Is Hubpages Trying To Grow Too Fast?

1. 47

   HealthTipposted 14 years ago

   Another example is a Hubber I spotted that just hit 1,000 views today after being a member for 3 months and writing 95 Hubs picking up just 1 fan. You do the maths on that one !

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2. 82

   Whitney05posted 14 years ago

   It's not HubPages responsibility to teach people to do anything- SEO tactics or writing. It's your own responsibility.
   
   
   To me, you're jumping from one argument to another. You're either happy here or your not. If you're not, then just go away. I'm sorry, but goodness...

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      Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is not their responsibility to teach people how to write, that is the responsibility of schools. But it is their interests for people to understand how to make money from their hubs, before they slap 60 worthless hubs on keyword rich URLs before leaving the site because they arent making any money. Those URLs can then not be utilised by somebody who knows how to make a few dollars from it, can you not at least see that?
      
      I dont know if you were addressing me or not, but if you have read the whole thread, and indeed if you had access to my email inbox... then you would find that many people agree with my point. When you come onto a large thread and dont quote text, it makes it difficult for me to respond, but my original post was representative of quite a few peoples opinions and ocncerns. Sorry if that bothers you. As it happens I enjoy writing here at hubpages, does that mean that I cannot have concern for the long term future of the site? Because that is all it is.

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         Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry if you were not replying to me, but if you were... then I guess my response stands.

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      2. 81

         Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Reminds me of the BMW plant in Oxford, the one that makes Minis. They started an employee suggestion box and received some great ideas - a few small and easily implemented changes saved them tens of thousands of dollars every week.
         
         Never really bought this 'if you don't like it, then leave' idea. The HP team have a broad range of expertise - however, they cannot know everything, and a fresh perspective can often bring about constructive change.
         
         Although I have been here a while, I am pretty new to the SEO thing - I did find it a little difficult to find the best information about optimisation

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3. 47

   HealthTipposted 14 years ago

   It's a joke asking Hubpages to teach you how to write, it's a bit like going out for a meal and asking the waiter whether to use your knife or spoon. Whitney, you summed it up !

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4. 0

   bloodnlatexposted 14 years ago

   The whole concept of relying on Hubpages to teach you how to write is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of.  Yeah, if you need someone's opinion on what you've written, this is the place to be.  But it's not an online college course.

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      Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Who has even said this though? Are these comments aimed at me? Because I am not saying that hubpages should teach anybody to write, I am saying that people need to be aware before they write 90 hubs that there are things they need to take into consideration. Google keyword tools, SEO, backlinking, tagging, summaries, etc etc. Are you replying to somebody else?

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         HealthTipposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         He was replying to someone else a few posts back mate.

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            Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh I see.... ok fair enough.

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5. 59

   Helen Caterposted 14 years ago

   If someone is really that unhappy with writing at hubpages, maybe a change of venue is needed. If I were that peeved with them I would be outta there like a shot. I never exspected hubpages to teach me how to write. I thought they, and all the writers would help me, and I have not been disapointed. I have tried other sites but they are no patch on hubpages. I have every faith that a system will come into place as hubpages grows bigger, to rid themselves of the poorer hubs, but this takes time and man power. I have no complaints as everyone here has helped and supported me from the beggining, and I would like to think I have improved from my earlier atempts at writing.

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      Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are in the perfect position then Helen, as somebody that has relied on others passing on knowledge... which you yourself have stated before. A lot of that knowledge can be inconsistant. Do you not believe that as a new hubber, there could have been some sort of resource which advised you on how best to make money from your hubs before you wrote them? Just a section of the website that helped you learn stuff about SEO, keywords, etc? I think that you are a good example of somebody that has had to learn from others and yet would have benefitted from having some sort of resource that educated you in things other than writing? I know that I would.

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         Helen Caterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Of course, I had the most help from fellow hubbers like yourself. I was told by hubpages to make use of this information, but a crash course would have been fab. I had to find other ways to find the info I needed, and on the rare times I did ask for help on something I just couldn't find, yourself and others helped me through. There was only one person who slammed me for asking and in all fairness to me, before I asked the question I had tried hard to look through the FAQs, but could not see the answers. I think a team of top hubbers that can guide new users through the system, would be a great start, and if the information was there from hubpages at the outset it would have saved me weeks of slogging through hubs to find the ones that mattered. As a newbie I had no idea if the information I was reading was true, or false, so yes again I would agree that something official from hubpages would have made things a whole lot easier, but then I think am I not a better writer for SEO by not having it on a plate, because without reading all the bull I would not have found out a good few tips. it's a matter of weeding out the bad and finding the needle in the haystack.

