Working the System

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  1. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    I have been doing a lot of exploring today, checking out Squidoo at Nelle Hoxie's suggestion and... Well, bumming around. Frankly, getting increasingly confused. I don't like to be confused, so I am asking for some help from my fellow hubbers.

    I want to "hub" my hubs. I need a way to create a central "arena" if you will, where all of my articles can easily be found (published here, Squidoo or on other platforms. Not that I see that happening). I'm on twitter now and have tweeted my last few edits. I haven't done much editing today, but I'm getting there!

    I know that someone (sorry, can't remember who) suggested also integrating Blogger for the best results. I love the "follow" feature on Blogger but other than that I really don't like it. Anybody who follows me knows I prefer Wordpress, I hope wink

    So once I'm done with the current Wordpress series I'm going to arrange the test blog to be my central source for my articles. Hopefully this will allow me to cross-propagate backlinks and thereby get some additional traffic.

    What I'm curious about is a few things:

    1. How much luck have you had, personally, doing it this way? Does this help to go viral?

    2. How do you use this system to build a following?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image58
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That is a very confusing set of questions. What are you actually asking?

      As for building a following - I am sure there are plenty of christians here who will resonate with your opinion of atheists and follow you.

      But - maybe 3 weeks is not enough time?

    2. darkside profile image67
      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think the confusion is due to wanting to know too much too soon.

      Keep doing what you're doing, publishing hubs.

      Expand slowly. Don't have all your eggs in one basket, but if you do sign up elsewhere, make sure it too is about publishing quality original articles.

      Read what others are saying and look at what they're doing. Take notes. There's no rush to implement what they're doing into what you're doing. But as your knowledge grows and your feel for how to do things, you'll start to formulate your own ideas on what's the best tactics, and you'll work them into a strategy.

      The important thing is to continue writing quality hubs, and developing your hub making talents.

  2. GeneriqueMedia profile image59
    GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years ago

    Good question...

    I did this:

    Which I'll be revising and updating soon.

    That just speaks about "one" of my projects; but I made it useful, also, in describing how it works, thanking my patrons, evangelizing HubPages, etc.

    Digg, Squido, etc...I've not much success with that stuff (yet).

    However, I am doing something else new...

    I'm passing out my last album with a copy of "lxxy speaks the truth of heLP MD" burned right there. I tell people to not forget to put it in their computer! And they click--bam, they get to my HubPages.

    Most of my traffic comes from (at this point) word of mouth, friends, family, and of course...other Hubbers. smile

    I'm looking into modifying a self contained Firefox executable to jump right into my HubPages profile and pass it around on the CD as well. I'll let you know how that goes.


  3. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    So most of your marketing is offline marketing...

    I need to be more organized. I think that's what's bothering me the most, is that I'm so disorganized. I'm interested in a lot of subjects and that's how I'm writing. Unless every single one of them has a central hub (and I don't know that Hubpages would allow that) I don't know that using offline marketing is going to work particularly well for me.

    So frustrating! Linking on my profile has helped a bit with the failing hubs. I've been thinking about it and I'm going to make some minor edits to the ones that I feel are complete, but other than that, I'm going to give them time to just rise in the rankings for right now and think about marketing later. I need to change the way that I'm writing and organizing my hubs if I'm going to have more success, and obsessing over marketing isn't going to get anything done!

    Totally reading your stuff this weekend though, and taking the weekend off!

  4. GeneriqueMedia profile image59
    GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years ago

    Thanks. smile

    Yes, most of my marketing is offline marketing.


    Because those who are close to you and love you will spread you around. Google and adwords can help lock you in to various new strangers, but trust me...bands don't have street teams because its a fun way to organize their fans. wink

    It's all about hitting that tipping point, I think...gathering a stable of readers and building from there. Ask yourself...what are you more likely to do? Take advice from a stranger about a cool article, or click a link your momma sent you?


  5. GeneriqueMedia profile image59
    GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years ago

    Mark, I love you man.

    But I think she's asking some good, relevant questions.

    And trust me--whether she is christian or not has nothing to do with it. She's a very open minded person.

    However, that said, I will agree with you on that one point: she's only been here for three weeks.

