We have all heard of attachment parenting and co-sleeping etc. But is it too much to be breast feeding your almost 4 year old son??? In my former profession as an RECE I have met many women who have done this and I have seen the results of this process, not always so positive especially in later life. Centuries ago breast feeding until the age of 5 was required to keep the child alive now it is done to to satisfy a mother's need to be close to her usually male child. Would you do this, if so why or why not and what are your feeling and thoughts about this type of behaviour???
And how is it that you know it is the mother who won't let go and that it is her need to be close to her child that makes weaning difficult? I have met mothers who said some of their children were unusually resistant to weaning, despite the mothers' best efforts.
I myself nursed all of my children, certainly longer than you claim is advisable, and they have all excelled in many ways as adults - i.e., "in later life."
I nursed both my children. They were switched to cups as soon as they learned to bite down with teeth.(Don't laugh) (approximately 9 months) They were both walking before a year old and had several teeth. Those facts determined where I drew the "line".
My overall opinion? eeehhh......I just don't think it's a necessity these days to breastfeed in this society for that long. *shrug*
While there may be some room for different ways/times for a mother to decide what's appropriate personally when breast-feeding her child, there's no question at all that TIME magazine was wrong in putting that pic on their cover. I'd say they can probably be prosecuted for child porn, actually, if anyone wanted to try it, because the pic can be perceived as inappropriate at the least and vulgar/pornographic at the worst. It actually is disgusting that they'd take the very-natural and wonderful subject of breastfeeding and sully the discussion and image of it like that.
It's only porn if you view breasts as sex objects. What you feel is sexual is YOUR issue. Some people think feet are sex objects... so no bare feet either or it's porn?
Are you entirely without the ability to even understand anything?
I could ask you the same thing. Child nursing does not equal pornography except for those who get off on that sort of thing. One of my favorite pictures of me and Lily is one of her nursing... It hangs prominantly in my home. I suppose THATS pornographic?
That's your business. I have a similar one of my own when I breastfed my child too. It's in a family album where my Mom had put it. She thought it was a beautiful natural pic of motherly love and care. I agree. And although I wouldn't display it on my wall, etc., no it isn't pornographic, especially since the child was actually a baby, not a walkin' talkin' toddler. I can't say whether your pic is pornographic or not, nor whether the location of where it's displayed makes it pornographic or not, since that's your business, not mine.
What I can say, and did say, is that the TIME magazine picture can be considered pornographic. Do you understand now? Or are you personal-defense mode as usual, still?
Geez...look who I'm askin'! lol
Not in personal defense... I rarely feel the need to defend myself because to be offended I would actually have to value someone else's opinion. I'm defending breast feeding though... only because someone might be reading this might actually be influenced by the nonsense that is coming out of some of the keyboards.
The picture could be seen as pornographic? Only to a those who have limited views and limited understanding. But, it wouldn't be a surprise.
Melissa, brilliant response. Enough said.
The more I look at this picture, the more it starts to look kinda cute. Assuming that's really a mother and child, of course. The best and highest use of a woman's breasts is to produce milk. Otherwise, they are just decoration. They don't serve any other function. Well, other than their use to enslave, tantalize and dominate men. Well, okay, I guess breasts do more than produce milk, but still.... You know how we humans are classified as mammals? That's 'cause humans breast feel. Mammals--> Mammary glands. Let's embrace our mammalianism! Go....BREASTS!
This one goes out to all of you who think your breast milk was the key to your child's to success..
Many of you are claiming that breast feeding your children has made them these brilliant and well off individuals. People please...adoptive children are not breast fed and many of these people run multi million dollar corporations. There are breast fed children that have grown up and are drug addicts living in the street or on welfare. GET A GRIP OF YOURSELVES!!! It is not breast milk that makes the human being what we are or are not. What about back in the 60's when breast feeding was not pushed on the mother how many people were giant successes in that time frame. Honestly!!! You all think it is fine to attack and be so defensive when no one is attacking anyone I have my opinion and I am allowed through freedom of speech to voice it. Why do you miss the point of this forum??? What do you think about this picture and the article??? Has anyone bothered to read it yet???
To those of you who have been respectfull and have contributed to this forum with informed voices...
Thank you and Happy Mother's Day!!!
It seems wrong to me. A three year old child should not be breastfeeding. This was just a case of a woman who was looking for publicity and a magazine that was only too happy to do anything to increase circulation.
Janesix must respectfully disagree with you on this. True, nothings more natural than a mother breast-feeding but three years is too old for it in this day and age unless there are unusual circumstances for it. That picture is purposely provocative to sell magazines. And as long as a mother shows respect for others in public when nursing all well and good.
We know that in parts of the world it is okay as nutrition is a large concern. But here in the Western World this is not a requirment of life to survive. So what makes it okay to continue this behaviour beyond 6 months - 1 year of life. Do you know that children start to ask for it and that weaning is very difficult once this process goes beyond 1 year of age???
Alaster a big hello to you!!!
I agree with you that breast feeding is very natural and that 3 is far too old to be breast fed. Yes, the picture is staged well. And of course if a mother shows respect in public while nursing all is well and good but a 3 year old almost 4 year child nursing in public, really??? I would deem it as the mother missing the repect button on that one big time!!!
