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Hubpage editor has no idea of grammar.

  1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
    TessSchlesingerposted 11 days ago

    My jaw has just dropped. Please bear in mind I spent two years in London working as a copy editor for two different publishing houses. I do know my grammar.

    In addition, I waited nearly three weeks for the edit to be completed. That is not normal. I wrote the piece on the 18th September and it was selected for a 'pro-edit' a few days later. It was edited on the 5th October.

    The piece is entitled "Immigration to America. Winning the Green Card Lottery.' I wrote it because there is no first hand experience or much about it at all on the web. Yet, every year, some 55,000 immigrants enter America based on a green card lottery.

    So...

    Two sentences can only be combined through a conjunction (and, while, but, etc.) or a semi-colon. They are then called clauses (as opposed to a phrase which does not have a subject). You absolutely cannot join two sentences (clauses) together using a comma. This is called a run-on sentence.

    The 'hub-pro' editor took three or four sentences in my opening paragraph and linked them together with a comma, thereby creating a run-on sentence. My jaw dropped. I am still quite stunned.

    Confirmation: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/ … skills.htm

    Next, this 'editor' virtually rewrote my entire piece. Note this was not to improve the English. This just created a different style to my own. In addition, the lack of grammar showed throughou the piece.

    For instance, I preferred to start a sentence with the word 'Therefore,' rather than insert it in the middle of the sentence. However, if one does use it in the middle of a sentence, there is a comma before and after. This 'editor' omitted the comma.

    Confirmation: http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/punctua … d-however/

    The editor also removed every single instance of my word 'one. People who use English in this way come from a higher socio-economic demographic. My use of the word is correct. This is the something akin to people of a lower socio-economic demographic who use a double negative in English as in "I didn't do nothing," when the correct wording is "I didn't do anything."

    While there is nothing incorrect about changing my words to suit the editor's wording, there is also nothing wrong with mine. And I deeply resent having an entire piece rewritten to suit the whims of a wannabe editor.

    In addition, I have been writing on the web since late 1993. There were 3,300 sites on the web when I started. So I know my readership. The number one lesson is 'keep things simple.' Don't make it anymore complex than it need to be. One puts the important information in the piece, and provides a link if the reader would want more. And one sometimes provides a link to prove what one says(as in Healdove).

    So this wannabe editor removes the list of countries that qualify for entry to the diversity lottery and only permits my link. This means my reader has to click on the link to see the countries. What this does is a) inconvenience the reader which means the reader will either move on because the info is not immediately available, or b) click on the link and not come back to my site because s/he is now on the government site and no longer needs to finish reading my article.

    That is not exactly what I was aiming at.

    Next she does something that I have only done once here on hubpages. She changes my wording to say that I recommend something. I absolutely and utterly do not recommend anything - ever (well, only black cumin oil).

    The entire article has been rewritten. I think anyone who knows my writing will acknowledge that I don't write that badly.

    So, here's the thing. I would rather have that hub removed from the niche site (Soapboxie) than have bad writing masquerade as  my own.  In addition, it's a relevant immigration article, and, for the life of me, I cannot understand why it would be in soapboxie.

    So, I will be writing to HP and explaining to them why I have reverted this article to the way I wrote it, and I understand that it will be removed from the niche site, but I am not willing for people to read a piece I supposedly wrote that is so full of grammatical errors. At this point, anyway, I didn't write it.

    Addendum
    Oh, yes, and she changed by bio, thereby changing the bio of every single other travel piece that has the same bio.

    OMG. And the editor just changed my formal written English into spoken colloquial English.
    "so I surrendered my green card "  becomes "ended up surrendering my Green Card."  Oh, yes, and one doesn't capitalize the words 'green card.'

    Confirmation: http://grammar.yourdictionary.com/capit … ation.html

    I haven't even read the entire piece yet. I can't bring myself to do it. Oh. Wow!

    1. ChitrangadaSharan profile image79
      ChitrangadaSharanposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      +1
      Agree with you completely! Too much of editing is going on these days. Every writer has a definite style . That should not be changed without permission.
      Much is being edited in the name of grammar , punctuation and other things. I practically removed each and every link from my hubs to suit their requirements.

      1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
        TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

        Yes, but in this case, my hub was changed from good grammar to non-existent grammar. This particular editor doesn't know much about grammar.

        The hub was also put on an opinion piece site when it wasn't an opinion but a factual piece on the Green Card Lottery (Diversity Lottery).

        In addition, the editor changed virtually every single sentence to insert his/her words rather than mine. That is NOT an edit. That is a re-write.