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         broussardleslieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         As someone who is also new to HP, I would say that I could benefit from a section on monetizing my hubs.
         
         I went out and bought a book yesterday, as I told all of you that I plan to improve my current hubs rather than write more.

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6. 81

   Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

   I largely agree, although reiterate my earlier point - it would be nice to have some kind of index of resources in one place. There are many SEO tips scattered around the forums and it can be quite difficult to find them, even for experienced Hubbers.
   
   Same with the 'how to write' - if you haven't got it, you never will. However, there is always something new to learn - myself included. I am thinking of little tips and fine adjustments rather than writing 101
   
   Hubpages has a lot of Hubs written by experts on marketing and writing - it would be little extra work to gather some of this wealth of information in one place

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      HealthTipposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Deff a great idea Sufi, I have learnt loads from other writers on here and am still learning. Only today I printed out a great piece on Long Tailed Keywords. All the info is there within the website but I like your idea of gathering it in one place, I do think it might be more difficult than you think though but nice idea !

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7. 61

   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   Okay - got my Armour (bullet proof).
   
   1) Totally agree with Mark, we need to work as a community if we want this place to survive.
   
   2) We need to flag hubs, we need to do it when we have time, but at least make an effort.  We also need to rate the hubs Up or Down, I may not leave comments, but be sure I rate hubs I like UP!
   
   3) While giving tutorials on SEO and banklinks is a nice idea, there is plenty of GREAT information already written on these subjects - maybe some of the hubbers who have written these hubs would be willing to make forum posts about them and have them stickied on the top of the forum or a hub staff could easily do this too - if they are stuck at the top, people have the info at their fingertips when they come into the forum, without having to try and find the info in a subforum.
   
   4) Everyone needs to remember the HP is a business, their bottom line is their first priority.  With that said, the writers should really be given equal priority if HP wants to keep building a substantial business.  Our writing is putting money in their pockets, my pockets are empty.
   
   5) I think picture hubs should be removed completely if there is less than 200 words written within the hub.
   
   Yesterday, I received a comment from a hubber, went to check out their profile....in 60 days he/she have over 200 fans, it took me months to get 100. I viewed some of the 60 hubs, some were well written, others were written in terrible English - like two completely different writing styles. I rated and shook my head.  This person was on a fanning spree, and yes has some very popular hubbers on his/her list of fans. So who is encouraging who? 
   
   I need to make some money point blank.  I'm spreading myself out, I have to.  Its good to know that my fellow hubbers have my back & I have yours, but it doesn't put money in the bank.  So there is a huge part of me that is very selfish.

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      Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I have to agree with pretty much all of that, particularly point 4, the relationship between writer and hubpages has mutual benefits. So anything that may effect the earning potential of the site is the business of the writer, which is my point. None of us are writing content for hubpages to become Squidoo.... as simple as.

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8. 61

   Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

   Helen,  there is one person (actually several) who continuously slam newbie questions - sometimes I wonder if it is a game tactic to see if they have tough enough skin to stick around - or this person(s) simply doesn't want anymore competition.

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      Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah we all know who that is Jane, no prizes for guessing!

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9. 59

   Helen Caterposted 14 years ago

   Ah so you know whom I mean and no I don't take offense because it's not just me, but everyone and I wonder why you would bother answering a thread in a help section if you were not prepared to help but belittle the person asking. Guess that's how they get their kicks.

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      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Wait until you answer several hundred questions about why their ads do not show what they want them to show, and then judge.

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         Helen Caterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think you missed my point and twisted it round. I said if someone asks for help in a help section then that is what you should get..help. If you are fed up of the same questions, then surely you would not bother yourself to go and respond, and leave it to someone who isn't fed up yet. There are loads on here who are willing to help, and those that find it tedious should not bother...simple really. Why make a big issue of letting the person know how you feel about them asking for help.

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, this definitely works for saints. But we are not yet there.
            
            I was in that shoes Helen, honestly trying to help people out. I rarely go there nowadays, because i got fed up of lazy bums who expect everything to be done for them. Somewhere in between I was one of those who barked at noobs for standard questions. And I don't judge those who are in this spot now.

