Check This Out for Repeat Ads!

1. 73

   Sue Adamsposted 2 years ago

   I can count no less than 21 repeats of this same advert breaking up the text in this article.
   
   
   
   Really?
   Can any of you SEO experts please explain to me what the advantages are of repeating the same advert over and over again, breaking up every paragraph of text?

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   1. STAFF

      Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Each ad is auctioned individually, which means the same ad can show more than once. This targeted marketing can happen when the viewer is considered valuable to the advertiser or when the advertiser is buying multiple ad spots for greater reach. Duplicate ads appearing in the same article have no impact on SEO.

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2. 86

   Jodahposted 2 years ago

   This is totally unacceptable, and there can be no valid reason. How can it not turn readers away after one or two repeats? I have counted 14 repeats on one of mine, but 21?

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      Patty Inglish, MSposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      +1

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   2. STAFF

      Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      We have a perfectly good reason for doing it the way we do it. Personally, I have never left a page I was interested in because the same ad appeared more than once. I don't even pay attention to ads when I am visiting a page.

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      1. 75

         chef-de-jourposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         But there is a tolerance threshold when it comes to repeatedly breaking up text in an article, especially a longer article. The text has to be top priority, a central band of text, uninterrupted information the reader can comfortably stay with.
         
         I ask myself why HP can't see the logic in this - centralised text, unbroken, with ads either side, works for the better. I've read many articles with this format and they're successful simply because the information is given priority.
         
         I ask this because over the last few years traffic has trended down - and I think we all know why - so to boost traffic again HP should attempt a new approach with regards its ad regime?
         
         If placing the ads down the sides of the text is technically impossible then no sweat. Please inform us of the impossibility!
         
         For me, the text is always king and should be uninterrupted for a smoother read, for to optimize the reader experience.....
         
         I

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         1. 65

            eugbugposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            When asked in a post a few weeks ago, Hubpages said that fixing that was "complicated". I never got an answer about how ads "know" where to be placed. Presumably they just look for the end of paragraph character/characters which I would think are ASCII carriage returns or line feeds (Maybe it's different in HTML). My suggestion was to change the delimiter that the ad placement code looks for (if that's technically possible on their end), then we could decide where ads are to be placed by inserting a delimiter, using the HTML editor that we can use when editing text modules.
            We can turn off ads completely, so why shouldn't we be able to decide where they are placed?

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            1. 75

               chef-de-jourposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               It's good of Matt to respond, don't think I've seen such detail in a reply regarding the ads.
               It's probably true, some readers are able to 'ignore' annoying ads, no matter their placement, but they're few and far between I think. Your average interested reader (and I'm one of them) wants the text there front and centre, no messing, no break up, just information in neat short paragraphs. Ads down the side, right or left, are fine, repeated or not.
               When I visit a restaurant I want my plate of food placed right there in front of me.

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               1. 65

                  eugbugposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                  Unfortunately ads down the side are only suitable for when articles are viewed on desktop. Unfortunately most people view the toilet roll version now on mobile devices.

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                  1. STAFF

                     Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                     Ads are placed and optimized in the best way possible, and we will continue to modify them as we see fit. Our decisions are based on data and experience, not speculation. I suggest to stop worrying about ads and continue to create content. That is the best way to improve your earnings.

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                     1. 65

                        eugbugposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        I thought they were placed automatically?

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                     2. 75

                        chef-de-jourposted 2 years agoin reply to this

                        Appreciate your responses Matt.
                        
                        For sure, I'll continue to create fresh content and have been consistent in my output throughout my time here at HP. I've built up a healthy readership in my 10 years and want to build further.
                        
                        This thread is a healthy attempt to understand the placement of ads and the cause/effect on readership so, as a writer, I can't help but be involved in a discussion that might possibly help increase readership and earnings.
                        
                        It's a natural reaction to want the best for any published article. I see threads like this as free spaces into which good ideas and contributions from writers may be of help to you guys on the technical side of things.