Hi there Shawn May. Yes, any mother breast-feeding a four or five year old in public is definitely missing more than a few buttons.
"So what makes it okay to continue this behaviour beyond 6 months - 1 year of life."
The WHO recommends breastfeeding for two years or more worldwide.
"Do you know that children start to ask for it and that weaning is very difficult once this process goes beyond 1 year of age???"
I breastfed my daughter for almost two years and didn't have any trouble weaning her at all. She asked for boob for a few days, but soon gave up. Within a month she didn't even seem to remember that she'd been breastfed at all.
"And of course if a mother shows respect in public while nursing all is well and good but a 3 year old almost 4 year child nursing in public, really??? I would deem it as the mother missing the repect button on that one big time!!!"
By the time a child is three or four, it's rare for it to nurse more than once or twice a day anyway, so even if a child is still nursing at that point, it's pretty unlikely that it will happen in public. Even if it does, what business is it of yours to judge as long as the mother and child are reasonably discreet?
The WHO recomends breast feeding worldwide for 2 years. That means an average for people that live in situations where nutrion is poor and infant mortality is high should breast feed longer to ensure the child survives. Please understand blanket percautions.
Obviously you do not repect your own body as you call your breast a boob which usually atests to a mental capacicity. A breast is a breast not a boob please.
If you breast fed your daughter until she was 2 then you either live in a place where you and your child were or are at risk of not getting proper nutrition or your choice to not let go was the issue. Most children at 2 do not have short term memory retention for some learned items in life, but it has been proven that long term memories from this age can affect life at later stages. Look at the Mustard Report and development milestones. So it is possible for this attachment parenting to affect a child on the social/emotional level.
Finally no matter how many times a day and older child breast feeds is not the issue, the issue is that it is taking place at all no matter where no matter what. As for your accusation of my judging someone go back and read my original statement and replies. To accuse me of judgment places judgment in your court for judging me. You have no idea what I have seen in my life or on this topic to point fingers.
In places where breastfeeding remains an important source of nutrition or birth control, breastfeeding for five years isn't at all unusual, so the WHO's "blanket precaution" is the "or more," not the two years. If you were feeding your baby formula, you wouldn't stop at six months, so why should you stop breastfeeding at that time?
"Obviously you do not repect your own body as you call your breast a boob which usually atests to a mental capacicity. A breast is a breast not a boob please."
I have high respect for my own body, thanks. If you had bothered to breastfeed beyond babyhood, you might know that toddlers don't generally pronounce "breast" very well, so when you're teaching your kid to use her words to ask for what she wants, you usually have to start with something a little easier. I preferred boobs to ta-tas and most of the other silly baby names for them, so that's what we used.
"Most children at 2 do not have short term memory retention for some learned items in life, but it has been proven that long term memories from this age can affect life at later stages. Look at the Mustard Report and development milestones. So it is possible for this attachment parenting to affect a child on the social/emotional level."
That's ridiculous. People have been breastfeeding their kids into toddlerhood for thousands of years (millions, technically - chimps and bonobos wean around 4-6 years, so it's safe to assume our common ancestors did, too) - are you suggesting that every single generation of humanity until the last 50 or 100 years had social/emotional problems because of extended breastfeeding?
"As for your accusation of my judging someone go back and read my original statement and replies. To accuse me of judgment places judgment in your court for judging me."
Riiight. "I would deem it as the mother missing the repect button on that one big time!!!" sounds pretty judgmental to me. I ask again, who are you to judge whether I do or do not have a"repect" button?
What are your qualifications to say what you are saying??? Back it up with a degree. I can. As for the resect button...get a grip no one wants to see this taking place in public and if you do or someone else does they are creeps in my books!!!
Can I just ask what exactly do you mean when you keep saying "the mother show's respect"?!!! How can a mother sat feeding her baby in the way nature intended be in anyway disrespectful?
Yeah - just to sell mags because her breasts wouldn't look like two raisins on a ironing board if she was actually breastfeeding.
How about this: "Ezzat Attiya had issued a fatwa, or religious edict, saying adult men could breast-feed from female work colleagues as a way to avoid breaking Islamic rules that forbid men and women from being alone together." - http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla … breas.html
That woman looks as if she is going to cry and the woman beside her as if she is offended. This is not a natural act at this stage of life and we know that there are extremists in all cultures. Back on topic though would breast feeding until the age of 5 produce this type of desire in a child later in life??? Does anyone know of any studies done around this behaviour???
Agree with you, what's the big deal? It's not what I would do, but it's not wrong, just a little odd.
Traditionally black folks tend to breast feed for a long time. When I was girl I remember children over three years old still breast feeding and it was not unusual. Perhaps today this is unheard of. My three sons were given the breast for 9 months.
To continue breastfeeding beyond the needed time,say 2 years of age, is wrong and unnecessary. This is strictly for her own ego or some other condition...
I have often wondered what "they" would call a condition that serves such a need in a mother. If a mother injures her child to receive attention it is called Munchhousen By Proxy (spelling???sorry). I agree that in this day and age and with the nutrition avaiable to us that this act is unnecessary beyond 1 year.
