My Hubs Just Suck
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago
0Hi Hubbers!
Or what is it we call ourselves here? LOL - Sorry, I’m a Squid until now, so I’m fairly new to the depths of Hub.
I’m wondering if anyone has tips on what makes a Hub rank well?
Now I know no one knows the perfect algorithm used, but basically, like on Squidoo, there are things that make a rank better.
My Hubs range from 60s to 70s. They have 100% original content and images, but a poor Hub rank.
Any advice?
Thanks ahead of time!
Oh! My Hubs are:
/toptoddlertoys
/How-to-Alter-Private-Label-Rights-Products
and
/Whats-Your-Excuse-for-Not-Writing-an-eBook
I’m just getting started and plan on doing more with health here, but haven’t built anymore lenses until I know what I’m doing wrong. It's frustrating taking time to write and add images and then the Hub doesn't go anywhere while I see all sorts of 90s flowing around here.
Thanks!
Tiff
- Marye Audetposted 16 years ago0
- daflaposted 16 years ago0
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
You know, there's something about web 2.0 forums that just makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. It's so great to see people helping other people and being supportive when so many in forums online flame people and get into ridiculous arguments.
So...that said, THANK you! I will take the advice and dig into it deeper. I just wanted to make sure you experienced Hubbers weren't looking at mine going, "Sheez - she's doing it ALL wrong!"
I guess it's similar to a lens on Squidoo in that your Google ranking won't matter based on your Hub ranking. I have lenses that don't have a good LensRank but they're #1 in Google, so I don't care lol (Squidoo switched servers, fyi - so yes, they're acting up right now.)
I'll start getting into it a bit more and see if my health topics have a better effect. Thanks so much for the help!
tiff
PS - If anyone knows the url to those hub rank pages, let me know! I'm gonna try to find them on my own.Go to Darkside's profile and start digging!
http://hubpages.com/profile/darkside
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
Thanks! I'll go dig into his/her profile now.
Okay, I gave it another try – this time on a health topic:
http://hubpages.com/hub/loweryourcholesterol
Now…
Questions About Hub Making:
1.) When you’re first making a Hub, do you have to enter a tag, then click add another tag, then enter the tag, then click add another tag, etc.? Or can I just add as many spaces as I want and then go in and fill them in?
2.) Is there a limit as to the # of tags a Hub can have?
3.) When adding images, what is “Add to batch list?”
4.) I only know how to align images to the right. Since some text capusles are long, is there a way to align another image to the left? So in other words, I might have an image in the upper right corner, and then in the lower left corner?
5.) It’s not okay to have multiple links to one location, yet an RSS feed does…so…what’s the difference?
Tiff
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
Hey Maddie!
I did go to my Squidoo lenses and add a HUGE area to promote my Hub (the heart health one).
I do just need to get a move on so to speak, don't I?
I got so comfortable at Squidoo that it was hard to leave my comfy spot. But it's very welcoming here, and even though my Hubs don't appear to be great at first, I hope to learn a lot from you all.
tiff Geez. You've gotten about 20 fans in the past couple hours.
I think my hubs suck too, everybody.- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
Yes, I'm writing an eBook about it. Step by Step for newbies. But I've been completely honest with my customers that I'm just know learning the ropes myself. Not promoting myself as an expert.
That's what this whole process is. I've been in touch with several Hub staff, letting them know what I'm doing (researching everything for my eBook). The reason for that is, I want to make sure I write about it so that everything adheres to not just TOS, but etiquette, too.
My customers (and Warriors) like the style I explain things in - very non-technical, step by step, so you don't have to go posting in forums asking questions - it's all laid out for you. So what I do (with Squidoo, Twitter, and other sites like Hub), is I dig my heels in, learn the ropes, and pass the information along.
That's why I gave them that sneak peek showing them how mine failed initially. The eBook will end with me being an expert because for the next month or so, that's my job - to become one. Hence, the questions
Is this offensive? To some, I know the whole "make money online" thing is, but it's not meant to be all spammy. I'm going about it the right way I believe.
tiff - TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
PS - I'm not just using the forum as research (wanted to clarify).
