Update on Maven

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  1. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 19 months ago

    We are all excited about joining Maven and we have been working on plans. We like to be cautious about announcing items because we are still taking inventory of both our team’s capabilities and figuring out the best application of our resources.

    Our goal is to grow traffic and revenue to help independent publishers create a sustainable income.

    First, we are working on improving monetization. Integrating ad ops, business development and planning future ad tech is underway.

    The next area is recirculating widgets, branding, and search. Recirculating widgets are intended to engage users across all the sites participating in the ecosystem. The initial test is limited to content on Maven (but we will display a bit of this on HubPages) and it will be expanding shortly to include the entire ecosystem. Look for this to alpha test in April.

    Search and Branding. We are working on an integrated search box that displays results from the HubPages site or an option to find a specific channel across the ecosystem. HubPages is well represented in this early feature.

    We are still working on branding. As the top level domains remain the same (PetHelpful etc), we would like to build a brand that connects us all as passionate experts - “Mavens”.

    HubPages has never been stronger. The community is engaged and creating amazing articles. The partnership between Hubbers and Editors is creating world class content. Monetization is doing very well and as I always say, don’t get too low if traffic drops, or to high if it jumps up because we are here for the long haul. While traffic can bounce up or down, the trend up is very positive. We’ve come a long way together.

    Thanks for being part of the HubPages community. -Paul

    1. jackclee lm profile image82
      jackclee lmposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Paul, thanks for the update.
      It helps to know periodically what is going on behind the scenes.
      Looking forward to the completion.

    2. paolaenergya profile image97
      paolaenergyaposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Excellent news, these new developments sound great and they will give more visibility to high quality content.

    3. robhampton profile image93
      robhamptonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Awesome. Thanks for the update. You know, I find myself complaining about petty stuff sometimes on here ( "why did they change that?, Why was that link removed? Grrr!" ) But in all honesty, I make money on here. And who, but us have professional editors? It's an awesome thing for successful hubbers. My traffic of course is very seasonal since I write about swimming pools, but whatever is going on is making a HUGE difference this year. We all have seen the massive cpm increase, I am excited and glad to be a part of this. I made REALLY good $$ last year from April-September. Looks like my earnings are going to triple this year. I'm also noticing a MASSIVE increased in global traffic. Last year was about 95% US. This year I'm getting all kinds of traffic from countries I've never heard of! lol

      1. lobobrandon profile image91
        lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

        Hey Rob, you should have paid better attention in School tongue yeah, same here, I had a decent amount of traffic in winter from Australia, where it was summer. This was not something I saw in the previous years. My traffic on some hubs is up, up to 500% on some days when compared to last year, summer is gonna be great for us and many others. Looking forward to it. not just for the traffic, but to go outside and enjoy the sun big_smile

        1. robhampton profile image93
          robhamptonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

          https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/13971353.png


          https://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/13971354.png

          It's only the end of March. Never saw anything like this last year!

          1. lobobrandon profile image91
            lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

            1-10 of 133 (Visits from 133 countries today!) Never bothered looking at this before, I'm impressed.

    4. TessSchlesinger profile image94
      TessSchlesingerposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Not sure I know what you mean by widgets, and I think I prefer being called a hubber rather than a Maven. As you're working on branding, does this mean Hubpages is going to be renamed?

      1. lobobrandon profile image91
        lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

        The staff have said that there is no renaming, at least not in the foreseeable future. They are just looking for some design changes which make it obvious to the readers that the site is a part of the maven network. Some sort of branding, which could be a good thing to build up trust.

        Paul did reply regarding the widgets and what they are: something similar to the related articles section.

        1. TessSchlesinger profile image94
          TessSchlesingerposted 18 months agoin reply to this

          Thanks.

    5. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image98
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks, Paul.  For those of us who aren't tech savvy, though, it would be nice i you could post in more down to earth terms...ie, I don't know what a widget is or what you mean when you talk about an ecosystem as it refers to our site.  What I did get from this is that our team is working hard and what you all are doing is making things better for us, which is the most important thing.

