I received notification that my hub "How to Make the World's Best Scrambled Eggs" http://hubpages.com/food/How-to-Make-th … ambled-Egg is eligible to be moved to Delishably. However I have been advised by the moderator who reviewed my hub to get rid of my poetry and move it to it's own focussed hub.
Although I'd like my hub to be moved to a niche site I also think that my poem is one feature that makes this hub stand out from the run of the mill recipe hubs and is an integral part of the hub as it also describes the process of making the recipe. The hub has consistently been one of my best hubs in regard to traffic.
I would love feedback on what others think.
I absolutely love the poem! Though I'm trying to decide what advice to give. I really think the poem could do well as a stand alone piece! Then again, I agree it breaks up the monotony of your run of the mill recipe! I fear I have no help here Jodah! But I truly enjoyed the poem, as well as the hub! Hopefully others will weigh in and be more decisive than I!
Jodah, if the moderator has asked you to remove the poem and nothing else, then DON'T change ANYTHING ELSE about the Hub. If you mess with things the moderator hasn't asked you to mess with, it may not get moved.
I can see why the moderator wants you to remove the poem. People who are finding this Hub via the search engines just want a good recipe for scrambled eggs. You admit as much yourself by putting your poem at the beginning, saying they won't read it otherwise! But that's a bad strategy, because people are impatient and they are going to click back to the search results rather than scroll down. That's bad for your bounce rate.
Although I like the poem, I think it would be better to remove it.
It's a tough one but it really depends what you want from the Hub.
If you want it to earn some money for you, then it will probably do even better on Delishably - and it won't be moved to Delishably if you don't remove the poem.
The trouble is Marisa. They only want me to remove the poem, but if I do a lot of the remaining text won't make sense so I'd have to remove or change everything pertaining to my reason for writing the hub and all reference to the poem. Everything except the actual recipe. You are right that if I want to increase earnings by having it at a niche site I should do everything required to get it there. However my other hubs that were moved only got increased traffic for about a week before reverting to normal.
People can read it or not, maybe you could compromise and put the poem nearer the end for those who don't want to be bothered with poetry. I love the idea of having poems in articles and have done it lots but it does seem HP never has. Got to please yourself John!
Well Bro, they are two different genres and I would have to agree with Hub Pages here. Unusual for me, as even my bones are creative, and yours is a creative piece.
Your title and first picture suggests a recipe:
How to Make the World's Best Scrambled Eggs
I would write something in prose about eggs extolling their virtues. Begin with a strong story, perhaps having breakfast at a Cafe and leading quickly into how you got the idea for the recipe. You may also flow logically into the recipe.
I would remove the poem. It's very good and could even hint in prose, at the bottom of the poem, about how useful a recipe can be using these ideas. But yes, keep them separate. Recipes are generally just that, and Hub Pages spent some time on trying to create these 'specialised' areas.
So remove the poem; add some 'spicy' additional prose to gradually flow into the recipe, and who knows, it may even be better still. Use only recipe orientated shots.
One advantage is that you will end up with two separate and popular Hubs.
H,i manatita. I appreciate your advice, especially like me you are a creative writer first and foremost. The problem is that you advise me to add some spicy prose or begin with a story extolling the virtues of the recipe etc. well I feel that my poem does that...how is a story (also creative writing) any different from a poem which is still on topic and actually tells how to make the recipe anyway? That's the part I have trouble understanding..why is information provided in poetic form treated differently than the same info in prose?
I totally agree Bro, and at the end of the day the decision is yours to make. The problem is that others can see them as having two different functions. I call it a poem, you call it a poem; others call it a poem. Some are seeing a recipe and a poem. Not that they are good or bad, just two different roles, if you like.
You must do what feels best though. Again, I was trying to serve a bit more in the sense that should you remove the poem, it would leave your recipe weaker. In which case, you will have space to add something to make the recipe even more interesting. Bill has ideas on this.
Still, if your very core is against this, do what feels best. I do not know that it is useful to go against one's conscience, although you must decide whether or not, if it is a subtle form of challenge between you and the creators of the site.
You asked for feedback, and I've supplied mines, that's all.Go with what feels best for Jodah.
