Automatic disabling of ads

1. 80

   sabu singhposted 13 years ago

   There is a thin dividing line between genius and insanity. So too between censorship and freedom of expression. Noone in his right mind would object to the undeniably noble objectives enshrined in the policies of Hubpages, Google as well as other stakeholders. Likewise for those of us living outside the US, the slightest hint of censorship makes us wonder whether the US, the world's beacon of freedom and democracy isn't beginning to cast some dark shadows.
   The Hubpages team would be well aware that only a human being (and thankfully so), can differentiate that the tit is also a bird and the pussy also a cat. No computer program can do this with the result that the innocent use of words can be penalised.
   I am among the many sufferers as my most often read Hub has been disabled for advertisements. Ironically, it is HP and the advertisers who are losing as I am not on Google Adsense, Kontera etc.
   The Hubpages team would do well to revisit this issue quickly or risk losing Hubbers. That would be truly tragic as HP is a great place to be and I have made some wonderful friends from around the world.

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   1. 79

      Sally's Troveposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sabu, well said. If some bot or algorithm or piece of code can't distinguish between a tit being a bird or a breast, a pussy being a cat or the other thing, then to impose that automation upon the contributors to this site is just plain irresponsible.
      
      Your perspective is so interesting, because you have no vested interest in terms of AdSense dollars. You have no bones to pick, so to speak, except the bones that speak of censoring intelligent content.

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2. 80

   Aficionadaposted 13 years ago

   When this forum topic first appeared, I read through the entire thing, and I have kept up with reading it ever since.
   
   I confess to being quite tired of voices that jump up and down and basically pitch fits, then express relief that the HP staff is doing what they, the staff, said they would do all along, as if the fit-pitching and jumping up and down were somehow the reason for the staff's response. They are not.
   
   The staff said all along, from the beginning,  that they were checking one by one any of the Hubs that were flagged.  They said all along that the filter would be tweaked as they work with it, and that this first run would teach them a lot.
   
   That has happened, and it would have happened even without the screeching and screaming that has been going on.
   
   Vent over.  Thanks so much.

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   1. 79

      Sally's Troveposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's good to vent.
      
      "Pitching fits" is sometimes the only voice a person can use, but that doesn't mean they should not be heard.
      
      I think HP does its business as much from its formal business plan as from the input of its members.
      
      One thing I know, this is not a site that has anything to do with me except as how I give feedback and contribute to the bottom line of the HP business.
      
      You've been here for three months. Wonder what you will say after two years?

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      1. 80

         Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks.
         
         As for what I might say after two years....
         
         I think I would probably be rather inclined to speak like thisisoli (2 years) or Marisa Wright (2 years); or I might simply ask questions with a neutral tone (not with guns blasting), like Bard of Ely (2 years), soni2006 (2 years), and creation75 (2 years).
         
         Thanks for allowing me to vent.  Yes, sometimes it's good to.  But I also believe that there comes a point when venting becomes counter-productive and may in fact interfere with the desired outcome.  I hope I'll be able to stop myself before that happens. 

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3. 61

   Lady_Eposted 13 years ago

   Interesting comments all through; I would just like to thank HP for restoring the Ads on my:
   
   Naked Women with Buns in the Oven.
   
   I will miss the other Hub that was deleted, which had over 129 interesting comments and had been on the site for about a year, but I've just realised it's an issue that affected the whole HP website.
   
   In future, if I have any articles with words that might be "offensive" to google, I shall publish them on my Squidoo account where there is an Adult Rating for it.
   
   Cheers

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4. 68

   Lucy83posted 13 years ago

   I'm fine with what Hubpages is trying to do but I find some of their criteria excessively harsh which ends up being quite concerning.
   
   I have written some hubs about crossdressing men. They have nothing to do with sex or anything else offensive. Now the Hubteam has said that this is a grey area that might not be advertiser friendly so they'll remain with ads disabled (until Goolge makes their policy more clear).
   
   The only problems with crossdressing that ever come up are those created by intolerant and fascistic sexists.
   
   So now I ask anyone who thinks this topic might be offensive to advertisers:
   Should we disable ads on hubs about colored people because racist advertisers might be offended?

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   1. 72

      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You are confusing a grey area with a clear cut area, not entirely sure what your point is other than you may not have actually read the Google Adsense ToS for which you signed up for.
      
      This move by Hubpages is helping prevent people from getting banned from Adsense, if you are writing hubs in an area that is not classed as family friendly by Google, then I am not sure why you are complaining that Hubpages is having to take steps to protect all of it's users.
      
