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Will Hubpages ever put a stop to Mark Knowles agressive slanderism of ones character in forum threads?
Again Mark attacked me on a thread that I posted yesterday:
Married Men That Live A Secret Homosexual Life "Good Or Bad"?
This is a copy of a partial of the thread:
Mark Knowles wrote:
In the recent years I have seen more men come out of the closet after being married for more than 5 years. This concerns me becuase I think of the spouse that has dedicated her complete life to him!
I have seen children lives tour up and even worse the children involved become very confused.
I have seen wives insecure of their woman hood and who they are. Blaming themselves.
And I have the man just walk away from a dedicated relationsip as if it hurt no one. I thought when a married couple took their vows they were vows of integrity and commitment. I thought they were also a vow of honesty and faithfullness.
I am curious what is the thoughts and oppions in regards to this subject.
You will feel a lot better after you come and ab be honest about your sexual preferences.
Stop living the lie and be true to yourself dude.
You can do it! God would want you to come pout of the closet
WHY IS IT MARK KNOWLES IS ALOWED TO ATTACK OTHER HUBERS ON A PERSONAL LEVEL INSULTING THEIR CHARTER AND WHO THEY ARE ABOUT YET NOTHING HAPPENS TO HIM?
MARK KNOWLES COMMENTS GETS VERY CLOSE TO SLANDERISM AND AS ALL WRITERS SHOULD KNOW SLANDERISM CAN END WRITERS UP IN COURT!
THE DEFINATION OF SLANDER IS:
LIE,MISREPRESENT,SMEAR,MUDSLING,DEFAME,DENIGRATE,CASTAOERSIONS,MAKE A FALSE TATEMENT,LIBEL,MALIGN, DRAG ONES NAME THROUGH THE MUD,SLUR, TARNISH ONE'S NAME OR CHARACTER
H/P STAFF SAID ON THEIR FORUM THAT THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR MUST STOP? DOES MARK KNOWLES NOT HAVE TO APPY TO THE RULES AND GUIDELINES?
Hubpages responce but such violations:
The rules are very clear:
No personal attacks in the forums. Substantive debate and differences of opinion are okay. Name-calling, insults, threats, and passive-aggressive references to other users with whom you disagree are not.
Generally, HubPages likes to take a hands-off approach to moderation. We prefer not to get involved, wherever possible, and allow users to work out their own differences of opinion. We only step in where clear spam or personal attacks are involved. However, some users have expressed dissatisfaction with our supposed lack of action in certain instances.
In light of this, I hereby clarify our new policy:
Any personal attacks that are reported will result in a 3-day forum ban of the offending user. Repeated offences will result in a permanent forum ban. No exceptions for users "in good standing." No special considerations for context or provocation. (Paul's own father is currently serving a 3-day ban.)
When will hubpages staff put a stop to Mark Knowles peronal attacks on others?
Just report the comment and HP will take care of it. There's no need to make a thread about it.
By the way, I checked out the thread, which I'm sure is what the intent of this thread was.... I don't think as many people have complained about him as you think. If you don't want to converse with him, ignore his comments. You're egging it on otherwise. I don't mind him by any means, but if you have a problem, take it up with HP and ignore him when he posts to you.
Plus, I don't think what he said was that bad. It was more sarcastic than geared at attacking you.
I'm sorry, but I didn't see where he attacked you personally. It's just a message board. I wouldn't take it too seriously.
Perhaps you should come down from YOUR Cross and view Yourself from where everyone else stands!
You are Bleating.... Always Bleating!
About the very thing that you do yourself!
Turn the other check
Well, I have seen mark in action plenty of times. if there is a subbject that he does not agree with, he aims to end all productive converstation with name calling and ignorant responses with no depth.
the act does discourage more hubbers from engaging in any conversation.
that being said, he and I do not agree on anything and I hate to see him trolling through my hubs as well.
Hey sooner, it's been a while!
Sorry to hear about this, holdfast!
Hey spiderpam, good to see you.
I got hard after my greenhouse, it is finished now!!!
Yes, its an attack and slander, I wonder who could be held libel in a situation like this?
Slander is the oral communication of false statements that are harmful to a person's reputation. If the statements are proven to be true, it is a complete defense to a charge of slander. Oral opinions that don't contain statements of fact don't constitute slander. Slander is an act of communication that causes someone to be shamed, ridiculed, held in contempt, lowered in the estimation of the community, or to lose employment status or earnings or otherwise suffer a damaged reputation. Slander is a subcategory of defamation.
