Important Maven Info

1. 85

   TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years ago

   Another hubber emailed this info to me today.  It is vital that you read and understand what it is saying.  I have emailed Paul to see what can be done about this, but if we are forced to agree to this on Maven's TOS in order to be able to write there, I will be removing every article from the site before the move takes place.  I do not want to give up control as to how my work is used, especially when I will get no financial remuneration if Maven wants to use it to create books, etc.  Any thoughts?
   
   HubPages' TOS makes a distinction between Hub Content and other contributions to the site.  HubPages takes ownership of all the forum posts etc, and users have no right to delete them.  However, HubContent is singled out as a separate matter, and the TOS clearly states their licence applies only as long as the Hub is published.   It's the main reason I left Helium and joined HubPages. 
   
   Maven's TOS makes no such distinction that I can see.  ALL "User Contributions" are lumped together and by posting on their network, you grant a licence IN PERPETUITY for them to publish it. 
   
   It's even worse than that, in fact - it includes the right to "reproduce, publish, translate, use, modify, create derivative works based upon, publicly perform, publicly display, and distribute such User Contributions on and through all media formats now known or hereafter devised (including, without limitation, through the Website or mobile devices), for any and all purposes including, without limitation, promotional, marketing, advertising, trade or commercial purposes. Our use of such User Contributions shall not require any further notice to you and such use shall be without the requirement of any permission from or payment to you or to any other person or entity."

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   1. 93

      Marketing Meritposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Have to agree with Bev, TT.
      
      It's early days and doubt the finer details have been thrashed out yet. Bit of a waiting game I'm afraid. The one thing I am confident of though, is that Paul E is a man of integrity and will do his utmost to secure the best deal possible for hubbers.
      
      Until the terms are announced, everything is speculation.

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      1. 71

         makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         While Paul may be a man of integrity it's evident from at least one article https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/06/hubpage … years.html that his priority was getting his investors repaid and getting some financial benefit out of the site for himself and his staff.
         
         "Edmondson was excited because he'd found a home for himself and his 32 employees (including eight that start on Monday) and he's giving them a chance to own stock with potential upside."
         
         Content creators didn't get a mention
         
         Or did they?
         
         "Paul and I are aligned because we both agree that mom-and-pop or small publishers no longer have a sustainable business," Heckman said in an interview. "It's over."

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         1. 97

            EricDockettposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            I find that article troubling as well. Particularly this sentence:
            
            On Friday morning, Edmondson finally got his exit.
            
            Has Paul been looking for an "exit" all these years?
            
            

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            1. 71

               makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               In many circles it's called "the retirement package"
               
               How do you capitalise on the value of what you have built?
               
               You sell it.
               
               If Google has killed the market for content farms there's a limit to the number of options you have available to you.

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               1. 75

                  Ken Burgessposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Indeed, those with the power and control have come to deem the 'wild west' internet (aka free speech, free access and sharing of information) to be a detriment to the status-quo.  Across the globe, everywhere from England to Uruguay new restrictions are being enforced and speaking one's opinion could land one in trouble with the law. 
                  
                  The demonetization of channels on YouTube and platforms like HubPages is becoming the norm.  The next step will be making it so that search engines all together stop showing sites not approved and supported by Google.
                  
                  I predict this will largely backfire over time, as people go the 'Dark Net/web' and use fractionalized and decentralized means of 'setting up shop' and conducting business outside/beyond the reach of Google and other mega-corporations trying to restrict information and opinions.
                  
                  This was what brought Bitcoin to its prominence, technology will improve, and newer generations will shift away from sites like Google and YouTube to the next 'wild west' internet.  Those that get the jump on this coming trend now, will be in a position to reap an economic windfall just like those who pioneered YouTube Channels and sites like HubPages did a decade ago.

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                  1. 60

                     TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     That's really interesting.
                     
                     I know that facebook went onto the Dark web a while ago (not the Deep net).
                     
                     What I have never figured out is how you get onto the dark net.

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                     1. 0

                        Dabby Lyricposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                        I'd like to know this myself!

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         2. 93

            Marketing Meritposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            That's the nature of business. Nobody is going to hand over 8 to 10 million without expecting a return on their investment, and they will typically have first call on any capital.
            
