Ad-Sense and you

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   Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years ago

   I am thinking of starting a class action suit against Google Ad-Sense if my appeal is not settled in my favor. I currently am listed as TOS. A lady has a crush, and wanted to help her handicapped friend.
   
   Google also keeps money that had previously been earned and never notifies you of what they did. People must have had other problems.
   
   Please tell me of your problem, and if you wish to be part of a suit. I'm not positive this is going to happen but...........

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      JYOTI KOTHARIposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I never had a problem with Google. I think they are fair enough.
      
      Thanks,
      Jyoti Kothari

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2. 60

   Cyber Lawyerposted 14 years ago

   Many people have voiced similar complaints. I'm not so sure whether this kind of problem is even suited for a class action law suit, because each person has a different story to tell. How is a judge to determine who is at fault in each case, Google or the barred user? In your typical class action, the product has been defective or the services sub-standard, and customers are hardly to blame. Adsense is much more complicated.
   
   An idea would be to use your experiences to shed more light on the Adsense appeals process. If you are treated unjustly, you could write about it, get others with similar experiences to contact you, and try to bring about change this way instead.

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3. 65

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Harvey, do you realize that you with the help of you friend attempted to steal money from advertisers and were caught at the spot?
   
   Bonnie and Clyde my ass

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      darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That is unfair.
      
      Harvey didn't attempt to steal anything.
      
      Unfortunately his reputation as an Adsense Publisher is a risk for advertisers, but to accuse him of attempting theft is a gross exaggeration.

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Umm, ok, I think I went overboard with Bonnie and Clyde, this was not a robbery and murder.
         
         Harvey, I apologize for Bonnie & Clyde. Also, I apologize for saying that this was you who did the stealing.
         
         Unfortunately, that does not change the fact that your friend attempted to steal from other people to give money to you.
         
         Is that better, Glen?

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         1. 55

            Thomas Andrewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I can understand that we can get a view point at times that might be clouded somewhat. Ad-Sence like any other undertaking by a business must have a mess on there hands with it comes to people who attempt to take advantage of the way the program works. That said, we can expect that they use software to check for patterns of fraud and as good as software is, it is not perfect.
               That in itselfs does not mean Googles perfect, we all error. But do you just want revenge maybe for what you feel you have been wronged by. Is the dollar amount worth the effort. Is the harm so great it would justify a class action suit. More over does if even come to the stature of a class action suit. Actually no. Class actions suits must be narrow or it will never meet the test of the court.
               I do not know Harvey I am new to all this, I am sure Google and Harvey should talk. Maybe they could find some commom ground over a cup of coffee. I am sure Google does not want to lose Harvey and I am sure Harvey does wants to be read. Sometimes we have to be able to say well i guess i lost this one and move on. Life is not always fair. We should not expect it to me, but we have to also have a clear understanding. Setbacks come, people get hurt, people get accused of all manner of things. In the end what maters is did you learn anything and did you grow in wisdom and truth.
               As far as Google goes I am positive they would admit they error all the time. We all do. Even when trying to do the right thing. Sometimes the right thing for one may appear to be the wrong thing for another. It really is about prospective. Google has a responsibility not only to Google but also to advertizers. After all they sell advertizers space on pages you
            rent at Googles expence. When you park content on these pages. You are actully squating on anothers persons real estate. The owner is actually even paying you to squat, all they ask is that you try to abide by the rules. In laymens terms it is a win win for both you and google. But the world is still not perfect.
               So as my Step-Father once said. Fair in life is like a plumber thinking he is not going to get dirty. What is fair.
            Some people get few breaks in life that isn't fair. Some are born blind, that isn't fair. Some never grow up and become mature, that isn't fairs to the rest of us. Life is not always fair. That does not mean it is not interesting, it just is not always fair.
               Would you say this post was fair, well not really afterall it was one sided.

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            darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Much better
            
            Everything else you say is right. Harvey will be banging his head up against the wall if he continues to try and seek justice. The situation has left him out in the cold. And Google ain't never letting him back in.

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4. 76

   sunforgedposted 14 years ago

   As an Adwords and Adsense partner, I should point out that although it is unfortunate that you lost your account due to the actions of another BUT I would offer you no clemency or second chances.
   
   Each one of those fraudulent clicks by your "agent" was not a theft from Google. It was theft from people like me who pay to have their ads run.