      The move by Hubpages is actualyl allowing a more diverse range of hubs to be written WITH advertisements. I say this because Hubpages has had an increasing number of Hubs written which are against Google Adsense's terms of service (Spend a few minutes Hub Hopping to see what I mean).
      
      This kind of activity will undoubtedly be concerning Google Adsense.
      
      Rather than a blanket ban on certain keywords, hubpages has implemented this flagging system which disables Google adverts until it can be verified whether or not a Hub is against Google terms of service.
      
      This means that a large number of hubs that are against Googles terms of service have their adverts removed, meanwhile Hubs that are in a grey area, but are generally okay, are allowed, rather than included in the blanket ban.
      
      This means that your work is never unpublished.
      More legitimate authors who comply with Google's TOS in gray areas remain published, and can earn from Adsense.
      All current authors who write for Hubpages Commerically remain safe.
      
      And to give authors this benefit Hubpagesare having to spend the time and money to MANUALLY review thousands upon thousands of articles, and jjudge them against Google's terms of service.
      
      You can complain about moral issues for a long time, but when you get right down to it, the Google terms of service are easy enough to understand, but there are thousands of posts across the internet from people who are frustrated because they lost their adsense account simply because they failed to comply with Googles Terms of Service.
      
      While Hubpages do have a good relationship with Google, they do still have to abide by the rules as much as possible, and this is a great system to remove advertisements from the articles which endanger the Hubpages program, but still allows people to publish articles about what they want.

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         hypnodudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "This means that your work is never unpublished."
         
         This is wrong as I've had one hub first ads disabled and later unpublished by HP, and another hub directly unpublished. The first one is still unpublished, while the second one having changed two pictures now is published again.

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         1. 72

            thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The adverts are disabled if you break th Google terms of service, which this filter looks for.
            
            If your hub is unpublished then you have broken the Hubpages terms of Service, but that is not to do with the issue in this thread (Which is a discussion about the automatic disabling of ads)

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   2. 79

      Sally's Troveposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If Hope Alexander can get Google ads displayed on Hubs such as "Can Men Wear Bras at Night?" then you should not be penalized for writing about cross-dressing.
      
      Lucy, I agree with you completely that there is something vital being missed in this banning of AdSense dollars. Keywords and titles are one thing, the connotation of English words is another.

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5. 60

   hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

   First I think we have the right to express our thoughts, either positive or negative; if I've understood it right HubPages is a place where writers cooperate with website owners to write content and earn money. So we have all rights to say if we agree with something or not, because every decision taken affects us all. There are some of us who always agree with everything and others who do not. But again there is freedom of expression.
   As regards me while I've accepted that a hub has been first ads blocked and then unpublished as it was about PE (Premature E....on) and this gives me no problems as I'll simply publish it somewhere else, the unpublishing, not the disabling of ads, the unpublishing of another hub which had a couple of grey area pictures made me slightly upset.
   What a lot of writers have not understood is first that no one knows about Google's being more restrictive as regards content, and second that most of those disabled hubs were at least months old. That is to say if they were good two months ago why they are not good now?
   
   As someone else has rightly said this is a business and we often forget that the owners of the business have the right to change the rules at any moment; but given that this business is built upon ours writings I have the right to say that I don't agree. Clearly no one here thinks that running such a website is an easy task, but I think everyone would have appreciated, as a kind of respect, that instead of directly disabling ads and unpublishing hubs to check later if it was the case the writer was to be notified that there was a problem concerning a particular hub. At the end it's a matter of respect, at least that's how I see it. I would have preferred, and my wallet too, an email saying "There is a hub with two grey area pictures, please have a look at it", instead of waking out and see it unpublished. We all want to make HP a better place, we earn some money here so it's a business also for ourself, but we all like some more respect, at the end we are not at school anymore.
   
   Btw there are still more than 700 hubs on desi indian aunties. But luckily that's not a grey area.

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6. 48

   wavegirl22posted 13 years ago

   well said Hypno . . but I think in regard to the Aunties you calculated wrong. . there is a new Hubber who has started following more and more people all night .. and this new person is all about Aunties .. so tomorrow it may be at least 800 Auntie Hubs.  .
   
   Why isnt anyone addressing all the Auntie Hubs that are allowed but a Hub on  sumo squats that is actually full of great content is no longer available??
   
   I really would love to hear the answer to this.

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7. 60

   hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

   Actually the Sumo Squat hub is back online, and has begun to slowly regain traffic and position on Google, and the help team has been supporting in solving the issue, but that's definitely an interesting question.