OK. I wouldn't normally bother with this crap but...
A mother is entitled to breast feed as long and whenever, however she chooses to do so. It's a nature thing. If it feels right, and only the mother can judge, then just do it.
Unfortunately we live in a world where it is OK to sell soft porn through everyday advertising of products we don't need made by slave labor in thrid world countries, and it is OK to claim some sort of religious backing in order to then bomb those third world countries, and humans have completely lost touch with the fact they are just animals... and so on.
There are more important things to worry about. I'd be more upset to see a starving or abused child.
True enough about starving and abused children I would be more upset about that too and have been in the past and stand behind several organizations to stop starvation in our richest nations. But this type of behaviour could be viewed by some as abuse. Emotional abuse. The child would not know any different until they were older and talking with friends or just other people that this behaviour from his/her mother was not socially accepted in all circles. What social/emotional issues may be created that reverberate later in life because a mother cannot let go of this act of "kindness"???
Hi Shawn. I guess you're a man? Me too. Therefore we cannot judge. Breasts to us are different and sexualised. That's what society prefers these days.
Women have different views too. Like any aspect of child rearing there are a hundred saying one thing, and a hundred saying the other. The poor mother does what feels right for her and her child - and hopefully she is allowed to make that very personal decision.
The magazine picture is just a typical attempt to shock about what should be a more informed and gentle debate on the merits or otherwise.
Regardless of what anyone says, or how much of a moral majority they are - I believe that parenting is about the one thing society leaves us as parents to decide.
No - it doesn't. There are numerous laws in place to prevent physical and mental abuse, plus educational requirements and all sorts of other things.
Thanks goodness no normal people would consider breast feeding a child of this age. Certainly the few women I have known that did this were mentally deranged and extremely needy. When the teeth start coming through, breast feeding time is over - except for the Mother's needs.
It's Dr. Spock!
edit: What I mean is.. there sure are a lot of child rearing experts on HP forums.
Thanks for the reminder that it is a waste of breath.
My kids started getting teeth at 5 months, which isn't an appropriate time to wean regardless of whether you're breastfeeding or formula feeding.
The very earliest I've seen recommended for weaning formula fed babies is 9 months, and that's assuming you can switch to whole cow's milk. You'll kindly excuse me if I agree with Melissa that it's ludicrous to think that giving a human baby milk designed to raise a healthy baby cow is somehow more "normal" than giving a human baby milk designed to raise a healthy baby human...
Sorry Mark I am a woman. Yes, breasts have been sexualized and I agree that society perfers it that way. And of course there are always people standing on both sides of the parenting river telling mothers especially new ones what is best for them and their child. Your right it makes the mothers feel lost and confused and sometimes very alone especially when she truly needs help. I agree that this topic is a very personal decsion and should be based on the individual needs of the child and the mother, but she should also be able to make an informed decision.
Of couse the picture is to sell magazines we all know that and the shock factor is high when breaast feeding is protrayed as it is in the photo. I am with you about the gentle factor and the fact that this debat as it stands worldwide should be discussed for its merits and otherwise.
So, what is it that you're trying to imply? Did you breastfeed your child? Do you know the circumstances of why people choose to breastfeed beyond 1 or 2 years? Is it really any of your or anyone's business? To accuse someone of having a need to not let go or live in a place with limits to proper nutrition is quite judgmental, IMO. I breast fed both of my sons. The first one stopped sometime in the second year, closer to his 3rd birthday. It was my choice because I wanted to give him the very best nutrition possible. He excelled all throughout his school career, graduated with high honors from college and has a 6 figure income before the age of 30, and is an adoring husband and father to his wife and baby girl.
As far as the Time magazine cover, nothing but marketing. As has been said, it's a mother's choice.
I know many mothers that were unable or choose to breast feed or not to breast feed their child/children, adoptive parents especially. So what are you implying that because you did this your son is better than some other child that was raised on formula. I do not think so, that statement does not make fair sense. Remember people think they know everything about their children. This is not always true, children often hide embarassment from their parents especially when that emotion was caused by the parent. Now I'm not saying that your son is not "perfect" as you claim due to your continued breast feeding, but our children do not tell us everything. Just out of curiosity how is your other son doing in his life I noticed you did not mention anything about his accomplishments???
Hang on, SMS! You are the one who made a blanket statement about mothers who breastfeed longer than you think is advisable. RE gave an example that contradicted your flat assertion. She did not make any sort of all-encompassing claim, as you did. Don't put words into her mouth.
First of all my name is not SMS it is Shawn May and the way you have addressed me is offensive to me as you took the time to spell out RebekahELLE.
Secondly I did not put words in any mouths I asked a question. As for a flat assertion, no I am always seeing that there are good reasons for what parent do or do not do. I am fully aware that there are 2 sides to every coin. But this article is based on a mother's choice not a need of the child. It also appears to be a need of the mother and not always a benefical one to the child. We base our parenting on the needs of the child not the needs of the adult.