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3. 65

   eugbugposted 2 years ago

   As fas I understand it, the code in ad placeholders acts independently. So each code "module" just requests an ad, but they don't "know" what each other are doing. So the same ad may appear in multiple places. I guess it would be a headache to add code to track the ads that are served up and tell each module that subsequently loads an ad not to duplicate them using some sort of loaded ad list. The modules presumably all work in parallel too and ads load dynamically, so there would have to be lots of to and fro communication. So in Hubpages defence, it's not as though they're deliberately showing the same ad multiple times. That would be my take on it anyway. I could be way off though.

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   1. 73

      Sue Adamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Deliberate or not, the situation is very offensive to readers who must feel that they are regarded as stupid idiots who can't get a message by looking at it just once. The sad truth is that readers don't blame the site, they blame the author, the only person accredited with producing the content.
      
      It also sends a negative message to potential advertisers. The incessant repetition of ads is a sign that there are not enough advertisers willing to use the platform to advertise their products or services‒ therefore this must be an inferior platform for advertisers as well as for readers.
      
      Deliberate or not, it is for us, the (barely paid) content producers, to demand that management recognize the problem and fulfill their duty to add code to not duplicate ads in such a ridiculous insane fashion.
      
      If the ad slots cannot be filled with individually different ads, then maybe there are too many ad slots and fewer slots/ads might serve the site better than the presently intrusive overkill.

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   2. STAFF

      Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The way we are doing it now is the fastest. If we didn't allow duplicate ads then ads would take longer to load. If the advertiser wants to bid on multiple ad spaces, they may do so.

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4. 65

   eugbugposted 2 years ago

   Irrespective of the duplication, what annoys me more is how lots of ads are drastically slowing down the loading of pages. It takes nearly a minute sometimes for ads and article photos to load. I wish they would show photos first before loading ads because those long white spaces where there's no aid to knowing where you are in an article certainly piss me off, and I'm a reasonably patient person.

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   1. STAFF

      Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      The images and ads load for me quickly. Try updating your operating system and check your internet connection.

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      1. 65

         eugbugposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         My connection is reasonably fast (100Mbps). I'm using Widows 10 and ads and photos load fast on my notebook. However on my phone they load extremely slowly. Maybe it's because my phone is 5 years old, but I'm sure there are lots of other people with similar vintage devices. My issue is also with the fact that a reader has to wait ages for ads to load before they can see images in an article. If images loaded first, they could get on with reading the article and ads could load leisurely while they read. Also, as I mentioned in another thread, even if a hairline outline with a short piece of text like "advertisement" and "image" could be displayed in the blank white spaces where ads and images are going to appear, that would allay confusion. Currently if there are say three photos, interleaved with another three ads, that makes a huge, big long white space and it's really confusing.

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5. 69

   PaulGoodman67posted 2 years ago

   "Can any of you SEO experts please explain to me what the advantages are of repeating the same advert over and over again, breaking up every paragraph of text?"
   
   While the question is likely intended sardonically, I'm going to answer it literally...
   
   There are no advantages of any advertising when it comes to SEO, repeated or otherwise, as far as I'm aware. In anything, there can often be a conflict between SEO and ads. It's a play-off with a balance being needed to be found between traffic levels and ad revenue.
   
   Adverts are solely about raising revenue. They serve no positive SEO purpose. Their negative impact needs to be minimized to some extent, but there are no SEO advantages.
   
   Regarding the repeats, I think it's likely that the duplicated ads are an unwanted side effect of the coding. The way that Eugene explains it seems a reasonable explanation to me, but I'm certainly no coding expert.
   
   I think Eugene is right that the load times are potentially a bigger issue. However, by definition, HP have decided that, at least for the time being, the current setup is the one that maximizes revenue. It's actually difficult to argue with that assessment without knowing key statistical data and analysis, in my opinion.
   
   Ads can certainly look ugly to the eye. The site had an aggressive advertising strategy back when I first joined, there were tacky Adsense adverts everywhere, including within the text. After Panda, they cut back on the ads, but over time, it's certainly got more aggressive again.

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6. 73

   Sue Adamsposted 2 years ago

   Yes, Paul and Eugene, I understand that load times are potentially a bigger issue. But there is another aesthetics and lack of clarity issue.
   
