Help with Abusive Child

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  1. starme77 profile image78
    starme77posted 13 years ago

    O.k guys , ya'll know I got rid of the abusive husband, I started the hub challenge, (only got 2 done but it was something any way) just worked really hard to  get into a normal. peaceful  life with 11 different caseworkers and counselers and crap it's hard to remember who is who... supervised visitations with the 17 and 14 year old and their Dad , welfare, appointments after appointments , my mother in laws estate to settle from 3,000 miles away ... and bang .... here we go , now my kid who is 17 and 6 feet tall abuses me and my daughter mentally and physically, I know he learned this from his father but, we can't live this way anymore, I got him counseling, got him a rabbit , tried in every way I possibly could to help him because I know he is just a kid , but what else can I do when me and my daughter are bruised up because he is abusive? I think he cant live here anymore , I think we shouldn't have to live this way , what do ya'll think? I mean I know he is just a kid , but I find myself in a similar abusive situation as I did with his father , its sad for me to see it in him, but I have been working for months really hard to get him to stop and he won't what do I do now?

    1. goldenpath profile image66
      goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      He needs to be aware that you and your daughter are of great worth and value.  At his age it will be tough to teach him values of compassion, sensitivity and understanding.  As you've said, he probably got this from his father.  It goes to prove that a child's behavior starts in the home. 

      If counseling has become fruitless you may need to seek legal action.  You and your daughter's safety is of paramount concern.  YOU both are NOT to be abused!  Investigate options.

      Above all, when in discussion with him do so calmly, soft voiced and while sitting.  No perception of threat is to be seen.  Your home is to be your own holy space.  Conduct your conversations as such.

      Good luck!

    2. profile image0
      kimberlyslyricsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I hate this is happening to your family, but clearly needs to be handled on a professional level.

      The odd fact is your asking a forum who tend to may have some of the most verbal abusive people around.

      But then again, that could also mean we will know more than any professional ever could.

      Good luck in all seriousness


  2. luvpassion profile image63
    luvpassionposted 13 years ago

    Got him a rabbit? To abuse?

  3. starme77 profile image78
    starme77posted 13 years ago

    I got him a rabbit for the love, animals are theraputic and can help in calming , love is an important element in life
    and it did help him to stop the agressiveness some, it did make a difference

    1. luvpassion profile image63
      luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree; however, I'm not sure this would be very theraputic for a 17 year old...good luck.


      1. starme77 profile image78
        starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I disagree he asked for one  at christmas time , he has passion and love in him deep down , and  animals help , his counselor I just started him with is country counseling and she uses horses for therapy , he went for the first time on Saturday , I believe there is power in the unconditional love of animals

        1. luvpassion profile image63
          luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          71% of pet-owning women entering women’s shelters reported that their batterer had injured, maimed, killed or threatened family pets for revenge or to psychologically control victims; 32% reported their children had hurt or killed animals.
          68% of battered women reported violence towards their animals. 87% of these incidents occurred in the presence of the women, and 75% in the presence of the children, to psychologically control and coerce them.

          Ascione, F.R., Weber, C. V. & Wood, D. S. . The abuse of animals and domestic violence: A national survey of shelters for women who are battered. Society & Animals 5(3), 205-218.

          1. profile image0
            girly_girl09posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for posting this! I am familiar with this report and the statistics but couldn't find the source. I have also read other studies that report an even higher rate.

            Either way, there certainly is an extremely high correlation of animal abuse and domestic abuse.

          2. starme77 profile image78
            starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            while I understand the statistics, its not so with my son - he's big but he dosnt understand how big - he thinks little kids can beat him up - he wouldn't hurt anything - he dosn't want to hurt anything - he really loves his rabbit and his two dogs and shows a ton of compassion and concern for my 86 year old mother in law - I have been able - through the years to secretly put some faith and love into this child - he cares - and he cares about himself and his future - what he's doing with the abuse thing is learned behavior - a son looks up to his father - unfourtanalty my son looked up to an abuser - hes acting out his pain and frustration and doing what he has seen , but he is totally fixabale - if he was hurting animals instead of loving them , well , then we would have a lot bigger problem - which is one reason I got it for him , to see how he would react , and he did so with love

            1. luvpassion profile image63
              luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Sorry I his abuse to you and your daughter are verbal then?

              1. starme77 profile image78
                starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                verbal, mental, physical, but statistics are just that , statistics, my son has the compassion and love deep down , really he dosnt want to hurt anyone - like I explained he is acting out a learned behavior , this in not like and inherited mental disorder or something - its a learned behavior there is a difference there that statistics dont really elaberate on

                1. luvpassion profile image63
                  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm sorry starme, I can tell by reading your past posts your feel in your heart things that you can't explain by his actions. I hope everything works out for you...really, best wishes.


            2. tantrum profile image61
              tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              You say

              which is one reason I got it for him , to see how he would react , and he did so with love

              So you bought a pet to your son, regardless of what was going to happen ? Like a test ?
              what about the poor animal well fare ???