    And yeah, it'll take time....


    1. Mark Knowles profile image58
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "I have encountered atheist after atheist who wants to convince me that after death there is nothing. I find it at best irritating and at worst downright disheartening."

      Not seeing this as open minded myself. This is a one sided opinion - but I am sure there are plenty who will agree with it and follow.

      And yes - 3 weeks is not enough time. big_smile

      1. Kelsey Tallis profile image64
        Kelsey Tallisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Actually, I also find atheism disheartening. I have no affiliation with any organized religion (I actually think the term is an oxymoron) but I do find atheism depressing. My own religious beliefs are intensely personal and evolve and change over time. Expressing an opinion is not the same as being close-minded.

        Anyway, I myself am too new to add anything to the actual topic but I look forward to reading the answers :-).

  6. cindyvine profile image69
    cindyvineposted 14 years ago

    Does Christianity or atheism come into the questions posed here?  Now I am confused.

    1. belief713 profile image60
      belief713posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No, Mark just likes to poke at Christians for the fun of it smile

    2. GeneriqueMedia profile image59
      GeneriqueMediaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Good one, Cindy. wink

  7. belief713 profile image60
    belief713posted 14 years ago

    I agree a lot with what darkside said. But, I have the same problem - trying to figure too much out. You have to make up your mind - are you writing to build a following or writing to make money? It's really hard to concentrate on both at the same time. Just keep writing - rule of thumb is 80/20 - 80% of your time should be spent doing money making things, other time can be spent socializing or learning/tweaking. Or vice versa, depending on your goal.

    As far as organization, I still haven't figured that out. I originally started writing on HubPages, tried (barely) a few other places/resources - and guess what? I'm back to HubPages. I love it (although I am a fan of WordPress also).

    It is good to be organized and have a plan, so if you really feel the need, sit down and map one out. Short term (a week or so) & long term (a month or year). That way if you have days/weeks/months where you don't feel like you accomplished much, you can look at what you've checked off and it'll inspire you to keep going.

    In regards to followers, I try not to worry about it. At first, I won't lie, I did. But now it doesn't make me or break me (and it hasn't made or broke my earnings). Not sure if followers makes a difference, but just because I don't follow someone doesn't mean I won't link to their work. Not sure if everyone thinks the same as me, but so far I haven't seen where social traffic converts to dollars. Being found, organically, in Google does. People who share interests with you or like your work will follow you & maybe befriend you as they discover you. That's the way you want it anyway, right?

    As far as luck doing it that way (jumping around writing different places) I can't say I have enough experience, but in the short time I've done it the best advice I can give is this: don't try to figure everything out (it will halt you're progress), just keep going. If you decide to write elsewhere make sure you get to keep your content in case you want to move it. And pick a few key places where you will publish and stick to them. Don't stray.

    Oh yeah, and offline marketing is just as effective as online, if not more.

    And even though I have very few hubs, I've been lurking around, just not doing much. So, I also quote Mark "yes - 3 weeks is not enough time. big_smile"

  8. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    I think my problem is that I'm a planner and an organizer. I'm constantly going into my hubs and tweaking the way that they are organized and laid out. I tend to think long-term (a good thing!) and I guess I also jump the gun.

    Now, to address Mark's concern here tongue

    You've picked up (and on) a personal feeling, something that is deeply personal and emotional. I don't mean that I find your beliefs disheartening, but that I find the idea of there being nothing after death disheartening. I thought that was clear, but if not, I apologize.

    I just don't want you (or any atheist) ramming your beliefs down my throat any more than you want a religious individual ramming their beliefs down your throat. I feel that it is sufficient to state what I believe and leave it open from there. You make your choices as I've made mine. I'm never, ever going to try to force anyone to believe as I do. I believe that zealotry is wrong and harmful, regardless of your personal beliefs.

    'Nuff said on that subject outside of the religion forum.

