Misha..i got a comment and it was about winning 500,000.00 dollars and it was from a new hubber named don-wi8lliams 1..and isaw the same comment on 2 other hubbers..what is this about? am afraid G-Ma ) hugs
What Lissie said
Relax G-Ma, it's normal. Didn't you get letters in your mail box saying you won a lottery? This is the same thing
I have the greatest respect for her integrity. I learned Squidoo from tiff's free utube videos i have the number 1 ranked Travel group on squidoo.I have used some of the reports i purshesed from her on this lens. I have only been on squidoo 3 months she has sent me some free software over the last 2 months very good marketing software. I was looking around her website one nite and tryed to buy some reports and the shopping cart did not work so i e-mailed her and let her know the next thing i know she sends me a full years worth of reports free she is the most honest person i have done business With and i have been on online for 12 years.
Okay, I'll get this out of the way up front - I just joined to post a reply on this thread so there's no need to call me out for it :-)
After getting an email from Tiffany pointing me here and asking what I thought of her as a marketer, I read through many of the posts in this thread.
First, let me say that I don't think Tiffany is the type of marketer who promotes spamming sites like this. Her Squidoo ebook at least made a point of stressing the need for creating value.
However, a product that teaches how to leverage a site like this effectively will teach those who aren't interested in "playing nice" how to spam it. The information isn't the problem, it's all in how the person receiving that information uses it.
So Tiffany, in response to your question via email I don't think you're a spam marketer but if you honestly think that selling a book about how to use a free website to increase your traffic to the business opportunity/internet marketing crowd isn't going to add to the crap on that site, you're being a bit naive.
As far as the issue that seems to be at hand in this thread - using information given freely to create a Hubpages ebook - I think both sides are somewhat at fault. Tiffany should have either been more up-front about what she was asking for, or taken that information and used it herself for longer than it appears she did so she could internalize it and then create a how-to book entirely herself.
Flipping from asking the questions to doing an early announcement on the new book so quickly is just asking for trouble.
However, the people answering the questions are doing so in a public environment where anyone can get access to the information. As far as I'm aware, it's not copyrighted and there's nothing to stop someone from using it exactly the way Tiffany plans to. Once again it's a little naive to think that everyone asking a question is doing so with no ulterior motives.
This is a perfect example of the divide between marketers who sell information on leveraging social networks and the social networks themselves, which in many cases are close-knit communities of people with their own culture. If you don't fully understand (and adhere to) that culture, you're going to create these mini (or sometimes not so mini) firestorms.
Tiffany is coming from having done this same type of thing for Squidoo, but I think the difference is that the culture there is a marketing-first culture, so nobody would really question her selling an ebook about it.
I expect there will be plenty more replies here defending Tiffany once people read her email, which is understandable. They're part of her community and would defend it just as quickly as the people here defend their own.
Unfortunately, most marketers don't realize that it's not the marketing that offends people, it's the appearance of "outsiders" who don't understand the culture. Again, a bit of a problem on both sides - the outsiders who don't spend the time to learn the customs of the site and the insiders who want to keep the status quo.
John: You have some good points, but if you peruse the forums here, you'll find loads of questions posed by people who want to do things right here, not for the purposes of selling an ebook, but so they can positively contribute to the site.
John said, "or taken that information and used it herself for longer than it appears she did so she could internalize it and then create a how-to book entirely herself."
This is EXACTLY what I'm doing. I'm not rushing the eBook. The freebie report was just a "here's what I'm doing" and it let people download it. It gave me GREAT feedback. I got lots of questions from my customers "Hey, while you're out it, make sure you put int here how to do this or why this happens..."
As for coming in and on post 1 saying, "I'm here to write an eBook." It's a lose-lose situation. First, that's not the only reason I'm here. I'm here first and foremost for me. For my own efforts. Secondly, I'm here to learn to pass along that information. But surely youdon't expect the reaction would have been different had I announced my eBook, do you?
Now as for people inevitably using the information for spam, they already ARE. Visit ANY im forum and it's prevalent - "Use Hub pages for links" and "use hub pages for quick and easy cut nad paste PLR"
This will at least correct some of the misguided (like even myself).
Tiffany, if that's what you're doing, great. In that case I think part of the problem is that you "announced" the book too early and it gives the impression that you're just flipping the information you get in response to your questions into an ebook.
For all I know you may have planned to take six months to write it so you could get more familiar with the workings of Hubpages. But after reading your email the other day where you mentioned this new book, I was under the impression it would be coming pretty soon.
I do think it would have been different because the people who are offended that you're using their answers to write an ebook (whether that's what you're doing or not, that *appears* to be the case) could have just not posted a response.
I understand the process of researching markets that you aren't necessarily an expert in by picking the brains of people who are. I just think you made the leap from researching to announcing the book too quickly, and you stepped on some toes.
