HubPages: Platform No Longer Worth Our Time and Effort

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Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks ago
TAG primarily profits from writers’ content while paying little or nothing.

HubPages’ payment terms have become less transparent.

The website has too many annoying ads, which makes it less enjoyable for people to use and lowers its position in search results.

Though there are no longer editors or managers, in the past, HubPages performed erratic editing and inconsistent application of quality standards.

Long-time writers no longer experience a strong interactive community.

No communication or transparency.

Decline in quality and consistency.

Overall, HP no longer offers fair compensation, a supportive community, or a user-friendly experience for writers, and long-time writers recommend looking for alternative writing platforms.
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  tsmogposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  The only thing I use HP for now is share something with a friend(s) that is too long for an email or that I desire to enhance with images. The creative force of creating a presentation remains with the platform. The published work is a matter of convenience.
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  OldRosesposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Surprisingly, HP asked me to fill out a little satisfaction survey. No, I absolutely wouldn't recommend HP to anyone wanting to earn from their writing. It gave me a chance to vent my spleen. Why do they even bother at this point? Does anyone actually look at the survey results? What do they do with the info. I assume that it will all be negative. Are they just looking for a reason to shut HP down?
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I've skipped those surveys for years. The only thing I can say about HP at this point is that their manuscript software is much better than what Substack offers.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 weeks agoin reply to this
  I just award them 1/10 and write nothing. I get the surveys regularly because I have multiple accounts.
  
  I see the surveys as just a hangover from earlier, more caring times. They presumably take more effort to remove than to let continue.
  
  I suspect that the forums are in a similar category.
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Ken Burgessposted 3 weeks ago
All true... There doesn't seem to be an alternative...until someone builds a new one... With AI about to start creating articles regularly... Not sure anyone will.
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree with your assessment, Ken.
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Ken, it was a fun run, but now it's over.
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Venkatachari Mposted 3 weeks ago
I agree. It is not for income earning.

But, I love the community here.
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  theraggededgeposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Well, as long as you don't mind donating your work to TAG's profits.
  
  I'm afraid I am not so altruistic.
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  Kenna McHughposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Bev, exactly
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  HP is dead to me. I haven't posted in a few years and have no intention of doing so moving forward. The forums are the only interaction on this platform that I'm interested in.
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  viryaboposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Same here.
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  Genna Eastposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  I agree, Venka.
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Venkatachari Mposted 3 weeks ago
Let us keep interacting with one another on the Forums as long as possible.
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  bravewarriorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  That's my intent, Venka!
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Janda Rakerposted 3 weeks ago
Gregory, thanks for this info!
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 3 weeks agoin reply to this
  Janda, I thought that SubStack's text editor would be more sophisticated than HP's because it is a much newer company. Well, I was wrong. For example, unlike HP, Substack does not have separate text and graphics capsules. Everything runs together, which can be quite cumbersome when writing a new post (article) or editing an existing one.
  
  Edit: Janda, you might do well at Substack because you have an established writing niche (travel). However, it takes patience to adjust to their text editor.
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Janda Rakerposted 11 days ago
Gregory, Thanks for the tip about my possibly being okay with Substack. That's a bit encouraging! Though the "text editor" sounds a bit daunting! I'll take a look!
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  The longer I'm at Substack, the more I enjoy being there. The text editor gets easier as time goes on.
  
  Just remember that SubStack is a completely different ballgame than HP. I really like being there! Plus, no ads.
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  theraggededgeposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Could you post a link? I'd like to see it. No one will notice
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  viryaboposted 11 days agoin reply to this
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Yes, I can, but I don't want to be accused of hijacking a thread. You know what I mean.
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  Kenna McHughposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Gregory, I won't accuse you of hijacking. HP is non-existent. I want a link too. Sounds like you have a good think going on over there.
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  theraggededgeposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Go on then. Honestly, there are no forum rules any more... and what's the worst that can happen?
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Here is a link to “get started” on Substack. I suggest you do the task on your personal computer.
  
  https://substack.com/get-started
  
  Substack encourages authors to use the app. Well, you can’t really publish and/or edit a post (article) on the app. It must be done on your PC.
  
  It takes time to learn how to navigate around the site, so patience is a virtue here. I am still learning how to get around the site, and I hear much the same from other newcomers.
  