  4. Greek One profile image64
    Greek Oneposted 13 years ago

    it's a tough one... you have to protect yourself and your other child I think

  5. profile image0
    girly_girl09posted 13 years ago

    If he is 17 years old, then he is old enough to know right from wrong. He is no longer "just a kid", he is almost a legal adult. Domestic abuse is a crime, please don't enable your son. I am glad to hear you have him in counseling, but there is much more that you can do.

    If he is physically abusing you, it is your responsibility, no matter how difficult it may be, to file a police report the next time he hurts you or your other child. Otherwise, the cycle will never ever stop. It is your responsibility to protect your younger child, too!

    Don't just threaten your son with filing a police report - do it the next time he hurts you and follow through.

    I see cases like this all the time at the legal clinic I volunteer at. People enable their kids wayyyy too much. It is in his best interest to teach him that his behavior is wrong and will not be tolerated by anybody. It's tough love, but domestic abuse is a tough cycle to break.

    1. donotfear profile image84
      donotfearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'd have to agree with this. Hard as it may be, he must learn that there are consequences for his actions. Unfortunately, he d learned from his father so it's ingrained in him to continue the cycle. Don't stand for another minute of it. Do what you have to do to protect yourself and your other child.

  6. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 13 years ago

    I'm just thinking about this problem, but it is my experience that a lot of kids, esp. boys, go through a wild and uncontrollable stage sometime between the ages of 16 and 19. Especially boys that have had a bad time in previous years...
    He'll grow out of it, I'm sure of it. You sound like you've been a good mum over the years, and he will have learned from you too, not just his violent dad.
    I wish I could advise you what to do now, but I just don't know. You seem to be doing all the right things with counselling and whatever. Is there a male influence nearby he respects and will listen to? A grandfather perhaps? A school teacher? Is the counsellor male?

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No the counseler is not male - she does have a phd in psychology though and uses her farm as therapy , I dont want to file a police report  on a straight a student headed for college , but I may have to because he wont stop , he has no repect for me at  all, or his sister and my 86 year old mother in law with altzheimers cant live like this either -  I reallly really dont know what to do but , I will lose everything I have worked for since filing the restraining order on my husband if I dont get this kid out of my house

  7. ilmdamaily profile image68
    ilmdamailyposted 13 years ago

    I agree with Girly_girl - if he is 17 he is no longer "just a kid", but is in fact a man, certainly physically if not mentally or emotionally.

    I think getting a rabbit was a good step - the fact that he looks after it is a sign that he is not a bad person, but is perhaps caught up in expressing himself in the only way he was familiar with. If he had harmed the rabbit, well then it might be a different story altogether.

    Having been an "angry young man" myself, I think the best advice I could give would be to make it clear to him that you love him and that he is part of your family, but that for him to treat yourself and your other child in this way is completely unacceptable. You don't need to yell or argue with him about this - it should be done in a calm, caring and quiet manner before you are in the middle of argument about something else. A good trick when dealing with loud or verbally abusive people is to reduce the volume of your voice as they increase the volume of theirs. The more he yells, the calmer and quiter your voice should become. Generally people who yell and make a fuss tend to begin to feel quite stupid if they're throwing thier weight around and no one is responding to it - certainly they need to lower thier voice just to hear what you have to say.

    Acknowledging that he is a man now, you should seek his opinion about what it is you should do. He needs to accept that he has put you in this situation by his unacceptable behaviour, and that as his mother you are at a loss as to what to do. Ask him what you should do: the responsibility for abusive behaviour is always on the abuser, not on the receiver. Acknowledging that the responsibility for ending his abusive behaviour is on him - not on you - may hopefully cause him to realise the harmful effect his behaviour is having on your family. 

    If that fails, you may have to ask him to leave. It's ok to love your son as a mother, but perhaps you'll have to separate yourself from the man he is. I hope it does not come to that!

    Good luck - making a man out of a boy is tricky business: the only person who can do it at the end of the day is him.

    All the best!

  8. H.C Porter profile image80
    H.C Porterposted 13 years ago

    Although he is 17 years old and legally an adult, he is a child. What he has witnessed in his life has caused a warp sense and way of dealing with his frustrations and anger. (At 17 years old- I was legally an adult-but now that I look back/my emotional stability was that of a child and I did not make my decisions with adult intellect and reasoning-I made them based on my emotions at that very moment)

    Although, filing a police report is an options, I don't think that you are ready to do that- although, if you do- do it before he is 18, so it will be on his juvenile record, rather than having to answer to an abuse charge on his record when he is 30 years old.

    You said you have gotten him counseling? What kind? If it is not a counseling that is also Anger Management, I would suggest finding something that is.

    The fact that he is able to love and care for a rabbit-speaks greatly of his capacity to love. It sounds like (to me) that he is struggling to cope with his emotions, and it is coming out in the form of violence.