Like with Squidoo, I was a member before I decided to write an eBook and only when I noticed success did I decide I wanted to share the knowledge of it.
Even though "my hub pages suck," they ARE performing rank wise in Google for me for the keyword phrases I was targeting, so like Squidoo, it's another site I wanted to share.
I will be a permanent member here, not leaving once the eBook is complete. I'm not using the people, in other words. I really want to learn. And so do many others (not make money niche, but people who promote gardening, parenting, caregiving, etc.).
tiff - TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
Embitca -
My customer base is not Hub audiences who are already there, but IM people who are already following me, which is why to my list and to the WF, I disclosed I’m a complete newbie learning the ropes. That was my disclosure, but I understand your concern. Mine? That everyone at Hub would panic (as some seem to do) and then I’d have to explain what I’m about to explain…
For the record, no one gave me a “blessing” about this – they simply know about it. The “bitch session stems from lissie entering a WSO that I paid for to list a free report (just stating that Hub Pages is a great resource, basically and letting people know I’m going to dive into it and write an eBook) and she slammed me that I sell info products (sarcastically referring to how much I charge for my Squidoo eBook and saying, “you’re no expert,” etc.). I thought it was quite rude, so I responded.
I still don’t see how I need to disclose it here to people since I’m learning for myself first and foremost. But I’ve not hidden it. It’s just not my target audience – because the people I’m asking questions to already know.
I’m not just posting random questions people need to know. I’m doing the work, and running into issues as a Hub member myself, so I personally (regardless of the eBook) need assistance. And it is digging to me – I first try to resolve the issue myself. Then I contact people I know who use Hubs. THEN, if no one knows, I post a question. But I do apologize if you feel I should have disclosed before page 2.
I do understand your fear that they’re going to poison the system. They already are. Seen spam lately? It’s because tons of marketers are already using Hub Pages (there was a HUGE buzz about it before I even thought of writing an eBook) – but the wrong way.
I teach people that the site is a waste of time unless you follow it the way it’s supposed to be used, and then you can reap great rewards, and you’re right – the best way for me to convey the proper usage is to get the insight of people like you, who DO already understand it.
It’s no secret that the TOS isn’t enough to explain the fine details. For instance, I discovered last night that I can never be a flagship hub builder because on a Hub, I had used a ClickBank link – and they frown on that. I didn’t know that! I only knew you couldn’t have 2 of the same links.
People need some help having this all laid out for them. Including me! It’s a lengthy process to me. Test, fail, test again…try to get it right. I don’t half-do it, but you’re right – some will only read the headlines. But they’re already here anyway.
Hub is so much stricter than Squidoo. They’re not going to have an easy time of it if they spam, and I’ll emphasize that – that it’s not for anyone who plans to take the shortcut route, and that they’ll be wasting their money on the eBook if that’s their intention.
Jenny,
Good points. In the eBook, I will also teach traffic generation methods. I haven’t even instituted those yet to my Hubs – it’s a last step. But these niche marketers have resources on that – their goal is to find places they can become experts on things and share information.
And you’re right, there is SEO value in the Hubs – everyone knows how well they rank. I will be sharing the same tip – you have to maintain the Hub score, or you get nofollow, so that’s good they’ll know – it’ll make them better Hubbers, right?
I don’t have to misrepresent the opportunity. A lot of marketers are already seeing great success with Hub Pages. You’re right about paying established Hubbers to Hub for you. In fact, I’ll be doing in this book what I did with Squidoo – providing a list of names and contacts of Hub experts who would like to do this for a fee.
If anyone wants on that list, let me know – because the Squidoo experts got swamped. People like knowing the information for themselves, but they much prefer outsourcing it if they can afford it, so they’ll hire you.
I deeply appreciate you saying I’m trying to do the right thing so give me a chance. I’m used to this – went through it with Squidoo. I personally chat on the phone and via email with Seth Godin and other Squid staff. I always work to try to help decrease spam and teach people the right way. They’re here anyway. Now, and as lissie said – she’s flagging 40% of the Hubs or whatever…they’re crawling all over this place! But NO ONE has guided them, so they’ll keep ruining it until they know.