    And Mark, I was actually thinking of you earlier, because your interests are so varied. Being the organized person that I am, I'm struggling with this because I'm fairly similar (just with a different set of broad interests). How do you keep your information organized on Hubpages and on your blog? Is there a method to it in terms of how you handle your visitors or am I over reaching (again)?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image58
      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You know - I guessed that from the content of your hubs. wink

      Too bad. I personally find it disheartening that people prefer to pretend there is a life after death and push the idea that there are actually two different versions. One for the people who say one thing and one for everyone else.

      And things are not going to be pleasant for those foolish enough to choose not to believe the TRUTH.

      Just think of the way the world could be if all the energy put into pushing this laughable idea had been put into bettering ourselves and the world we live on over the last 2,000 years........

      The tags help. As now do the new categories. Having said that, I write at quite a few other places and much as I love wordpress also - I am finding it extremely difficult to manage and find older posts I want to reference.

      Tag them well is my best advice. Once you hit several hundred pages you will never be able to find them if you don't.

      The actual answer to your questions is 42.

  9. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    I was about to go to bed when I bust up laughing and had to come back and say one last thing to Mark:

    I think that I'm more likely to find that most Christians do NOT agree with me and that I'd be more likely to find a following of non-Christian spiritual people. I'm not religious by any means, but am very spiritual. I agree more with you than I do with the typical legalistic religious Christian.

    And yes, I'm very open minded wink My past is too varied for me not to be!

  10. belief713 profile image60
    belief713posted 14 years ago

    @ EM - I liked your response (to Mark). I feel very much the same way. And it's funny, a lot of Christians (I know) don't agree with me either - many are too stuck in religiosity. Let's all just agree to disagree and call it a day!

    I also like to go in and mess with my Hubs. I'm still trying to figure out the organization thing. I keep moving content around. I had some hubs up, moved them to my blogs, moved some back. LOL

    I decided anything that I'm not going to create a niche site around or that I am writing about for fun I will publish on HubPages. At any time, if I change my mind, the content is mine, I can do what I want with it. I love the options and freedom HubPages gives us to play around with things like that.

  11. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    I agree with you, belief713. I haven't been here very long -- I know that. I'm not expecting miracles (haha!). But for me, if I don't know how to move ahead into the future I know that I'm more likely to become frustrated, say, 8 months down the road and give up.

    I've been publishing, and most of my recent content has been as high in quality as I can produce. I have another poem in the works that I'll be putting up and a couple more stand-alone hubs as well as a series that I wish was long enough to be a Capstone because I think it will be interesting to a lot of people.

    That's how I work. Once I decided I liked HP, I started to want to work in series because it's an organized system. I have been repeatedly advised to cross-pollinate my material, but I just can't wrap my head around that. I think it's just too confusing for me. I know I can use my blog to market (not a problem). It's confusing though when you add in Squidoo and blogger (and I don't assume we're talking about using Blogger as a blog, but as a way to advertise).

    I'm not going to lie -- I'm here because I want to make money. In the process I discovered that I actually *enjoy* writing though (this came as a surprise to me) and I want to stick around and make this work in more ways than one. Trouble is that for me, that means having an organized system that *works*. The following means little to me, as long as I can get the word out there and propagate some backlinks (which I *know* take time).

    The concise version: I'm not worried about harvesting right now, I'm concerned about planting the seeds.

  12. belief713 profile image60
    belief713posted 14 years ago

    @ EM - it's good that you know that about yourself so you can try to guard against it. And I think you also know that you have to expect some failure or hard times. Some Hubs I thought would do great, don't. And others that I thought would be at the bottom of my account are doing better than anticipated. Of course some SEO always helps, but just keep doing what you're doing.

    Like I said, if at any point you decide to move your works, you can with HubPages. Adding in all those other services does get confusing and it takes time away from you focusing on your goal. Trust me - I did it. It's not worth the distraction or time lost. Learn about that extra stuff on your free time.

    I also came here to make money but I knew I liked writing. And I enjoy doing it. And I am a little bit good at it. Enough to make some AdSense earnings, but probably not write a magazine article or a book.

    HubPages will (at the very least) gain you readership and you'll probably also make some great virtual friends along the way wink

    P.S. I'm trying to work out a system with Excel/Google Docs where I can track my Hubs.... I'll let you know if I have any success with it.

    1. Everyday Miracles profile image85
      Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That, I think, is what I ultimately needed to know.

