In a Headlock With a Moderator?

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  1. ologsinquito profile image83
    ologsinquitoposted 8 years ago

    Right now, it feels as if I'm in a headlock with one moderator, over one product capsule.

    Team Hub Pages suggested I post here for suggestions on improving my hub with the most traffic. it was recently edited and several product capsules were removed. Then I put them back in. Then it was unfeatured again. Then I put one back in. Now it's not featured once more.

    The one product capsule I have needs to stay, for reasons I won't get into here. It just does. I am not being difficult or stubborn.

    Hub Pages has forced me into a tough position. I would consider moving this hub and putting it onto one of my own sites. But it's also copied. This happened recently, and I haven't had a chance to file a DMCA.

    The email I received said to put my hub here, for feedback and suggestions. Here it is. http://hubpages (dot) com/health/Enablers-Help-the-Narcissist-Get-Away-With-It

    I would like to get this hub featured again, with that one capsule. I don't think this is asking a lot. This hub was written nearly two years ago, long before Hub Pages started limiting product capsules.

    I think this is something that needs to be brought out into the open, especially since new writers are signing up and starting to publish. If this is how things are, I don't possibly see how Hub Pages is going to survive very much longer.

    1. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image86
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Nobody can see this hub if it is unfeatured.

    2. WrenchWench profile image92
      WrenchWenchposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not sure if your hub has been changed since this post, but I'm only seeing the one amazon module. It's clear that your hub has more than 750 words to it, which is generally what HP asks before any sales mods are used. I'm not really sure what the problem is. Has HP or the moderator given you a reason that one capsule cannot stay? Or is your complaint that they won't allow you to have more than one cap?

      If it's the former, I agree that it would be unfair not to allow you the one cap, as you have a high enough word count for it and it's tastefully used. If it's the latter, I agree with Calculus >> Write MORE. I don't see any personal stories in there, from you or from someone you know directly. There's a small blurb about why you prefer to be "educated" about the disease, but nothing more than that. Full personal stories are great to add to hubs like these, and in this case, it's especially important because you said in the hub that your authority on the subject is based on personal experience and self education.

      I also only see two reasons "why" people become enablers, and there are certainly more reasons than that. Heck, even if you want to stand on the "only two reasons" soap box, explain in a third paragraph, why you believe there are only two reasons. I also only see two sections outlining environments where enablers/narc's have to deal with each other. What about in a family? The dynamics there could give you a lot more content.

      I also see a lot more potential for tips on "how to support the target". I'm sure "true friends" could think of much more to do. In following with Calculus's thought, you could make a whole new module about how the book helped you and what you learned in it's pages, how it helped you with your own real life narc's and enablers, etc... Have that mod, would look much less awkward than the one you currently have and boost sales of the book you want to sell, as it will look like a personal review and referral to the book, instead of just a cool book you found and are attempting to off handly sell to readers. People ignore random sales hubs. They actually consider the ones that are personal referrals from the author that aren't all salesy.

      Adding much more to your hub will make it more interesting and it will give you greater access to using sales hubs if you really feel it's necessary. Personally, I think what HP currently allows, works well. It's prevents new and old writers alike from abusing them or relying on them.

      Also, as a side note... I would remove the text that talks about your amazon affiliates participation. It muddy's the rest of the article because it makes it look like you wrote it to sell affiliate products, and not because you were really passionate about the subject. It cheapens the whole thing and really isn't necessary to say. It also won't protect your amazon capsules.

      Also, this is more of a personal opinion, but whenever someone says that they have a problem and ask for help, but they aren't willing to share what their position is or reason for needing to have something their way, says to outsiders that there is something to hide. Even if the real issue is not bad, no one can no that and since we are all virtual strangers, it'll be rare for anyone to just give you the benefit of the doubt. Some will, but most will think that if you've got a reason to hide your motivations, then there is a bigger reason to side with HP than with you. Just a thought,

      Anyways, hope some of these tips have helped.

      You also might try writing a few new hubs that can be companions to this one that highlight more specific sub topics. Things like, "5 ways to deal with a narcissist at work" or something like that. Then you can use sales caps in those new articles and still be within the rules.

      1. ologsinquito profile image83
        ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        I have no nefarious motivations here. I just want this one capsule to stay and I want some answers from HubPages. Does everyone have to jump through these same hoops to have one product capsule in their hub? I don't think so. The bigger issue is why this is happening.

        I don't think I need to share absolutely everything in a public forum. Please give me the benefit of the doubt.