    2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 days agoin reply to this

      The way to fix this is to send a copy of this post directly to Robin.  She needs to know that an editor is doing things like this.  I've had similar problems at times and have told Robin about them.  Except for one time, she has allowed me to change my post back and make corrections, etc.

      Some of the editors are great and do good jobs of finding and correcting errors, but some get a bit full of themselves and go crazy once in awhile.  It won't change unless you let Robin know  that it's going on..  She'll know who the editor is and will speak to them when appropriate.

      1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
        TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

        I have already let the team know. If I don't get a response, I will send an email to Robin.

  2. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 10 days ago

    That was one heck of a post; yes it was. I'm on your side. smile

    However, welcome to HP. big_smile
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeKidp-iWo
    That's just...

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      ...the way it is. smile

      Yup, I had to go back and correct my errors this morning. Ranting on at two in the morning is not conducive to well written prose. I was somewhat upset.

      The more I think about it, the more I realize I cannot leave that piece under my name. Anyone who has a good grasp of the written word won't think highly of my writing.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image87
        paradigmsearchposted 10 days agoin reply to this

        .
        I woke up this morning and saw all the replies. Me thinks you've started a revolt here. lol

        Looks like most of us have been messed over with at one time or another. Very fortunately, Robin does indeed intervene and fix most of the true fiascos. Also, considering this thread's title, you can bet HP staff has read it. I've also noticed from time to time editors suddenly disappearing from the Team roster. I tell ya, life is a tough town all around.

        What can we do about it? Not much. Here's a post someone made about me a few days ago that still cracks me up: big_smile

        "Awwww, it's cute how you expect everything to be easy instead of FUBAR"

        I just continue to muddle along and do the best I can. As for your situation: yep, I'd yank that hub; revert it; move it somewhere else. I've done that, myself, many times. Hang in there!

        1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
          TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

          +1

        2. paradigmsearch profile image87
          paradigmsearchposted 10 days agoin reply to this

          Update.

          Meanwhile, I am still fond of HP and always will be.

          1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
            TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

            I have a great admiration for both Paul and Robin. I think that they are doing a sterling job. They are contantly having to rearrange hubpages as a result of Google constantly changing their algorhythms. I can't imagine it is easy.

            I don't thinkt hat this the particular 'edit' done to my piece was a result of policy. I think it was a run-away editor who clearly does not realize that she is not permitted to rewrite my piece in a style that is more akin to her own. Nor is she allowed to put words into my mouth. And if she is going to be an editor, then it behoves her to have an immaculate knowledge of English grammar.

            1. paradigmsearch profile image87
              paradigmsearchposted 10 days agoin reply to this

              When my 12-hub matrix fiasco happened, an editor then suddenly disappeared from the Team. 99% probability it was just coincidence, but I've wondered.

  3. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 10 days ago

    I particularly agree with your reference to the word, "one". I use it as well.

    "One should do such-and-such." is less confrontational to the reader than "You should do such-and-such." Leastwise that's the reason I use it.

    [I cringe to think how many punctuation/grammar errors I made in this and the previous post. Oh, well. big_smile]

  4. Alison Graham profile image93
    Alison Grahamposted 10 days ago

    I think it is a good thing to bring this to the attention of HubPages as, who polices the police (so to speak)? There has been at least one documented case in the forums of an editor overstepping his/her remit (acknowledged by HP). I applaud your stand. However, I am grateful for the additional views (and income) that edits and moves to niche sites have brought me

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      I love it when my hubs are selected for the vertical sites, and I am fortunate that a good few are.

      However, while I would normally drive readers to my site through my various social networking sites, I would not do so for this one. That is because there are too many severe grammarical errors and because I work professionally as a writer. This is my sole income. I am also about to republish my books. The last thing I need is a badly written hub that can be accessed by the general public.

      I cannot let it stand, and I do want to promote it. That's why I wrote it.

  5. pen promulgates profile image79
    pen promulgatesposted 10 days ago

    Wow. Your explanation is logical indeed.
    As far as I know, after an article gets its vertical site, you can very well make the changes to how you want (in your case, how you originally intended it be). Have you tried that?

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      Well, I've seen a note that says that if one changes it, one loses the ability to be on a niche site or it might not be featured. In this case, I am absolutely adamant that I cannot promote the piece as it is. The grammar is attrocious.

      1. theraggededge profile image96
        theraggededgeposted 10 days agoin reply to this

        I've changed edits back with no detrimental effect.

        1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
          TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

          okay. Thanks.

      2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image93
        TIMETRAVELER2posted 10 days agoin reply to this

        That's not true.  If you add spammy elements that have been removed, then yes, the hub can be removed, but not for making textual changes.