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               Helen Caterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I hope I don't become that way, but for now I know very little so I am no great help to anyone. My reasoning is this...I hate the religious and political forums...I don't go in there and tell them they suck...I stay away. If I hated helping people then I would stay away. My question is why would you bother going in there and tell someone off for asking in a help forum. Should the help topic be taken down? Then where will all the newbies be? Anyways i'm off on my hols tommorrow so it all rates zero on my radar I am far too excited. I agree with you that some people are lazy and want you to tell them which keywords work and I would say read a zillion hubs like I did. That is annoying I must say as I had to work damn hard because I really knew nothing at all.

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                  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  That's what I was trying to explain. You go there to help people. You like to do this. And day after day you get bombarded by idiotic questions from those who don;t bother to read anything what is available. Again, you genuinely come to help. But you see people that don't appreciate your help. Don't appreciate that you already ten times typed the same thing today, and demand you to type it once again, personally for them. I don't know how to explain it further...

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                     frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Good point Misha. That is highly annoying. And even more so when you know damn well they landed either A) within a few hours of posting a 'help me but really I mean do all the hard work for me' question or B) they've been on the site long enough to have read the same things I, you or many others HAD to do.
                     
                     You can be delightfully scathing though However ... the ones you aim your ire at (on occasion)  are usually the ones that disregard your point.
                     
                     Maybe you should try harder
                     
                     And last but not least ... guys don't be so sensitive. If you really do intend to earn money from online writing you just gotta toughen up a bit. More so when you upset the digestion of an online pro.
                     
                     Which I'm not. I'm a frog.

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10. 82

    Whitney05posted 14 years ago

    Ryan, just because you started this post, doesn't mean everything is aimed at you. Kind of conceded don't you think?
    
    Also, it's really not their responsibility to teach people SEO. There are plenty of sources out there, in to some degree no one source is going to be right. Like anything, you'll have to figure out what works best for you. HubPages wouldn't be able to say 'this is the one and only way to do it, so here's how.' The only thing they can do is to direct you to things that have worked for some people, to which there are already many hubs and knowledgeable people here that can do that, as well as many websites that have their methods.
    
    It's sometimes a trial and error. If there is one set guide that people should follow, what happens if it doesn't work? People will still ask, how to implement SEO tactics, which defeats the purpose. It's a place to start, but one guide isn't like one size fits all.
    
    Their responsibility is to keep the site going and keep it profitable for them and for us. We do the work, it's our responsibility to make our own money. They just give us the tools to do it.
    
    
    Maybe you should take the hint and sit out your 3 days, take a breather, and stop creating a thousand profiles just so you can complain.  Sorry just my opinion. Don't jump my case about it because I don't agree with you.
    
    
    
    I do agree that there are other options than the 30 in 30, but you've gone way out of your way from that initial post. You're trying to fight too many battles at once. Have you ever heard of picking your battles? Maybe you should take that into consideration. You can't win them all by firing bullets in every direction.
    
    By the way, I could care less who agrees with you and how many people have said they do. It's just my opinion, and the other people's opinion; it's not our fault if we don't ALL agree with you.

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       Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It's fine with me that you disagree with me, opinions are what forums and discussions are about. But again, I am percieved as being critical of hubpages and the hub team when in fact I am suggesting ways that the system could be improved to deal with growth. I am very happy with the result, in fact I believe that this thread has achieved a lot and there are a few suggestions from people like Sufidreamer which could give the hubpages team some great ideas for profit maximisation. I logged on with this account to respond to this thread because people had addressed me by name. Contrary to creating a thousand profiles, I actually have just two, the last of which was created two months ago for the purpose of writing. Actually, I have a third, which I have 1 hub on and intend to delete at some stage. That one has never been used in the forum, I can be accussed of many things but creating thousands of logins is not something which I am either guilty of or would suit my objectives. If I am guilty of anything in this thread it is being hypocritical, having written 141 hubs in 4 months, I am part of the growth.
       