Took a look, and I loved your hub just as it is! If it's performing well -- getting a lot of traffic -- it just could be the uniqueness of the recipe, poem, et.all, that is setting it apart from all the generic recipes like HP seems to want to turn it into.
I've been here over 5 years and I've seen them try different things, some of which didn't work so well. I'll be honest, if it were me, and I was getting satisfactory traffic for one of my hubs, I wouldn't change it.
I have a few recipes that include stories about how they originated. One of them is my highest ever performing hub. No one has asked me to change it in order to become more generic, and it was moved to a niche without changing so much as a comma. It gets around 200 views a day as is and that really didn't change with the move. Can't say any of the articles of mine that have been moved to niche sites are doing any better than they ever did.
I know I'm swimming against the tide here, but if it were me, I wouldn't change a thing unless I felt I could improve it. In short, I wouldn't remove the poem or turn it into' just another generic scrambled egg recipe.' I think your scrambled eggs hub is great as is and the poem only adds personality that some of us appreciate. Too bad that doesn't include some moderators.
It all boils down to why you write in the first place. Does making another 5-10¢ a day matter -- IF that would be the result of changing your hub? No guarantees that it will. But it's a whopping $3.65 a year IF you do get another dime a day by letting them move it.
I vote that you leave it with all of its great personality, but the decision is yours to make for the reasons that matter most to you.
Thank you Au fait your your confirmation. That was exactly how I was thinking. I guess I had just been a little jealous of others saying they had had 20 or 30 hubs moved to niche sites when I had only three. As you say the extra money it would bring would be negligible anyway. That isn't my purpose for writing here, I do that elsewhere. I wrote the hub around the poem and didn't just add it so I feel it is what makes the hub unique. Taking note of the majority of the feedback so far, I am going to leave it as is. It is just a case of moderators having tunnel vision as far as anything creative is concerned.
Oh, please just keep it the way it is for I know you are a creative writer and the combo is what makes it so special and creatively done.
If you separate them, they would not be the same, especially being the poem is written for the recipe and vice versa.
I've written a couple of recipes with short stories (kind of like dinner and movie idea), and they are both very popular with views into the thousands, but then I do have just one regular cake recipe with views over 6,000...but I really do not enjoy posting recipe hubs, although they do so well. I have just one other recipe hub with a Thanksgiving dish where I included a little family background where I got the recipe from and it is also very popular. Still, I did not join HubPages to write recipes, but really to share how the sweet Lord has moved powerfully in my life in telling of my true life events, and then I will throw in some other creative stories and poetry (based on real life) for good measure.
I wouldn't dream of separating my two short story/recipe hubs because the stories are part of my creative effort when writing them in the first place, if that makes any sense.
I was surprised and delighted that a couple of my hubs were chosen for the niche sites, and that I didn't have to change one thing on them, as I would have not appreciate that ...except maybe a link or something, then that would be okay.
Thank you so much or your kind words and advice, Faith. I made a decision which is somewhat a compromise. I couldn't bring myself to remove the poem, so I moved it to the end of the hub. I did feel the hub was really nothing without it so couldn't bring myself to remove it. As you say, I am a creative writer, not a recipe writer. Thanks again for the support.
So I guess that means you decided not to have it moved to the niche site?
It was a tough decision, Glenn. I may submit it again with the change I made, but I don't expect it to be accepted. I will just use this as a learning lesson for future hubs I publish. If I deleted the poem from this hub I feel I would be compromising my beliefs.
John, if you remove your poem then they have destroyed, your beautiful piece of work and it no longer the unique work of art that your poem turned it into. The moderator that requested that you change it does not know beans about writing.
I am sorry but that is just my opinion. I love it the way it was originally, and the choice is your no mine.
Blessings my friend.
Thank you for your kind and supportive comment, Shyron. I did make a compromise by moving the poem to the end of the hub but I will not delete it. I may resubmit it for consideration but really I don't care if it moves to a niche site or not. I feel I have compromised my beliefs just by doing that. Blessings.
You don't need to resubmit it for consideration, the moderator will either move it or they won't now you've changed it.
It sounds like this experience has helped clarify what your objectives are: if you know that you write for yourself and for other Hubbers, then you have no need of the niche sites and can politely decline any suggestions for changes in future.