   I read a post, Eugene created about five weeks ago.
   
   How Do Ads "Know" Where to Be Placed?s
   
   At the end of that post, you mention this fix to stop ads cutting into text capsules:
   “If I use shift-enter to create a new line, instead of "enter" for a new paragraph, I can force ads out of the position in text where I don't want them.”
   
   I tried that but it only works if the paragraph doesn’t have an H3 or even bolded paragraph sub-heading.
   
   Why are we forced to invent roundabout solutions to a problem created by management? The next picture shows just how ridiculous it looks when a sub-heading is separated from its content by an intrusive, non-related, repetitive ad.
   
   
   
   Grrr! Infuriating!

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   1. 75

      chef-de-jourposted 2 years agoin reply to this

      I guess the psychology behind these kind of ads is to capture the attention of what might be called your average internet user/HP user (I'm sure Arena have done their online research in this regard?),and are a sign of the times we live in. That is, increasingly we're all subject to advertising whether we like it or not, whether we're directly influenced or not.
      As I wrote in a previous post,  these ads are repeated ad nauseam - to reinforce a name or brand, it's that simple. Horrible and tiresome I agree but it's all we've got until low viewing stats force HP/Arena to think again.
      It's frustrating to think that with a few technical tweaks here and there the powers that be could clean up these pages and make unbroken text the priority, with ads down either side, or just one. But this is deja vu territory. Encore, deja vu.

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      1. 73

         Sue Adamsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         Re: "these ads are repeated ad nauseam - to reinforce a name or brand"
         
         According to whom? The 20+ times repeated ad in one of my articles advertises a 21-day yoga challenge for beginners, no brand name there at all.
         
         
         
         Like I said before, the incessant repetition of ads is to me (an average internet user) a sign that there are not enough advertisers willing to use the platform to advertise their products or services ‒ therefore this must be an inferior platform for advertisers. It deters advertisers and really annoys readers.
         
         We've always achieved positive change by questioning management in the past, even until very recently, (when we finally got rid of the top videos). "Sign of the times", "trust management, they must know what they're doing", is not the right mindset for positive change.

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            chef-de-jourposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, despite all the psychological theory behind advertising per se, there is a peculiar annoyance about repeat ads in our own articles, we the veterans of HP, who were around when common sense and commercial awareness prevailed and the placement of ads wasn't even an issue!
            
            By sign of the times I meant the increase of these awful ads on social media generally and the evolution of the same. Arena packs them in no doubt. I hate 'em, these ridiculous ads.
            
            Based on my eleven years experience here so be it, I can't help but trust management - until I don't!
            
            We're in the same boat, wanting a change of direction. My mindset is frequently all over the place but I do know what I want with regards to the placement of ads.

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7. 83

   Solarasposted 2 years ago

   Something else to note is the frequency of the ads.  On their Sports Illustrated site, ads run an average of 22-25 lines of text between ads.  On pethelpful ads appear in between every 7-15 lines of text.
   
   Clearly they have two different strategies for ads and reader experience.  Why would that be?
   
   SI does have a subscription model, so that helps to subsidize the site, also it sells tickets and swimwear.  Having said all that, they know better than to cram bunches of ads on SI.

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8. 95

   AliciaCposted 2 years ago

   I would have agreed with the original post in this thread, but about ten minutes ago I visited the website of a major newspaper in my area. There were thirteen copies of an identical advertisement on the home page, with only one different one. I just visited the site again to make sure that I’d counted the ads properly, and now eleven of the ads have been replaced by a different identical advertisement. Repeating ads may be more common than some of us realize.

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   1. 69

      PaulGoodman67posted 2 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I agree.
      
      People are looking at this with a more critical eye than is perhaps justified.
      
      Over the years, I've noticed that when things aren't going well at HP (and traffic/earnings are currently certainly bad here), the forum mood can become more hostile and there's a human tendency to look for targets to blame.
      
      I think the repeated ads phenomenon, which is fairly common, as you say, most likely comes from a combination of technical issues and a lack of suitable ads for certain keywords.
      
      It's undesirable, but an issue that many sites face.