       I consider myself to be misunderstood, as you are proving. I have no hidden agenda, only suggestions for ways that the site can combat future problems and perhaps become more efficient and profitable. There are some fantastic ideas on this thread, and I cannot see how people like pauldeeds above cant benefit from reading suggestions from some of their best hubbers (e.g. the contributors to this thread). If every one of my suggestions, or concerns, is considered a 'complaint' then it really is a sad day for me. I am not some sort of rebel trying to stir up shit for hubpages. I take it that you haven't experienced a sudden reduction in earnings of up to 50% like Mark Knowles and other experienced hubbers? If you do at any stage, then can I expect you to be on the forum seeking answers? My traffic is doing fantastically, growing faster than you could imagine, but the fact remains that traffic per hub is constantly shrinking and things like backlinking and SEO knowledge can combat that.

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11. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 14 years ago

    We have tried to steer people in the right direction in the HubPages Guide, but there are sites devoted to the subject that are always going to provide a more comprehensive and up to date treatment.
    
    Inevitably some people will have the ability, and put in the time and effort needed to "succeed", but many will not.  All the information you need is just a few forum posts or searches away, but you've got to want to learn, and you need to accept that you aren't going to figure it all out over night.

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       cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       i think you guys are doing great. i love this community because people do express their ideas and sometimes just reading people's suggestions helps immensely.

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          HealthTipposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Seconded !

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       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       And inevitably some people will come to the forums and whine that the sky is falling because Hubpages are not run exactly the way they want.

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          Ryan Kettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And inevitably they will be banned.

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    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    thirded!

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Nah, never seen them banned for that

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14. 81

    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    Must admit, I thought that this was a good thread - it is always positive to bounce ideas around. Some will be unworkable or unfeasible, others will be of little benefit, but there may always be the odd nugget buried away.
    
    Nice to know that the HP team had a read - having constant feedback from all levels of any organisation is always constructive. Very reassuring

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       cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       (nods)
       
       i feel that the HubPages team is active and reads everything and cares about what its members think. i have never felt that they are distant, like how you feel when on a place like Myspace or something. it feels nice and homey

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15. 74

    sunforgedposted 14 years ago

    Im all for quality control and even thought we came up with some great methods in this thread.
    
    It seems a lot of us expereinced an odd traffic decline and are looking for answers and what to do what we can to ensure that our efforts here have the longest possible lifetime
    
    Most of us know what happened with squidoo and see that it isnt much of a stretch for that to happen here also.
    
    We also have seen some major blockbuster level theft occur and cant help but wonder what counteractions Hubs is considering to stop such mass scale theft. A correlation between either theft/duplication or loss of quality site wide is being assumed as the cause, esp since the timing is just right.
    
    TheKeywordAcademy targets here, Quantity challenges thrust on the noobs, it does make sense
    
    But, I do want to add that Google is and has been implementing major changes since august!!! Everything Ive read so far has stated its not to teh actual algo but rather to the indexing processes and the scope of indexing.
    
    Perhaps explaining slow indexing of new hubs? rather than teh assumed google slap? some side effects are supposed to happen as the changes are made - a lot of webmaster forums, completely unrelated to hubs has threads much like this one, with people wondering why their sites have disappeared/lost traffic unexpectedly
    
    i have yet to see any official statement that its already begun (the index change) but its a very likely factor!!
    
    Google Caffeine

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16. 68

    Paradise7posted 14 years ago

    I agree with most of what you said, ryan.  But I'm on my second thirty hubs in thirty days challenge.  The main reason is to find the impetus to keep writing.  That's harder than it sounds, even though I have the time, the fact is--writing and researching a decent hub is work.  And we all know we'd rather play than work!
    
    In doing this I have written some hubs I'm very proud of, and some hubs I'm not so proud of.  The question re: quality control shouldn't really get mixed up in the question about pushing the 30 in 30 volume encouragement.  I find a lot of hubs in the challenger's link that are really good, well-written hubs, and the writers are new to me.  I think it's mostly the beter writers who go for the challenge.
    
    The people out there who are putting out garbage full of misspellings and poor punctuation; with pictures of naked Indian women (which we're all SO TIRED OF!) aren't the ones doing the hub challenges, usually.
    
    Though I have to admit I've found a few that are less than quality and feel like shaking the person, saying, "Wake up!  Learn to read English, first!  Learn the basics of spelling and punctuation, first!  Before you start publishing ANYTHING!"
    
    But that's only a very few, and they're easily overlooked, and who died and left me in charge, anyway?
    
    

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       tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Those are ok (better than ok!) as long as they're not full of 50 year old overweight women under the label "hot!"