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5. 63

   Has_aWayWithWordsposted 14 years ago

   Google has far more resources than the people earning a few hundred a month from adsense. Your choice but I really doubt that this is a fight you will win.

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6. 79

   thisisoliposted 14 years ago

   Ok Harvey, to put this in perspective.  You worked as CEO of a scrap metal business right?
   
   So say one day business gets slow, so you decided to offer a referral option to bring in some more business.
   
   You tell a marketer, if he brings in business you will give him a set amount of money every single time a potential customer comes to you, they don't even need to buy anything.
   
   Then this marketers friend visits every single one of your scrap metal depots.  and claims the referral for your friend every single time.
   
   Because of this you have to pay your marketer a huge amount, even though you received no business from it.
   
   Now imagine that you had a million marketters, and 10% of these marketters were not accidentally trying to defraud you, but INTENTIONALLY trying to defraud you, meaning you had to seperate the mistakes from the real fraudsters (Difficult when the fraudsters can easily look like people making mistakes.
   
   So how do you deal with this?
   
   You have got caught up in the net because your friend tried to defraud google, and at 20 minutes of clicking thats a fair whack of cash. It's not particularly your fault, but fraud was involved, should Google take your friend to court and then pay you the money?
   
   Or should Google just pay all the fraudster, costing companies billions each year.

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      Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Harvey, I hope you read this and consider it.  You are innocent, but unfortunately you've got caught in rules that are essential to protect other advertisers. That's life.

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7. 65

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   LOL Thomas, you cannot talk to Google. And Harvey can't. Google does not talk. Period. You can talk as much as you like, Google does not answer. I think this is exactly what drives Harvey nuts about this situation, but there is not much he can do.

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8. 60

   Cyber Lawyerposted 14 years ago

   You may want to take a look at this often-quoted article from the Huffington Post: "Why I Sued Google (and Won)."
   
   The author and plaintiff, Aaron Greenspan, was an established businessman who used both Adwords and Adsense. Google owed his company $721, when the account was suddenly terminated without any stated reason. He tirelessly pursued his claim, meeting only evasiveness and a lack of transparency, before he decided to sue.
   
   This article is probably being quoted so often because it is the exception, not the rule. Put differently, unless you are approximately in the same league as Greenspan, it's an awful long shot. 
   
   
   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-gre … 72403.html

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      girly_girl09posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Small claims court really made a difference, too. Google did not have the right for an attorney to represent them and they sent a less-experienced paralegal.
      
      Also, this decision was appealed by Google. They were victorious. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-gre … 13176.html

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      Has_aWayWithWordsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You might also want to look at the update to that post that says why he lost on appeals.

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      thisisoliposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Cyber Lawyer, if you read about that case, google appealed and he lost the money, and had to pay court fees.  The guy in that story broke Googles terms fo service, and he was caught out for it.

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9. 60

   Cyber Lawyerposted 14 years ago

   May I further suggest that you check out the Adsense forum. The people over there are discussing these issues, and you may find them sympathetic to your cause.
   
   Those folks were discussing Adsense class action lawsuits back in 2004.
   
   
   http://forums.digitalpoint.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27
   
   http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=3960

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10. 67

    Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

    I understand that Adsense is the one who conducts the program and has final say, still there has to be some kind of second chance.  In the case of Harvey, it was his friend who broke the rules and Harvey didn't know anything about it.  I have a crazy friend who would do something like that, needless to say, I don't say much about what I do on the internet.

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       girly_girl09posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       This is why virtually none of my family or friends know about my HubPages account. They know I make money by writing online, but I never tell them where.

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          Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Same here. It's really like having another life.  In the case of a crazy friend, she would probably click on the ads thinking she's trying to help me.

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    2. 60

       Cyber Lawyerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "My friend did this without my knowledge" is the excuse most frequently heard. Google often has no chance to prove whether the friend acted as an agent or not, they just assume it. If someone notices extraordinary click activity in their Adsense account, better contact Google to be on the safe side. Adding Goggle analytics to the Adsense account will also help pinpont the location of this kind of activity.

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11. 70

    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    I tell people I write on HubPages. I just don't tell them how I make my earnings.

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12. 0

    Tammy Lochmannposted 14 years ago

    Unfortunately for invalid click activity there is usually no chance that account will be reinstated.  You can file an appeal that is the only chance and a slim one at that that your plea will be listened to.  I am going to sound like a cliche but I wouldn't ever put all my eggs in the Google basket.

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