  Here is another link that you might want to check out. It takes you to Substack Launchpad, a free 7-day email course “giving you everything you need to hit the ground running” at Substack. I have not checked out the course yet, but maybe it can help you.
  
  https://david-mcilroy.kit.com/ab36b95cb8
  
  Bev, I forgot to mention this to Janda above, but I must mention something quite important. Before you sign up with Substack, be sure to create a new and separate email account that is used primarily for Substack. You might be receiving lots of emails from Substack from time to time, and this could compromise an existing email account.
  
  Personally, I don’t like Gmail at all, so I opened a separate Yahoo! (email) account, which is working out well.
  
  You will need to come up with a unique name for your Substack. Since I am publishing articles on American nostalgia from the year 1800 to the present day, my Substack is titled “Looking Back Over the Years.”
  
  Bev, I recollect you had your own niche (brand) here at HP, which could do quite well at Substack. Most authors I have seen so far appear to be writing in one particular niche, as opposed to writing on a variety of topics.
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  theraggededgeposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  I don't want to sign up to Substack, I just wanted to read yours I already have my own site.
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  Kenna McHughposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Bev, I have my own site as well. It's been around for over 10 years. Adding my HP articles to the site shows improvement. That makes me happy! It's all about survival.
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  theraggededgeposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Well, for me, it's just for fun. I have wrung all the moolah I can out of HubPages and now I'm happy to enjoy my 'retirement'.
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  Kenna McHughposted 10 days agoin reply to this
  I hear you! Writers never retire.
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  Kenna McHughposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  Excellent data, Gregory. Your topic will or is doing well.
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  Gregory DeVictorposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  For now, everything is going well, subject to change, of course.
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  Kenna McHughposted 10 days agoin reply to this
  As always!
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  PaulGoodman67posted 10 days agoin reply to this
  But how do you define “doing well”?
  
  That’s more interesting to me than help page links.
  
  Nobody I know earns much there. It seemed like the trendy place to be five years back but is now in decline.
  
  How are your earnings?
  
  The earnings are my concern, I’m sure I could figure out the site with some application. But what’s the point if it’s just coffee money.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 10 days agoin reply to this
  To put it another way:
  
  With HP, I was confident that if I put in the effort to learn the site plus some SEO, I could earn three or four figures a month.
  
  With Medium, I was confident that it was worth studying and learning how to use the platform because there was real potential to earn hundreds a month.
  
  I don't see that same sense of potential with Substack.
  
  In essence, my reluctance is not whether I will be able to figure out the site, it's whether it's worth putting in the time and effort.
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  Cheryl E Prestonposted 27 hours agoin reply to this
  But you don't get paid unless you hae subscribers.
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  bravewarriorposted 26 hours agoin reply to this
  Paid subscribers, Cheryl. I subscribe to a few Substacks but I choose the free option because I don't want to pay to read what I can read for free. So, you're partially right.
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  Cheryl E Prestonposted 26 hours agoin reply to this
  I began writing for Substack but was nto making any money.Are you earning anything?
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  bravewarriorposted 25 hours agoin reply to this
  I don't write on Substack. Are you directing this question to Gregory?
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PaulGoodman67posted 11 days ago
There’s no ads at Substack because you have to build a collection of followers who are willing to subscribe and pay to read your work. That’s difficult for most writers, unless they already have a large collection of fans who’re willing to follow them to a new platform.

The appeal of HP for me was that I got paid for my work and more than just a few dollars.

I also liked writing for the search engines here because it meant I didn’t have to spend a lot of time publicizing my work on social media, etc.

I think those are the challenges of Substack, as I see them. It’s easy to write there, hard to earn a significant amount.

I wish well to those who attempt to build a large body of subscribers, I just worry that some underestimate the challenge.
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  bravewarriorposted 11 days agoin reply to this
  I follow several Substackers but opt for the free subscriptions because I don't want to have to pay to read something when I can get stories or topics sent to my inbox for free.
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Venkatachari Mposted 11 days ago
I constantly hear that Medium and Substack are in decline.
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Janda Rakerposted 9 days ago
Several years ago, I wrote for Examiner.com. It required a lot of work, as a new article had to be published every two weeks in order NOT to move the writer to a lower status, where the pay wasn't so good (or something). I'm forgetting some of the details, but it did cause me to be productive. And I was earning $10-$20 per month, from the beginning. Then it switched to pop culture, and my travel articles were deleted. I kept printed copies of my articles, so I could rewrite them for Hub Pages, but it doesn't pay enough to possibly compete with what I'd done before. Of course, the money is not as important to me as sharing my work with readers. I'll take a look at sub-stack! (And I'm looking at travel essays for literary magazines.) Thanks, Gregory.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Last week I sent an email to
  hdavis@thearenagroup.net and
  HubPages editors asking them to move my article from Owlcation to HubPages. No reply yet, and the articles remain on Owlcation. I cannot delete them too when I tried. What if I republish them somewhere else?
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Interesting, they are making money off that article and you are making nothing. Did you get an email from TAG letting you know that they were taking (stealing) your article? You should have recourse, but you'll have to shake them up a bit.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  I haven't received any email from them yet.
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Venkatachari Mposted 8 days ago
You can republish them. Do slight edits to avoid copyright issues. Because, you are not the owner of your article on Owlcation. It is Arena's property.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  If that is the case, it is outright stealing.
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  theraggededgeposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  You would have had an email notifying you of the changes.
  