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17. 67

    lrohnerposted 14 years ago

    I think Sunforged's ideas are great, functional and easy to implement.
    
    I totally agree with Paul that HP should defer to people who are SEO experts, as I'm sure they did when they started up HP. I mean, if I want to learn to cut hair, I'm going to go ask Helen Cater or my hairdresser -- not the people who manufacture the darn hair scissors!
    
    I love HP, but really do wish they would implement stricter quality control standards (and I don't mean in the forums). If HP was as quick to take down a substandard hub as they were to snip a link out of a forum post, close out-of-control forum threads or send someone to the naughty step, HP would be a much better place.

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       broussardleslieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Why is it that HP is so aggressive in policing the forums? Why not let the forums run their course (since they don't make anyone money anyway) and police the hubs?

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          They were not agressive at all. It used to be more of a self-moderated place. But people started to whine... And HP listened...

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             tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Deleted
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                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                That sounds like a personal attack. Please refrain from personal attacks in the forums. Thank you.

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                   tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Against whom?

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                      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I think it was pretty clear.

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                         tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Please explain.

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                            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            No. You work it out. Too hard?

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                               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Much too hard, please help me out.

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                                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  No. Try harder.

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                                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     I guess I'll just have to disregard your remarks then. What a shame.

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                   Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   LOL, how bout playing a condescending vagina again? I miss these days....

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                      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Ah, the good old days.

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                         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Yeah, yet we can't enter the same waters again...

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             lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Then why don't they listen to us whine about substandard hubs?
             
             Although it may sound like it, I'm really not trying to bash HP. I just do agree with a lot of others that tons of substandard hubs are going to hurt the quality hubs in the long run.

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             broussardleslieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             So why are they willing to listen regarding forums, but not quality of hubs?
             
             I don't understand why you are so defensive and offensive, Misha. It seems to me that the majority of people on this thread are interested in making HP the BEST place for writers. Regardless of how we get there, we are all just brainstorming to try to figure it out for the best interest of ALL parties.
             
             Ryan, please forgive me if I am recaping your thread incorrectly; this is how I see it.

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                Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Because obviously they thought that one thing did need improvement, and the other did not.
                
                I don't really see myself defensive and offensive here. I am trying to explain.
                
                And brainstorming is a great thing, until its members start demanding that their own idea is THE TRUTH and has to be implemented at any cost.

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                   tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Yet another good point by you sir!

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                   broussardleslieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Are you drunk?!
                   I never once said that my opinion was truth. My opinion is merely that - neither fact or fiction, just an opinion. And my opinion was that I agreed with Dennis Barker who said that maybe the 30 day challenge could become a 60-day challenge that included 30 days of editing.

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                      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      And this is called a personal attack, for your information
                      
                      Please see my response above. I hope it explains my point.

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                         broussardleslieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Asking if you are intoxicated is a personal attack?

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with Ryan that having a high proportion of drossy or mediocre hubs can only damage HP in the long term.  However, I also think that it's totally impractical for HP staff to police *everything*.  I wonder if there's an alternative to what you propose; maybe what HP staff could do is police what goes on the HP front page and in the "Best" sections of each category?
       
       I have to admit that one of the things that appealed to me about HP was the complete *lack* of moderation/policing when it comes to joining and publishing hubs - you just get on with it, and learn as you go.  It suits me much better than the "nanny" approach.

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    Newyork204posted 14 years ago

    Yes I do think Hub Pages is growing too fast.  When this happens the quality goes way down and though Google loves Hub Pages right now, this could change.  Lets keep the quality high people.  Please make sure all your links fit and that the we do not start to get too spammy. There is a way for us all to make money and at the same time produce high quality and informative information.

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19. 59

    Helen Caterposted 14 years ago

    Anyone in need of a cuppa and a digestive?

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       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       What is cuppa?

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20. 64

    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Umm, ok, ciao then.
    
    And you are always welcome back when you manage to get over your ego.

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    lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

    This has been a really interesting and educational thread. I am supposed to be organizing the last room of the house that we moved around the other day and instead I find I keep bouncing in here to see what it up.
    
    I have learned a lot just reading the varying ideas and such and even though I am participating in the 30/30 I am kind of rethinking the approach to them and all.
    