Marisa, I was actually told in the email to make the changes and then resubmit it for consideration (which I have done). Yes, this has helped define my objectives. The only reason I was even worried about having hubs moved to the niche sites was in case the mother site would eventually become defunct, not for dollars or increased views. This forum has actually quadrupled my usual weekly views though.
Yes, that would be my concern too. I still cannot see the logic of keeping the "mother site" alive, except as a place for us to post the Hubs as a first step, before they're vetted and transferred - in which case it would be more sensible for all the Hubs on the mother site to be unFeatured. After all if they're judged not good enough for the niche sites then they shouldn't be on the mother site either!
I just received an email from HubPages after resubmitting this article with the poem moved to the end. Originally they said if I removed the poem it would be suitable for Delishably.
The email says basically "Your hub has been reviewed and, unfortunately, found to be unsuitable for Delishably.......blah blah blah" then goes on to say, perhaps the reason is that the hub..."is about a very general topic that is already extensively covered on Delishably or elsewhere online. Perhaps you can add a new spin on the topic to make it your own. If your article is a popular (e.g., chocolate chip cookies) recipe, adding gorgeous, original, step-by-step photos is a great way to make it stand out from the rest."
This time the poem wasn't even mentioned. I realise this was probably a genetic message sent to most people whose hub is unsuccessful for a niche site, but still..
I thought that was exactly what I was doing by including the poem, and it does have all original photos. Oh well, I just thought this was funny and would keep you all updated on the progress. No Delishably for me
If the hub is still producing good views, I would not sweat it. If it is declining in views, then I would be concerned.
My thinking has been on a different issue (link that was not approved of) Small minds in small cages produce small results. However, I moved my hub from a niche site to my blog. It has not done well there, but I am stubborn if nothing else.
I think the poem at the end is a nice touch. If people don't want to read it, they can so choose. The meat (or eggs) of the recipe appears above it and that's what counts. You've got over 200 comments, so obviously readers love it!
Are you going to keep it where it is or take HP's suggestion to have it moved?
Shauna, I am leaving it where it is. I moved it from the top to bottom so people had a choice, but I will not compromise any further. HP originally said it was an "awesome hub" and would be accepted if I removed the poem. If I had just done that the other text wouldn't have made sense. Now they say it may have been like a lot of other hubs on the same subject and not unique enough...go figure. Delishably can do without me. The hub is popular anyway.
I love scrambled eggs; I love that you make great scrambled eggs (I didn't say that mine are great), and I love that you wrote a poem about them. I LOVE the poem.
What I don't love is recipe hubs that simply say "break 2 eggs, whip, pour into the pan, and cook over medium heat until firm." YAWN.
I usually tell a story, or a share a bit of history with my food hubs (...I have over 200). Perhaps just reformatting--move or remove the photos that accompany the poem, format so that the text is single-spaced, move to the right side of the page, and highlight with gray or blue background.
So, your poem will stand for those who love poetry, but for the neanderthals who don't...no major distractions.
What do you think?
That is great advice, Carb Diva. The reason I like your recipe hubs is that you make them interesting by including a backstory. I can't see how that is any different to including a poem and especially as this one also tells you how to prepare the scrambled eggs. Glad you like it. I guess I could try moving it to the right, singled spaced in blue like I have with the "boneless chicken" one. I doubt if it would be selected then for Delishably, but it may be worth a try. Thanks.
Personally, I like it the way it is. Maybe HP knows better though.
My experience with hubs move to niche sits has been the opposite of yours; they do not take off right away, but over time they gain traffic.
FYI, Your video link to Paul McCartney singing "Scambled Eggs" does not work.
I left a comment on your hub. Both the poem and the recipe have equal weights in my eyes, and would benefit from being in their own category. Consequently I have to agree with the moderator. However, if there is a way you can strike a compromise, then do.
The Mod asked me to remove a Mexican Saying about food on a Mexican rice recipe Hub. Your poem and video gives your page some of your own personality, but....they do not want those light moments.
I am willing to do what is asked and besides maybe the search engines, or Google, reserves frivolity for private websites and blogs. They added a brief at the bottom for the "saying" suggestion, but they also used generic paragraphs, that suggested using the recipe modules, not using Italics, or extra bold lettering, using the rating mod and no extra photos that do not relate.
So I removed a jar of an ingredient and a pic of the a sayings book. Now it pretty much looks like anybody in the world wrote the page. I hope yours is okay and I hope mine is okay.