  See the pinned posts here: https://hubpages.com/forum/hubpages
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  Deepa damodaranposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Yes, I got the email for other network sites, and I promptly asked to move my articles within the time frame set by them. And they were moved. But regarding Owlcation, I did not get any.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  The emails for the last niche site move were delayed. Many of us found out via the forums before we received an email.
  
  Matt has claimed several times we can ask that our content be moved back to Discover at any time, because we are still in control of our content. Another HP author had their articles moved back in June within hours of emailing Haley.
  
  That said, I'd continue to email her every few days until they are moved back. Perhaps team@hubpages and/or media@thearenagroup .net as well. If everyone continues to remain silent, that is a serious issue.
  
  Keep in mind even if they do finally move them back to Discover, there is nothing stopping them from rewriting your articles and posting their version back to Owlcation.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  I will also continue to send emails requesting to move the articles.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  I will keep sending emails.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  I don't know if you recieved a message from anyone, but I noticed at least one of your articles was moved off Owlcation.
  
  I'm glad they finally moved them to Discover for you.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  Yes, I saw it now. And I got this reply from Haley Davis-
  
  "Thank you for reaching out to me again. I apologize for missing your email the first time around. As requested, your content has been moved back to Discover HubPages. The process may take a few hours to finalize. If your content still hasn't moved by tomorrow, please let me know. "
  
  It is a good sign that emails are responded to and action taken duly.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  That is super odd because your request should have entailed all the niche articles. Something doesn't sound right. Not on your part, but TAG is being thoroughly investigated right now. They are flagrantly sneaky, hiding behind a "third party."
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  I think she is referring to the first round of niche sites moved (Pethelpful & Dengarden), not the individual ones from this last move. I could be wrong though.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Ahh, okay.
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  Deepa damodaranposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Yes, I got my articles moved in the first round. But at that time, they had not mentioned Owlcation articles, and so I kept them there. I was not given any intimation about the next round when Owlcation articles were to be moved.
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  Genna Eastposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Deepa, Kenna is right. I would seek the advice of learned, legal counsel regarding their actions and what steps you can pursue in taking the appropriate recourse. The fact that they are ignoring your emails is another serious issue. And you should be able to republish your own work.
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  Kenna McHughposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  What!?? Venkatachari, you are mistaken. We can remove our articles, thus they become the writer's.
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tsmogposted 8 days ago
Following this thread and the one on the stats my curiosity got to me, so I peeked at the following for insight and hints. I am no business whiz. The first is an interview with Paul E. about the Q2 record revenue growth. The next one is TAG's Brands. The only question I have is didn't Discover use to be one?

INVESTOR RELATIONS
https://investors.thearenagroup.net/

Our Brands
https://thearenagroup.net/our-brands/

Yeah, yeah I'm probably posting what everybody already knows, but I learned and thought I'd share.
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Venkatachari Mposted 8 days ago
I think they got divorced from HP months back. Now, Discover is not a part of Arena. We have become independent.
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  Shesabutterflyposted 8 days agoin reply to this
  Discover/HP are very much a part of TAG. You can tell, because all of the pages contain The Arena Group logo or The Arena Media Brands LLC copyright on the bottom of every page.
  
  HubPages was previously listed under the brands link on TAG, however that was removed shortly after PetHelpful & DenGarden became independent entities, I do believe. Discover was never listed. TAG may be trying to distance themselves image wise from HubPages, but they still own the brand/site.
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Natalie Frankposted 5 days ago
I was hoping to come back and find something left here, but am earning less that 1 cent a day. Not sure exactly what happened as I've been gone for a while but it doesn't seem like it's good. My score went from 98 to 82 which is the lowest it's ever been. Just coming back to connect with community. I say we start something on our own! There has to be enough talent here to pull it off!
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Sure. It's not easy. You can organize it.
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  bravewarriorposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  And how would we earn without sponsors, grants, or some other form of funding for the site?
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Shauna, someone would have to figure that out and do it. I don't think anyone here is into that.
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  bravewarriorposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  I agree, Kenna. My response was part facetiousness part bullshit.
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  I hear you, and that is what I thought.
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Venkatachari Mposted 5 days ago
Though the Arena Logo and copyright coverage are still there, I do not think that we are going to benefit from any of them (unless our articles get featured on their network sites).