    There are a lot of good suggestions here for all of us to consider.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Frogs are yummy... ♥

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23. 82

    Whitney05posted 14 years ago

    Wow this thread has gotten a little out of hand. If you ask me... :-/
    
    Hubpages never said quantity is better than quality. They defending the accusation with the attacks on the first 30 in 30 challenge. They want you to do your best and strive for more quality hubs.
    
    I do admit that the challenge does give the wrong impression to new people, but I think that others are taking it out of proportion.
    
    We all admit there are things that could be improved, but HubPages knows what they're doing, and they're doing all that they can. The team isn't some group of internet newbies.

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24. 69

    Jeffrey Nealposted 14 years ago

    After reading over this thread and others recently posted there are a couple of points not yet made and some conclusions or my opinions, anyway.
    
    I think there is no one who outright disagrees that quality content is a good thing overall, in the eyes of Google and the unique visitors that arrive at hubs each and every day.  HubPages has provided a venue, the pen and paper for anyone to produce quality content, and that has been done and continues to occur.
    
    The internet is full of low quality content.  My opinion: anyone here who is actually making decent money from adsense outside of HubPages has put up multiple low-quality niche sites.  They pay for the ability to do this via registering the domains and paying for the hosting, so they own it for all intents.  If you want to jump into a niche and see that the domain you want to register is taken who do you cry to?  What if the site is not as good as you would have made it or worse, there is no site, only a parked domain?  You get over it and try something else.  You don't own keywords or well keyworded domains, and so what if someone else got there first.  That's life!
    
    Likewise does HubPages own this site.  They can choose to accept whatever they wish and implement and/or enforce any policies they wish.  While there have been some decent ideas in this thread on ways to raise the bar, there has also been a lot of whining and moaning and an attitude that HubPages just isn't listening...why oh why?
    
    Everyone should keep in mind that we pay no membership fee.  HubPages is generous enough to share the revenue, and of course they know this is the way to attract good writers.  It also attracts some interested in making money, but not so much about quality.  HubPages will enforce their guidelines the best way they need to in order to retain their authority with Google.  If you feel that they are moving too slowly or not doing what you wish, it is a very easy thing to go and start your own site.  What most of us here are doing, though, is riding on HubPages authority and getting ourselves ranked faster.  If your traffic is down, maybe it is up to you to look for ways to improve it.
    
    I have only been here a short while, but I am with Misha in his assertion that HubPages is not run by people who just started out yesterday.  I am confident that they will do what is necessary to keep their business successful while, at the same time, allowing everyone to have the free pen and paper as long as the rules are abided.  The rest of us can continue to do as asked and flag anything that violates the rules.  No one is doing anything positive for HubPages by getting huffy because things aren't going their way.  A more positive approach would be to contact those authors with some constructive criticism or go put together a PDF with all your thoughts on how best to make it at HubPages and approach the staff about linking to it or hosting it or whatever.  Otherwise go write some more good hubs.

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       Whitney05posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       And quit complaining about piddly things. If you have a concern, voice it, but don't go from one issue to another and claim the website earning you money is not doing it's job and isn't good enough. Because in a way, that's exactly what is going on here. At least that's what I'm hearing.
       
       The team still knows more than you do about what they're doing. Let them handle it. It's their job.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Um, excuse me, just a teeny little point here. I appreciate that it is a 40/60 split. I appreciate that Paul built this fabulous site. I appreciate all that Paul and the rest of the team do. But if no one wrote hubs here at HP, there would be NO revenue for anyone. Without writers writing hubs, there is no HP -- at least as it stands today. So please don't tell me to be "grateful" that we can make money here. We make money thanks to Paul. Paul makes money off of us. In my book, that makes us equals.
       
       I, for one, am doing well here and love the community and everything else. I am concerned for HP's future, as Ryan is, if cr*p hubs keep getting published.
       
       I agree with every anti-photo post here. If you want to post fat auntie desi photo hubs, go to Flickr. That's what it's for. HP is for writing. I also agree that HP cannot police all of these hubs. But we can. However, our hands are tied due to the broad TOS and the fact that you need several people flagging the same hub before they look at it. And with the number of hubs and the number of hubbers willing and able to take the time to police things, that's very unlikely.

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          Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Agree totally with this post and your other two posts.  We are (actually those that make money) what makes HP money...period
          
          I did post my first article to InfoBarrel today.  75% of the adsence earning goes to the writer.  They didn't edit anything in my article, it was reviewed prior to hitting the web and I was emailed promptly when it was published.