      3. Marisa Wright profile image94
        Marisa Wrightposted 10 days agoin reply to this

        I have made major edits to Hubs without any problem.   The only reason you might find it getting moved back to HubPages would be if you added links they didn't like.   It's an empty threat.

  6. eugbug profile image96
    eugbugposted 10 days ago

    I just reverse edits if I don't agree with them or they don't make sense because the editor didn't understand the context/jargon in the hub.

  7. Jan Saints profile image86
    Jan Saintsposted 10 days ago

    One editor was suggesting that I include "pouring water on a dog" section on my article, and I was like, what's that? Hey, some of us here have experience with the topics we're writing on! See the bios!

  8. OldRoses profile image90
    OldRosesposted 10 days ago

    An editor changed the title on one of my hubs to reflect one, very minor point that I made in the hub.  The original title was a better description of the entire hub.  After the change traffic dropped precipitously because the title attracted such a narrow readership.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      Yes I had an editor make some changes previously and my traffic dropped by a third. I waited three months, changed it, made some more changes, and doubled my traffic.

  9. annart profile image88
    annartposted 10 days ago

    I understand your frustrations. The editors are often wrong. British English is penalised and proof reading is obviously non-existent! I would do the same as you.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 10 days agoin reply to this

      +1

  10. NessMovieReviews profile image82
    NessMovieReviewsposted 10 days ago

    Is there a list of editors?
    Sorry this happened to you. I'm lucky - ignorance is bliss sometimes. I'm sure that my grammar is no better than any editor on the team.
    My annoyance is inconsistencies.

    1. paradigmsearch profile image87
      paradigmsearchposted 10 days agoin reply to this
  11. RTalloni profile image87
    RTalloniposted 10 days ago

    Oh me! Glad you wrote of your experience with the editing. Will be looking for the outcome.

  12. TessSchlesinger profile image91
    TessSchlesingerposted 9 days ago

    Well, Robin has come  back to me and said she wants to speak to the editor who normally does good work. She also says I can change it back to the way it was. The problem is that I will have to do this one edit at a time or simply re-upload it, which is what I think I'm going to do.

    There is no way I can delete what the editor has done and insert my wording without it taking me two or three very frustrating hours working with two different copies on my screen. That's a pity because I am sure that the editor must have been right some of the time.

  13. Rupert Taylor profile image96
    Rupert Taylorposted 9 days ago

    Sorry to hear about your misfortune Tess, but the issue seems to have been resolved amicably.

    I can only recall one occasion on which someone editing in a mistake and I quickly corrected it without fuss.

    Most of my articles go to niche heaven without being touched more than an occasional comma inserted or removed. However, the staff does often change my titles. I'm of the opinion that these are younger folk than I and are schooled in the dark arts of SEO, whereas the gnome in my neighbour's garden knows more about SEO than I do. So I let them have their way.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 9 days agoin reply to this

      It is a once off. None of my other articles had this.

  14. Thelma Alberts profile image86
    Thelma Albertsposted 9 days ago

    Sorry to here about this mess the editor has committed on your hub. Now I will be more vigilant whenever my hubs are edited by HP editors. Thanks for writing this.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      It's all sorted now. smile I just reverted back to the way it was. When I did, I noticed that the editor also removed some useful information. Can think of no rhyme or reason. sad

      But it's fixed now. smile

  15. shanmarie profile image77
    shanmarieposted 8 days ago

    I think I follow you. I will have to go check notifications now because I am curious. Not that I don't agree with you, but I am also curious now if you are in the US? I thought you were in South Africa, for some reason. The reason I ask is because I don't think the use if 'one' is as much a socio-ecinomic thing as a general education thing. Also, a stylistic thing. I've had clients specifically request 2nd person because they feel their readers respond better. Then again, that depends on the type of content, meaning blogs and company websites purposely intend to be less formal. That said, it is my understanding that an HP editor is not supposed to change the style or the sentences.

    It irritated me more than once when they capitalized my interview questions to music artists as if they were titles to a subheadinh or main heading. Instill don't understand the purpose of that. So I tried not putting the questions in the capsule title spot, but they still changed it.

    In your case, sounds as if they changed quite a bit. Sounds like an interesting article, too. Glad you put it back in your own voice.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image91
      TessSchlesingerposted 8 days agoin reply to this

      Virtually every sentence was rewriitten and some entirely factual information was removed.

      I am no longer in America. I surrendered my green card after 11 years and returned to Europe. After a year in Europe, I returned to South Africa. Give me another year and I'll go back to Europe. smile

      Education is linked to socio-economics.

 
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