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      1. 84

         SerenityHaloposted 2 years agoin reply to this

         I find this forum thread altogether interesting. On the one hand, I think the Internet is still in its infancy and there is a lot of experimentation going on to figure out what works. I can't imagine advertising will look the same 10 or 20 years from now. I bet before too much longer AI is seriously going to chase after all of us with ads. We're already seeing the dawn of AI with art and writing, so I assume the next step is an infiltration of AI-generated ads (if that's not already the case).
         
         I'm not suggesting that ads will be better in the future--it could be worse. I just don't think our present incarnation will last forever. I agree with many others that the current format for a bulk of sites is unaesthetic.
         
         I think a lot of people in this thread have valid opinions. I have definitely left websites because of intrusive ads, popups, or requests for cookies. Worse yet? Quizzes with each question on a different page. I'm not even sure how something like that still exists.
         
         I think you bring up a good point that HP users don't have all the information that those working directly for HP do. There are really big gaps in what we as users know statistically.
         
         What we need is really good communication, a conduit so we're not left in the dark. It's really nice that Matt is responding here, but I think users need more communication. Writers don't do well when they're left in a vacuum.
         
         Many of us have lost serious traffic and revenue, and for writers who want to make money, that's a pretty big turnoff. Not being able to find a solution to that means those serious writers will move on to other platforms or projects. I know I've been spending less time on this site writing and publishing content because it seems pointless. I'm making about 1/4 of what I have in previous Decembers. As I've mentioned many times, January scares me.
         
         My take is that HP was hit by the Google algorithm update this fall. I think the site was already struggling, but it definitely got worse. HP said it would take a few months to recover, so I'm reluctantly watching to see what will happen over a few months. I'm trying to approach this with a touch of patience and realism.

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         1. STAFF

            Matt Wellsposted 2 years agoin reply to this

            Google algorithm updates can either have a negative or positive effect. Sometimes we win, and sometimes we lose. When we don't come out on the winning end, we strive to make changes to change that outcome. Those of you who have been around for a while know that there are ups and downs when it comes to traffic and earnings and that we will do everything we can to improve.

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            1. 84

               SerenityHaloposted 2 years agoin reply to this

               I appreciate that HP strives to make changes and plans for improvement. I trust, at the very least, that on the other side there are people who are trying. I am thankful for HP; this has been an excellent place to grow as a writer and build passive income. I've been here for almost 10 years. I wouldn't describe everything as perfect, but it has definitely been a worthwhile experience. (I also don't believe in perfection.)   
               
               The problem is when there is too long of a downtrend. Personally, I've seen progressive decline and plateauing for close to three years. I don't know if that's the case for others. I only have my data. I think my loss has come out of a mixed bag: the pandemic, competition, algorithm changes, economic turbulence, market changes, my own shortcomings, etc.
               
               I don't think HP is alone in feeling the pains of recent times. It feels like HP is going through the pains of recent Google updates, at least on the user side. Other publications are also trying to figure out what to do. In my previous response, I wrote about the Internet generally and then wrote more specifically about HP. 
               
               I think both writers and staff have validity to what they're saying. The more open and honest HP staff can be the better... generally speaking, there is a lot of mistrust with corporations.
               
               I've continued to add more content despite my personal downward trend, almost 300 new hubs. I am left wondering if I'll ever see the heights of previous upward trends. I also wonder if previous years were just a bubble. I'm not planning to cancel my account, but I do adjust how much effort I put into it. If January brings in half of what December 2022 brings in... I'm going to have a hard time justifying putting in a lot of work here. This is, for me, a really bad concerning December.
               
               I know lots of people have been concerned since some fall updates on Google's side. If people are being honest about their decline in traffic, I think HP should up its communication with users... writers tend to be anxious people and don't like being left in the dark.   
               
               Each person has their own expectations about earnings and traffic. When things go too far below expectations and for too long, people will make adjustments one way or another. That's not meant to sound ominous, just realistic.
               
               Thank you for reading this. I hope it comes off as respectful as well as candid. I apologize if I've gone beyond what I really should type here.

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9. 86

   Jodahposted 2 years ago

   It is great to get some in-depth input by Matt on this subject. It helps.

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