The basic elements of a claim of slander include;
1. a defamatory statement;
2. published to third parties; and
3. which the speaker or publisher knew or should have known was false.
I'd say the remarks don't pass at least one of the requirements. I think he could argue he was trying to provide friendly advice without indicating whether or not he knew the implications to be true or false. In any case, it's best to just ignore such things, at least that's how I would handle it.
In which Mark Knowles did when he used his laugauage directly towards me! You and Your is perosnal and direct!
The false statements would be saying that I need to come out of the closet if you read any of my hubs you will see that clearly I have said that I am not a homosexual!
So their is the proven act of slander!
This isn't about Mark!
This is about Nit-Picking!
It's Not that Hard to Pick the Nit!
so its because he used "YOU" and "YOUR"? Therefore he implied what? That the article was not a hypothetical, but rather personal? Just trying to understand, what exactly is the issue.
I deleted it because I realized it was pointless to even talk about, but written communication is always libel and slander is always for spoken defamation.
You're right- libel is written. But, I still don't see the comment as deserving this outburst.
I don't understand why you want to post a thread about something that is personal to you only. If you have a problem with something a poster comments, then you should deal with it yourself. this is your opinion only, btw. an attack is much different than slander.
O.K. everyone both Mark and MDawson are good people we have to respect both of them, Mark should not be banned and MDawson I am certain he is going to pull this thread sometimes all of us act out and defend ourselves we are all human and we are not without fault. Both of them are strong- willed and are highly respected. I admire both of their abilities and their talents so again I am certain this thread is going to go, just my opinion.
It was a backhanded joke - noone will have taken it seriously. Surely it doesn't warrant any action by the site.
Really? If the shoe was of the other foot and Dawson stood firmly opposed against homosexuality and used the bible. Dawson would have been banned for hate speech.
It's like this.
You spend some time to write a hub that you are passionate about or have interest in. It takes time to do this. Especially an old guy like me.
Then you have a person like mark troll through your hub because he gets a laugh out of childish remarks. Now, nobody wants to engage in conversation because they see the troll and where the hub is going.
Its very irritating.
Who likes mark and who doesn't is not the issue. I like humor and I like "heated" conversation, but I don't think these types of comments are acceptable either. They are not allowed per the rules and I think it takes a smarter person to push the limmit without getting banned for a time.
Personally I think it's a personal matter between the two members, opening this thread actually highlighted the attention to yourself and in a way you have sought out this attention. If Mark Knowles had said something that made me look bad I sure as heck wouldn't start a thread to show everyone it.
Naming members in a thread should carry a long ban, it just creates a load of bad feeling !
Good Point. Besides writing a thread about someone and doing so in a negative manner...is...well an attack?
To call out someone on something that insults His/Her character should never be tolerated and he does it over and over again!
It was not my intention to hurl insults and I will gladly if told take a 3 day band from the forums becuase that is the type of writter and person I am.
However Mark countiosly attack hubers in a very personal way! Some of us wright on hubpages for a living not for fun.
Regardless of how you dissect his comment in my thread it is obvious of his indicatiations in his wording!
This current thread was not a ploy to get more traffic on my site believe you me I am personaly content with the traffic I have!
I am just sick and tired of his constant attacks on other hubers it flat sickens me professionally and personally!
I have recieved personal emails of other hubers that has lefy H/P becuase of Mark,s personal attacks on them!
WHEN DOES ALL THIS STOP?
Take it up with the officials. I doubt of all people, you were the one emailed because people left because of Mark. That's there thing, and if you can't take it, then ignore it. It's pretty simple.
It will stop when people stop calling attention to stupid things.
For reasons like cry babies, there shouldn't be a forum that isn't HubPages related. Don't participate if you don't want to. There are so many personalities here, that someone is going to get misunderstood if not flat out attacked. It happens. Don't make it worse with threads like this.
Why do you open such pathetic threads and then bleat because others disagree with you?
In all the time I have been in HP; You have been interested in finding out as much as you can about Homosexuality!
What is your attraction to gays?
Are you curb-cruzing HP?
I doubt many here actually care to see your obsessive threads on the subject.