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8. 68

   Lucy83posted 13 years ago

   I know this is a business and that explains many of the actions taken. But there are some areas where a business can end up damaging it's reputation. My example about accommodating fascists who might be "offended" if their ads are on certain articles is one of them. Especially if that's justified economically.
   
   I'm also sure that Google doesn't want to go down that road for the same reason.
   
   Of course we're for freedom of speech and people have the right to be offended by whatever they want. But does that mean we have to suck up to them and change what we write about because they can't handle it? I think not.
   
   I'd still like an answer to my question: What if many advertisers start turning racist and get offended by articles about colored people? What if those articles are deemed not advertiser friendly because of it? Are Hubpages and/or Google going to disable ads for articles on colored people then? Oh, and I'd be curious what you people would do if the answer is yes? Would you stay with Hubpages and work for/with them?
   
   The point of my question is clear: I want to know how far Hubpages is willing to go in complying with Google (or anyone else). When we finally have a clear answer on that, then we can all decide for ourselves if we want to take part or not. But as it is now, there is not enough clarity on this.

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      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hubpages is not making you comply with google at all, you can still feel free to write about sexual topics against Google's terms of service, the Google adverts simply wont be displayed.
      
      To put it simply, Hubpages is not just 'bending' to the will of Google, they are simply protecting all the authors on here from losing their income because of people who write more to express their feelings on taboo topics.
      
      This way people can write more about what they want, those who go against Google Adsense TOS simply wont have adverts displayed, the people who write about topics which are borderline are considerably safer, and can still earn, and the rest of the writers can continue to write as before.
      
      Your argument as to 'what if Google turn racist' does not actually apply to the problem you are submitting to query. That's like saying 'what if the Google bans articles about strawberries'.
      
      It simply is not going to happen.
      
      The latest move by Hubpages is simply to protect those who write on Hubpages commercially from those who ignore Google Terms of Service. You can still write about what you want, but it doesn't risk the other Hubpages users income, and for many of us, that income is our livelihood.

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      1. 68

         Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Telling me "it simply is not going to happen" neither answers the intentionally hypothetical question nor does it contribute to clarification of the issue at hand.
         
         That would be like saying : "Google won't ban hubpages that just won't happen so everyone stop worrying". Not helpful.
         
         
         By the way, Google has not blocked the topic from Adsense. It was Hubpages in anticipation of what Google MIGHT do.

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            thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            So what if Google banned the keyword strawberries, or the keyword PlayStation 3, it would still be a hypothetical question, but it is not a hypothetical question that relates to Adsense policies.

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            1. 68

               Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Sigh.
               
               First of all, Google is not banning any individual words. They're banning topics and so is Hubpages. More precisely, they're preventing those topics from showing ads. Therefore it's suppressing those topics indirectly because most writers will not write for free (would you?).
               
               I'm not judging them for it and I'm not complaining that they do it. I'm trying to get clarity on where Hubpages stands on issues such as racism and sexism with regards to advertisers.
               
               If you still don't see the relevance of the question then I can only ask you to re-read the comments because I don't know how to make it more clear.
               
               I'm quite disappointed that nobody seems to understand the serious implications of this question let alone attempt to answer it.

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               1. 72

                  thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Google does ban individual words in the way that it picks up on topics VIA keywords, and in the same way as the new Hubpages system, adverts on sites deemed unsuitable are removed until reviewed by an adsense employee.
                  
                  If you don't want to write for free, you should be writing for the market anyway.
                  
                  I fully understand the purpose of your question, but you don't seem to realize that there are no new restrictions in place here, just new ways of moderating things that have always been in place.
                  
                  If you don't agree with Adsense ToS there are other modetary advertising methods which cater to the  areas that Adsense doesn't.

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                  1. 68

                     Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     It is how you use the words, i.e. how many and what other words come into play. One individual word like "sex" isn't banned as such. Only using it too often or in combination with related words will trigger the filter.
                     Hence, the filter is attempting to filter TOPICS, not words. It would be pointless to ban words anyway because you can always find synonyms or just describe those words. If you don't believe me, just read what the Hubteam says about it even on this forum: "Changing the wording to get the ads enabled again doesn't solve the problem [meaning the topic]". (not an exact quote).
                     It doesn't matter if the filter does this "VIA keywords" or via magic. It's the end result that matters and that is the banning of topics which is he purpose of filter.
                     
                     Just because you don't see the new restrictions, doesn't mean there aren't any.
                     
                     I have no problem with the Adsense TOS. Sorry but that's a rather cheap response.
                     Q:"What are we going to do if problem A occurs"?
                     A: "If you don't like the rules, leave".
                     