Thanks for sharing that Paperfacets. You have to do what you feel right. I feel a little humour can improve almost any piece of writing and make it a more enjoyable read (even a recipe or how to fix a starter motor) so I think I will leave it as is. One day Google, and then HP will come to realise that.
Jodah, you could take a snip or screenshot of the poem and include it as an image.
Okay, so here's my thoughts on this. First of all, I have to say that both the recipe and the poem are great. But with that said, you have to think in terms of writing for the reader, not for yourself.
No hub is going to make it to a niche site if it's written to satisfy your own desire. Or your own ego. Or whatever.
Of course you like your poem and you want to share it. I get that! But the reader fell upon your hub because they were searching for a scrambled egg recipe. You need to deliver on that promise, or else Google will eventually lower your ranking as their bots detect that people click away real fast.
Have you looked at your "view duration" in your stats on that hub? I bet you'll see that it's very short. That would indicate that people did not get what they wanted. They did not want a poem. They wanted a scrambled egg recipe.
I read this hub two months ago, as you can see from the comment I left at that time. I read all the way through as I mentioned, and got the best of both versions (recipe and poem). I'm thinking that most Hubbers will do the same thing, reading both - because that's what we do for fellow Hubbers. So your stats might actually show a long duration if the majority of your traffic is from hubpages. But organic traffic is what counts for revenue and further SEO success. So the focus needs to be on those readers.
You can make money with your writing. You can get more of your hubs moved to niche sites. You write well. The only thing you need to change is the way you have a purpose of satisfying yourself. Your purpose should be to write for your reader.
Remove the poem and publish it under the poem topic. I had two poems moved to a niche site. They do have a home for them too. You can have your cake and eat it too. Or in this case, have your egg and poetic creativity too.
Thanks, Glenn. You do make some very valid points that I need to consider. View duration is blank **** but it's like that on all my hubs as far as I know.
Blank view duration (still collecting data) means that there is not enough data to register anything more than a quick exit. That was my point. If you see that on all your hubs, that's not good news.
You really need to rethink your way of writing for yourself and realign your focus on the reader. And I mean readers who came to you because they saw a title in the SERP listing that attracted them to your hubs in the first place. Evidently they are disappointed for some reason and leaving quickly as your blank view duration is indicating.
It's not because you write poorly. That's not so. You are a good writer. But you have to understand that you make a promise with your title and you don't deliver on that promise.
Remember that the logic of what I'm saying only applies to organic traffic. Hubbers who know you will be pleased to read what you write about, as do I. But that's not how people coming from search engines think. They don't know you. And they don't know what you are talking about when you refer to other Hubbers. They get lost and they leave. Your present way of writing is for yourself and for other Hubbers, but that's not going to bring any earnings. And that's what HubPages wants for the niche sites.
See my point? You've got what it takes. You do! You just need to refocus your efforts.
Yes, Glenn. i do see your point and I appreciate it. You are right, I do write for other hubbers (my followers) and ultimately myself. I have never been worried about the earning aspect or writing for search engine traffic. Almost all my traffic comes from Hubpages, Pinterest or Facebook.I know "I can do it", it is just a matter of changing the way I view writing here and my mindset. I need to delete all reference to "hubs and hubbers" in my writing for a start if they are to be suited to the niche sites.
I will contemplate this for a few days and see what I decide to do.
Totally awesome Hub, im so making some eggs with this info
Just adding my two cents, but any sort of creativity seems to be frowned upon on the "niche" sites. They really need to get a handle on what humans read for enjoyment, because dry and voiceless really isn't what turns readers on.
They take out exactly the sort of bits of personality that magazine editors encourage writers to include. And no, humanity isn't turning into a humorless horde that only wants facts without any hint of personality attached to them, so writing without a voice is not the wave of the future.
Thanks for adding your two cents worth, Kylyssa. You have the same mindset as me on that. I have been trying to add some creative writing to everything I write whether a "how to" or "recipe" or "informational hub" whatever. You really do need to inject personality or humour into articles to make them a pleasure to read and to stand out from the mundane. One day the Internet gods will realise that.
If you walked into a store wanting to buy a television and the sales assistant forced you to wait while he entertained you with a song, would you be enchanted by the song or irritated at being forced to be their audience?