      1. JoannaBlackburn profile image85
        JoannaBlackburnposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        That's what I was gonna post.  I agree I don't know the terms but understand this is meant to help all of us.

    6. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
      DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Paul, this update seems to be good news; I was quite concerned a few weeks back when another author on here posted that Maven's stock had taken a significant nose dive.
      In fact, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with being subjected to the whims of the stock market...
      That said, I have no way of knowing how much of the merger is already in play, (if any) but (fingers crossed) ever since December 2017, for the first time in my approximately 7  years here, I'm not only making payout, but surpassing the threshold every month!  This, in spite of the fact that my colored traffic up/down arrows always seem to be very few in number (a good thing for those blue ones).
      I only hope this trend continues going forward.

    7. Natalie Frank profile image95
      Natalie Frankposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Great news.  Thanks for the update.  It's really helpful especially for any lingering anxiety to know a bit about what's going on.

    8. EricFarmer8x profile image95
      EricFarmer8xposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      I am curious to see what things are being worked on.

    9. NateB11 profile image92
      NateB11posted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Love it.

    10. Mike Hardy profile image93
      Mike Hardyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      While I’m a noob to hubpages, I’m a seasoned blogger. Hubpages have given me a new and exciting creative opportunity that I can’t afford to take on my own web site. Your channel approach is awesome and I’m sure it will yield results. Keep the hints and communications coming.

    11. Gyanendra Mocktan profile image69
      Gyanendra Mocktanposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you very much for your latest update.

  2. janshares profile image94
    jansharesposted 19 months ago

    Thumbs up, enjoying the ride. Just need to reorganize my time and priorities to write and publish more. Thanks for all you guys are doing, definitely seeing and reaping the benefits. smile

  3. Kenna McHugh profile image89
    Kenna McHughposted 19 months ago

    Great update. I look forward to seeing it in action.

  4. Kierstin Gunsberg profile image98
    Kierstin Gunsbergposted 19 months ago

    Thanks for the update, Paul! Things seem to be going really well all-around and I'm just so pleased.

  5. Peggy W profile image95
    Peggy Wposted 19 months ago

    Thanks for the update Paul.  It all sounds very positive.

  6. lobobrandon profile image91
    lobobrandonposted 19 months ago

    Sound good, and great work as always.

    I'm concerned about the recirculating widget idea though. If this is what I think it is, I assume this is concerning the related content in the sidebar? If yes, the tests on Maven and the HP domains should not be compared as they are within the maven website and across multiple websites, respectively. Now that the niche sites all have good content it may be fine, but when it comes to linking to Maven, it could be a downfall for the niche sites as in the end it is like you are linking to spammy websites. I don't think Maven is one of the best sites on the internet. The content they have is not the best and many of their channels have 0 traffic (this would be unfeatured on HP).

    Good luck with the Alpha tests though, hoping for the best.

    1. EricDockett profile image97
      EricDockettposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Agreed.

      Though I admit the Maven business model isn't quite clear to me, one of my biggest concerns is that this entire Maven project is going to be propped up by traffic and revenue from the HubPages sites. I hope the idea isn't to take traffic that arrived on an HP niche site via search and try to funnel it around the "Maven Network".  I see no way HubPages writers benefit from that arrangement. (If someone else does, please explain.)

      As it stands, I couldn't be happier with traffic and earnings right now. Everything seems to be going great. Hope it continues.

    2. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
      DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      What in tarnation is a "recirculating widget"???!!?

      Sounds like some gizmo pushed by a door-to-door salesman!

      1. lobobrandon profile image91
        lobobrandonposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        A piece of code that shows related articles to the article being read.

        1. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
          DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

          Ah-so!  Thanks, lobobrandon!
          It would be nice if these updates were written in more non-techie terms!
          lol

  7. Ansel Pereira profile image93
    Ansel Pereiraposted 19 months ago

    Thank you for the update Paul. There's going to be highs and lows, it's all part of a healthy process. Looking forward to a fruitful journey on here.