            I stand by what I said. In the 9 years that I have been doing this, HubPages has remained the most reputable site of it's kind. The change may not benefit all hubbers, but we are all free to take our content elsewhere.
            
            I run 12 websites of my own and know, from personal experience, that they are expensive to operate and maintain, not to mention time-consuming. Hubbers effectively have a service agreement whereby they forfeit 40% of their earnings in order to eliminate this hassle and hopefully, get a better ranking for their articles.
            
            While I appreciate the concerns expressed, there is little benefit in speculation which only serves to engender fear. Let's wait for the terms to be announced and then an informed discussion can take place.
            
            It is always a risk if you rely solely on a third party site such as this. The control is never, and will never be yours.

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            1. 0

               Dabby Lyricposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               How do we go from getting paid roughly 60% of our earnings to 40% with Maven? Is that confirmed?

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               1. 93

                  Marketing Meritposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  I think you misread my reply Dabby.
                  
                  I said hubbers forfeit 40% of their earnings and in return, HP manages the site.

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                  1. 0

                     Dabby Lyricposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Oops, sorry bout that. Guess that's me on edge trying to figure it all out. I really hope this works out for us too.

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   2. 96

      sallybeaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I share your concerns, I definitely don't want anyone using my content without limitation, promotional, marketing, advertising, trade or commercial purposes.  My plan has always been to write a felting book.  The idea that they might get to reap the benefits of years of work before I can do is not one which I find appealing.

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      1. 71

         makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Sally if you really want to write a felting book let me know via message as my publishers might well be interested. They're interested in people with a big following.

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2. 96

   theraggededgeposted 6 years ago

   We just have to be patient until it's all clarified. The ToS will either be changed, or be different for hubs, I'm sure.

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   1. 85

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I truly hope you are right, but bear in mind that TOS can be changed at any time without notification to writers, so even though they may look good at first, they could change later.
      
      At first I thought this would be great, but the more I read in the posts the more concerned I became.  Paul has yet to respond clearly about these issue and until he does, I will remain leery.
      
      I trust him, but I'm not sure he made a good deal.  Nobody is perfect, even though they may have good intentions.  This could go south for him as well as us because he'll receive payment in stocks, not cash.

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3. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 6 years ago

   Yes it is a wait and see scenario, however big changes can lead to good and bad things.  Those with large accounts might want to ensure their material is backed up, it's a good idea anyway it makes it easier to move if necessary.
   
   Yes, Hubpages is reputable, but Maven is an unknown entity and they are now in charge.

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   1. 93

      Marketing Meritposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Certainly don't disagree with this.

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   2. 71

      makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Not yet - we're only at Letter of Intent stage. The final terms and documentation still have to be signed.  This is not a done deal.

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4. 60

   TessSchlesingerposted 6 years ago

   I have to say that I have absolutely no idea what to do now.
   
   The only thing I can think of is writing books but I absolutely and utterly hate, loathe, detest marketing.
   
   While I'm sure Paul will do his best for his writers, the choice may be between selling his writers down the river in exchange for a nice retirement package for himself and looking after his writers and still having to slog for less than he desires.
   
   And while I've been paid monthly now for a while, the last few months have been really good. I'm not sure that it's worth doing any more work on hubpages until Paul clarifies.
   
   While there are those who say that the details haven't been worked out, I doubt it. People don't sign contracts without the details being worked out.

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   1. 71

      makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      he hasn't signed a contract - they have signed a Letter of Intent.
      
      Think of it like the stage in buying a house when you say "Let's do it" - but you still have to get all the detailed documentation signed. Only when that is signed does he have a contract.
      
      Not all intentions move to completion

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      1. 60

         TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Enough has been signed for an announcement to have been made. A letter of intent is still a contract.

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         1. 71

            makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            No it's not.  Couple of paragraphs from some of the top ranked sites on Google for definitions and what it means
            
            "A letter of intent (LOI or LoI, and sometimes capitalized as Letter of Intent in legal writing, but only when referring to a specific document under discussion) is a document outlining one or more agreements between two or more parties before the agreements are finalized."
            
            "The parties may desire that the letter of intent be a legally binding contract. However, the details of most transactions are normally not discussed until the drafting of a full agreement and, therefore, the parties should be careful and only use such legally binding letters of intent if absolutely necessary."