    If he is 17, he has access to more than you want to think. Is he abusing drugs? Drug abuse is a common way for a lot of kids to deal with what they don’t understand and to gain the ability to cope with fear, change and anger. He may know right and wrong-but he also has years of memories of how a man that he viewed at some point or another as a role model handled life’s issues. If you mix drugs into it-lines can become blurred and right and wrong has no consequence.

    I am sorry you are going through this- I know you must be worried sick, I hope you find help for your child... and keep your other child safe as well.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      he is not abusing drugs and he does have the capacity for love , he gets really good grades and is on track to enter college as a sophmore - thats what makes everything so hard - but  Its like.... I am about to not care about his future  anymore , I'm tired of the abusive crap in my house and , with all I have to do mentally , for me , well, I'm gonna lose it and I know if I go down everyone goes down , but this childs abuse will send me all the way down

      1. H.C Porter profile image80
        H.C Porterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I have one last suggestions and I am only suggesting it because it was something that scared the shit out of me when I was that age.
        Show him the consequences of his actions...
        What I am saying is (I am going to use myself as an example) put him face to face with what can happen if he continues on this path. My mother is a doctor so when she reached her limit with me when I was a teen, she showed up to my High School and had me released from class early one day. She took me to the hospital that she worked at and said I want you to meet some people you have something in common with. She introduced  me to a 16 year old girl that was on life support from a cocaine/lsd overdose. She introduced me to a 5 year old that would never walk again because that 16 year old girl lost her mind when she was high and started beating her little brother until her heart stopped. She then sat me down and told me that she loved me, and that she didnt know how to talk to me, and she wasnt sure how to keep me from becoming that 16 year old girl (who actually died 2 days later). I told her that I had never hurt anyone, and she said- I know, except for yourself. We then went to the phyc ward where I was able to see through glass windows; girls that refused to eat anything and weighed 70 pounds and swore up and down that they were fat, and the kids that had tried to take their own lives and were only successful in the sense that they would spend the rest of their life in a catatonic state, but not dead. She drove to county jail (i thought she was going to leave me there-and began to freak out, but got out of the car) inside that jail, I was able to see what 20 years of drugs had done to people, what losing tempers did to people-and what being away from society and being behind bars did to people. My mom told me at the end of that day-anyone of these people that you saw today, could be you, and it hurts me and scares me more for you than I have ever been hurt or scared for anyone in my life.
        I dont know where you live-but if there is away to show your son the truth about how his actions can effect himself and others- show him. If he has the heart that you have described, he wont forget the faces of the ones that he will meet, and they may make him think a little longer before he resorts to violence. I know it sounds kind of extreme, but some people dont begin to think about the harm they are doing until the harm is done and there is no going back. This is how my mother showed me that life doesnt always give you second chances and I better take advantage of mine. (It was the first time in  my life I began to think about life as more than here and now)
        Best of luck starme77. My thoughts are with you and your family.

        1. SummerSteward profile image59
          SummerStewardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          HC, this is a great, GREAT suggestion. I'd say try this first. Starme, I pray for you and your family!

  9. Nellieanna profile image67
    Nellieannaposted 13 years ago

    Starme - I'm thinking this kid/adult who is large enough to overcome his mother and sister, but who loves helpless animals is sick.  He' crying out for help the only way he knows - as you say, following his sick father's example.  If he dates, and I'd suppose he does, "date abuse" is a high probability too.  Whatever good intentions his therapist has, he evidentally needs more.  There really are agencies which provide such help. 

    You might try Googling  EMDR.  I know someone who has struggled for over 50 years with damage done to him as a boy, has been through countless therapies and treatments.  He's just started EMDR and is amazed that he really feels it is helping him.  He's not violent - but deeply damaged and often given to utter depression to the point he can't work.  Look into it online.  It can't hurt.  Your son is very apt to hurt himself and others very seriously if he does not get help.  And you must protect yourself and your daughter, no matter what.  This rage he has pent up WILL erupt more and more catastrophically.

    Good luck, dear.

  10. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    starme, {{hugs}} you have not had it easy, but please don't give up on your son.

    you should be tired of the abuse and refuse to allow it. what triggers it? what is making him lose control and hit you?  are you able to be in counseling together? together (in the presence of a counselor) you need to make it clear what your boundaries/consequences are and stick to them. he needs to understand what is at stake, tell him. but you must have help along the way. you can't do this alone.
    he has learned everything from his environment. the father is a powerful influence in a young man's life, good or bad. he feels a lot of things he isn't able to express, so it comes out in anger and hostility. please get help together.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You are absolutly correct - and thanks - yes, we are getting counseling together as a family and me, I'm starting on the side by myself - the counslor sees us all together at the farm with horses and really , the first visit on Saturday was really really good, the counsler even wants my mother in law there also which I think is wonderful of her since we all live together - she's smart and I believe she can help to fix this -  I do understand my son has alot he needs help with - it seems the help isnt fast enough - in the meantime he is abusive - I want to continue trying to help him - but he has to understand who is in control and take his place as the child in order for me to do that - If I can get him to do that without police and crap - then I have a better chance of getting him the help - he knows right from wrong and in order to help him he has to be able to control himself because counseling takes time and during that time I cant continue , nor my daughter , to be abused  - I dunno if I explained that exactly right , but anyhow its the point I am attempting to get across to him now

  11. Lynda Gary profile image60
    Lynda Garyposted 13 years ago

    You say that you have more counselors, etc. than you can keep track of.  Certainly their professionalism is better than the advice in an open forum with virtual strangers?