  8. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 19 months ago

    One of the things we’ve tried to instill is that we are a community and all in this together. High quality benefits everyone. Folks that purely look out for themselves could threaten what we’ve built. That’s part of the reason we are so strict on links, products and other things that can appear spammy.

    Maven uses the word coalition. I really like it because it feels like we are all banded together for a common goal.

    1. robhampton profile image93
      robhamptonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      I agree, that's why I mentioned that sometimes I gripe about petty things and don't stop to look at the bigger picture. We have a good thing going on here. People just need to know how to write.

    2. lobobrandon profile image91
      lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      This is very true, and I must admit that I see this and it is selfish of me when I offered to help people with hubs on Dengarden some time ago. I do like helping people, but I put hubs on dengarden as a priority as that is where I have most of my hubs.

      Eric this is what I fear too from my reply to Paul on this thread. Once he knows more I would love an answer on this.

      In general, I am really happy with the high level of moderation going on here, I just introduced a few friends who build their own sites to Hubpages today, I never bothered before, as I was usually here for the community, but things have changed.

    3. EricDockett profile image97
      EricDockettposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      I don't think anyone would be on HubPages if they were purely looking out for themselves. They would go and build their own website, but instead they chose to build their brand on HubPages. That's good, right?

      Anyone who is still here after years of struggle obviously cares about HubPages and what it means to be a writer here. They obviously believe in you, Paul, and the Team and the community or they would not have stuck around.

      The other "mavens" chose to surrender their websites and become part of this coalition. When they did so they were looking out for themselves. They made the move because it was in their own best interest. I don't blame them. It was their choice, and they made the choice that was right for them.

      HubPages chose to join Maven because it was in their own best interest. I don't blame HubPages. Businesses make decisions that are best for them. That's how it ought to be.

      We HubPages writers were thrust into this. We had no choice. Being concerned about the future of what we've built here doesn't mean we are selfish and a threat to everything. It just means we would like to be treated like everyone else in this arrangement. We care about our brands just like the other maven site owners do.

      1. lobobrandon profile image91
        lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

        Well said.

      2. viryabo profile image95
        viryaboposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        +1

    4. liesl5858 profile image87
      liesl5858posted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the update Paul. Although there are some words which I don't understand like widgets and ecosystem but hopefully Google will help.

  9. Paul Edmondson profile imageSTAFF
    Paul Edmondsonposted 19 months ago

    The idea is to make the recirculating widgets benefit every producer - think like a way of doing "related" articles across the entire ecosystem.

    This will benefit everyone.  Beyond the widget, we are working on ways to more deeply engage users.  For folks that really study how we monetize, the longer we can keep a user on the site, the more revenue is produced.

    At the end of the day, the overall goal is increasing time/revenue.  There will likely be several experiments.  We have several ideas we would like to test in the coming months.

    1. lobobrandon profile image91
      lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      Experiments are awesome, have fun and I wish you guys success.

      "For folks that really study how we monetize, the longer we can keep a user on the site, the more revenue is produced." I knew it! 

      So, it does make sense that our CPM is a bit lower on the day's hubs that answer questions early on see an uptick in traffic, even though the source is still mainly organic US traffic. Thanks for the clarification. This was a correlation noticed between me and another Hubber who I communicate to via email.

      Yup, related articles across the entire ecosystem, definitely helps the system as long as the entire system is healthy. But a transfusion from an infected person does not help anybody, and I fear that some of the members of our coalition are in it for themselves and do not take as much pain as the people here on HP (together with the editors who make sure only the best work is featured). But to be honest, I have no idea how Maven operates their channels and what freedom the individual contributors have. Anything that is done can be undone, so there is no drawback to trying this out. If it does work, it would be amazing. I'm looking forward to what people have to say after the upcoming conference.

      You guys have been doing a bunch of crazy stuff, I really wish I could be there working with you guys, sounds like an intense, but interesting environment to be in.

  10. Urbane Chaos profile image95
    Urbane Chaosposted 19 months ago

    As always, I'm cautiously optimistic.  I admit, I've backed everything up and have purchased a couple domain names to be on the safe side, but from what I'm seeing, everything is moving forward for the betterment of the community as well as for more profits. 