        I've written about 20 or 25 companion hubs filled with personal experience. I really don't feel like reworking this one hub, just to have one product capsule inserted.

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image86
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

        The rule is 300 words in a capsule, not 750 per article, in order to have an Amazon capsule.  I do think, though, that they also look at the total word number.  Perhaps the writer needs to simply count the words in that particular capsule?

    3. moonlake profile image80
      moonlakeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I sure don't understand why the amazon book is causing so much trouble. I see books all the time on hubs and they never explain why the book is there. The book matches up with what the hub is about. I know I have put books on my hubs and never talk the book or what it's about. Most books we put on from Amazon we haven't read. They match the subject. Your book matches what your hub is about. I don't understand the problem with it.

  2. profile image0
    calculus-geometryposted 8 years ago

    Write more about how the book helped you and why it is a good resource for others with the same problem.

    I know that you have probably seen featured hubs with lots of products just randomly sprinkled about hither and thither, and it is ridiculous how unevenly HP applies the rules.  Nevertheless, writing more about the specific product and how it ties into your content usually helps hubs pass, and it is always good for the reader. Best of luck with it.

    PS - your hub would look much better if you removed the unnecessary bolding.

    1. ologsinquito profile image83
      ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks calculus-geometry. That is something I might try. I just added the bolding today. I do it on my own sites for skim readers. Maybe it doesn't fly at HubPages.

  3. AliciaC profile image92
    AliciaCposted 8 years ago

    It's a great hub, ologsinquito, and I appreciate the information that you've shared in it, as I said when I commented on the article. It's an information hub, though, not a product hub. There seems to be only one sentence in the hub that refers to the book. I suspect that if you want to keep the Amazon capsule you're going to have to review the book. The problem is that this will change the nature of the article. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

    1. ologsinquito profile image83
      ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Alicia, Thank you for your input. I added more information about the book, and why people need to learn more about malignant narcissism. I don't think I should have to change the whole focus of the article. I believe I should be able to keep this one product capsule. Before this article was edited, I had three or four product capsules. They didn't seem to hurt traffic. I am hoping that someone from Hub Pages will actually step in and help stop this bullying behavior. If not, then this speaks volumes.

  4. Will Apse profile image88
    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    How many times has a reader used that ad to buy a book?

    1. ologsinquito profile image83
      ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Will, that would be impossible to say. But I can tell you I've sold lot of books on malignant narcissism. It's probably the single thing I sell the most of.

      1. Will Apse profile image88
        Will Apseposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        HP needs to get Amazon ad use data. Then it needs to get rid of ads that readers never use. Subjective decisions help no one.

        1. ologsinquito profile image83
          ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          This whole thing is ridiculous, considering that so many people have multiple product capsules on their hubs. I am very disappointed with Hub Pages.

  5. profile image0
    calculus-geometryposted 8 years ago

    Here is an example of a featured hub about narcissism with Amazon capsules used correctly per HP's advice … Book-Picks

    The author does a good job explaining each book in depth and gives readers the kind of info they are looking for in a book recommendation.  I know it's a lot more work to incorporate Amazon capsules this way, but it is "safer" than trying to stick them in with only a brief mention.  You can try the latter approach, but it's risky and sometimes you end up on the radar of a mod who's a real stickler.  I sympathize with you.

  6. ologsinquito profile image83
    ologsinquitoposted 8 years ago

    Thanks calculus-geometry, I appreciate your response. I still think it's okay to include one product that's related to my article, without making this the focus of my article. I can't be bothered with major rewrites at this point, because I'm much more interested in building up my own sites. If the moderator doesn't budge, I'll probably just let this hub remain non featured. I've decided that the best course of action is to accelerate my efforts to remove my articles from Hubpages.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image85
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You may have had a response from one moderator, but that moderator has no control over whether or not the Hub passes QAP.  So don't start thinking it's some kind of vendetta.

      I don't think you need to change the focus of the article BUT if you include a book in a Hub, it's absolutely critical to say why that particular book will be helpful to your readers, and not some other random book on the same subject.  It doesn't have to be a big review but you do have to say something.

  7. Will Apse profile image88
    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    People are less likely to get upset if HP has solid data.

    My guess is that a mod looked at the rather crude Amazon data that  it does have and concluded users did not use the ad much.

    Or they read ologsinquito's page and concluded that he does not say enough about the book and why someone might be interested in it to justify an ad.

    If they did neither of those things, something is wrong.