He is a minister and is trying to seek understanding since he deals with people everyday and there are so many who are judgemental of them, he is not judging but seeking knowledge and understanding because many Christians believe that it is a sin. I for one have many friends who are gay and lesbian and we are a heterosexual couple but as we all know there are many many Christians who point fingers and judge when they should be looking in there own backyards first. He is merely seeking understanding based on comments and experiences that his own people question, the best way to get answers is to go to the people and then determine what direction God is asking him to go. There is nothing negative intended just simple understanding. I do have to say in his defense that he is the first Man of God who is passionate about others thoughts, feelings, emotions and he believes that everyone is entitled to life and respect. This is not meant to offend you as I admire you to but all of us should just sit back and then answer the questions. We should help him answer the questions that so many long to understand I believe then we will gain more knowledge. ((Big Hugs)) my friend.
Precisely if he is a minister, there is even less reason to get angry.
We know that Mark Knowles is an atheist. So why bother being ticked by him?
Jesus didn't bother with those who gave Him names.
Likewise, relax... don't they have a quote, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."
No it was a forum I had to close "Please provide proof atheism is true and correct" It got pretty nasty, but no one could provide proof.
I appreciate what you are saying Mdawson I really do but your concerns should have been mailed to Hubpages. This type of naming thread just brings out all the usual suspects to indulge in a slanging match who have no interest in either you or Mark Knowles and it will run and run.
Has Mark ever suggested that you use a Dictionary to help you learn the correct spelling of the words you try to use?
If Not, I'd like to suggest that a dictionary will help you understand words and their meanings!
It would also be a valuable tool for you: To help you understand what others are saying to you!
Once you've got a dictionary; you'll only need ears!
We wonder why HP has to moderate the forums, it's because grown adults can't moderate themselves. I am sure your feelings were hurt but seriously, this is how you resolve it, by hosting a pity party and engaging in the same personal attacks on him, that you are accusing him of doing. Move on and walk away, stop feeding the beast and it will not grow.
I WANT TO THANK YOU SCOTT.LIFE FOR THESE WELL WRITTEN WORDS I CAN ONLY APPRECIATE ONE THAT SAYS WHAT YOU HAVE SAID! I CAN TAKE CORRECTIVE CRITICISM I JUST CANNOT AND WILL NOT TAKE A PERSONAL ATTACT!
FURTHERMORE IN THIS THREAD I HAVE NOTICED THE QUESTION BEING BROUGHT UP "WHY DO I POST THREADS ON HOMOSEXUALITY" I POST SUCH THREADS BECUSE IN MY MINISTRY I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH INDIVIDUALS THAT LIVE IN AN ADVERSE LIFESTYLE! I FURTHER HAVE MY PERONAL OPIONS AND BELIEFS OF SUCH LIFESTYLES!
AS FAR AS ME BEING A PREDATOR THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE NEVER HAVE POSTED ANY THREADS OR HUBS TO EVEN LEAVE SUCH AN INDICATION IN ANY ONES MIND! AS A MATTER OF FACT IF YOU READ MY HUBS YOU WILL SEE THAT I SPEAK BOLDLY AGAINST THE VIOLATIONS AND EXPLOYTATION OF CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED!
I HAVE ALWAYS RESPECTED OTHERS ON H/P HOWEVER I EXPECT THE SAME RESECT
With all due respect, and I am sincere,
respect is earned.
It would seem that many have also felt disrespected by you, hence the kinds of replies you have received.
To undo this, you have the ability and power. I think you'll find you have plenty of friends here, when and if that happens.
Again, I say, be well.
Look, I attended Bible School before and am now a minister to my members.
So quit trying to justify that because you are a minister, you can be angry and justified in whatsoever you are doing.
Just do what you need to do in helping others and stop the verbal war. It really is pointless, and the worst is, it makes you look bad.
If you don't know, Mark Knowles won; he got you angry enough for you to look bad in front of so many people. Now he has something more to say about Christians.
So just relax alright. Chill.
Mdawson, I have a lot of respect for you from what I have seen so far, but I believe Scott is right on this one. And I won't trivilize the remarks against you in saying that you "got your feelings hurt." You may have good reason to protest and ask HP to do something about it. HP has rules about personal attacks and if they are going to have them, they should enforce them.