    There are things that I'm not excited about, but at the same time, there's a lot more positives than negatives.  In the end, it's about gaining readers, being part of a community, and, well, yes, a bit of extra profit.

  11. Beth Eaglescliffe profile image98
    Beth Eaglescliffeposted 19 months ago

    I'm a bit confused by the idea of these widgets.
    If the widget "relates" articles across the entire ecosystem that is Maven, won't Google see the Maven family as one big content website (and therefore penalize it?)

    1. lobobrandon profile image91
      lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

      I had a feeling people would see it this way, that is why I replied to Pauls comment keeping this in mind. If there is a penalty because of this, it is easily removed by removing the links. So there is no harm in testing it out. As long as all the sites are high quality there should be no harm. They could also use no-follow links. I'm curious to see what these experiments look like.

      1. Shesabutterfly profile image96
        Shesabutterflyposted 19 months agoin reply to this

        High quality content is key though is it not? I understand it's a beta and can always be reversed if it doesn't work, but I wouldn't consider all of Maven high quality content, and some sites have not seen new content in months. Sounds like you agree to an extent, "I don't think Maven is one of the best sites on the internet. The content they have is not the best and many of their channels have 0 traffic (this would be unfeatured on HP)."  so I'm curious why you think it's worth trying out? If we know some of their channels have 0 traffic, it sounds like HP is helping Maven rather than everyone (maven/HP) helping each other.

        I'm very skeptical, but interested in what the beta will look like. I don't know if you've been to themaven.net recently but the homepage has already changed and you can get to hp niche sites from there.

        1. lobobrandon profile image91
          lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

          Yes, this is what I fear, and I personally do not think this is a good idea. I just wanted to point out that from a Google SEO perspective, this can be fixed. Maven needs the HP traffic, and it was only natural for them to want to get some of the traffic to their channels. But, if this results in overall drops in traffic across the board they are not going to be happy either and will see that it's not the best option.

          But, on the other hand, if it does work out, it would be a good thing.

          I personally would not do this nor spend time working on a system to do this if I had any decision making powers, but I do not have all the facts nor data that Paul and the other people have, and I trust that they are only making good calls. The experiment and alpha/beta tests will tell us if this is a good or bad thing.

          EDIT: I do not see anything on themaven.net home page. Just an option to search for your Maven? Where do you see the niche sites.

          1. Shesabutterfly profile image96
            Shesabutterflyposted 19 months agoin reply to this

            That makes sense. Thanks for clarifing a little further. I hope we all (both sites) will get some good new traffic from the beta tests.

            You don't actually see the niche sites, but if you click on any of the down topics from the search your maven (Outdoors- Hunting & Shooting for example will take you to skyaboveus) you will be transferred to either a HP niche site or a maven channel.

            1. lobobrandon profile image91
              lobobrandonposted 19 months agoin reply to this

              Yup, this is what I assumed smile Thanks.

  12. Rupert Taylor profile image96
    Rupert Taylorposted 19 months ago

    The general consensus seems to be positive, but I have no understanding of why.

    Phrases such as:

    "Recirculating widgets are intended to engage users across all the sites participating in the ecosystem." Or. "Integrating ad ops" are a complete mystery to me. But, if they float the boat, go for it.

    I'll stick to my area of expertise, writing, and I'll leave the boffins to pursue the dark arts of Internet branding. Seems like a sensible approach to me.

  13. Daughter Of Maat profile image95
    Daughter Of Maatposted 19 months ago

    Whatever we're doing is working crazy good because my revenue has doubled in the past seven days. If the changes proposed keep people on the pages longer and increase revenue more than it is now, it can't be that bad... big_smile

  14. Samantha Sinclair profile image80
    Samantha Sinclairposted 19 months ago

    Is Robin no longer working at Hubpages/Maven? She has not responded to my last email to her, and that was sent a little over two weeks ago.

  15. alexadry profile image91
    alexadryposted 19 months ago

    Thanks so much for the update Paul. It is nice to hear that so much is being done to improve quality and user experience for visitors so that they can stay longer on the website. Highs and lows are the norm for Internet content, but whatever is being done is working so far and yielding excellent results.