When children become able to eat table food their bodies are able to process that food and the need for breast feeding is over (unless the child has a medical condition requiring more digestable food sources). This act now becomes a need of the mother not of the child in a physiolgical way. So stateing that one child is better off over another because that said child was breast fed well into the toddler years is of no sense. This is not a blaket statement.
As for me advising on how long to breast feed, I have not once in this forum advised anyone on breast feeding choices. I have however stated that beyond 1 year it is not a dietary requirment if the child is eating table food normally.
No offense intended, just frequently-used forum abbreviations. I have now revised my reference to RE.
"Now I'm not saying that your son is not 'perfect' as you claim"
You say that RE "claims" that her son is "perfect." She did not claim that at all - not even remotely. Therefore, you were putting words into her mouth.
"I agree that in this day and age and with the nutrition avaiable to us that this act is unnecessary beyond 1 year."
While some of your statements actually are more tempered than I first read them to be, this one definitely does sound like a blanket assertion. Perhaps the problem is in your use of the word "unnecessary." Your later posts seem to indicate that you meant "physiologically unnecessary"; but of course, physical needs are not the only needs of the child that the parents seek to address in various ways.
See my previous statement about the child's needs.
Who has made any such statement in this thread? Please quote.
I have searched the thread, and I have not seen such a claim (about it not being a dietary requirement) prior to this post. If you have made that statement, please point me to what I have overlooked or misunderstood. [Edit: I also did not claim that you had advised anyone on how long to breast feed. I believe you misread what I stated.]
I am sorry I have know idea what you are talking about I did not say I have a son.
With respect to your claim that I put words in her mouth, when some one is arrogant enough to brag like that most have a superiority complex (at least for the moment they are bragging) and believe there is perfection in what they are discussing. Notice I put "perfect" in quotation marks.
You seem to read in a defensive manner instead of seeing this as coming from a person of strength and from someone who has been in the business of raising other peoples children for more than 30+ years. What I say is not coming from a place of anger or stupidity it is from a place of knowledge and experiance.
The excert below is copied and pasted from your first post.
"You are the one who made a blanket statement about mothers who breastfeed longer than you think is advisable."
I did not make this claim in this or any other thread. Nor did I claim I mentioned anything about diet before I replied to your first comment. Obviously something needed to be clarified when it comes to dietary needs because it is not a requirment it now becomes a need for the mother to contiune to breast feed not managing then needs of the child but fulfilling the needs of the adult.
How cool is this? You and I have much more in common than I would ever have thought! Much more in common than the fact that we are both women.
(1) We have both raised children for 30+ years; you have raised other people's and I have raised my own. And I have worked frequently with other people's children in various ways during those 30+ years -- as a classroom teacher, as a private music teacher and private tutor, as a volunteer worker with children's groups (of various ages) for church and school activities, as a Mother's Day Out worker.
(2) You wrote the following to me, and it is almost exactly what I was thinking about you!: "You seem to read in a defensive manner instead of seeing this as coming from a person of strength and from someone who has been in the business of raising other peoples children for more than 30+ years. What I say is not coming from a place of anger or stupidity it is from a place of knowledge and experiance." Except I would not have said that I had been in the business of raising other people's kids, and I would have used different spelling and punctuation.
(3) You made an assumption about RE's statement which I challenged, just as you are challenging what you believe to be an assumption I am making about what you wrote. You assumed she was being arrogant and was claiming that one of her sons was perfect; I assumed that you thought breastfeeding past age 1 was not advisable. You are convinced there are valid reasons for your assumption, just as I am convinced there are valid reasons for mine.
(4) You cut and pasted something I wrote, just as I had cut and pasted something you wrote: your response to RE, as an example of what appeared to me to be putting words into her mouth. But I made the mistake of believing you would recognize your own words, so I did not point out that they were your words, cut and pasted.
Amazing, isn't it? We can have a lot in common, but still disagree about your belief that nursing past the child's first birthday is only for the mother's benefit. I know that we will never agree on that point, so I'll say goodbye. Interesting thread.
I don't have to respond, but I will, once. Both of my sons are self-taught musicians. The younger has composed a film score, a couple of documentaries, and is currently working on another movie. He also works full time in a hospital operating room and has received regional recognition for running a very successful pilot program. He did not nurse as long, my choice. But he nursed longer than a year. He does very well as a young adult and neither of them have issues about nursing. I'm sure they would get a few chuckles from this thread.
Nowhere in my post did I say my oldest is perfect, nor that breastfeeding alone caused him to excel. I was simply making a point in reference to your implication. I chose breastfeeding first and foremost because that's why I have breasts. They produce milk to feed and nurture our young. I wanted my babies to have the best nutrition and the bonding experience that comes with nursing. Infant formula never touched their lips. Those were all personal choices made by my husband and myself. They were based on education and research. I think our sons had a very healthy start to their lives. If you've read my profile, you'll see I do have a degree in early childhood education. I have studied and read a lot of research regarding the first years of life and how vital nutrition plays a part in our babies well being and their brain development.
Sippy cups should only be used for a very short time. They affect children's speech and often cause speech impediments. It's better to learn how to drink from a regular child's cup when the child is ready.