    I agree (since you solicited opinions) that your son needs psychiatric care, the kind that requires in-patient hospitalization -- at a minimum.

    I also agree that I'd call the police the next time he got violent in my household and threatened bodily harm to ANYONE.  But, at 17, he'll be treated as an adult, not a juvenile.  The only way he'd be considered a juvenile is if he is diagnosed with something like mental retardation, autism, etc.  (ADHD won't do it.)

    You have a difficult life.  You need the support of people you can trust.  But, in your situation, soliciting "advice" here just doesn't seem productive and can only cause you additional conflict and confusion because you'll get so many varied opinions from non-professionals.  Just sayin'...

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      lady, I asked you to go away a long time ago - your advice is crap o.k sorry - but it is - your too full of yourself to ever help anyone

    2. JulesGerome profile image61
      JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's not a sensible thing to do, to post personal issues on a forum. It's better to seek professional assistance. I agree with you.

      1. IzzyM profile image86
        IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Many of us know Starme from previous posts. We feel like her friends. Women especially get a great deal of support when problems are shared with friends. It matters not if they are 'experts in the field', but women are the home-makers, the children-raisers and life's experience can teach us so much more than any of those who learnt their trade from a book!
        Not to knock the men who have posted positively too...this is what friends do, help each other in times of crisis.

        1. JulesGerome profile image61
          JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I didn't know all of you are friends outside the net. I thought you were only acquainted in HP.

          1. IzzyM profile image86
            IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            LOL, we are only acquainted on the net. But we FEEL like friends smile

            1. JulesGerome profile image61
              JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Then if you feel like friends, the best thing you can do, is tell her to seek professional advice. You never know who might be posting or reading. That's called naviete, in French. Not very sensible.

              1. IzzyM profile image86
                IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Well, I don't agree with you. Do you run off and seek PROFESSIONAL advice for everything that goes wrong in your life?

                1. JulesGerome profile image61
                  JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't post my personal things on a forum.It's not sensible. I find that people here tend to be overemotional. I'm French and I'm skeptic.I don't believe everything I see written in a forum.

                  1. IzzyM profile image86
                    IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Got a point there!
                    I've seen us on this forum get into a right flummox over someone who has posted suicide notes or whatever. Guess it's human nature (not French obviously LOL) to want to help.
                    Starme is genuine. It might not be sensible to post personal stuff, but hey, if we can help, we will smile

                  2. starme77 profile image78
                    starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    posting on the internet is , well for some o.k - for others its not, there are alot of people who find dates and get married and go on and have kids and stuff - all from meeting on the internet - while I don't do those things - it works well for some people, it can be a dangerous place also - that is understood - and people should be careful - but people have sex and post it on the internet - I'm not doing that - but its done - I'm simply gettin some good support from some good people that I consider to be my friends -

            2. starme77 profile image78
              starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

              We ARE Friends smile

        2. starme77 profile image78
          starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly smile and thanks , when I looked for a counselor I had to seek out the one who had not just read about people like me and is now sitting behind a desk using a book as a guide -

  12. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    very powerful HC.

    starme, I was thinking of you out of the blue this morning and wondered how you were doing! don't stay away so long... there are people here who care about you.

    lynda, while I agree with much of what you say in your post, at the same time, starme is coming where she knows she has support, she has friends here and being an open forum, you never know who may see the thread and be able to offer professional advice, or the right words she needs to hear at this time.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks and I'm sorry to have been away for so long , I tried really hard to get back into my writing , started the hub challenge , got two done anyway before things just blew up again here at home , its really really difficult to see the abusive husband in my child, he is just a child and it hurts deeply ,  i appreciate all of my friends here and will keep in touch and thank you smile

      1. rebekahELLE profile image86
        rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I know it has to be hard to see that pattern, but you can't ignore it. help is available! from what you say, he does not sound like he wants to go under, his grades are still up and he cares for the rabbit. see the son behind the behavior, but please get help today. smile there is someone there right now waiting to help you and your son and family.
        we're here for you.

        starme, there you go. go now.