  16. Randy Godwin profile image91
    Randy Godwinposted 18 months ago

    Great job, Paul and staff. I trust you guys to do what's best after being here going on ten years now and experiencing your good decisions during tough times on HP. Thanks! smile

  17. Phyllis Doyle profile image93
    Phyllis Doyleposted 18 months ago

    Well done, Paul and Staff. Thank you for keeping us informed of ongoing steps forward. I am proud to be a part of this exciting venture.

  18. Randy Godwin profile image91
    Randy Godwinposted 18 months ago

    Hey Phyllis, how are you? smile

  19. paperfacets profile image90
    paperfacetsposted 18 months ago

    The conversation gets too fancy, Paul. You said, "That’s part of the reason we are so strict on links, products and other things that can appear spammy". But isn't the widgets working with "related articles" just links? And increasing revenue is positioning ads, I would think. 

    Are you saying we are working on linking and ads on Maven/HP side, so spammy elements from self serving writers are not flooding the Hubs? So far, I have seen an uptick on earnings, so the widgets and revenue work is making gains. Thank you!

    Just wondering. It seems that I do get sales through Amazon on old modules/widgets that the editors like to delete. 8% to 10% is a nice return. Maybe a new look for those style modules would be advantagous. Do stats show good results with the Amazon link we now use for text links to Amazon products?

  20. Margie Lynn profile image95
    Margie Lynnposted 18 months ago

    Thanks for the update Paul!

  21. GiftsByDiana profile image52
    GiftsByDianaposted 18 months ago

    Thanks for the update.
    Here's hoping for good things to come for all of us.

  22. PaulGoodman67 profile image97
    PaulGoodman67posted 18 months ago

    My HP ad income is better than ever! If this new model is stable then I'm very happy. However, we've experienced such a roller-coaster ride over the years, including some pretty dramatic falls, I can't quite dispel all the anxiety. smile

    1. wilderness profile image95
      wildernessposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      For those of us that experienced that roller coaster known as "Panda" and it's successors, and the almost total feeling of helplessness to do anything about it, that anxiety will never go away.  Change is a constant, and doubly so for internet projects - "stable" can mean little more than "it worked for a few months".

      1. PaulGoodman67 profile image97
        PaulGoodman67posted 18 months agoin reply to this

        Certainly Autumn 2015 through to Spring 2017 were pretty good for me and pretty stable. Then I suffered another decline which I am only just now near to  recovering from. If I can exceed previous earnings and do that consistently I will be happy, I just don't know if I dare to hope. Haha!

        1. Chriswillman90 profile image96
          Chriswillman90posted 18 months agoin reply to this

          Spring 2017 was indeed very rough, really curious to see how April-May turn out compared to last year.

          I wish Hubpages could show the top 5 earners per month, anonymously of course, to show everybody what the potential could be and where we all stand. It could also highlight how each month differs.

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 18 months agoin reply to this

            So far I'm about double what I was this time last year.  I may be a very happy camper this year!

            Top earners - Paul started a thread not too long ago saying there was a problem with the monthly paypal payments over $10,000 and that there were several hubbers at or near that level.  Is that "top" enough? I'm so far under that it isn't even of real interest! big_smile

            1. PaulGoodman67 profile image97
              PaulGoodman67posted 18 months agoin reply to this

              Hubpages used to print graphs showing the number of views over time for a select group of hubbers. It gave a rough indication of how things were going. But they stopped that.

              The big change for me is that most of my money came from Amazon until Spring 2017. Nowadays I'm earning more from Hub Ads.

            2. TessSchlesinger profile image94
              TessSchlesingerposted 18 months agoin reply to this

              I'm triple what I was doing this time last year.

            3. Chriswillman90 profile image96
              Chriswillman90posted 18 months agoin reply to this

              Those monthly totals are still so crazy that it's hard to process, but it's good to see so many doing well.

              As much as I wish I had those numbers, I'm happy with how things have gone thus far.