You are lucky to have a great success story. But what about the sons and daughters that were breast fed and are in jail, drug addicts failures at life. Please realize that because a child is breast fed does not guaruntee success in life and when the feeding goes on too long it can be damaging to the child in later life and life failure can be the result. See my point???
This particular statement is irrelevant to the entire conversation, regardless of whether or not someone else brought it up. You should have realized it didn't matter, but breastfeeding actually has nothing to do with the things you mentioned in this statement and anyone attempting to make a connection between the two is absurd.
Yeah, I can see you DO NOT have a point. The fact that more people want to yet again tell a woman what to do with her body is again absurd.
It's best to educate people with the knowledge they need so as to not be harmful to their child's growth potential. And, breastfeeding is a natural occurrence. If it happens to go on for too long? Then I would say that there would be problems, but I would not go as far as to say or imply a connection to a child's adulthood would be affected/effected by such action.
And no I didn't read the article in Time magazine, but I have known plenty of mothers to breastfeed their children between 1 year to 3 or 4 years old. And their children were pretty much normal, as much as anyone else is.
Of course, I realize that. But what connection is there between breastfeeding and ending up in jail or a drug addict? There is no research to back up such an assertion.
Did you read the link from Dr. Sears discussing the benefits of extended breastfeeding for both the child and mother?
I also don't believe that because someone ends up in jail or succumbs to drug addiction that they are a failure. It is the human condition to make mistakes.
Failure implies there is no hope.
But,yes, some peoples lives do end up a failure, and numerous contributing factors make it so. And yet, failure is a relative term according to how someone defines success.
Oh please, all mammals eventually wean their young, usually around the time they start getting teeth. I would use the emergence of teeth as a guide when to stop breastfeeding. Certainly a three year old child is capable of chewing solid food.
I remember a news where a shopper at Target store was shoved away because she is breastfeeding inside the store. When you are outside the home, respect others and act accordingly. The people at the store should also acknowledge where you are coming from and have a designated area for that activity.
Others should also respect you and not try to belittle you or looked down upon what you are doing just because you are breastfeeding a toddler! You can do whatever you want to do. Just be sensitive to others and follow the rules if it is allowed or not.
When I was in college, as a part of curriculum in Anthropology class, we go to a certain place just to observe the culture there. The women don't wear bras - topless and just go to river to wash clothes and have a sling for their babies and just breastfed them anywhere. They also brought their older toddler children and they all took a bath and when the older kids are hungry they just approached their moms and they were breastfed. It is their culture and how they do things!!
Thinking about it now, I don't know if it is even right to observe them or ethical for that matter making them as subject of studies.
Ok I have consulted with an expert in the field of human anthropology.
Women have two breasts, same as apes. These are not in case of twins - they are so an infant and an older child can be fed at the same time.
These children have two sets of teeth - MILK teeth (bit of a clue) and the adult teeth.
I suspect that any comments about shouldn't do this and shouldn't do that should be added to the rest of the usual incoherent bigoted forum argument pile.
Now if someone wants to go and study this behaviour in humans and animals across the world and come back with the definitive statement... oh but wait. There isn't one.
There are social norms, behaviours, fears that are drilled into our tiny minds and form the basis of our short pathetic lives arguing about.. for example.. whether it is OK to vote republican or liberal, or to believe or not believe in Christ.
This is why I try not to go into the forums.
They are great if you want to espouse a narrow minded one person view of the world on any subject, much less so if you want to suggest that TOLERANCE and INDIVIDUALITY are of importance.
What a near coincidence. I consulted with an expert in the field of pediatrics this afternoon. It's my opinion they have something to add to this discussion. They said when the baby is old enough to start on the sippy cup it's time to pump the breast milk and start weaning from the breast.
By the time they're a year old the mother needs to stop breast-feeding at bedtime. They said the reason for this is because the child needed to start declaring their independence.
Also asked if there were any problems that could result psychologically to a child by being breast-feed past three years. They said it "could" hinder their level of maturity as they grow which could cause them to be dependent on their mother for too long.
And they said there "could" be problems of a psychological nature in adulthood for some individuals. We didn't go into details on what the "possible" adult problems might be.
This person is an open-minded, tolerant, and very individualistic professional.
Mark Ewbie, I respect your opinion on this and am in concord with you on many points of view that you have on many subjects, just not on this one.
I hear what you are saying and have gone way past my pay grade on this one.
Brilliant!!!! This is excactly what we have been saying this whole forum. Now we have our medical back up.
Aw, don't go away, Mark. I like reading you here. I think it's great you guys can disagree and add information and not end up calling each other names and getting all pissy. Are you sure you belong on the Internet? Your info was real interesting. The thing about women having two breasts so they can feed one older and one younger child makes sense...although it could be also be a redundancy thing or a bilateral symmetry thing. Thanks for the mental image of a single breasted woman, though. Anyway, I've thought about this issue carefully and decided that I don't give a shit. However, I am please to have read your opinions and by your leave, I'll be following you both:)
Sorry, that wasn't clear. I meant to address both Mark and Alastar. Both gentlemen, both scholars.
It is a pleasing rarity to be able to disagree and respect people's right to do so - that's when forums become a place to discuss rather than flame or argue. Of course it's a bit boring as well because most people prefer a good public row.
