reflects poorly in public. This is a glass house. There is no reason to be pompous and arrogant. There are bigger and better accomplishments than being on a website for a long time.
                     
                     I acknowledge my indiscretion. I understand the policy and will follow it at all times in the future.
                     
                     Parvus Slackus it Longus Via (Latin) - "A little slack goes a long way."

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      2. 69

         aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         100% correct I am afraid!
         
         Never been much good at reading rules, but thanks for the heads up on this.
         
         I have had hubs pulled in the 2 year I have been hubbing, and corrected them where the need arose, but never paid much attention to the whys and wherefores, I am not a commercial writer, so these hubs are my opinions and thoughts produced for those who follow me, not any attempt to make an income (though it seems I do!).
         
         I tend to write directly into the hub, not use word, so I will need to copy my hubs across to the HD, however as long as I would have access to what I have written, should I be banned at any time, I have no problem.
         
         Thanks for replying, it seems that there is no reason for anyone to be concerned, my main worry was that hubs could be deleted and lost, that is obviously not so.
         
         Thanks,
         
         John

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   3. 0

      paxwillposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Aguasilver, for your own peace of mind you should always create backup copies of anything you write for another site and your own sites as well.  Even if you are not in danger of getting banned, the sites you write for can close up shop over night.  If you have your own site, your webhosting company can have a server crash that results in all your files being deleted.  (Had that happen before!)
      
      I don't know if the banned member in question made backups, but he can always use Google to view cached copies of his hubs and copy the text from there.

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2. 60

   Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years ago

   Have I made a mistake by admitting to being a Christian and expressing how I feel?
   I love the Lord.

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   1. 69

      aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No Sawfishlagoon, overall you will probably never reach 100 as  believer, and will be attacked just for being one, but as far as I have seen, not normally banned.
      
      It could be that HP is a business and Dave was just not commercial enough for them, or maybe he offended a bigwig, what I dislike is that he was not told why, and his hubs (which are his hubs) were simply deleted in total.
      
      After two years work, that is not good at all.
      
      Off to copy all my hubs to the hard drive in case someone zeros my work sometime, and advise that we all do the same.

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      1. 85

         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you, aquasilver, I already copies half of my hubs.   Time to get cracking!

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      2. 82

         Uninvited Writerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It has nothing to do with religion. Scores are related to traffic and other factors.  There are many, many people who are not Christians who have low scores. It's got a lot to do with participation.
         
         You really should learn what a hub score represents.
         
         There is no persecution of people here just because they are Christians. Non-christians get attacked just as often. Disagreeing is not attacking.
         
         But it is smart anyway to have a backup of your hubs for many reasons. But, when you get banned you still have access to your hubs.

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      3. 60

         Sawfishlagoonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I write in a word processing program (cut and paste) and have all of my stuff in files. If you have your copy only on a website - good luck with that.

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3. 94

   peeplesposted 11 years ago

   Dave was very rude at times. I went back to my questions to see if I could copy and paste one of his answers but I guess they deleted those also. He has directly name called in answers to my questions. Even though I have never just downed anyone on hubpages, my lack of belief in a god must have angered him when I first arrived in the answers section. I disliked his approach very much. I also have never heard of hubpages just deciding to ban someone out of nowhere. I am sure he was warned just like others. That being said I think that there are far worse people her in the forum section. It is very wrong if Hubpages did not allow him to get his work so he could take it with him.

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   1. 69

      aguasilverposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      OK, UW has explained it a bit better, (thanks UW)  and I am glad Dave would have been allowed access to his hubs, that would be my main concern, should I get ejected!.
      
      As for Dave in the forums, well I've been banned three times, but never a total banning, and (frankly) my bans were justified in hindsight, as I had started getting 'heavy' with people, which can happen when you get too involved in a topic or disagreement with another hubber/s.
      
      Time out is a good way to maintain order.
      
      So thanks all, my fears are lessened, though I still think Dave should be told WHY, and (unless he does not want to say) he has said he has not been told why.
      
      You are right peeples, there are some much worse than Dave was, indeed I remember him as being relatively decent, but like us all, inclined to react rather than respond on occasion!