  23. paradigmsearch profile image87
    paradigmsearchposted 18 months ago

    I must say, I'm starting to get inspired about all this. For those who missed it: https://www.themaven.net/the-maven/pres … 2FU_ZG3og/

    Next evergreen article I write, I'll give HP first shot at it.

    1. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
      DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Interesting.
      I did not realize that a third entity is now involved. I have my fingers crossed for the jumps I've had in my i come to continue.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image87
        paradigmsearchposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        It really looks like each party has attributes that can be major used to contribute to the other two.

      2. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
        DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        Gah--I see a major typo in my earlier comment; that's what comes of trying to type with one finger on my Kindle....
        Obviously, "...i come..." was supposed to be, "...income..."

    2. TessSchlesinger profile image94
      TessSchlesingerposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      what do say media do? Their blurb is too generalized on their link.

      1. paradigmsearch profile image87
        paradigmsearchposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        There's more, but the thing that stuck in my mind was the direct sales and that they have been at it for over a decade.

    3. paradigmsearch profile image87
      paradigmsearchposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      .
      An update.

      Hark! I've actually come up with an article idea! Needless to say, I am now suddenly and keenly interested in a certain network site. I was going to start a thread asking people's opinions/experiences about/with said site, but I think I'll wait until after April 1st. big_smile

      Meanwhile, am a happy camper as to March traffic and earnings. Can't help but wonder how much Maven and Say Media behind-the-scenes general activities already contributed to it. Despite historical seasonal traffic drops, am looking forward to a prosperous summer.

  24. lobobrandon profile image91
    lobobrandonposted 18 months ago

    I really like the goal of the three companies as conveyed from the video.

  25. Kenna McHugh profile image89
    Kenna McHughposted 18 months ago

    l like the idea, too. I really want to see it in application - talk the talk, walk the walk.

  26. carolynkaye profile image96
    carolynkayeposted 18 months ago

    Thank you for the update, Paul.

  27. Dan Dildy profile image88
    Dan Dildyposted 18 months ago

    Overall, this is great news. Since first hearing of the negotiations, I've purposefully put a hold on pending articles. Now it appears that the merger with Maven and Sky will be a hugely beneficial move for everyone involved. Thanks.

    1. theraggededge profile image96
      theraggededgeposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Gosh, all that earning potential put on hold big_smile What was your rationale for doing that? Don't forget they belong to you and you can move them anytime you want to.

      When I heard the news, I wrote as many hubs as I could. And published them. Slowed down a bit lately as I have other projects.

  28. kalinin1158 profile image94
    kalinin1158posted 18 months ago

    I've been on HP for 8 years now. This is where my freelancing writing career began. There's been ups and downs along the way. At some point I almost lost hope and stopped posting. But these last couple of years I really see the growth not only of my readership but of the site as a whole. HP didn't collapse like many other content-sharing platforms, it actually evolved and expanded. I'm very hopeful about the future and I will continue writing articles on this platform because I love it.

  29. Halley Indonesia profile image51
    Halley Indonesiaposted 18 months ago

    Feeling excited can be part of you all. to share positive things for all people about meaningful new things.

  30. MickeySr profile image81
    MickeySrposted 18 months ago

    Staff ~

    I have a batch of articles I've written for HubPages, but I haven't published through HubPages for a good while - here's why and my question for you; I joined HubPages as a writing community, and place where people with both creative ideas, takes on things, and people who can simply write, express themselves in a manner others would delight to read - but HubPages came to be seen by me as a place where a good number of people who simply want to write, and be read, were writing articles on 'how to get more traffic' and playing a in tit-for-tat 'I'll click buttons on your article if you click buttons on my article' type of community. 

    There is a community of genuine writers here, there are tons of folks who do have something to say and say it well - but it seemed to me (when I faded away from here) that the focus, the flavor of HubPages was 'Hubbers' talking to each other about HubPages and how to 'work it best for success' while back-and-forth encouraging each other whether encouragement to write was genuinely warranted or not.