        1. starme77 profile image78
          starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I'm headed out , and thanks smile

  13. saddlerider1 profile image58
    saddlerider1posted 13 years ago

    I agree with Nellieanna and others who have posted. Do not take this for granted, do not prolong your decisions, do not allow yourself or other members of your family to be further abused. Please protect yourself now before it turns into a full blown assault that may cause serious injuries or possibly death. I was from an abused home, I lived through mental and physical abuse between the age of 10 and 17 yrs old. I knew what it did to my mind at that time and fortunately for the abuser he was not killed by me and my brother,a higher force stopped us, thank goodness,however he did get his just rewards and was killed in jail by an inmate. I caution you strongly, seek immediate assistance for your son.He needs help NOW. You don't know what is going on in his mind and if he snaps, you and your other children could be severely injured. Your 17 yr old needs immediate help, there has to be an agency that can help you, have you talked to your priest, minister or pastor? Is there a Big Brothers organization that can intervene and talk with him? You need to first and foremost protect yourself, don't wait any longer, the mind is a hair pin trigger and can be fatal when pulled in anger. I wish you safety and love from afar. Please take care of your family. Peace

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I feel the same way ,  just not sure what to do next - I'm thinking I'll run down the the psychologists office and show her these bruises and start from there -

      1. saddlerider1 profile image58
        saddlerider1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Excellent idea, we are hear to give advice, we are not counselors or doctors or maybe some are. The paramount importance here is seeking immediate help. Good luck

        1. starme77 profile image78
          starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          there is one who calls herself a counselor on here but she sucks - she tells me not to seek suport here -  but this forum and the real people I have met on here have helped me tremendously - the support is great and the support is what I need most of all - so thanks so much to all of you smile

          1. saddlerider1 profile image58
            saddlerider1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Starme no offense meant here as I feel your pain and frustration but I read Lynda Gary bio and she certainly seems like a genuine person and wanting to help
            Lynda Gary is an attorney, author, and a Life Coach who offers pro bono coaching services to families and individuals in need.  She's a regionally recognized parenting and relationship expert, a mentor of inner city youth, and shares her home and acts as "Mom" to displaced teens.  She's raised two special needs children, and mentored countless others.

            I wouldn't be so hard on her, I truly believe she is trying to give sound advice, that is unless you don't think so. Peace and I wish you well.

            1. starme77 profile image78
              starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

              well she tried to counsel me through e-mail and nothing she said made any sense to me - she threatened to put all the e-mails on a public forum when she got mad at me so, I really have no use for counselors and life coaches like that - when interviewing counselors as a good fit for my family I ran across a few like her - and - well - I didnt hire them - I have asked her several times to leave me alone and she dosnt - she may be of some help to some families somewhere but she is of no help to me -

              1. saddlerider1 profile image58
                saddlerider1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Okay understood, I just was wondering, because her bio and credentials read worthy. I of course was unaware of your previous dealings with her. I am sorry to hear they were not favorable, I  hope you find counsel you can trust and have faith in to give you sound advice and help. Good luck and all the best.

                1. Lynda Gary profile image60
                  Lynda Garyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Starme ...

                  What I said was that if you continued to say things harmful to my reputation, tell outright lies (as you are once again doing), you'd FORCE me to defend myself by posting the emails you referred to in another thread.

                  I say again:  If you tell lies about me, as you are doing, you force me to react.

                  You asked for help, I gave it, you wouldn't take it, and that was that.  I left the door open for you if you decided to ever accept the help being offered rather than simply telling me that you, "Did that already," and "That won't work," or "But I can't because..." 

                  You are the first (and likely the last) person who has ever questioned my credibility, slammed my efforts, and bad-mouthed me like this -- and all because you didn't like my FREE advice?  Go figure.

                  And though you have not previously asked me to "leave you alone," I will gladly do so.  But I will continue to defend my reputation and make sure anything you say about me is HONEST and ACCURATE.  When you bad mouth someone, you open that door, dear.

                  One final point:  I did NOT tell you to stop seeking support here.  I told you that seeking ADVICE here, when you have nearly a dozen professionals assigned to you, is not productive:

                  "You need the support of people you can trust.  But, in your situation, soliciting "advice" here just doesn't seem productive and can only cause you additional conflict and confusion... "

                  Support from people you can trust is absolutely needed.  And you CAN find that here, obviously.  Advice -- that's a different matter.  And it is still my opinion that you should seek support, not advice, from the forums ... ESPECIALLY when you allege abuse by one of your children and other such serious issues.

                  Examples of advice that needed correction, I gave in my first post. Like the age at which a child is considered an adult.  What if you called the police thinking that your son would be viewed as a juvenile, only to discover that at 17, he'll face adult charges, adult prosecution, etc?  Was that "bad" advice, Starme, to share my legal knowledge?  If you say "yes," then you'll prove a point of mine.

                  One final note:  These are open forums.  When you post public threads, you invite the public to reply.