I just realised I was arguing about something I can't honestly take an informed view on. I have never breastfed a child. Therefore I don't know how it feels or what it means to the mother / child bond.
The only last thing I will say is that mothers are bombarded with views - from their parents, their friends, society - about how to bring up baby. It is possible to end up feeling they don't have a clue, they are doing it wrong.
So my personal view is that what feels right for that process IS right. Let the mother decide.
As for magazines with provocative covers to sell their stories - well, that's all part of the game. Next week will be a shocking expose of what's really in manufactured baby milk - just to add to the confusion.
Excellent input, Arlene, and there's the answer, right there. Just a matter of a little lateral tinking: If the kid's old enough to say "Happy Mother's Day", he/she's too old to be suckling Mommy's breasts. Too easy.
Of course, there's gotta be an exception. If Daddy wants to go for a little dual action (ie; speaking with his mouth full), on Mom's day, well that's a whole nuther thang. And, it's not anybody else's business but theirs.
Just like this whole debate.
I recently met a nurse that breastfed her son till he was 3. She told me her son has never been sick. I think a mother has a rught to decide how she wants to feed her child, what right do we have to judge?
the kid's probably thinking..
"I don't know who this chic is, but I am so glad it's take your kids to work day'
his friends are all saying..
"Mom and Dad, can I go over and play then stay for dinner at Johnny's house tonight?!"
1. My children started getting their teeth at around 5 months.
2. One year is the MINIMUM age that children's digestive tract can handle cows milk. Many have constipation/diarrhea issues even when exposed to cow's milk then.
3. Number 2- Number 1 means that there are 7 months when according to the opinions in this thread my child would get no milk at all.
4. I think it strange that some people are completely okay with a child drinking milk that comes out of a cow's breasts at a year but are offended with human milk for some reason.
5. They are my breasts and my children. I will nurse wherever I see fit and I will wean whenever I see fit.
6. If you choose to be such a sexual deviant that you get something perverse out of me using my breasts for their actual purpose then that is your problem... not mine.
About 20 years ago, I was at a family reunion for my (now ex) husband's family. My oldest daughter was 5 or 6 at the time, and she was running around playing with her cousin, Mary, who was the same age.
I remember sitting on a blanket on the grass with Mary's mom, and the two girls came running over to us. My daughter sat on my lap. Mary went to her mom, grabbed her boob right out of her shirt and started breastfeeding.
I agree with you on the cow's milk thing, but is there any reason at all why older kids can't drink breast milk from a cup or something when they're out in public? That display freaked me out and confused the heck out of my daughter.
Well... that would be raising my children different for someone else's issues. Why should I pump my breasts with a machine beforehand so I can feed my child artificially? Nevermind that means pumping outside of a feeding schedule which means that I will risk spraying milk everywhere ANYWAY when my child doesn't nurse on schedule or not having enough milk when I get somewhere "private" to nurse. And I do this because my breasts... whose purpose is to feed a child... offend someone who views them as sexual?
Sorry. Don't care about other's deviancy that much. More concerned about feeding my kid. And if breast feeding confused your daughter you might have explained that boobs feed children instead of treating it like it were taboo.
Should we start putting udder guards on cows in the field too?
Back off, Bessie. Nowhere in my post did I say it was "deviant behavior," nor did I imply that. You, however, did imply that I was a "deviant." I would suggest you stop that kind of stuff really quickly.
I was talking about a specific incident with a five-year-old child and her mother. I found it about as disturbing as I would have if a child that age wasn't toilet trained and was still wearing diapers. It has nothing to do with being deviant.
What bothered me more than anything about it was having this gigantic boob waved in front of my face. At least mothers (that I've seen) who breastfeed babies and toddlers in public are discreet about it.
Having breastfed three children of my own, I also find it hilarious that you find pumping and transporting breast milk so burdensome and disruptive.
And you have no idea how I handled the situation with my daughter or what I said to her. I think it's fairly presumptuous of you to be putting words into my mouth.
If I were you I would turn away from giant boobs being waved in your face if you find it so offensive. Those who must stare at breasts have deviant issues. Once again I don't care about your issues... I don't care what you take offense at nor what you consider hilarious. If you choose to put your boob in a milking machine then I think it's hilarious that you call ME Bessie Milk comes from my breasts... if it was meant to come from a cup then I guess I would have been born with two sippy cups attached to my chest. And when I am nursing I transport milk wherever I go... no thermos needed.
"Milk comes from my breasts... if it was meant to come from a cup then I guess I would have been born with two sippy cups attached to my chest." That is officially the coolest comment I have read on this subject. You're awesome. I went to follow you and saw that I already was. I like your writing and your thinking.
Personally, I do think it's rude to let a kid just grab it like that - my daughter was not allowed to tug on my shirt and certainly not to just lift it up and dig in - but she may have assumed in a family situation that it would be okay. I do try and help my kids latch on without exposing my entire boob to the world at large regardless of circumstances, but when I'm with family I don't bother draping a blanket to hide anything once they're latched on, whereas in less intimate company I would.
