Should Hub Hopper writer-to-writer feedback/critique be possible?

1. 79

   Misfit Chickposted 11 years ago

   I'm fairy new to Hub Pages, but one of the things I really enjoy is reading through the Hub Hopper - you never know what topic is going to pop out at you OR how good or bad the next article will be, ha! But some of the really good ones could be even better with some good writer-to-writer feedback. For instance, sometimes a question pops into my mind that is probably something the author would liked to have answered within the subject, but didn't realize it was missing, etc. Or, other times - just a general (never mean) helpful critique could make so many of those good articles really good ones. What if there was some sort of anonymous way for Hub Writers to critique each other's work; and/or maybe give that as an option for Hub Authors if they want it, as opposed to Hubbers who don't. What are the possibilities?

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      Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Misfit Chick!
      Presently, the best means of giving another Hubber feedback is by leaving a comment or sending him or her an email (through the "send [username] an email" option of the Fan Mail tab of a user's profile; here's mine as an example: http://simonesmith.hubpages.com/#email)
      We have thought of making it possible for Hubbers to provide feedback through the Hub Hopper (and interestingly enough, admins can submit notes for review by other admins when calibrating our system), but we have not chosen to build it in to our present public Hub Hopper.
      
      For the most part, we have not done this because we are instead developing a more functional means of providing contextual feedback. Hopefully we'll be able to roll that out soon.
      
      That said, I'll bring up your suggestion in this week's community meeting!

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      1. 88

         Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I like hub hopping too, it helps to see what others are writing about so we don't oversaturate the subject, and some of the hubs are just good reading. But there isn't a lot of time to spend when you write alot yourself. If I have a suggestion, I just try to say it in a nice way as I hop. Something like, "This is an interesting topic, maybe you could add a few facts to make it longer (if it's too short) or "A few pictures would really add to this!" You can say things in a way so as not to hurt feelings. If you start contacting too many people via HP and they get your email address, you could get overwhelmed with mail from too many people, a big time waster.

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      2. 84

         Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Acknowledged, Jean Bakula!
         
         That said, we still think it will be more effective for us to implement a 'suggest an edit' mechanism that works on Hubs in all formats- not just via the Hub Hopper. Believe it or not, very, very few people actually hop Hubs!
         
         I hope we'll be able to roll this out soon. I so appreciate your interest in helping Hubbers improve their work and would love to provide you with tools that make it easier to do so.

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      IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Theoretically, what you suggest could work well.
      
      We all need feedback, but I guess that is what the comments section is for.
      
      Telling someone about spelling or grammatical errors can at present be done either through the author contact button, or through comments with the added criteria of 'please feel free to delete my comment'.
      
      Telling someone their information is plain wrong is another thing.
      
      I made the mistake of reading a hub that showed up on the 'related hubs' section of one of my hubs. I contacted the author (whose English was suspect) to point out the errors in his hub.
      He corrected them, and his hub now ranks above mine on Google.
      
      Mine is a 1500 word detailed article. His pushes 500 words and is totally lacking in information.
      
      I can see loads of cases where peer feedback would be helpful to new web authors, most relating to hub titles.
      
      There are some brilliant new authors emerging, but they need to learn how to title their hubs.

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      1. 88

         Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Poor Izzy,
         I would be upset too if I gave somebody advice and then they got a higher ranking than I did when I wrote better stuff on my work. Writing about my topics (I believe we can't say what on these forums, yes)?, you should see the bizarre things they put in my sidebar, "Maybe you would be interested in ..." which has nothing to do with what I wrote. I dislike that feature so much.

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2. 66

   relacheposted 11 years ago

   If you like doing detailed editing work for free, just go ahead and do it.  But don't suggest that it be built into the system here.

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3. 79

   Misfit Chickposted 11 years ago

   Thanks Simone, it's nice to know I'm not the only person who thought this would be a semi-good idea.
   
   And relache - I will make any suggestion I want to in here with the system or otherwise, thank you very much. I didn't say anything about 'detailed editing work' - but making a small suggestion easier without having to leave the page to go off and write a separate email is probably not something I'm likely to do. And, it doesn't take that much extra time to type a couple of feedback sentences.

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4. 70

   To Start Againposted 11 years ago

   I would love to see something like this. Maybe an editing option that hubbers and readers could use?
   If hubbers would like critique (serious critique, not just "good job, you're great at everything" stuff) then maybe they could check a box or something when publishing. Then if a reader from HP wants to offer critique or layout or editing advice, they could submit something to the hubbers email.
   
   It would be similar to putting a hub in the forum to be critiqued but it would be on the hub itself. I don't know how plausible it really is but I know I would love to use it. I have also wondered why we can't contact hubbers anymore? Were there too many problems with weirdos sending emails?

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5. 82

   WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

   Were this to happen, I would want authors to have an opt-in on whether to receive such messages or not. I already have sufficient email from Hubpages without having to deal with a deluge of "helpful" comments from wanna-be editors.