                  1. starme77 profile image78
                    starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    If your a counselor and a life coach - in what class did you learn to be "forced to react?" In what class did you learn to threaten people who are having problems? I think you went to the wrong school really - and from your babble here may I suggest a good counselor for you because it seems you need some serious help. No counsler, life coach, psychologist goes around threataning and reacting to people in pain  - I have told you on numerous occassions to leave me alone and even turned your threatning posts into hub pages - but here I'll ask you again to leave me alone -  and as for the FREE advice goes  - Well - You get what you pay for in this world  I suppose

  14. Rafini profile image71
    Rafiniposted 13 years ago

    Okay, first off.  A rabbit?  I don't get it.  No prob, though.  To each his own, I guess.  (not an insult, I just don't get the thought)

    He's 17, 6 feet tall, and abusing you and your daughter?  Get him into Anger Management classes!  Pronto.  Before it's too late.  Check with the social workers, they can help you find the classes.

    Find a way to make sure he is aware of the fact that IF you were to call the police - due to his abuse - he's old enough to go to jail and be tried as an adult.  He needs to think about his future.  Make sure he is aware of the fact that you WILL call the police if you feel you or your daughter are in danger.

    Next, he needs counseling.  Seriously.  Make sure he knows it isn't an option.  He gets the counseling or he has to live somewhere else.  There are anti-anger medications out there, mood stabilizers.  Maybe even family counseling to deal with the abuse all of you have dealt with.

    Something I told my daughter one day when I'd had enough. 
    "This has got to stop, I cannot continue to allow you to abuse us!"  Let me tell ya, it shocked the h@!! out of her.  She straightened up as much as she could (or would - but I had trouble getting her to go to counseling)

    It's difficult, but you will have to learn Tough Love and keep in mind that once he's an adult the choices are his.  All you can do is suggest, support, and wait to see.

    Above all, use the services provided to you already through social services.

    Good luck! smile

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      he wanted a rabbit for christmas and didnt get one - Rabbits are animals and animals distribute unconditional love - they can be very theraputic haven't ya ever had an animal?

  15. IzzyM profile image86
    IzzyMposted 13 years ago


  16. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    starme knows she has friends here, that's why she posted. friends can be a powerful support and are able to listen and encourage. that's what this post is. she is also receiving counseling. she doesn't need anyone telling her life is difficult, she knows that. she needs encouragement.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you smile Well Said

  17. Mekenzie profile image79
    Mekenzieposted 13 years ago

    Starme, we've never met but we have something very much in common.  I had an out of control teen-aged boy too.  He was verbally abusive and crazy with rage and anger. 

    All I can tell you, from my experience, is that I would NOT tolerate any form of abuse in our house.  At ALL costs I gave consequences for every bad behavior.  I figured if he got away with abusing me or anyone in the family he would grow up and abuse everyone around him. 

    I felt it my job, as a mom and the one who loved him more than anyone else ever could, to make sure he NEVER got away with abuse.

    If he acted up inappropriately I would stand firm and demand he leave NOW!  Take a walk and when you can control yourself you may come back.  I can assure you that if he had touched me or one of my family members the police would have been called.  Inside .. he knew it too.  If he got a record for abuse it would be because HE is the one who did it .. not me.  You are not responsible for him hurting you .. he must be held accountable or he will continue.

    I chose Tough Love because I knew if he didn't learn to respect me or his family ... his life would be a living HELL!  I loved him too much to let that happen.  I did turn him in to the police when he did a hit and run of a brand new boat on a crazy teen-aged spree ...   I turned him in when he took his girlfriend's car in a rage .. without asking. Did I want him to have a record .. NO WAY .. But I knew he MUST have consequences .. because he would only get worse without them.  Does that make sense? 

    The difference dear mom between you and me is that I did not have an abusive husband .. but I had a husband who had no clue on how to handle it.  It was all on my shoulders and my son triggered my husband all the time ..  so I had to ask my husband to Let me deal with him.  Your poor son had such a BAD example and I know that complicates the whole situation .. but I also know that it will NOT help to excuse him or give him slack because of it.

    I have written about my experiences with my teen-aged boy and given many resources... The resources really helped give me direction and courage. If your heart receives and responds to what I have said .. look them up .. these resources were a God Send.

    My son is 34 now and he makes me proud.  He told our Church Board (who loved him and prayed for him)that he couldn't have asked for better parents.  I sobbed with relief upon hearing this.  Now I know by wht he said that he respected the fact that we gave him FIRM boundaries  ..  that we wouldn't let him abuse us in any shape or form.  It WORKED... That and lots of prayers too.  ((Smile))

    Just in case you think I'm a toughy .. no, in fact the exact opposite .. I'm a BIG softy by nature.  I LOVE my kids with a passion!  I just knew in my gut that in this case .. I HAD to be tough .. that if I went easy on him .. he'd grow up believing he could hurt people to get empowered.

    I hope this helps you in some way.  You are in a very hard spot.  I know the emtional pain .... I cried every single day to and from work for years .. only to arrive home.. pull myself together to be there for my precious girls and hubby.  I still think my health paid a price because of the high degree of stress it put on my body..  Hang tight sweet mom and believe in your son .. I never stopped believing his heart was good... and today I KNOW it is.