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            1. 60

               TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               So you're saying to me that both parties signing the letter of intent can just do what they like?
               
               The same article says  "LOIs are similar to written contracts as they contain provisions that are binding, such as covenants to negotiate in good faith or non disclosure agreements. However, they are not usually binding on the parties in their entirety because they are expressed as subject to contract."
               
               Basically, everything that is written in that letter of intent will be carried out. It is just as much of a commitment as a contract is.
               
               "Financiers without a fully signed facility agreement, but holding a signed offer letter and operating a facility for a purported client, will be interested to learn that it has recently been decided by the Supreme Court that a LOI could be interpreted as binding if it closely resembles a formal contract, or if it infers that the parties intended it to be regarded as such. "
               
               https://www.franciswilksandjones.co.uk/ … ntent.html
               
               Oranges and Apples - both fruit.

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               1. 71

                  makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                  Anything that says subject to contract is not binding i.e. it's not a signed contract

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                  1. 60

                     TessSchlesingerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

                     Okay. Thanks.

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5. 92

   poppyrposted 6 years ago

   I've already started creating backups of my best articles, just in case they do a Helium and everything suddenly gets deleted.

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6. 85

   Don Bobbittposted 6 years ago

   I have been here, on HP for over 7 years and I usually keep quiet about these things until I read everyone's opinion and analysis.
   Sad to say, from what I see right now I will, over the next week, be building a NEW archive of all of my Hubs as they exist right now.
   Then, I will try to keep up with what goes on about; HP, MY WRITINGS and MAVEN, with one hand constantly on the switch ready to eliminate my over 200 Hubs from the HP world.
   From my perspective, HP has always been a business partner, as one of you said.
   The deal has always been; I WRITE and HP gets a percentage for presenting and managing the presentation of MY WRITINGS to the web.
   I will always OWN MY WRITINGS.
   When I feel MY OWNERSHIP is in jeopardy, You will not see me or my works on HP or MAVEN but eventually on another site, either my own or another budding HP.
   I''ll be the guy with all of those ongoing DCMA filings.
   Sure, my income will dwindle or go away, but what's MINE is MINE!
   DON

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   1. 85

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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   2. 96

      sallybeaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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      1. 91

         Natalie Frankposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         +1

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   3. 97

      eugbugposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      +1 and what are the implications of this in the TOS?
      
      "HubPages may preserve and store Hub Content (including, for a commercially reasonable time, Hub Content you have removed from the Service)"

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      1. 71

         makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         Just a guess but if they publish it elsewhere or for more than a reasonable period they'll be hit by masses of "cease and desist" and reports to Google about plagiarism.
         
         Paul needs to DEFINE what "reasonable time" means in writing.

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         1. 85

            Marisa Wrightposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Preserve and store does not mean display publicly.   The preservation and storage is necessary in case of copyright disputes.

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   4. 93

      viryaboposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      My thoughts exactly!

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7. 85

   Don Bobbittposted 6 years ago

   Yes, they can legally "preserve" content, but any use after the company is "sold" is not allowed without your consent until you accept the new company's provisions.
   In other words, sure, they can preserve it but it is still your copyrighted work that can only be used as stated in your first company's agreement with you. ANY new company MUST have your agreement to use your content in any way other than what you have agreed to when this transfer happens.
   So watch out for what happens before this transfer occurs. And watch out for those words "implied consent" in what you read as this happens.
   ME? I need someone to send me the link to the existing contract we are operating under with HP, so I can preserve a copy.
   DON

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   1. 94

      Shesabutterflyposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      This is the user agreement we have with HP. https://hubpages.com/help/user-agreement

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   2. 71

      makingamarkposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Don - you just go the bottom of any page and in the black section you will find this.
      
      Copyright is on the top line and Last line has Terms of Use
      ____________________
      
      About Us Contact Us Copyright
      Copyright © 2018 HubPages Inc. and respective owners.
      
      Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners.
      
      HubPages® is a registered Service Mark of HubPages, Inc.
      
      HubPages and Hubbers (authors) may earn revenue on this page based on affiliate relationships and advertisements with partners including Amazon, Google, and others.
      
      terms of use privacy policy (0.31 sec)

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      1. 84

         psycheskinnerposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         That seems to me to agree with what Don is saying.

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