      I removed optimization from most of my early hubs (that I optimized). I'm paying attention to Analytics and know what's doing well in terms of traffic and what's doing well in terms of revenue. I also know which keywords are doing well for me (sexy auntie! LOL!).

      I think that logically I know it doesn't need to be more complicated than it is. As long as Google is indexing a page, the page will (usually) naturally rise as long as some basic marketing is implemented (like links on my personal blog and the forum when I get back to it).

  13. belief713 profile image60
    belief713posted 14 years ago

    Yeah, we as humans tend to complicate things. Look at animals - they run around without much to think about and get along fine big_smile (I know, I left myself wide open on that one)

    You have a good idea of what you need to do. Just stick to it and you'll be fine.

  14. Lissie profile image79
    Lissieposted 14 years ago

    OK I am not even going with the religon angle on this one!

    Mark is right though - you certainly lose track of what you write where and whether you have said it before or not LOL - I figure if I can't find it on my own blog its time to write it again anyways!

    OK I have 110 hubs, some lenses,2 blogs at today, my own flagship, self-titled blog, and around 50 other domains most of which have something on them!

    Spreadsheets are a nightmare but I have found no better way that way I at least remember to renewal domains I want to keep and monetize sites which are getting traffic :-)

    If you are only keeping a track of a few hubs/blogs and want a central spot I would actually recommend a thing called .Its associated with your twitter account - when you write an entry - a post if you will - then its automatically tweeted. But the nice thing is that within the post you can get an anchored do follow link to your original item be it a hub or something else. You can also write original material, post photos, videos whatever.

    I too have a diverse set of interests - though unlike Mark I find synchronized swimming strangely compelling. The reality is that people won't follow everything you do - how many of your real life friends enjoy every thing that you do? But I do think twitwall is a cool way to have a central place to point people to your current activities  -I think its called life streaming - but I just find it convenient - and free :-) And you arent limited to 140chars which is a problem for me!

  15. Eric Graudins profile image60
    Eric Graudinsposted 14 years ago

    What the hell are the religious arguments doing here ?? You're a bloody troublemaker, Knowles! smile

    OK, let's try and get this thread back on topic.

    I hope that everyone realises that when you use social networking sites, others are in control of your work.

    Online services cease, accounts get closed down for various reasons, and in general - shit happens.

    Make sure that you have saved a copy of your work on your own computer, and also backed up to a USB drive, hard drive, online backup, etc.

    Yes, I know it's boring.

    But if HubPages, or squidoo, or whatever disappeared tomorrow, would you feel a sense of loss because you don't have a copy of your work?

    If so, make a backup.

    And ideally, your work should also be published on your own website, with hosting and a domain name for which you have paid.
    THIS could be the main repository of your work, where you can direct people from all your other social networking sites.

    Buy your domain name from Namecheap, get hosting from hostgator, and set up your site with self hosted wordpress.

    Spend a few dollars. Gain control of your work. Don't make "FREE" an essential criterion for everything.

    Spend 20 hours on learning how to drive wordpress. Or spend some money to get someone to set everything up for you - so that all you have to do is write and add more content to your site. 

    cheers, Eric G.

  16. Everyday Miracles profile image85
    Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

    Mark: About tagging hubs... I thought that more tags was (usually) better. That being said, I had overlooked the fact that we could sort our hubs by tag. That, I guess, will be the next project: getting those organized to make everything easier to find.

    The groups will probably help, too. I will have to worry about directed traffic later on.

    Lissie: Thanks, checking it out now! No time to organize this weekend but I've got a full plate during the week!

    Eric: I have... At least count, four domains. Most of which are far too niche to allow me to do anything like this, but I can slap something onto without killing myself, I think.

    As for Wordpress... That's not a problem wink I've been using WP since MT went to paid license several years ago, and now that I hate MT (the new version)... Yeah... I'll stick with Wordpress. But I agree with Mark that it can be hard to organize, and I find even with just a few posts that it can get to be somewhat confusing. Once again the tag feature has been my friend there!

    Once I'm done with the tutorial I'm turning the blog I'm using for that into my personal blog.


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