    Love and HUGS to you.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      oh wow, thanks for sharing - it gives me hope that things can be o.k in the future - this is a life phase and it too shall pass smile Thanks a ton

  18. starme77 profile image78
    starme77posted 13 years ago

    I went to the counsler to ask her what to do - she gave me a couple of ideas and one was to call the cops and file a report I really dont want to call the cops on a straight A junior in high school - so, here is what I decided to do - we made a list of rules he must follow and respect he must give - we made the list together - my son and I - I had him come up with some rules also - I had him write them 10 times - and I hung one on the wall - now, this is it, last chance , if this kind of thing happens again he will go to jail and he understands that - he's calmed down now so, we'll see if this works or not

    1. Mekenzie profile image79
      Mekenzieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Good for you starme .. GREAT PLAN!

  19. tantrum profile image61
    tantrumposted 13 years ago

    Wow !!!!

  20. Pandoras Box profile image60
    Pandoras Boxposted 13 years ago

    starme, It seems that it's been a tough road for you, at least lately, and great kudos to you for maintaining your sanity and finding your way through it all so far.

    It sounds like you're doing a good job, but like most of us, it can get you down and confused and unsure. Even raising kids without the challenges you and your's faced is tough.

    I'ma just gonna share a few thoughts. If they don't apply, toss them. I'm not a professional, just a mother myself, who comes from an abusive and dysfunctional background.

    Your son -or your stepson as the case may be- has also been through alot, as I'm sure you don't need me to tell you. Lest you think I'm going the wrong way with this, I honestly think your first priority is to protect both of your children. If you have to remove the son from the household to protect your daughter, then that is a decision that only you who is there can really know how to make.

    Of course, you have to weigh it both ways. If your son is harmed by his removal moreso than your daughter is by his presence, well.. you get where I'm going with that.

    Though I am not suggesting this of you, there are several types and degrees of abuse. None are healthy, or right. All I'm really trying to get at is that I fully understand and agree with your hesitation to call teh cops on your son.

    At the same time, you are there, you see exactly what is happening, and you have to judge if/when he's becoming capable of really taking it all too far, and just how exactly is all this affecting your daughter.

    And yourself. You're trying to build a new life for yourself it sounds like, and that can be darned difficult when the people around you keep dragging you back into the old.

    You've finished with it, and are ready to put it away. Such a decision on your part was probably a long time coming, and you're prepared to accept it all for what it is. Or was.

    Your son, however, and your daughter, probably aren't. This man was their father, whatever else he may have been.

    Your children have both lost much, and as children we don't always understand and/or know how to deal with it. You know all this, you just are lost as to what to do to fix it all.

    Me, too! All the time! My children drive me friggin' nuts! And they keep growing and changing and they get all moody and each one has some sort of hang-up that I find it difficult to relate to and fully understand.

    Although my situation is not comparable to your's, I just want you to know that even in the best of situations if we are honest with ourselves as parents we have to know that we're all really just winging it, lol.

    I only read the first page of posts, but I wanna comment on some of what I read. Someone said to discuss it all with your son, which I am sure you do, but I think that's very important. You don't want to harp on him daily about it, it shouldn't come to that, but a serious sit-down, calmly spoken discussion about what is happening to him is in order. With you. Not with a counselor or social worker, etc.

    He needs to know it's not just about you and your daughter, not just about him behaving as his father did, it's about his future, his future girlfriends, his future wife and his future children as well. The focus of your concern in discussion with him should be all about him, his future, and his sister.

    If he's really abusing his younger sister, and yet does have a decent throbbing heart, this should move him. His own future and future loved ones should move him. If it is in any way about you, maybe it won't move him.

    Maybe he is angry with you. It sucks, but it's perfectly normal. Kids always blame their parents for everything that goes wrong in their lives.

    I love animals, I really do, almost as much as I love children, and I love them much more than I love grown-ups, but I love them too. If putting a rabbit at risk might save my son's life, I'd give him a whole litter if necessary. At least till the first one was harmed. The rabbit is totally not among your top concerns right now, and I totally understand that.

    If this is a fairly new development in your son, then I think it indicates anger problems brought on by your family problems, and the natural pressures of being a 17 year old male in today's society.

    It's so normal for kids that age to have alot of thoughts, alot of questions, alot of arrogance, and very little understanding of reality! His is compounded by what all he has been through.

    I think you're on the right track. It's a tough damn row to hoe, but you'll get through it, and he probably will too as long as he knows he has your love.

    Oh, I also liked someone's idea to show him his potentially future victims. Again, it's all about him. You can't say stuff like 'how can you do this to me' -confounding as it must be for a mother- because in his mind he'll probably just be thinking 'look what you've done to me!' Which may not be fair, but is typical of teenagers.

    The focus needs to be 'look what you're doing to yourself, how can I help you to avert this disaster.'

    I'm not really advising you, I know you know all this, I'm just agreeing with you.

    He is at that difficult stage for both of you between being a child and a man. You can't treat him like a child, but you can't expect him to just be a man either. You can only help him to learn how to be a man, and based on the little I read of your situation, he's going to need alot of help with that.