  8. notnym profile image83
    notnymposted 8 years ago

    I feel I am experiencing the same. I've a 1400 hub, have been told to remove product boxes and also restricted down to just two amazon links. I'm still being told my Hub is spammy.

    Not happy at all and seriously considering moving away from Hubpages at the moment.

    1. Marisa Wright profile image85
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The main criteria for Amazon capsules is that the product has to be directly related to the Hub topic, and they are really strict about that.  A couple of examples.   

      If you write a Hub about sewing a skirt, you can't advertise a sewing machine - that's too general, and not sufficiently related to the subject.  You could advertise a recommended skirt pattern, or a chalk hem marker - both needed to make the skirt.

      If you've written a Hub that's a slow cooker recipe, you might not even be allowed to advertise a slow cooker - because someone searching for that recipe would already have one.  If you mention a particular utensil or gadget that's required for the recipe, that would be fine.

  9. EricDockett profile image95
    EricDockettposted 8 years ago

    Here's a little exercise to put this all in perspective. This isn't necessarily directed at the OP, but anybody, including HP staff.

    In fact, especially HP staff.

    Go to Hubs, change the view to Latest and start clicking through the topics and reading some of the newly published Hubs. I honestly have no idea what's there right now, but I feel confident in guessing it won't take long until you find a published, Featured Hub that is kinda "not so great", to put it kindly. Maybe, among other questions, you'll even ask yourself how in the world it passed QAP.

    So, if this "editor" digs in her heels and refuses to pass Ologsinquito's Hub that gets 1,500 visitors per day, HubPages is literally swapping a very popular Hub which search engines obviously love for a "not so great" Hub that very probably will never get any traffic at all. Ologsinquito's Hub is out, as far as search engines are concerned, and this new "not so great" Hub is in.

    If this happens over and over, as it seems to be, it has the very real effect of gradually and insidiously altering the overall profile of this site, not only in the eyes of readers but for any panda bears who happen to be watching. Is that really what HP wants? Because that is way, way more damaging than allowing a few Amazon capsules some editor decides they don't agree with.

    Tightening up the rules is fine, but there needs to be some logic applied here. It can't be as simple how many words per product or automatically kicking out sales capsules that don't convert, or the opinion of some editor who is not even the creator of the content.

    To me, a writer who has proven they are capable of creating a Hub that gets 1500+ visits a day is an asset to this site, and should not be bullied into changing their content. Draw your own conclusions.

    1. notnym profile image83
      notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I get around 320 a day on one hub. Not loads, but not little.

      But then I see a featured hub which is peppered all over with Amazon capsules yet remains. In my mind that's the real problem. Not people like me linking to a couple of genuine products and then being moaned at.

      There seems to be a real lack of continuity in the way some mods are behaving.

      1. EricDockett profile image95
        EricDockettposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        What matters is what search engines think is a problem. If that Hub peppered with Amazon links is getting a thousand visitors per day via search then it's not a problem.

        The bottom line is that people need to understand their subjects and apply sales capsules appropriately. When they don't do that, HP creates sweeping rules to address everyone. Writers like Ologsinquito, who know their subjects and have obviously created content that search engines like, get caught in the wash. That's bad for the whole site.

        1. notnym profile image83
          notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Fair enough. Makes sense.

      2. Marisa Wright profile image85
        Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Ah, but those Hubs have probably not gone through QAP.

        QAP is a relatively recent innovation.  Hubs that have been created or edited since then, have gone through QAP.  All the older ones haven't.

    2. moonlake profile image80
      moonlakeposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I agree.

  10. ologsinquito profile image83
    ologsinquitoposted 8 years ago

    Miarisa, are your sure it's not one moderator making this call? I'm not. Here is part of the email I received - "A moderator made the following suggestion for your Hub:
    Remove the product capsule." This is what leads me to believe it's a human moderator who reviewed my hub, and this is why it isn't featured. This appears to be the only reason it's not featured. I've received multiple emails from Hub Pages, each time this happened.

    At this point, I appreciate everyone's suggestions and help. But I'm not sure focusing on this one book is going to be worth my time and effort, as I don't really believe I have much of a future here, because I'm not sure about the long-term viability of this platform. So I'll probably just leave it not featured.

    1. notnym profile image83
      notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm having the same feeling. I set up my own Wordpress blog on my own hosting account very easily and very cheaply. I get to decide what I advertise, I get to decide how many times I advertise.