    So my question is, with the revamp ahead, should I try HubPages again or should I just look elsewhere, is the role of Maven's HubPages going to be to tweak Hubber's capacity for self-promotion and increased revenue, or is writing, the skill and gift of writing, going to be the focus and flavor? I hope this doesn't sound as bitchy to others as it kind of sounds to me - there's a place for everyone and (I'm poor) I should definitely be considering how to make money from my writing, I'm just honestly asking if HubPages is the right place for me.

    1. TessSchlesinger profile image94
      TessSchlesingerposted 18 months agoin reply to this

      Mickey Sr, I know you asked HP staff for this, but I would like to respond.

      I first joined HP in 2010/11 and did very well - earning my first $300 in three months. I left in under a year because I couldn't stand the nastiness and trolling coming from religious nutcases and members of the GOP.

      The second time I came back was when another site was bought by HP. It took me about 18 months to write here again, and then the path to earning was slower.

      In all of that time, I have never thought of HP as anything but a place to earn money.

      Perhaps, at some point, there was a community of people here who wanted to talk about writing and how to improve one's writing. Personally, I have been published in one form or another since I was about 10 years old, and I'm now closer to 70 than 60. I have never, in all that time, ever had any desire whatsoever to 'improve my writing' or speak to other people about my writing. In fact, I have a community of friends who are writers, one of them an international bestselling auhor. In all the years, none of us have ever spoken about improving our writing.

      So I want to ask you something here.

      If you an write, and if you are writing to a publishable standard, why are you not interested in earning money?

      1. MickeySr profile image81
        MickeySrposted 18 months agoin reply to this

        Tess,

        I think perhaps, both, I didn't express myself flawlessly and perhaps we simply are coming for two quite different places. Just in order of your comments;

        I don't want to be bothered with any manner of trolling or nutcases (religious or secular, GOP or Dems), and apart from trollers, I'm happy to chat with religious or secular, Republican or Democrat members.

        I have only vaguely, in the back of my mind, thought of HubPages as a place to earn money. I say vaguely and in the back of my mind because, I wouldn't mind at all earning an income writing - but when I do write I write from within myself and not from an interest to make money.

        My interest here was not at all to read about "how to improve one's writing" or "how to" anything, but to write and read among others who write and read writing . . . "writing" as in expressions of what's in the hearts and minds of others, not "how to write" stuff.

        So, as I say, I would prefer to make money writing than to not make money writing, but I will write regardless. I'm not asserting this as any manner of virtue or pristine apprehension of writing, etc - I merely acknowledge that, when I do write, I write what is in me to write without calculating what will be so well received that I could expect some manner of payment.

        Like, as an example of my writing as I saw it compared to lots of other writing here; I would write something on Blues Music, puritan theology, classic Hollywood films, etc, because I'm interested in those things, and because I'm interested in those things I know about those things, and because I know about those things I would share my understanding of them in my writing.

        Time and time again I would get (very friendly and 'encouraging') comments about how much research I did for the article, how interesting the article was because of all the investigation I obviously waded through - I never did any research, I wasn't writing something I hoped would be of interest, I didn't pick a current 'hot' topic and packaged research on it expecting tons of hits . . . I simply wrote about what I am interested in and so, what I know about.

        I am interested in earning money - I'm just not as interested in, or prompted by, earning money as I am expressing/sharing my genuine thoughts and feelings. My fading away from HubPages was because so much of it seemed aimed at "how to improve your writing - so you can earn more money". So my original question here was; is the new HubPages going to be framed around "how to improve your writing so you can earn more money" or is it going to be framed more as a place where writers write?

        1. EricFarmer8x profile image95
          EricFarmer8xposted 18 months agoin reply to this

          You might get more enjoyment out having a personal blog or website then. You can still make a little money and you wont have to worry any sort of quality control or requirements at all.

    2. Dan Dildy profile image88
      Dan Dildyposted 18 months ago

      I’m with you regarding your concerns. We’ll see where the revised integration with Maven and Sky takes the community of Huber’s; we could all use the income if good, interesting writing becomes the primary focus of the merger. I remain hopeful.

    3. Halley Indonesia profile image51
      Halley Indonesiaposted 18 months ago

      Nice explanation Miss Tess, Thanks for advice, maybe i can learn and took your spirit. give me your spirit, with your HP. nice read your talking.

