As a result of the current Jesus troll who is signing up under another name as fast as you ban her, may I suggest that nobody is able to post in the forum unless they have five hubs up that have been accepted, as well as a two week period before they can talk. This is done on other sites to keep trolls away and is quite effective.
I didn't notice anything different. I stopped reading anything to do with religion on the HP forum.
They can publish five Hubs just as easily as signing up. I don't think that would prevent anyone from being an annoying troll if that's what they really want to do.
Totally agree with you Sophie. I would like to add to that. I believe that a person must be on HubPages at least 1 year and have at least 56 hubs and have a good hubscore of 80 and above before being allowed to participate in the forums.
Sounds like a great solution to me. I hope HP staff are listening.
I agree that someone needs to do something about this problem of the many "crank", "radical" and "crappy English" Hubs that are put out there obviously just for radical or financial reasons.
But, How do you do such a thing and still have some semblance of "free speech" on HP?
Personally, I just FLAG them and they seem to go away, but I am tired of having to read these things far enough into their diatribe to finally flag them. This can take 5-10 minutes each in order to be fair.
Sadly, I think the great FLAG option is our only fair choice.
Personally, as a reader, I think using a simple colored star beside the article title would be enough for me. Gold for a Hubber with a score of 90+, Silver for 50-90, Red for lower than 50. At least with something like this, when I sign on each day, I can read the category of writer that I feel like reading; Established writers, Growing writers, or New writers.
But, really, categories suck too!
I think there is a great deal of confusion about 'free speech' is. At the time that this concept was put into the constitution, it meant that people couldn't be arrested, imprisoned, or executed because they said something that upset the king or the reigning authorities. It had absolutely nothing to do with bad manners, harrassment, having the ability to kick people out of one's house (ergo, business) if one didn't like them for some reason.
Free speech, as written by those who wrote the constitution, had nothing to do with anything but government.
There is absolutely no moral, ethical, or legal reason why anybody on hubpages can say exactly what they like if it upsets HP or anybody else.
I like the idea of hubs having to be at a certain level before people are allowed to partake in the forum. That makes a lot of sense, and it would be very effective.
why not just stop anyone with a score of 50 or less from posting n the forums.....jimmy
Totally agree Sophia. Sock puppets/trolls are a pain here and it should be easy to implement this.
People keep talking about feeding the trolls and then don't follow their own advice and get into arguments with them. These people want attention, so just ignore them and don't reply to any of their threads or replies
Agree with most of the comments, but as CM has said the best way is to totally ignore them. If they have no one to talk to they would more then likely go to another site with their arguments.
I am being spammed. Every single time she signs up, she follows me and then writes the type of fanmail that needs to be deleted immediately. It is time consuming and annoying. It has to be a troll. Nobody who is genuinely religious would act that way. Yes, if one ignores them, they go away eventually, but it takes a while for them to reveal their colors. The best way is simply prevention.
As am I, Sophia, and it's ... annoying, to say the least. I've no real understanding of the behavior, but I have begun to just ignore it, as there seems to be no other viable option.
If she is spamming you, flag her profile immediately for spamming and shoot an email to staff. Annoying that you have to do this as these people eat up your precious time with their nonsense, but total non-engagement and flagging is probably the only way to eventually get rid of them.
I've done that several times. Hubpages have told me that there is no way of stopping her and I must just mark her emails as spam. That's a bit difficult to do as she is not emailing me directly, just rejoining the site every five minutes and then signing up as a follower and then writing a long piece of bs on my fanmail which I then have to delete.
I stay out of the sock/trololol discussions -- that way they are actually kind of amusing to sit back and watch unfold.
C-mon Y'all...aren't you being a little hard on trolls here?They're just lonely mentally prepubescent people with big egos and small genitalia who need a friendly Hand to help them gain some self esteem....No?
...just be sure they wash their hand before you take it...lol?
Are you suggesting censorship? There is a flag option for hubs, profiles and a report button for forum posts.