There is no mention of the Discover platform on the list of network sites mentioned on the right side of this page.

I withdrew my articles from LetterPile, PairedLife, and one more place (I don't remember).
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  theraggededgeposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  You won't get any benefit even if they are featured on one of their network sites. You certainly won't get paid.
  
  We all have to face the fact that HubPages is finished and 'management' is just rinsing the last few cents from the content that we provided for them.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Yes. What Bev said.
  
  In this case, there's no point "hoping for the best" or thinking that you're going to change their mind and they'll start investing in the site again. It's not going to happen.
  
  There will be no miraculous recovery.
  
  Those who say otherwise are like the shopkeeper in the Monty Python Dead Parrot sketch.
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  viryaboposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  What do you think will become of our accumulated earnings across all our accounts?
  
  Pilfered too?
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  theraggededgeposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Only guessing, but I think you will continue to earn on Discover until the earnings diminish to nothing.
  
  I would be so pleased to know that I am wrong and the site picks up again.
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  Kenna McHughposted 5 days agoin reply to this
  Bev, the majority of us would like to see the site pick up again. However, it's gotten so bad with mining our content and such that there isn't a chance.
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  viryaboposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  I don’t even care anymore. The way we’ve been ignored is sooo wrong and utterly disappointing, they’ve become less than credible to me.
  In my wildest dreams, I never expected them to stoop so low!!! It’s shameful.
  
  The other day, I earned <one cent!
  If it wasn’t so sad, it’ll be hilarious.
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  theraggededgeposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  They don't even realise/acknowledge/care that we all gravitated here for so many reasons - it was a play space, somewhere to experiment with our writing, a place to make connections, a learning experience, somewhere to ask for and offer help - it was whatever it meant for the individual.
  
  It wouldn't be so bad if there were some kind of acknowledgement or expressed sorrow from staff regarding the decline. Especially as HP weathered and survived storms in the past. No effort made; we are the ignored and exploited.
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  bravewarriorposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  You said it, Bev!
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  Kenna McHughposted 4 days agoin reply to this
  It's unfair and sad.
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  viryaboposted 3 days agoin reply to this
  ….and we weathered all those storms with them.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 days agoin reply to this
  Although they emphasized "community" early on, it was always a business. When the investment runs out and they're continuing to lose money, that's it.
  
  I'm sure there's sad feelings with the employees who've been let go, but I doubt that it's reflected in the same way at the higher levels of TAG.
  
  The main purpose of a business is to make money. I doubt very much that they see themselves as "guardians of a community."
  
  After HP merged with Maven/TAG, we never had any contact with the upper echelons anyway.
  
  The community thing was something pushed early on by tech media companies. With the exception of a few companies, like, say, Wikipedia, I see it as a business strategy.
  
  Of course, it's quite possible to have a community with people in the HP forums or in a Facebook group, but it's a mistake to see that same relationship with the company running everything.
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  bravewarriorposted 2 days agoin reply to this
  As in any business, it's the people that make or break it (the business). Treating your people right and recognizing their contributions boost morale and productivity which directly affects the bottom line. TAG doesn't recognize that nor is it part of their mission statement. I say this, not because their mission statement is made public, but as someone who's on the receiving end of their disregard for the folks who ARE their business.
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wpcooperposted 4 days ago
Well what can we do about it I miss the old hot pages when it was exciting and you could generate some revenue and get an audience I don't know what's happened I don't know what to do
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psycheskinnerposted 2 days ago
I think it's pretty clear they have changed their business model to rely on staff and AI exclusively. Not necessarily in that order.
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  PaulGoodman67posted 2 days agoin reply to this
  Yes. Both the public announcement and their actions make that clear.
  
  If this was traditional work, we’d have been told to collect our stuff and go home. But it isn’t, so we linger in a kind of virtual purgatory.
  
  That doesn’t mean it’s not over, though. It’s been over for some time.
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2. 83
  Kenna McHughposted 44 hours agoin reply to this
  Yes. It's a sad state of affairs. I am moving all my articles.
  reply report

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