I’m gonna write the eBook. There are two others I know of already that are HORRIBLE and are teaching spam and blackhat techniques. If you know of me and my work, then you’ll know I’m a marketer who is 100% reachable by my customers. I hold their hand. I tell the truth, and I’m an ethical marketer, not a spam factory.
It’s not my fault I’m alienating Hub influencers – it’s a natural response by everyone to fear an influx of “marketers,” but I don’t see what I’ve done wrong.
You said, “What will it do to your refund rates if your customers arrive in the HubPages forums to read seven threads about how crappy Tiffany Dow's HubPages eBook is? The issue is deeper than just etiquette. It is about philosophy, orientation, and honoring what has been built by those who came before you.”
I’m not worried about my refund rate because I know my product will be good. This is MY business and I respect and honor MY work – the writing about this type of stuff. I believe you are all going to be happy with what you read if and when you read it.
You said, “If it scares you, admit it. If it challenges you, let us know. If you don't know how but you're willing to give it a go, say that. HubPages is not a Web 2.0 platform - it is a place where people talk to PEOPLE.”
Yes – that’s what I’m trying to do here! It’s why I’m visiting hubs, posting in the forums (not just the help one), and it’s why I’m reaching out via email to the higher ups. It’s why I announced in the WF that I was a total newbie – I’m not a marketer who fakes the facts. I’ve said bluntly to my list that Hubs is hard – it IS! Maybe not to you guys, but it’s difficult for me. I’m so used to Squidoo and it IS like the wild west comparatively.
But I love Squidoo. I want to love Hub Pages, too. And this whole reaction is WHY you don’t go into a forum and with your first post say, “Hey I’m writing an eBook – how do you…” Because I KNOW what many of my colleagues are and do. I know how they hire cheap ghostwriters to paste together a piece of utter crap teaching blackhat methods.
I’m not them.
Mark –
If you read my other threads (or emails), you’ll see that I tell everyone, “I’m JUST NOW digging into Hub pages, learning from a total newbie perspective…” Don’t worry, I’m not positioning myself as an expert YET.
(embitca, this was the type of panic response I was talking about).
Mark said, “Pretend to be too stupid to work out how the site works, then ask questions on the forum until the people doing the answering are so fed up with newbies asking for some help with their hub entitled "Generating massive amounts of traffic using hubpages." that no one answers any questions any more.”
No, I’m not pretending to be too stupid to figure the site out. There are lots of people asking questions about these things because it’s not 100% clear. What exactly about that headline had you irked? I tell people they’re not alone if they’ve had trouble figuring out Hub Pages. I’ve read countless threads lately that said, “Why did my Hub page get shut down?” No one even realizes it’s not shut down! They’re not educated. They want someone to walk them through it and no, they don’t have time to get to know you folks and learn from you. I’m making that MY job.
Lissie – you know why that whole discussion proceeded, don’t you? Because those in the WF are generally supportive of me. My customers trust me because I don’t mislead them so when they see me being attacked by someone in my own WSO, which is bad etiquette there, it makes them come out in droves to support me. It’s a loving community, like this is. There, you’re on the outside – here, I am.
I just didn’t like the way you acted as if I was an evil doer for selling free information and yet you were promoting a WordPress for Dummies guide on YOUR hub – and WordPress is a free site, so it seemed hypocritical.
Listen…I get where you’re coming from. I had to put my big girl panties on to even come in here and face it. I get it. I really do. I hate the crappy eBook and “get rich quick” stuff too. That’s not me. Learn about me first, then pass judgment. Please. That’s all I ask.
I’m not here to ruin anything, but to educate people about the right way to use Hub Pages. You don’t HAVE to help me. I’ll figure it out eventually. But I hope that you do. I hope that if you have a great tip that will help the community, you share it – because this IS a peer to peer place and it’s the ONLY way many marketers will learn.
I’m gonna see if anyone on my list is a Hub user already – perhaps they can come and give their own $0.02 about what type of person I am. I promise, I don’t have bad marketer B.O.