That said, saying you were "freaked out" and your daughter was "confused" is a bit judgmental. Breastfeeding is what breasts are for, after all, and our society placing more value on them as sex objects than sources of nourishment doesn't change that fact, or the fact that for most of human history breastfeeding for 5+ years wasn't "freakish" in the slightest but just what people did.
Nothing wrong with it from a cup. But not directly from the breast. There comes a time when enough is enough.
If you agree that breastmilk is still a worthwhile source of nourishment beyond one year of age, what's the logic in buying/renting a pump, bottles, cups, etc., pumping the milk, storing the milk, reheating the milk, cleaning, disinfecting, and storing the pump, bottles, cup, etc. when you can just open up your shirt and let the kid have at it, no purchases, reheating, or cleanup necessary? You can call me cheap and lazy but having seen a formula-feeding sister-in-law frantically trying to mix the stuff up one handed with a baby screaming bloody murder in her ear, that was a major motivating factor for sticking with the boob through the nipple soreness and engorgement in the early days. I mean, talk about convenient!
As it happens, my daughter was also one of those kids who simply would not take a bottle and acted like I was trying to murder her if I tried to give her one, so the pump turned out to be a total waste of money anyway. I've never even tried to give my son a bottle, though he at least likes his pacifier (she was opposed to those as well) so he might be more amenable. At this point, though, why bother?
lol lrohner. Loved that story!
I breastfeed my 15 month old daughter and love doing so but wouldn't consider doing it when she was 5 years old. NO WAY!!
A 5 year old gets everything they need from a well balanced diet - why would I need to even consider feeding her in that way at THAT age?!?!?!
Society is judgemental and there is no turning away from that fact and I'm sure that if a 5 year old is being allowed to chow down on their mums boob in public then that is a definite way to get your kid singled out. I’m not only responsible for my daughter’s well balanced diet I’m responsible for HER being well balanced emotionally and socially. That is damaging.
I support breastfeeding but I sure as hell would not allow a situation like that to happen. 2012 people - its 2012!! We're not all camped out in a hippie commune - get a grip.
This reminded me of a programme I watched where a British woman was still breastfeeding her 7 year old daughter. I know there shouldn't be anything wrong with it, but it still made me cringe. Surely breastfeeding is for babies only.
I chose platex nurser most like mother at least thats what the commercial said The only thing I really have to ask is the baby in the picture, is he going to appreciate this picture one day? I have a feeling in his teen years he wont. If I did choose to breast feed my son I wouldn't advertise it this way on the front of Time Magazine. Possibly holding and cuddling while breast feeding on the front of a magazine is ok but this pic ... well I think its kinda ridiculous
You are right this could have some social issues in the future. I have been saying or indicating that all along that children who are breast fed into the toddler and preschool years are high on the list for school yard torture from class mate when this information comes to the surface and it will always surface.
Pleeeease, people... let's not fight over boobs! This is not a religious thread!
Love the pic. Between the breastfeeding topic and the cat picture, I have to add that we have two cats that are mom and daughter and the daughter who's now 10 years old still attempts to nurse on the mom cat. I feel so bad for momma.
What a wonderfully controversial topic. Boy, you can really see where people are taking a stand one way or the other!!!
I breastfed both of my kids and they were weaned at about age two. Does that make me wrong or inappropriate? I don't think so. As some have said, there are many countries where this is not a controversial and certainly NOT pornographic issue.
This reminds me of a joke I heard, a little three-year-old boy had just finished breast-feeding on his mother. When he was finished, another three-year-old boy had witnessed this. The first little boy said to the second little boy, my mom usually let's me have milk or orange juice. The second little boy replied, oh really, which one is orange juice?
If you think this kid is too old to breastfeed, I saw a video on Youtube about a mother who still breastfed her 8 year old daughter!
I have to agree with kerryg, all of it!
Breastfeeding is also used as contraception (amenorrhea) when these women in some culture don't have access to it. Plus most can't afford formula milk and breast milk is readily available and nutritious for the children. This is a cultural thing, however.
I found one of many excellent articles regarding the benefits of extended breastfeeding, not exclusively connected with attachment parenting which includes sleeping together, etc.
Dr. Sears is a highly regarded pediatrician and has written many books. Here is an excerpt from an answer about extended breastfeeding:
The brain grows more during the first two years of life than any other time, nearly tripling in size from birth to two years of age. It's clearly a crucial time for brain development, and the intellectual advantage breastfed babies enjoy is attributed to the "smart fats" unique to mom's breast milk (namely, omega-3 fatty acid, also known as DHA). From head to toe, babies who breastfeed for extended periods of time are healthier overall. They tend to have leaner bodies with less risk of obesity. This is not new research. Who would not want that for their babies?
http://www.parenting.com/article/ask-dr … -criticism
In reading through this thread, I find it strange that I was referred to as arrogant because I did what I felt was best for my sons! These are personal choices based on research and preference. I'm certainly not some strange deviant mother, nor did I produce deviant sons. We're possibly some of the nicest, compassionate humans you would ever know.