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      Jean Bakulaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, that's why the only way I would bother is if I'm hopping anyway, which I do from time to time. A suggestion to improve something obviously wrong doesn't hurt anyone. I also get deluged with email from people and don't want even more.

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6. 78

   psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

   I think it is best to leave a comment or send a message.

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7. 82

   WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

   Agreed. The extra effort involved in sending a message would restrict it to really serious matters. What I want to avoid is people bombarding me with "corrections" to my UK spelling or trying to impose usage of the Oxford comma and suchlike.

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8. 83

   Healthy Pursuitsposted 11 years ago

   I wouldn't suggest that any of it be anonymous,Misfit Chick. While you would be nice, there are nasties out there who would use it to be, well, nasty. Some folks are just that way. I think that leaving a comment in the hub would be ok to do gentle suggestions. But I'd tend to do that only if the writer had comments set to only when approved.

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   1. 78

      psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      And if you don't people trying to be nice and offer helpful critique will be attacked and cyber-stalked by nasty people who take any criticism as a personal attack.
      
      Easier to just not do it, IMHO.

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      1. 79

         Misfit Chickposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I think the benefits far outweigh the cyber-stalking - anyone can cyberstalk from anywhere. Maybe Hub writers who 'crique' should have to be at a certain entrusted 'rank' within Hubpages to ensure that peeps who are both semi-qualified and somewhat proven themselves in here. I know alot of writers hate critique - but, some of us could really use it, appreciate the help in honing our skills, and honestly - it's GOOD for writers to receive feedback. I understand that this is an available thing to do outside of the Hub Hopper. But having it handy in the Hub Hopper seems like it would be more helpful for us all.

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9. 70

   To Start Againposted 11 years ago

   Maybe it could be a service offered by hubpages. You can submit an article for critique and a group of hubbers picked by the staff will be given the job of critiquing your work. It could be an anonymous at random editor or you could pick one specifically? I don't know....

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10. 82

    WriteAngledposted 11 years ago

    Maybe the best way would be to have a closed forum, to which people could apply for membership. Those who are scared to publish without peer approval could post their draft hubs there and those who like submitting critiques could do so, while leaving the rest of us in peace.

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11. 78

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    It seems to me that we already have a subforum for that.

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12. 78

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    It is good for writers who sign up for it. 
    
    Unrequested critiquing, no matter how well meant, is a recipe for conflict.

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    1. 79

       Misfit Chickposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I would like to reiterate this from the original question: good writer-to-writer feedback. For instance, sometimes a question pops into my mind that is probably something the author would liked to have answered within the subject, but didn't realize it was missing, etc. Or, other times - just a general (never mean) helpful critique could make so many of those good articles really good ones.
       I wouldn't bother with the 'bad' ones. I suggested this because those of us who are serious writers in here usually WANT to know when something is wrong with what we've written.
       That's why I think it would be a good idea if it were a privilege to be earned in here based on Hubpage rank and/or if a person wants to provide feedback in this way.
       Putting it in the Hubber would make it easy for everyone - and again, if you're a bad writer I wouldn't worry about it. You won't get much mail, just low scores. I've only been inspired to do this with ALREADY GOOD writing that I wanted to help be better.
       Honest, responsible literary critiques (maybe there could be a monitor to make sure they are just that if you're all so such we can't be grown-ups) do not have to remind you of a sixth-grade playground argument.

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          calculus-geometryposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          You can always ask the author for more elaboration in the comments section.  If you encounter a hub in the Hopper and the comments section is inaccessible, copy and past the title into HP's search function and find the hub that way.

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13. 78

    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    My comments are moot as hubpages have already said what they will be doing.
    
    But I think the feelings my opinion generated actually demonstrate that sincerity and good intent are not always enough to cause a message to be received with open arms as just one person's opinion and attempt to be helpful.

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    TheKatsMeowposted 11 years ago

    I think it would be nice if a group of volunteers left feedback for new writers. Sometimes when I read through new hubs, I might see a problem or have an idea on how they can improve their work, but I just don't want to write it in the comments, I don't feel it's the right place and I don't want anyone to take my comments the wrong way. I might see things that a person can change, but that doesn't mean I am above getting critiqued. I wouldn't want to insult someone, when I was simply trying to help them out.

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15. 79

    Misfit Chickposted 11 years ago

    I can see how that would be a conflict... Now I wonder if there are Hubbers who read through articles in the Hub Hopper just to give lower ratings to good content, etc. I would imagine that's why our scores are based on a few different things. I guess I'm just not the competitive type. I think if all the writers on Hubpages could collectively improved their writing, that would only benefit Hubpages as a whole. And of course, writers who really want feedback can use the forum. Btw, I would leave feedback in the comments, but in *my* Hubhopper, I don't see them. I apparently have to go do a search for the article and then leave comments from there. Very inconvenient.

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       MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Those who purposely give lower ratings to good content will be "penalized". Their hopping scores won't be given very much weight in determining QAP scores. So basically those who do this are just wasting their time.

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