TiffThis is actually partly what prompted me to add my thoughts. I've seen this before where someone gets called out for something and they get a whole bunch of people who are part of their community jumping in to defend them on another community that they aren't a part of. Tiffany's email didn't outright ask for people to support her in this thread, but it included a link here and I think it's a safe assumption some of those people are going to jump in and defend her.
I thought I'd add my feedback here instead of emailing back to Tiffany directly, since I think this is where the discussion should really be happening.
Honestly, I feel almost like a turncoat because I don't agree with her position even though I'm an "internet marketer" myself
Tiffany, I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think you promoted spamming and I don't think you are intentionally trying to take advantage of the people here who helped you.
I just think you overstepped the boundaries set by the members here and instead of simply saying you made a mistake, you're digging yourself a deeper hole. Whether or not you agree with those boundaries is irrelevent in my opinion, because the fact is they exist.
If you start your own social network/community site you can set the boundaries and terms however you like, but when you're playing in someone else's sandbox you have to play by their rules.
John
I am irked because you have taken the lazy way of asking these questions and they are not for your benefit in making better hubs, they are so you can have some one else answer all these questions for you which you then plan to sell as an ebook.
You did not state this when you asked your original question which then turned into a list of questions.
The other thing that irks me is you are planning on selling an ebook that is entitled:
"Harnessing Traffic from Hub Pages"
And, in fact, are already promoting that book, despite the fact that you have not actually learned how to do what you are proposing to sell people the secret to.
So your intention is to encourage the sort of person we see here all the time who are just here to promote something outside this site. You are missing one of the main points of hubpages as a community and will be attempting to sell this to others.
As a matter of fact, your "Cooking for cholesterol ," hub breaks HPs terms of service in that it has more than 2 links to the same site in it and you have an amazon affiliate link hidden in the text rather than using an amazon capsule. Along with another clickbank affiliate link in the text. You are attempting to avoid hubpages' rules and are trying to work the system. Do we really want a bunch more people here doing that? Not me thanks.
So I have flagged it as overly promotional. Whether it stays up or manages to just squeak past the rules is not up to me
I could have respected you a lot more if you had taken the trouble to become a member of the community rather than taking the slightly underhanded approach you have done. But when I came to a forum thread and discover that my time has been wasted answering questions that are not to actually help some one, I get irked. Which is why I had not continued this thread until I just couldn't resist it.
That help?What is lazy about a.) trying to do it myself first. b.) asking someone I know who might know and THEN c.) if those 2 didn't work, asking in the forum? Isn't that the way it ought to go? And you're wrong - they ARE for my benefit. First and foremost. Secondly, for me to convey to others who need help.
I'm sorry it irks you that I'm titling it Harnessing Traffic from Hub Pages. Don't get why you're mad, but ok. Should it be titled, "How to make $3,171 a month from Hub Pages" so that all the desperate make money hungry people believe it? No...I want to talk about traffic, but that's a tentative title anyway.
I have been nothing but upfront about the fact that I am NOT an expert. Read this:
http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/topic … _ID=235061
Instead of ranting to me and being mean, why not educate me in a kinder way, Mark? Jenny, embetica, maddie, and others seem to be able to do this. I'm glad you pointed out my cholesterol Hub. The rules are not clear about clickbank, etc. hidden amazon links? I'm just learning, so if there's something awry, flag it and I'll learn, but MARK - you're missing the point of my eBook.
The point is to learn this stuff so that others AVOID making the same mistakes. In fact, I got requests from my own customers asking me to do a book on Hub Pages because they were confused, angry that their hubs were shut down (meaning unpublished) without knowing why, etc. What is so bad about someone learning all of this so they can explain it to others so they don't have to sit in a forum and ask endless questions to learn?
>>As a matter of fact, your "Cooking for cholesterol ," hub breaks HPs terms of service in that it has more than 2 links to the same site in it and you have an amazon affiliate link hidden in the text rather than using an amazon capsule. Along with another clickbank affiliate link in the text. You are attempting to avoid hubpages' rules and are trying to work the system. Do we really want a bunch more people here doing that? Not me thanks.<<
See? I had no idea about clickbank before. Is it against TOS or just make you ineligible for flagship? Because Jason only told me that it makes you ineligible for flagship and he obviously knows I'm using a CB link.