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             lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             If you recommend it, Jane, I'm willing to give it a go. I'll still keep on with HP and my blogs and website, but look forward to trying it out.

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                Jane@CMposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I'll put the link on my profile.

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       2. 69

          Jeffrey Nealposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So you somehow you think you are equal?  What an arrogant thing to say, and you obviously missed my point.
          
          Somehow, I think HubPages will do just fine with or without you.  There were a handful of people posting in this thread, and there are a LOT of really good hubs out there.  The thread is open and available for anyone to weigh in just as I did and just as you've done.
          
          What you failed to understand from my original post is that those of you complaining the loudest are expecting things to be done a certain way.  Do you and Paul have convos about how best to run the site?  Is he calling you guys for advice?  If he's not, then get off your high horse.  When you create and set up a PR 6 site with Alexa ranking in the top 300 sites out there, then maybe you will be "equals".
          
          But if you'd rather complain about something that is free go ahead.  As a manager I learned that no matter how things go in business there is always one employee that's going to find something to complain about.  If my employee gets too big for their britches and tells me that without their sales my business will go to heck, I'd just ditch 'em and find a new employee.  There is always someone willing to do the job.

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             lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Um, teeny point again, it's NOT free. You give up 40% of your revenues to have the privilege of writing here. Think of it. It's as if you owned your own company but paid 40% of the revenues to someone else. Oops, I forgot. You'd have to be smart enough to be making money here to appreciate that concept.
             
             I spent approximately 20 years as a marketing executive for a Fortune 500 company. So I can tell you, "Mr. Manager", you are so missing the point. As a "manager", you're used to taking orders. As an executive, I was paid to think and develop strategy. We're not complaining. We're extending a wish list and a bunch of concerns out to HP. They can respond, or not. We can act on that, or not. Paul is not that stupid. Neither am I or most of the other hubbers here. Paul is in this to make money across tens of thousands of hubbers, I am in this to make money for me. We may or may not have differing viewpoints and each of us will act accordingly.
             
             So, "Mr. Manager", while I have listened to what you have had to say, I have to admit it's been a waste of time.
             
             While I am successful here, I don't put all of my eggs in one basket. And neither should you, "Mr. Manager".
             
             Paul Deeds listens to his writers. As Misha rightly points out, he reacts to what he thinks is important. I may not agree, but I can still voice my opinion. And I will.

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                Jeffrey Nealposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I had already read your profile.  Nice credentials, but they mean nothing to me.  You should be proud of what you've achieved.  Now why would you want to wallow around in the dirt with me?
                
                We are each voicing opinions, and I managed to do it without belittling you and acting as though I know who you are or what you are capable of.  Manager is only one of the hats I've worn, but I don't owe you an explanation for anything. 
                
                I do want to thank you for proving my point about your arrogance.  I would never question the intelligence of someone I just met in a forum, but obviously executives must do things differently.
                
                Nice talking to you!

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                   lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Um, yes they do. But that has no bearing here.
                   
                   I don't wallow. I listen to people. Either they have something to add, or they don't. Unfortunately, you don't -- or at least haven't so far. Seriously, you need to understand that this is NOT free. What you do here is YOUR business, YOUR company, (60/40) and maybe you'll think differently. Everything that happens here is not only a direct reflection on you, but on your online business as well. Truly, I'm ecstatic with HP so far except for one thing -- all of the substandard hubs. And if I don't let the HP team know, then my bad.
                   
                   HP is not my sole source (or my largest) of online income, but I would love for it to become the largest. I'm in here for the long haul, and expect that the HP team will at least listen to what I have to say, whether or not they act on it.

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Sometimes I think that if HP did not share revenue with writers, it would have been way nicer here...
    
    Come on Lisa, I am willing to forfeit those 15-20 bucks a day I make here for not hearing from anyone how HP should change to make them more money...

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You're killing me, Misha. I am giving almost one-half of my revenues to HP -- willingly and gladly. I think they have done and continue to do a tremendous job. This whole company was very well obviously thought out before it was launched. Kudos to Paul. That said, Paul gets 40% of my earnings. I feel as though I have the right to express my opinions. If Paul doesn't agree with me, I'm not going to argue. But I don't feel that I have to keep my preferences private. And I don't think Paul would want it that way.
       
       Why is it that you folks can't differentiate between expressing opinions with pushing demands?

