Does it seem like the spammers are getting smarter?

1. 65

   C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years ago

   Usually the first thing I do when I log on here  is to check out the 'New' hubs to see what's going on. I also usually end up flagging spammy hubs along the way. The thing is that the spammers seem to be following the rules, so I'm not even  really sure whether to flag them anymore or not. For example, the criteria  for "spam"  when we flag something is "solely promotes one product or website, especially when all links point to one site" (or something to that effect). But, most of the hubs I see lately that are clearly spammy use only one link to whatever site they're promoting, and then add in a news or amazon capsule, so that they have links other than their own on the hub.
   
   I've been flagging them anyway. What about you guys?---I know several of you flag, too. Are you flagging them as Spam even if they only have one link going to their site, or are you letting more slide by? Should we be flagging these hubs? (for Paul or Jason, if you're around).
   
   Just wondering

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2. 44

   coolbreezeposted 16 years ago

   I dont understand flaging a hub as spam? I can see flagging the because they suck
   
   But flagging them as spam ?
   
   I suppose this means the the person put up the hub just to get traffic to their affiliate program?
   
   Some hubs that are done by hubbers with over all scores in the 90s look like spam to me.
   
   They have 2-3 images less that 500 words of text are created with a key phrase just to get on the search engines.
   
   To me spam would be someone that has deliberately made a series of hubs hooked them all together with internal links to get higher ratings in the search engine for their personal website.
   
   I am not sure what Paul says is spam.
   
   Spammers are the ones who send everyone on the web an email daily.

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3. 89

   gamergirlposted 16 years ago

   I disagree, coolbreeze.
   
   To me, spam hubs are those that promote a product or business in an advertisement fashion.  In my opinion, if I see a hubber whose sole purpose is to promote products they are peddling or affiliate sites they've joined, they get marked by me as spam.  Hubpages is a site whose purpose, to me, is for people to write about things about which they are knowledgeable, or about things they love.  I just don't see Hubpages as somewhere you go to sign up and get free advertising. 
   
   If you want to advertise, pay for it.  Don't misuse a community by trying to turn it into your free ad space.

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4. 65

   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   Ummm, all my hubs are spam then Three of them do promote my personal site, and fourth is an affiliate hub...
   
   Probably that's why I never flag anybody else's hub...

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      C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Misha,
      
      I've read your hubs. Even though you do link eventually to your own site or affiliate, you provide useful info in your hubs. One doesn't need to go to your site to benefit, they've already gotten information from you, and can go to your site if they want more.
      
      Here's an example of what I'm talking about. I flagged a hub this  morning called "kitchen chairs." The text was rambling  paragraph about how everyone should have furniture in their kitchen---all opinion/selling, nothing that would be useful to anyone. They linked to their kitchen furniture site, and added a news hub at the end. To me, this is  spam. I learned nothing of use, and I don't think anyone else would either. But,  they're not loading up the hub with links the way they used to----probably because they started reading the rules about what constitutes "spam" on hubpages. So they're kind of technically  following the rules,  while still getting free advertising in.

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5. 44

   coolbreezeposted 16 years ago

   I understand what you are saying.  Could post or email me one that qualifies under your guide lines please. Thank you.
   
   I guess its a fine line because this network would not survive if people didn't write relavent content that got indexed. No matter what the theme is.
   
   I wonder what % of hubpages income comes from internal users. If you blocked the IPs of registered users from clicking on adsense and being cookied from Ebay and Amazon
   I think hubpages would die. Just my opinion.
   
   Clearly they are here to exploit web 2.0 and make money as long as Google allows this type of activity.  If not they would be set up like Craigslist  NO ads.
   
   
   I have never flagged a hub I am not sure what it accomplishes?  Do they delete it ?
   