I do think it might be more effective to put a 2 or 3 day time period before a new sign up can post in the forums. If it's too long, some may get frustrated if they're seriously having an issue with publishing and need assistance. Those signing up to troll may get annoyed and move on. Troll threads should be ignored and reported. They're generally quite obvious. If you have an annoying troll follower, you might want to allow them to leave a few comments so you can get their IP address. Although this doesn't always work, because of proxy servers.
I would just delete and ignore at this point. Obviously this person knows he/she has succeeded in upsetting you.
RebekahELLE, no, I'm not suggesting censorship. What I'm saying is that people think that Free Speech means that they can say anything without consequences. No, that's not true. If one is rude to someone, they won't like you. It has a consequence. If one misbehaves in an area, one will be removed from an area. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that HP should have to tolerate conversation that it feels harms its business image. It's their business. They can do what they like. That's freedom, isn't it.
There are laws about defamation and libel. They are there, because while people can say anything they like, there are consequences if what they say harms others in ways.
Sophia - You have explained this clearly and well. In America we are quick to bring up "Freedom of Speech" (as if that trumps every other concern or issue) and apply it to situations it was never intended to address. Thank you.
If it is in the fan mail section was an option where you had to approve it before it showed up - deny or approve still appears on mine. I do n't think it shows up to anyone but you until it is approved. Of course if 'it' appears as hub comments as well then it is more time consuming.
From what I see, that's what they do. It's their business and how they run it is their business.
I've had an account here for 24 months now, never used it before, now I have decided to, and ironically, my first hub is about the Forums, if I weren't allowed access to the forums just because I didn't have 5 published hubs would make it harder for me to publish my first hub as I prefer to write about the site in particular before I start writing my general stuff, just to see the stats etc...
Not all of us, in fact, hardly any of us, are here to spam/troll. The minority who are should be dealt with on an individual basis, and if she can keep coming back, clearly there aren't very good ban controls set here, it leaves me to wonder.
No offence meant, but someone who wants to be on the forums before they decide to write is not what I would consider a writer. Writers are famously heavy introverts.
So, what you are saying is that, if say a writer decides to take a look at the forum first, makes a couple posts, to get an idea of how the community acts, means, they can't be a "good" writer? I'd like to see evidence of that...
My words were, 'what I consider a good writer.' My words were NOT 'before they decide to write is not a writer.'
The emphasis is 'I consider' which is opinion, not necessarily fact....
Just for the record, consider the bio on the author...
"I've been an avid writer online for 3-4 years, specialising in writing articles on a pay-per-view basis, overtime I have moved more towards using Adsense."
There is a comma after the word basis which should be a period. And the word, 'overtime' is the start of a new sentence but is treated as a phrase. This is a run-on sentence - bad, bad grammar. In short, in the only sentence that represents the writer, two major grammatical errors are made...
Not a problem. I just think that it's essential that people be vetted as writers and that there is a waiting period. There are far too many people who sign up only for the forums and they never publish anything. Essentially, if people are that lonely that they have to join a writer's forum to discuss religion (or maybe radical politics), then they shouldn't be on this forum.
Well, no one is perfect when it cmes to spelling and punctuation. (For example, "offense" is spelled with an "s.") Also, not every writer is an introvert. I just don't follow the logic, so please explain. Are you saying that since "writers are famously heavy introverts" then writers here don't want/need to use the forums? What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that you should get to decide what constitutes a writer based on their use of punctuation? HP should use your opinion to decide whether or not writers are worthy of posting on this forum? I'm not sure what point you're making here.
Trolls are just part of the internet. If you don't like them, don't engage them. I think the trolls keep coming back to these forums because they get exactly what they want here, which is people who just can resist responding to them.
If HP has the time and manpower to set up a probation period for the forums, that's fine with me, but I'd rather they first use that time and manpower to set up a probationary period for publishing and ditch the pending phase for proven writers' articles.
Actually, you're mistaken about the way offence is spelled. I have it right. You have it wrong. Study the following:
Offense is a sports term. Offence isn't.