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      1. 85

         gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Well to me, Dave was respectful and pleasant.    In fact, he was one of the most respectful and pleasant people to be around!     There are some people, not in the forums, who critique other hubbers, calling them names and attacking their parents.   They attacked a hubber, calling that hubber names and attacked the hubber's parents.   One was mentioned as one of the best hubbers.   Well, it shows how low class they are-they should be banned.   Dave  NEVER- what a complete gentleman!

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4. 87

   Will Apseposted 11 years ago

   I think he was banned mainly because a high percentage of his content was copy and paste stuff from the bible.
   
   He presented large chunks of scripture with an unoriginal commentary that would have triggered plenty of spam warnings in any reasonable copyscape-type filters.
   
   It is sad that he went after triumphantly announcing his one hundred thousandth view.

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5. 85

   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   Well, despite the assumptions regarding the reason Dave was banned, only Dave actually knows as to why he was banned!    Nevertheless, I wish him good luck on his future endeavors!

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6. 0

   Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago

   a) If one breaks hubpage rules, one will be banned, I suppose. It's called business. And HP owns the business. If someone is not good for their business, that person would probably be warned. I do know that when some of my hubs haven't followed rules, they have been removed and I have been notified to fix them up. This has generally sent me into panic stations while I fixed them up. That said, there is a rule that if too many of one's hubs are removed, then one will be banned. If he was copying large chunks from the bible as Will Apse has said, this may be a reason.
   
   b) HP has no business telling anyone but the person they have banned, why s/he was banned. They are 100% percent legally and ethically correct in that.
   
   c) Most people work in word and then copy and paste into HP. The reason is that one has to write and rewrite, edit and re-edit, and even so, what one eventually puts up (Murphy's law) has errors. I cannot imagine not having a copy of something I have written for the web. I do. Each file has the name of the site for which I write so that if anything ever happened, I could immediately access what I have written. I think Matt probably has as well. If not, I'm not quite sure why he wouldn't have worked in the normal way.
   
   d) Unfortunately I cannot comment on whether he was rude or not as, for the most part, I tend to ignore religion...

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7. 0

   Arlene V. Pomaposted 11 years ago

   If you value your HubPages account, you will play the game and not do anything to get banned!  When a Hub author gets permanently banned or decides to close the account, that's between the Hub author and HubPages ADM.  For the rest of us?  It's none of our friggen' business!

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8. 82

   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   Anyone who never saw him use personal insults wasn't looking very hard.  I like the guy well enough.  but if you ignore the rules even after temp bans, well....

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9. 61

   Disappearingheadposted 11 years ago

   I can't say I noticed any personal insults from Dave. And I'm sure he wasn't banned because his hubs weren't make HP any money. Mine have never made me a single penny; not that I've written one for a good 8 months, I don't have the time anymore.
   
   Im sure he'll be back soon anyway under another name. It's what I would do.
   
   I've noticed though in the last month a huge number of people are missing from this forum. Has HP done some kind of clear out?

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10. 0

    Arlene V. Pomaposted 11 years ago

    Banned, lost interest, disappointed, attacked by the black and white animals, hated by Google,  wasn't making the big money as planned, attitude adjustment needed, etc., etc., etc.  Didn't have any time--like you.  Take your pick!  One size fits all!  LOL!!!

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11. 66

    2uesdayposted 11 years ago

    I do not think ex-Hubbers have problems with moving their unpublished hubs. They just have to wait for them to clear from Google then they can add them to another site or to their own site or blogs.

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12. 58

    tussinposted 11 years ago

    Dave Matthews was banned because he wrote a lot of incoherent biblical diatribes that were little more than personal opinion, copied and pasted huge portions of the Bible, and wrote in all-caps bold italics. Religious hubs and personal stories are fine, but he wasn't combining the two in a way that made for enlightening reading. There are plenty of other hubbers who manage to write interesting and thought-provoking articles about their personal religious beliefs and interpretations of scripture. Hubpages improved the quality of this site by deleting his account, which is better for everyone, so I don't see what all the crying is for.
    
    I wish him luck placing these pieces on another site, because he's going to need it. What other site would want his badly formatted poorly written religious rants? His best option is to rewrite and edit his deleted articles and then post the revised articles on a blog.

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