    4. DzyMsLizzy profile image94
      DzyMsLizzyposted 18 months ago

      I've been on here for 8 years, almost non-stop, and I've only just recently begun reaching the payment threshhold every month.  It's definitely not a 'get-rich-quick' scheme.
      It does take work, practice of your craft, and being willing to go back and re-edit some articles with a fresh eye after a couple of months or years.

      As far as the nastiness, I've found very little of that; I have a small cadre of people here whom I consider my friends here on HP, even though I've never met them in person.  All of them have been nothing but helpful, encouraging, and yes, critical, but politely and helpfully so when it was called for.

      Yes, there are some trolls, extremists of one sort and another, but avoiding them is simply a matter of picking and choosing carefully which forums you choose to enter.  Stay out of the political and religious arenas, and the rest are filled with pretty nice people.

    5. Lord of Poetry profile image53
      Lord of Poetryposted 18 months ago

      Interesting development.  Thanks for continuing to apprise us about it.

    6. TessSchlesinger profile image94
      TessSchlesingerposted 18 months ago

      Mickey,

      You said, “…is it going to be framed more as a place where writers write?”
      I would say no. That’s not where the emphasis is. The emphasis is on making money. Hubpages has to make money otherwise it will go out of business. And the writing has to be top notch – a professional standard – in order to stay in business. As you have noticed, I am sure, hubpages is about the only content site still in business. I think Wizzley might still be going, but you won’t earn a penny there.
      Writing is simply a sort of talking. The difference between writing and talking is that we can ‘talk’ without there being an interruption and if someone doesn’t want to ‘listen’, then they don’t have to read it.
      What I’m hearing loud and clear is that you have oodles of stuff inside you and you want to get it out – to give it body and life. And the way the written word gets body and life (for you) is for other people to read and be involved or learn something from what you have said. That gives meaning to your life – a sort of solidity to who you are.
      I need to get paid for my writing because that is the only way I can earn money, so it’s very important to me.
      This does not mean I do not enjoy writing and that something in me isn’t satisfied by writing. Where we differ, however, is that I have no need for other people to read what I write. If I didn’t have to earn money, I’d be quite happy just to write it and let it be. It’s not necessary for it to be read by another.
      There is no reason why you shouldn’t ‘write from within yourself.’ What writer doesn’t? We all do that. Writers are introverted. They are thinkers. They all write from within. That doesn’t in any way mean that they shouldn’t be earning money from doing that.

      I’m not one of those people who read ‘writing.’ In that sense, I have no interest in writing. For me, writing is a tool to accomplish other things. It is a tool to communicate. It is a tool to earn an income. It is a tool sort out problems. It’s simply a method to accomplishing something else – even it is using poetry to express deep emotions.
      I’m always bewildered by some who thing that if one makes money from one’s writing that somehow one’s writing is less pure. Nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is that if one is not making money from one’s writing, it’s generally not very good writing. Nor is there anything moral or holy, etc. about not expecting money from one’s writing.
      When a doctor diagnoses a patient, he certainly expects to be paid for his service. It doesn’t mean that his service is second rate because he does it for a living.
      I am interested in many things, and precisely because I am interested, I research them. It’s not my opinion that is important. To me, it’s the factual information that is important, and so I link quite a bit of what I write to the sources where I find them. I would never pass on information to my readers that is simply based on my opinion. I research everything I write. I check and double check and triple check. Over the years, doing that, I have also gained a great deal of general knowledge. I enjoy that.
      So, again, coming back to your question, “So my original question here was; is the new HubPages going to be framed around "how to improve your writing so you can earn more money" or is it going to be framed more as a place where writers write?”

      You may well garner readers on hubpages, but most of the traffic comes from Google and other search engines. And I know from the hubpage group on facebook that most people don’t get paid here. They just enjoy the writing.
      That said, Hubpages is now a professional media site with professional standards. The good writing is moved to the vertical/niche sites and the rest remains on hubpages. The vertical sites are the ones that generate the most money.

     
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