You give me one internationally best selling author that is an extrovert, and I'll take that comment back. For the most part, people confuse literacy with creative writing. That's like comparing the stick men most of us draw with fine art.
Next, my post was not about whether people couldd write or not. It was about joining specifically to troll on the forums. They have no articles and no profiles. In order to stop that I suggested that writers can only comment on the forums if they write a particular number of articles and have a waiting period. If they want to ask questions about writing, they're permitted to ask on the relevant forums that have to do with those topics, but everything else is off limits - i.e. politics and religion and anything else that can be trolled.
Incidentally, it's a tweak to the software, nothing more. It doesn't take that much time. And, yes, once upon a time, I used to write program software.
Please don't take my comments out of context.
Like I said, no one is perfect. I was not taking your comments out of context. I was asking for clarification because I did not understand the point you were trying to make. I am unclear about what being a quality writer or an introvert has to do with posting on the HubPages forums. I'm still unsure why this discussion has turned into a debate on typos, punctuation, introversion, and now internationally best selling authors. Oh well.
Well, if you follow the conversation, you'll find out how those items came into the conversation. I'm really not going to backtrack to explain it to you.
If you don't understand, then I suggest you go back to school because others got it. I'm sorry you didn't.
It would be nice of troll reported where actions within hours not a day or more. I volunteered to do it. I mean any active forum should have a moderator available at least in the active time zones.
We all claim to want as much freedom as possible. So why is it that the minute something doesn't go our way, we want to take some of that freedom away from OTHERS ? Don't get me wrong. I am most annoyed, as are a large number of Hubpagers, by overly religious hubs and questions, and they still push my buttons sometimes. But I have overcome the urge to answer or comment on them, because in the end, I was the one wasting my time, when I could be writing or reading more of what I like. Some people are just impossible to dialogue with, so I just ignore them. At least, I have that choice. And honestly, they are entitled to their opinion as much as we are entitled to choose to ignore them. Hubpages is like a gigantic library, and just like I do at my local one, I just ignore some of the shelves where I know I won't find anything interesting. Great topic, Sophia !.
austinhealy, you have, of course, got a very good point. That said, the reason I raised this topic was that there was someone who, as fast as she was banned, signed up again. Every single time she signed up, she would 'foflow' me and write reams of bible verses on my fan mail. When I wrote to HP about this, they said just to send her emails to spam. That was a bit difficult to do as her email kept changing, and it meant I had to keep going to my fanmail to delete her ramblings.
It also appears that the people who troll the most are the people who sign up without publishing any hubs and just coming here to make life unpleasant. Yes, of course, people can speak about religion if they like. I do, however, find it in extremely bad taste, and very, very aggressive.
Other sites implement a system whereby one has to be on the site for a certain period of time and demonstrate that they actually want to write something before socializing on the site. This does not preclude people who want to ask questions about the site - for which there is a section. It has nothing to do with judging the standard of writing so much as simply ensuring that they're here to write and not to troll, prosyletyze, or socialize...
That certainly would bother me too. Actually, it would probably infuriate me. But isn't there a feature that allows you to approve or not of incoming fan mail ? This being said I completely understand where you come from. There's nothing more annoying than been thrown unsolicited scriptures at, and I have had my share of that . I think what puzzles me most is that some people cannot be reasonable and open minded enough to realize that their used car salesman tactics makes life more difficult for everybody. They're just possessed, there is no word short of that. So I wish you to find a satisfactory solution and I will keep reading this interesting thread. Best of luck to you, Sophia.
austinhealy, thank you austinhealy.
Yes, of course, there is an approval button. The point is that it was coming so fast that I had to keep going there to either 'approve' or 'delete'. It wasn't a genuine fan but someone bent on getting me to Jesus by dumping her bible verses in my fan mail.
I got a lot less worried about online freedom to troll after had a cyber-stalker. Forums should actively delete uncivil behavior and ban those incapable or behaving in a civil manner. It is no different to having a bouncer throw out someone who rants crazily in a town meeting. They have the whole internet to troll, there is no reason to tolerate it here.
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