Having said that, a slanderous comment, even if true, would be very difficult charge to make stick. We put our ideas out there in HP and they are likely to get attacked. Some lack the self-control and can't help from verbally deficating all over the forums. I don't agree with Scott that the best response is to necessarily "walk away" in this case. Sometimes you need to go head-to-head for what you believe. And, if MK is put on notice (again!), it might make things better for other hubbers later and do more to promote forums where ideas can be addressed and advanced. It will, at least, remove some of the stench.
But you don't want a reputation of crying "foul" when you get verbally smacked. This is said by a fan.
With all due respect, and I do mean this in a kind way, I get why you were hurt and insulted. But Mark's comments are more about Mark than you, just as your comments are more about you than Mark. If you're secure with who you are, then it doesn't matter what Mark or any of the rest of us think, because you're good to go.
Justice is not a remedy for everything. Sometimes you have to be the bigger person and let it slide, pass, or whatever. If justice were the remedy for everything, there would only be perpetual punishment. That doesn't make life worth living.
"An eye for an eye only makes the world blind."
When you begin such a controversial topic on a very personal subject, you should expect heated debate that gets personal. And then to claim foul is something I don't understand. I think you should examine your own motives.
I have to admit, this has to be the most childish, self-indulgent, ridiculous thread that I've seen since I've been a member of HP. I feel like I'm back on the elementary school playground listening to the spoiled kid screaming, "HE PICKED ON ME!!!! WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!"
I happen to like Mark and enjoy the humor in most of his comments. The religious fanatics have put a bullseye on Mark's back because he (gasp!) diaagrees with them, and probably won't back down until they've driven him out of here (which I can't see happening any time in the near future). MDawson, perhaps you just should've shot back at Mark "It takes one to know one." Then we all could have laughed, disregarded the whole thing and moved on.
Whitney has posted quite a bit on this thread, and I agree with her. She and I have had very heated disagreements on a certain topic. You don't see either one of us running around, reporting each other and starting up threads about each other. We just leave each other alone. I don't agree with her, but I respect her opinion because it's just that -- her opinion. And she's entitled to it. I just don't happen to agree with it.
So grow up everyone! Can't we all just get along?
BTW, did any of you ever hear the saying, "Those that protest the loudest usually have something to hide?"
I didn't think this would go on this long.
I think the problem was addressed.
Lol... did I sound very serious?
Maybe I should make a hub on it. LOL~!
I ALSO THINK THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN ADRESSED AND I HAVE EMAILED H/P STAFF TO REMOVE BOTH THREADS AND HOPE TO SEE THEM REMOVED SOON!
MARK KNOWLES IF I HAVE TAKEN YOUR COMMENT OUT OF CONTEXT I APOLGIZE! I DO NOT SEE THAT I HAVE HOWEVER I WILL REVIEW IT MORE AND SEE IF I REACTED TO FAST!
I have very little appreciation for forums in-general, especially un-moderated ones and so I post very limited, that's why I have 264 Hubs and only about 85 forum posts here.
What has been brought attention-to by this thread is the very reason why I don’t frequent them. Not because the attacks make someone cry but because they disrupt intelligent discussions and debates in fact that's the design intended. It's not the same thing whatsoever to express heated, passionate disagreement but attack-posts go way beyond that.
I could actually paste some examples that have occurred especially on the "Religion & Belief" forums but I'm going to resist doing that. (Don't press-me too hard to prove that or I might just post an example!) Better yet, I'll copy/paste and send them to HP administration and ask them what they think about them and then post their reply. I can guarantee you they know which posts go out of bounds and they are aware of what certain individuals are up too.
While I've mentioned that, what would be your opinion of an attack-poster who gets multiple memberships on HubPages and resorts to attack-posts, posing as many different individuals? Why would you ask that JimLow? - You might inquire. Why do you think I'm asking it?
My disagreement with someone who has obtained many memberships under lots of different names, is that they see it as an advantage in making it appear there are more people resorting to the "out of bounds" posts than there really are. They also have followers-cronies that begin to emulate them. Their followers feel emboldened to stretch the boundaries because their hero is doing-so.
In my opinion when Hubpages is able to prove this occurrence with a member, they should not be slapped on the wrist with a 3-day ban but should be put out the back door permanently. If they reappear afterward under yet more member-names, they should be pursued legally.
Can some of this be proven already? You better believe it can. This, despite someone having posted from several computer-IPs. Yeah, it’s happening and I'm not the only one who knows about it.
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