I guess you might be entertained, but the average person would be irritated (unless the assistant had asked if it was OK first).
In this Hub, you don't ask if it's OK - you force the reader, who just wants a recipe for eggs, to read the poem. The quality or otherwise of the poem is irrelevant - they didn't sign up for a poem and they don't want one.
For that reason, I'd say that when the poem was at the start of the Hub, then the Hub should've been put in the Creative Writing section even if it did have a recipe in it - because it's not what your reader wants.
I get your point, Marisa. yes, I would personally enjoy it if a shop assistant sang a song (depending on their singing ability) and it could actually convince me to buy the tv from them. If they had a really bad voice I may complete the sale quickly to stop them Most people really do want something a little different, and even if they are looking for a scrambled egg recipe (of which there are thousands..and almost all virtually the same) I feel they would appreciate something a little outside the norm. I for one appreciate anyone who makes the effort to add some uniqueness to their writing. Even with poetry .. I prefer it if the writer adds an introduction or prolog, or adds extras to the hub, rather than just a poem. Anyway, the poem is now at the end of the hub, so readers can easily choose not to read it.
This hub has now had more than double the amount of views as my best performing hub on a niche site and was published a year later.
You may have more views than your best performing hub but you already confirmed a few days ago that most of those views are clicking away right away (no recorded view duration). So there must be a reason for losing your audience.
I know you said you'd rather not compromise your beliefs and you're not focused on writing for the reader, and that is your choice. We already know your high view count is from your many followers and not from organic traffic that would bring in revenue.
Marisa just clarified, with a good example, what I was trying to say a while back. You made your decision. You made it clear that you are not in it for the money, as most writers hope to do. And that's fine if that is what you want.
Thanks again, Glenn. I make most of my money from elsewhere on the Internet as a ghost writer etc. I would have to write a lot of hubs on subjects that don't interest me to generate enough income to make anything worthwhile. The subjects I have expertise in (chiefly Permaculture) don't seem to be popular with either hub pages or the wider Internet audience.
If it is a hub about a poem, rather than hub abut a recipe, maybe it goes wherever poetry hubs go.
So what did you decide, Jodah? I looked at your hub and it's one of the most creative and original ways I've seen anyone present a recipe. I definitely see how the recipe and poem are intertwined to the point where removing the poem would negatively alter your intent and creative license. I actually think it's great but from the moderators point of view, that may be the problem.
IMO, they want to tighten articles up to fit one niche site or another. Remember their goal: to get hubs in line with HP's expectations (quality criteria, categorization) to increase traffic. Your creative skills rise above that norm. They also may see it as too conversational with the HP community which precludes a wider audience (although you've confirmed that good traffic to this hub shows that readers do come for the recipe). Another thing I noticed at the end is the conversation about categories, poetry being not popular, etc, may be seen by HP moderator as not informative to the general public outside of HP. That conversation also steers away from the recipe.
Solution: Don't remove the poem, don't change a thing, submit another article.
Hi, Jan. Originally the poem was at the top of the hub. My compromise was to move it to the end, because of the opinion that readers who just wanted a recipe would not want to read a poem.
I agree with you that some of the hub could be seen as too conversational with the HP community and I have removed references to certain other hubbers and reference to the word "hub" although some still remains. Funny thing is the moderator only wanted the poem remove and nothing else changed. If I had done that most of the other text apart from the actual recipe would not have made sense.
Also in regard to wanting to tighten articles to fit one category or another.. I can understand that, however, other people have said they had recipe hubs moved to Delishably that include a story as well as the recipe. Once again, I ask...why differentiate between a fiction story and a poem?
Thanks for all the kind words about my hub. I honestly don't care if it doesn't go to a niche site. I will write other hubs in future that may meet the criteria better.
I may have been more inclined to turn the poem into a seperate poetry hub if more than one out of around 150 poetry hubs of mine had been chosen for the niche creative writing site.
It's mostly difficult to write "what you love" AND make money.
The other domain is where you'll potentially make the most money - and to do that you have to follow the guidelines/advice by a moderator.
So you choose: keep the poem because you're writing for love and "it's all about the creativity and personality", or remove it because "I need the money and earning an income from writing is my goal".
Few people have the luxury of both.
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