   Ha ha Misha   How about your pal Sun Seven ;-)

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      Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      SunSeven is in Hall of Fame. We are not supposed to question what deities do, you know

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6. 65

   Mishaposted 16 years ago

   Colleen,
   
   I was challenging Charlotte's definition mainly, I think it's just too vague how it's outlined here I don't think she uses it exactly as described, though
   
   But I really do not flag hubs. And don't give minuses. Not only hubs, everything online. I give pluses, though
   
   I did such things at the start of my online life, but then I found out that it is much better for my sanity to restrict myself only to the positive side...

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7. 65

   C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years ago

   Okay. I consider this spam:
   http://hubpages.com/hub/xtreme-wealth-package-review
   
   And this:
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Valentine-s-jewelry
   (for the record, this hubber has 21 hubs, all about the exact  same thing, just with different text)
   
   The first one is obvious spam to me: hardly any text, link to some affiliate thingy.  The second looks like an  actual hub at first glance, but all it is is a really long sales pitch.
   
   Am I being really picky, or would you consider it spam, too?

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   1. 65

      Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Colleen,
      I think everybody has his/her own definition. What matters at the end, is what HP staff considers spam - they have the last say as they own the place. I do cut what I consider spam on my own sites without any reservation
      
      But here I leave this to the site owners, and I do not help them in this. There are people who will help community in this sense, I just do not consider this to be my thing.

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8. 44

   coolbreezeposted 16 years ago

   He he Sorry ;-)  Those are the ones I question the most ;-)
   
   Your great Misha Love you Man!

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      Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Rik, I admire you, too

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9. 89

   gamergirlposted 16 years ago

   C.M.  Those are the kinds of hubs I was defining. I don't think Hubpages is a place for advertisements, it's more a place to share what you know. 
   
   But then, that is my opinion, and may not be the opinion of others.

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   1. 65

      C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Well, we're of the same opinion  then I guess  what I'm really wondering is whether it's worth flagging hubs like this,  or if I'm flagging stuff that Hubpages doesn't see as a big problem.

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10. 58

    BassGuruposted 16 years ago

    Spammers are always getting smarter (my lastest blog post talks about a scarily clever type of spam http://sqoo.tumblr.com/post/23600647).
    
    The cleverest spam I have seen on here is of the type '20 top paying keywords" where a list of keywords that a spammer wants to rank with are listed along with some vaugely relevant but non specific text, and of course and an affiliate link. Its difficult to decide whether such a post is spam (the fact that each of the keywords are related and not top paying gives it away IMHO).
    
    BUT, I think that one of the motivators for people to publish on Hubpages is that it can be used for affiliate selling and other offsite linking, that doesn't mean it should be alowed to be abused, the exchange is that you get a link or two for producing GOOD CONTENT.

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    1. 65

       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I agree, BassGuru. I have affiliate links on my hubs too.  I want to make  money just as much as anyone else You're right: the key is to create  good, useful content, and then hopefully you'll be rewarded with some  affiliate sales. But my links only come  as part of a thoughtfully researched, coherently written hub. There's value for the reader,  not just for me, and  I think that's the key.

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11. 63

    highwaystarposted 16 years ago

    Thanks, I hear ya all loud and clear and agree...there's a limit to spam and how much can be tolerated, there's a time and place for free advertising...
    
    Technically everyone of you guys has earned your right to voice your opinions, a valid point without being judge, jury and executioner...
    
    Respectfully, may I suggest...how about getting off the hubpage police squad and get on with the job of writing good informative and relevant articles.
    
    If someone wants to spam, good luck to em', do you think they're gonna gain customers, or get decent click thrus or the glory of being part of this living and breathing community.
    
    I mean who really gives a darn about these losers, do they really affect you...anyway?
    
    Look forward to reading more of your super-fine articles, cheers!

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    1. 65

       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       They affect those of us who
       
       #1. Honesty care about this community and the people in it.
       #2. Know that if Hubpages becomes a place for spammers to come for free links, it diminishes Hubpages reputation. If Hubpages is known as a place to find quality information without all of the garbage you find elsewhere on the net, it's good for everyone. I would assume this is why we've been encouraged by the owners of Hubpages to flag spam and  low quality hubs.