As I said in my original post, I don't think you are promoting spamming with your products. I actually think you're one of the more reputable people in the "internet marketing" business.
But the fact that there are already people using the information for spam doesn't mean your product isn't going to add to it. You've probably got a pretty good sized list and you'll have a lot of big JV partners when you launch the book. They're going to reach a lot of people that either haven't heard of Hubpages or haven't used it before.
A certain percentage of those people are not building a real business - they're out for a quick buck. If Hubpages is the latest thing their favorite "guru" is pushing, that's where they're going to head.
This argument of whether you should sell this information that can be used for good or evil is hardly new, and you're not the first person it has affected. It's much like selling guns - guns don't kill people, people do. But does making it easy to get the gun contribute to the problem?
(Just thought I'd add something that could make this thread REALLY polarized )
Don't know who you are, but you definitely make sense Welcome to Hubpages, I'm glad this occasion brought you down here.
My goodness, watch where you step in here lots of live grenades rolling around. Feelin the love? Not so much..lol I'm not here to judge any of you because I don't know you nor do I see the usefulness of the "pack" mentality on display. I will say I like Jenny though, she seems to have quite the "grasp" on life and all it's wondrous possibilities!
I am on Tiffany Dow's list and I must say, in the internet marketing world she is a fine example of what other marketers should aspire to be. She is a kind and exceptionally helpful individual who (this is virtually unheard of with other marketers) will actually take the time to respond to your email personally to answer your questions. She has done this on multiple occasions with me without fail. Tiffany, for those of you who obviously don't know her, is about bettering herself and others who are fortunate enough to be in league with her.
I have removed myself from many so called "guru lists" in the past for the simple fact that many of them like to sell and/or recommend products to you on a perpetual basis. This would be "greed" in it's most obvious form. Who's list am I still on? Tiffany's! Why? She doesn't do this, this woman gives us great free advice and tips left and right, rarely does she promote something. Also you can be assured that if/when she does, it will be something of great benefit to you. I wanted to state this distinct differance for those of you who may not be aware of how some marketers operate in a way other than the way that Tiffany does.
I am new to hubpages so I am unaware of what it takes to create a proper hub at present. Later on however, when I create one and have questions. I know that Tiffany would be willing to help me if I had a question about it without passing judgement on me for my lack of knowledge. True, I could even purchase her upcoming book on hubs. After seeing her weather this reign of fire on this forum, it shows me just how committed she is to gaining the proper knowledge of hubpages and how to build one in accordance with it's TOS. With that, I know her completed e-book on this topic will be something of great value to those of us who need the knowledge without the reign of fire.
The people who approach the forums without deceit receive no flames.
The people who want to know how to make good quality hubs for the sake of hubbing and not for the sake of taking this information, spinning it and making some kind of profit off of it, will receive helpful tips.
Read the forums more thoroughly, you'll see dozens of threads where people came to genuinely learn what this hubpages thing is REALLY about, and were given loads of helpful information.
Next S.P. Please?
On a side note - Mark are you going to use your sock puppet to get up to another 2000 posts?
The tone of this thread has moved beyond constructive debate into petty bickering. It is now closed to replies.
Hi. I'm another one of those people who are popping in from Tiffany's list. She asked for feedback about how she comes across as a marketer. Mostly I'm going to write about my own experience with online communities, since I think it's more relevant to the problem.
When you're a newcomer in an established community, people are a little wary of you at first. Most communities will be friendly if you're nice and try to follow the rules. (There are usually implied and unwritten rules as well.) However, it takes quite a while before you're accepted as "one of the gang," or at least respected as someone with clout. It happens more quickly if you're active, make knowledgeable contributions, pick up on the community's quirks, in-jokes, etc. Even then, it takes time.
I know this both from being an outsider and from being on the inside looking warily at the "outsiders." When a community becomes very important to you, you're ready to defend it from anyone who only seems interested in abusing it or milking it. Some will be quicker to pass judgment and call in the cavalry than others.
It seems to me that Tiffany is still in a "newbie" phase here in the Hub community, or at least hasn't been embraced by it. If you're seen as a relative newbie and suddenly talk about writing and selling an eBook about Hubpages, it probably makes you look as though you've only been using the community as a tool. Nobody likes to feel used.
Then of course there are people who will ALWAYS be annoyed by eBooks about free services, regardless of how nice, knowledgeable, and honest the author is. I don't know how much this has been figuring into the debate here, but that doesn't seem to be the issue.
I don't see anything wrong with writing an eBook about a particular tool and selling it. I've read some of your eBooks, Tiffany, and I respect and admire your work. It just looks like you broke some unspoken rules of etiquette when it comes to online communities. It doesn't make me think less of you, but I can also see where this community is coming from.
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