No one in this forum has said to stop giving breast milk. It the delivery method that is in question. And that was the main purpose of this forum. Although through research we know that at 1 year of age breast milk is no longer a dietay requirement in this day, age and culture. No one has disagreed that breast milk is better or cheeper and more benificial to the growing child. We're looking at the effects of contuined suckling.
"Part of our job as journalists is to provoke discussion and provoke thought," Stengel said. "It's becoming a story in and of itself. People are talking about it, and I think that's valuable, too."
Being a breastfeeding mother of three; I do agree that breastfeeding is not only good for the baby, but for the mother as well. However, now a days with all the advances in science, it is no longer necessary to do so after one year of age.
I just don't get the logic here, I'm sorry.
We know that infants AND toddlers need the nutrients (especially the fats) in breast milk for proper development, especially proper brain development. Yes, you can substitute cow's milk or formula that has the proper nutrients added to them and for many families (especially those with mothers who work outside the home) that's a fine substitute.
But if you CAN continue breastfeeding for the duration, please tell me on what planet it makes sense to trade something free and easy for something expensive and complicated. I genuinely can't fathom this.
ETA: In fairness, "complicated" overstates it on an absolute scale, but compared to open shirt, attach baby...
"Oh yes, you should only breastfeed for the first week, then give him fries and diet coke. It's scientifically proven"
Never mind that you have to run the fries through a blender and put the diet coke in a bottle!
That's some funny stuff, Ewbie.
You forgot the fag* hanging from the pregnant one's mouth.
*Sorry to American readers - cigarette
Mark, I'm tempted to pay for you to take art lessons!
Auuuuggghhhhh!!! Mark!!! Snorty, snort, snort! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .
I don't see the practice of breastfeeding as an issue here... but I think the magazine is exploiting women. I've read several books about the backlash caused by the women's rights movement, one of which is the media's use of techniques that pit women / mothers against other women / mothers in order to sell products. Even in a book as old as The Feminine Mystique, Freidan talks about the media and advertisers use of manipulative and exploitive techniques to shape women's visions of themselves... That's exactly what Time magazine did in this case... Are You Mom Enough? pushing all of us as readers (women and men) to question our parenting as though there is one single right way to parent. Honestly, I haven't read the issue yet... but the manipulation and exploitation of the cover speaks volumes to me about the editors' intent. I used to love Time magazine, too.
The article is about attachment parenting... which takes a ridiculous amount of commitment to do completely. Part of attachment parenting is extended breastfeeding because the child self-weans. It also includes baby wearing and community beds. In that case "Are you Mom enough?" is a pretty apt title because the constant "attachment" of mother and child is more than a lot of moms are willing to do.
On a lighter note, I watched a fascinating documentary the other day about a 'tribe', who hold a specific species of wild deer with a huge degree of religious reverence. If one of these baby deer is abandoned or injured, the tribe will take it in and hand rear it. It the deer refuse to adjust to drinking milk from a bottle the women of the tribe will breast feed the baby deer until they are of weaning age, (at which point the young deer are taken and released near to the main wild herd). Some people in other cultures might find this odd or offensive, but I watched the programme, and saw the compassion and lack of any 'disgust' exhibited by anyone in the tribe or the family. I believe this link is about the same tribe: http://www.lifepositive.com/spirit/trad … ishnoi.asp
On the main issue I cannot truly comment properly. I was not breast fed due to my Mum being a professional singer and the risk of 'leaking milk' showing on her costumes (we are talking the early 70's here). I ended up well qualified educationally regardless, even though fed on powdered milk. Much though I would love to have children of my own, I can't, but if I could I would like to at least start them off on my own breast milk for their first year, but could not imagine still breast feeding them at aged 3 knowing I have known my neighbour's child since he was 3, and it would have shocked me to the core if she had whipped out her breast in front of me in order to feed a walking, talking child that had adequate access to a 'non-breast milk' healthy diet. Just my opinion though, can't say if it is right or wrong.
Another 'lighten the mood' moment. I saw this posted elsewhere by someone commenting on the same Time Magazine Cover, and it is a totally hilarious clip that illustrates this debate perfectly, (well worth watching).
My daughter is 15 months old and I still breastfeed. She drinks part cows milk when I work and I breastfeed night/weekends and my days off. Happy to do so but would like to start the process of weening soon. My health visitor said that her son self weened at 16 months....I'll c what happens but it works for us!
The picture doesn't really bother me. Plus, it's acceptable in some cultures to continue breastfeeding until kids are age 5 or more. I seem to recall a few years back that the experts said that breast milk was best for infants for at least the first year of life, but it's possible the research now shows that doing so for a longer period has increased benefits.
Wow, some of these comments amaze me! My youngest was breastfed for the first year. She chose to quit not me. If she would have wanted to continue nursing I would have let her. For those of you who say the mom only does it for herself, do you think she forces the child to do it? Or do you think that because it is not socially accepted she should force her child to stop. Another thing that caught my attention is the mention of teeth. Teeth have nothing to do with breastfeeding. When a child is actively sucking it is impossible to bite. Children only bite when they are NOT sucking in which case they should be removed from the breast. It's funny how offering a human child cow breastmilk seems more accepted than offering a human child human breastmilk. We are the only species that depends on another animals breastmilk for nutrition.
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