      1. ologsinquito profile image83
        ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Hi notnym, it really is so easy to get a Wordpress blog up and running, and it's not that expensive either. There's also a lot of support available.

        1. notnym profile image83
          notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I got an account with - 10GB free - which includes one database. Wordpress installed from an app within the control panel (using that one database) and the domain name cost me £10 for two years. So the whole thing was £10.

    2. Marisa Wright profile image85
      Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So, I assume you've edited it again (i.e. changed one or two words) to send it through QAP again? 

      If not, try it and then see.

      What the email means is that a moderator looked at the Hub and that was his/her opinion on why it had been rejected.  It doesn't mean he/she made the decision to unFeature.

      1. ologsinquito profile image83
        ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Marisa, I've done that a few times, adding more content about the book, and nothing has changed. At this point I'm just going to be moving things off this site. Do you think I can still file  DCMA on this hub even if it's not featured?

        1. Marisa Wright profile image85
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, you definitely can - even though it's not featured, it's still visible to anyone with the link.

          1. ologsinquito profile image83
            ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks Marisa, that was my main concern with it not being featured.

        2. Marisa Wright profile image85
          Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          I just took another look at that Hub and while you've added some info on the book, the information is not in the capsule!!     It's not even next to the book, it's right at the end of the Hub - I suspect the moderator is seeing the unqualified capsule and not even bothering to continue to read, so they don't see your addition.

          Click on "add a description" in the capsule and paste your paragraph about the book into the capsule itself, then see what happens (as I say, it will look better full-width with the description).

          Also, check your link to the Church Bullies site.  When I click on that link, it goes to a page with posts about religious matters, not about narcissim at all - which makes it an irrelevant link and not allowed.  That might be what's been causing the problem all along.  You need to find the specific post about bullying to link to.

          You also still have your disclosure statement at the bottom.   Silly though it sounds, I've seen similar statements cause problems - you don't need it on the Hub, just add it to your profile instead.

  11. ologsinquito profile image83
    ologsinquitoposted 8 years ago

    It's such a small price to start a business. I also invested in a few other things, such as professionally designed logos and a paid keyword research tool. But I still spent so little.

  12. Will Apse profile image88
    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    Any page getting more than a hundred views a day from Google should be immune to mods interference or QAP unfeaturing.

    HP need to start getting this kind of thing right.

    1. notnym profile image83
      notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Well I made changes (again) to my hub. About the 8th time in 4 days.

      They will won't return it to featured status.

      I'm not posting any new content on Hubpages until this problem of heavy-handed and unreasonable moderation is sorted.

      1. Marisa Wright profile image85
        Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

        Notnym, you still have links that look like this:

        http:// www. amazon. co. uk/gp/product/B00F1DNYPE/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=B00F1DNYPE&linkCode=as2&tag=commtotheblue-21

        There's a lot of unnecessary code in that link, and HubPages' automated filters will catch it and think it's suspicious.  If you use Wordpress, you'll find it will sometimes strip those links as suspicious too (which is very annoying and why it's best to use an Amazon plugin with Wordpress, rather than paste your own links).

        The best way to get around it is either (a) join the HP Amazon program and use their capsules instead or (b) join Skimlinks and use their link generator.   In both cases you'll get a higher % commission which will more than compensate for them taking a fee. 

        The other alternative is to strip down the code yourself - get rid of all that "creative" gunk and just leave the product link and your affiliate code.

        1. notnym profile image83
          notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          OK thanks. I'll give that a go.

          1. Marisa Wright profile image85
            Marisa Wrightposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The advantage of Skimlinks is that their payout threshold is only $10 and they pay 8% on Amazon purchases.  You can't add the Skimlinks code to your HubPages account, obviously, but you can use their link generator to create individual links which you can paste in. 

            I don't know why Amazon creates such peculiar links.  For a big internet company they are often oddly behind the times in their methods!

            1. ologsinquito profile image83
              ologsinquitoposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              I'm happy to report my hub is featured again. Even though my main focus is my own sites, this one was getting a fair amount of traffic. It's probably lost its Google ranking with the non featuring, but it gets a lot of social media attention. Going forward, I hope HubPages will put some safeguards in place before deciding to pull the plug on a hub that was getting thousands of hits the day it was killed.

            2. notnym profile image83
              notnymposted 8 years agoin reply to this

              This worked. Thanks. My hub is now featured again.

              For the record Amazon does offer a shortened link in the code. You just need to use the down arrow on the product link and select "shortened version".


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