    It sounds like you've gotten him the help he needs, and that is great, really, but he needs it from you as well, which you probably know and are probably providing.

    There's been alot of change in this child's life, as well as a divorce -an abandonment of love. At the same time his own future will be calling him away soon, and you're working on your own life -which you should. But from his point of view, things are spiraling out of his control, and with his father as his example, he doesn't know how to deal with it all.

    So he needs two things. He needs to learn how to function as a responsible adult -always a scary prospect, even for me and probably you. This we can hope he is getting partially from the counselling, and hopefully partially from your example. But unless you are actively discussing these things with him, he may miss the point or give it up.

    The second thing he needs is reassurance of your constant and undiminishing love for him. At the same time, he needs your confidence in him.

    If we harp too much on our childen's flaws, it can overwhelm them. People will often become whatever they are expected to become.

    This is your son's one biggest chance in life. These years can make or break a person, often forever. Make sure he knows that, but not in a way that ties him personally into a hopeless track.

    One last thing I'd like to say, is that by his age his world view may differ from your's. If you come at him with it he may feel it's pointless trying to talk with you. When you communicate with him, especially about these serious issues involving his future, let him do most of the talking. To get him started, you'll have to start it, but do so in a neutral way which lets him know that your intention isn't to tell him what he needs to do, or what he should do, or what is right and wrong.

    Your intention in talking to him is to put the problem -his problem- on the table and have a look at it and work together to figure out how to solve it. This too may exasperate him, but it won't anger him and it won't close the doors of real communication between you forever.

    He may not be ready to really talk about it with you at the very moment you are. SO then you go on letting him know that you're there for him whenever he is ready and give him the space he needs to digest everything that's happening to him and sort it all out in his mind.

    He may never choose to really openly discuss it with you, but he'll be comforted by knowing you're there for him, and that alone can dissipate alot of anger. Be sure you're prepared to back it up though. Whenever he is ready to turn to you, drop EVERYTHING ELSE and be there, because as I said, this may be his one and only chance.

    There's a whole 2 other subjects here going on which I haven't addressed and those are you and your daughter. They are very valid subjects, but I'll suffice it to say that you alone will have to make the decision if and when it gets down to it about if and when you should remove him from the home, and how.

    We're all just doing the best that we can, the best that we know how to do. Your son as well.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Wow - Totally Awesome advice and very well written - Thanks I agree with your thoughts - you sound to be a very good mother yourself smile Cheers smile and thanks for the support and time you poured into what you said - its very obvious you have a great heart smile

  21. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    starme, I really hope everything works out for you and your son.
    sending you best wishes. be strong and keep getting the help you need. smile

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      smile smile

  22. Wayne Orvisburg profile image62
    Wayne Orvisburgposted 13 years ago

    No one will liek this answer, but... He's old enough that he can join the Corps. You just have to give your consent. Maybe have him talk to a recruiter. They'll straighten his ass out.

    1. starme77 profile image78
      starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well , it made me laugh , laughing is good for the soul and I don't get many good laughs these days -  so it helped a ton really smile Thanks

    2. Pandoras Box profile image60
      Pandoras Boxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No I don't like that answer, you're right. Offered as a suggestion, okay, but not as a solution. The military isn't for everyone, and often it takes disturbed people to even greater depths of disturbance. Sure it's great for the army to have a bunch of angry young men to send off wherever they want them, but generally doesn't end up well for the disturbed individual.

      Learning to function in the military isn't learning to function in real life, and it does nothing to help the kid sort through his relationship problems, which will still be there if and when he comes home.

      1. luvpassion profile image63
        luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I disagree with one point...learning to function in the military isnt learning to function in real life...the military teaches many things that can be used in civilian life.

  23. starme77 profile image78
    starme77posted 13 years ago

    well, the military has caused alot of problems for people I know that were exposed to chemicals and such and others who ended up with lukemia as a result of exposure, heart failure , and all kinds of mental problems , so no, I dont believe the military would be a good fit for my son - but it was funny smile

    1. luvpassion profile image63
      luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So has lead paint...Asbestos exposure...phin phin and thousands of other civilian jobs.

      1. starme77 profile image78
        starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        well ya got a point  there but , its a choice to work in those things, when you sign yourself over to the government and become their property you no longer get to choose what you may become exposed to

        1. luvpassion profile image63
          luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Same goes for having children...which leads back to your original problem.

          Good luck with that.

          1. starme77 profile image78
            starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            can you elaborate on that comment a bit cause I dont quite get your point

          2. tantrum profile image61
            tantrumposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I don't know who you are, but I will take the risk and follow you ! LOL

        2. Buck Steiner profile image57
          Buck Steinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          If he has a hard time controlling his anger the military is not for him, those DI's don't mind kicking the crap out of people that bow up to them.

          They don't mind at all!

          1. starme77 profile image78
            starme77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            smile your right

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