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          sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I personally wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the potential income and the past authority of this site. When I see either of those threatened I can spare ten minutes to converse on those very important issues.
          
          New alternatives to this publishing model spring up everyday, when valid ideas of how the one Im most involved in can stay on top are discussed I listen and contribute as best I can.
          
          i have no demands or expectations but I damn well will make myself heard.
          
          misha, "for not hearing from anyone how HP should change to make them more money" Really! ..its not hard to click on to another thread, publish a hub or cook an egg, certainly no one is coerced to read anthing
          
          One of my primary concerns in online publishing is exactly what you seem to dislike, how can my partners make me more money  ! and we certainly are in a partner relationship, even if individually we are peons.
          
          and to Whitney
          
          
          Wolves rule, not the sheep
          
          as to the collective genius of your HubMasters, I have no reason to disagree, glad to be a part of it, but Seth Grodin is most def an accepted Marketing Genius, ive used his techniques to make  lot of bank offline, Im still not a squidoo publisher, because a better model exists here at Hubpages. That can easily happen again.
          
          dont assume that the collective other occupations of the personas here are less professional,skilled or intelligent - dont measure us by yourself
          
          If more barriers to poor quality and theft are not created this model will fail - once the weaknesses are found the wolves jump in.

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             Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Thank you for showing me to my place
             
             I generally am trying to avoid such threads lately, but this one somehow got me a bit agitated.

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                sunforgedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Misha,Ｉ was showing you my place

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You surely don't push your opinion too hard Lisa, I guess I wrongly singled you out. Yours just happened to be a closest post on the topic, sorry.
          
          And I generally can differentiate between expressing opinions and pushing demands, this is exactly why I was posting this on this thread and not say on Whitney's thread about spelling error.

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       Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You seem to want things both ways, Misha - you complain about moderated forums and censorship on the one hand, on the other you complain that people express opinions that you do not agree with.
       
       Which is it, Misha?
       
       Whitney: I have to agree with Sunforged on this one - any business that does not seek opinions from all levels will ultimately suffer. I have never worked in a successful organization that does not seek constant input from staff, partners, contractors and customers. I am also confident that the HP team are fully aware of this - they would not have become market leaders, otherwise.
       
       Everyone has a different perspective and expertise - are you telling me that advice from some of the top marketers and writers on HP is useless? Furthermore, it is free - no consultancy fees.
       
       I have seen little complaining in this thread - only concern and the bouncing around of ideas. Certainly, some food for thought.
       
       As many people here seem to be fond of saying - 'if you don't like it, don't read it.'

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          rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          well said sufi, also if one doesn't like that HP has 40%, then go elsewhere. they've given us a platform from which to work. a business is constantly changing and evolving, everything takes time along with intelligent input, not demands.

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Sufi, I complain? I guess you mixed me with smbdy else.

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             Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Bitch, bitch, bitch.......

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    AEvansposted 14 years ago

    Personally I believe there growth is right on target!

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27. 81

    Sufidreamerposted 14 years ago

    Yes, you are always grousing, you big Russian Bear
    
    No worries - I guess that I got a little heated, too. I was sticking up for Lisa, but you have explained yourself, so all is well with the world
    
    Not been a bad thread, this one - there have been a few where I would be inclined to agree with you, but this one has been remarkably civilized.

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    ixwaposted 14 years ago

    I love writing on various subjects. I do not get serious traffic and the one person who reads one  or two of my hubs, I answer very courteously. I take time to write a hub, and always go back and revise the old ones. I am not such a well known writer, but I try to put my two cents into every article. I have not earned much or much pennies, but I do not let that deter me. Like I said, I only get one or two comments per hub, and at times none at all. Anyway, I will keep on churning-out hubs at one hub at a time and still work on the old ones. I have only just began to learn how to put pictures into my hubs(a very hard and slow process for me), but, writing and reading to me is fundamental, and hope some readers check out my stuff. I do not know what a quality hub is, but I read and comment on those that pique my interests. I am only worried that I should not write a hub I have no reference on and  writing for the sake of writing. I write to educate and make people aware on issues that my topic deals with. I have not really read all the hubs on HP, but hope to read a significant amount and maybe create a hub on all of that.  Well, back to writing, and hope some of the issues raised herein become solved.

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    zadrobiposted 14 years ago

    Just wanted to thank all the Big Cats posting here on this informative and interesting thread

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