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12. 58

    BassGuruposted 16 years ago

    The problem Highwaystar is that spam needs checking constantly otherwise good quality content will drown in a sea of viagra promoters.
    
    You have to have a proactive anti spam system for a web2 site as they are particularly vunerable to spam. So all those people who flag spam on HP are extremely valuable.
    
    I guess it would help if you got a reply from a moderator when you have made an inapropiate flagging, explaining why they let the page continue on the site.

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13. 66

    relacheposted 16 years ago

    I've been flagging a LOT of new hubs which have just lifted all their copy from other sites.  There's one user who really likes to just copy whole articles from the Mayo Clinic site and then repost them here.  Also, a lot of UK travel sites are getting ripped off too.
    
    When someone starts whipping out huge Hubs, and they are published only a minute apart, it's often a big red flag that the person is just a copy-paste thief.
    
    And then there's the UK promotional company which has now made about 388 Hubs and has a rating of 18 overall.  Now that's some world-class spamming.

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       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Yep, there are plenty of those copy-paste thieves on here. I logged on yesterday and the entire first page of the "Latest" hubs was all one hubbers hubs. And part of the second page, too. And he had something like 88 hubs up in only six days.

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    2. STAFF

       pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       That author has been technically within our guidelines but isn't likely to be getting much value out of their efforts.  When the Hubber score is below 75 all links in all hubs by the author will have nofollow applied (which means no, or very little benefit in search engine rankings).
       
       We've made pretty good strides in identifying problem behaviors and feeding that back into the HubScore and Hubber Score.  In some ways that is easier to do than actually removing the content.
       
       However, we do still very much appreciate all the flagging.  We look at every hub that has been flagged and determine whether it meets our (admittedly somewhat low) standards.
       
       Hub production and new user signups are at record levels right now, so there are a lot of new HubPages users in the mix these days.  There is a bit of a learning curve for them as to what is allowed and what works (despite are best efforts to educate them).

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14. 44

    coolbreezeposted 16 years ago

    Thank you Paul  You have cleared up alot of issues I was wondering about.
    I wasnt aware of the no follow rule. I see it used on many networks.
    
    If this rule was published and people knew about it might it deter people from creating undesirable hubs?

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15. 65

    C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years ago

    Thanks Paul!

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16. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    It is covered pretty well in the FAQ.  We have intentionally avoided drawing firm lines in some areas because all that tends to do is cause people with ill intent to tread just on one side of the line.
    
    The guiding principle is -- if you are making a genuine and positive contribution to the community you shouldn't run into much trouble.  If you are exploiting HubPages for your own gain and to the detriment of the community then you will run into trouble.

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17. 44

    coolbreezeposted 16 years ago

    Makes sense  Thank you Paul

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18. 65

    C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years ago

    So, it sounds like the solution on our end is to keep flagging if we want to, and then give questionable hubs a thumbs-down as well (Jason suggested that when I emailed him about an iffy hub). I think I've only given two or three thumbs-down since I've been here. Maybe I'll start using it more now.

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19. 71

    William F. Torpeyposted 16 years ago

    Paul, you mention here that a hubber score below 75 is, in effect, punished. I know that scores on hubs themselves reflect several factors, but what is the relationship between a hubber's score and the scores of individual hubs. Many of my hub scores are below 75; how much significance should I attach to that?

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20. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    William -- hubs with a score below 75 are nothing to worry about.  Hubs that aren't getting much ongoing traffic are likely to fall down there, but that's ok.  HubScore is determined primarily by the hubs themselves -- the traffic, the content, the links, the thumbs up and down, etc.  Your Hubber score considers many factors about your hubs in aggregate, plus other contributions you make to the community (such as forums, comments, etc.).

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21. 71

    William F. Torpeyposted 16 years ago

    Thanks, Paul. You're always johnny-on-the-spot!

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