>>I could have respected you a lot more if you had taken the trouble to become a member of the community rather than taking the slightly underhanded approach you have done. But when I came to a forum thread and discover that my time has been wasted answering questions that are not to actually help some one, I get irked. Which is why I had not continued this thread until I just couldn't resist it.<<
Actually, I joined 6 months ago and did get help here. I can't change your mind if you feel I'm not here to learn for myself, but I can tell you that you're not me so you don't know. I AM here to learn for me. AND for my customers. BOTH.
>>That help?<<
Sure did
LOL
I am not ranting. You asked my why I was irked and I told you. I think you misrepresented yourself in the first place. Simple as that. You should see me when I am ranting
All the answers you need are here:
http://hubpages.com/faq/
http://hubpages.com/profile/darkside
But the question you are really trying to answer is:
"How do I get around the hubpages' rules against promoting non-sharing revenue streams so I don't get my hubs shut down?"
Correct?
I will answer that question for $1,000. Payable in advance.Check's in the mail. But seriously, no. Not correct!
You're assuming something that's not right. I NEED to know the rules and let me clarify something. I look at the FAQ page and here's what it says about overly promotional:
>>linking repeatedly to the same site within a hub or across many hubs
including links to a page that contains largely the same content as your hub
linking to products or services unrelated to a Hub's content
including more than 2 links to any one domain
short "teasers" with links to "read more" at another site
including promotional links on content that is unoriginal (i.e. not exclusive to HubPages); promotional links can only be included on content that is exclusive to HubPages <<
So I don't see where I can't promote no-sharing revenue streams. This is the type of stuff you assume everyone knows. It's not clear. It it against TOS to have a link to your own site where you make money? All it says in another area is "to dubious products" - what does THAT mean?
Gamergirl said: >>If you put half the effort you've spent trying to argue why you should be able to draw in spammers and get rich quick kids to Hubpages on actually WRITING and IMPROVING Hubs, your hubs wouldn't suck. But then, what is good for a community of writers doesn't matter when there's money to be made, right?<<
Well I know my writing's good. The improvement comes from things I'm needing help on, which is why I ask here, but of course, I'm a yucky marketer - ick! So I shouldn't be allowed to ask for help, right?
The only reason I'm "arguing" is because false things are being said about me. I have a right to defend myself, even if you won't give me a chance. Just judge ahead of time
And a lot of it WILL be free. But not all. I will have email autoresponders,
blog tips, etc. You have the freedom to answer or not when and if I need help.
tiff
- TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago0
K. Hopefully my last post on this topic - I have to get back to finishing up the eBook.
I'm not going to continue worrying about the community being angered over who I am or what I'm doing with this site. I know my own intentions, and that's all that matters.
If you feel like posting a reply when and if I need a question answered, go for it. If not, don't.
If you want to be on the list of Hubbers who build hubs for people, send me your info. If not, don't.
I'll be finishing up the Hub eBook as soon as I feel confident that I know what the site is all about.
I do deeply appreciate the crash course for my own knowledge - even Mark's rough edges educated me that I might be doing something wrong on my cholesterol Hub, so I will check into it.
Sorry if I stunk up the place. Hopefully I'll come out of this smelling better in the end once you see what I do with it.
tiff LOL - You joined just to post this? hehe.
What position? Make your mind up - Either I am afraid my position is under threat or you don;t have to ask : "who the hell are you?"
There are no positions here - or at least none that I can see being threatened by yet another IMer who wants to skirt the rules. Simple fact is if you read the faq and accept the spirit rather than the letter of the rules, you will never run into a problem.
I understand what's going on here too.
Goodbye.
Darkside taught me a new word last time this happened:
sock puppetsyep, absolutely
Sock puppets are sneaky second personas designed to make it look as though lots of people share the same opinion
Can you guess who puppeteer is?
- Mark's Number Oneposted 16 years ago0
This is my number one sock puppet
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