                     Even worse than your first response:
                     "That will never happen"
                     
                     Why are you trying so hard to undo the legitimacy of my question (which you won't manage by the way? If you don't want to answer then just ignore it like almost everyone else.

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9. 60

   hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

   Well, given that HubPages is part of YieldBuild and the managemment is the same I think you already know the answer.

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   1. 68

      Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, but I don't see the connection to this issue. Maybe I don't know my way around online businesses but please just tell me what you think directly.

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         hypnodudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         HubPages is not a stand alone business but is part of YieldBuild, a business based on optimizing ads on websites. That is to say they'll never go against Google otherwise they would lose their main business.

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            Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks. At last someone who can give me straight answers.

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               hypnodudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You are welcome.

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10. 74

    Research Analystposted 13 years ago

    Everyone has to remember that Hubpages is in business to offer quality content and provide a good place for advertisers to put their ads, so try to put yourself in Hubpages shoes, what would you do if you were the owner of this site?
    
    You would want to make sure that you ran the ship tight and right.
    
    Change is not easy and I can sense that many are just having growing pains but it will only make you stronger and better.
    
    I commend Hubpages for taking on the tall task of reviewing each hub manually and I feel they are doing a great job.
    
    Also if you desire to make money with Hubpages then you will have to remember that the advertisers are the ones PAYING YOU!
    
    So it only makes sense to make the necessary adjustments because it will benefit everyone in the long run.

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11. 60

    SamCat7posted 13 years ago

    One of my hubs was caught in the filter, and then the ads were re-enabled by a mod. Unfortunately I just added some new tags to the hub, and now the ads have been disabled again. I didn't realise until reading this thread afterwards that editing a hub will trigger the filter too.
    
    Will my hub be automatically reviewed again, or do I need to contact Hubpages to request another review?
    
    Sorry about that - I won't edit it again!

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    1. 69

       Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       My suggest is to have Staff moderate the hub again, if ads have been disabled. Let them know in an email that you added some keywords/tags, but for some reason triggered the filter.

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          SamCat7posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks Cagsil - yes, I think I'll have to do that.

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12. 60

    hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

    First the filter is well above Google TOS.
    Second some hubs have been unpublished for being in a grey area, like one of mines, not for having broken HP TOS.
    Third here we are talking about hubs which have been published without any problem for more than one month.
    Fourth if you haven't been affected, if I'm right, by the filter how can you know how things has gone?

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13. 59

    strutzasposted 13 years ago

    Great idea! I think this will work.

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14. 0

    Norah Caseyposted 13 years ago

    Update:
    
    We have gotten word back from Google AdSense's review team on a small selection of hubs, and have put together a new entry on the FAQ based on their responses.
    
    http://hubpages.com/faq/#adsdisabled
    
    Please note the section at the bottom, as it is particularly relevant to many of your concerns. If you have a specific question on a particular hub, please contact us.

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15. 60

    hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

    Thanks for the update Norah, anyway, given that "HubPages is an open publishing platform", it would be a good idea to open it to more ads publishing networks, less restrictive than Google. So writers can decide if they want to show ads from AdSense or other networks. It would be especially good for those like me who cannot use Ebay or Kontera.
    
    Another option could be to create a separate section of adult/mature content hubs and use, just to give an example, Black Label Ads network on them.

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16. 81

    sabrebIadeposted 13 years ago

    The filter I understand, that happens.
    Anybody that has used Blogger knows about their "fuzzy" guidelines.
    What bugs me is that I had ads disabled on a Hub, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.
    And it was done by a moderator.
    S'okay though, I e-mailed the HP team and I'm sure we'll get it straightened out.
    What scares me is that having lenses disabled for no reason I could see, and getting absolutely no feedback from their mods is why I left Squidoo to come to HP in the first place.
    I guess its the "Once bitten twice shy " thing.
    But HP is not Squidoo, so I'm sure this will all get worked out.
    HP hasn't let me down yet.

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17. 60

    hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

    Sabreblade, I think many writers are either scared or worried by what's going on here in these days. Also because we don't know what's coming next. I think a separate section of HubPages with a different ads network is the best way to go for writers. And probably also for website owners, but this is just my opinion.

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    1. 68

       Lucy83posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I totally agree. Competition is absolutely necessary to keep a market free. And we need competition between several advertisers. As it is now, Google is dictating the terms to Hubpages and it isn't good for anyone.
       I don't think having an adult area is the best way though, most of the topics banned by Adsense have nothing to do with porn and most advertisers are not nearly as strict as Adsense about them. They should just have certain categories where you can't have Adsense ads.
       
       The way this has gone it looks like I'll have to move a good number of hubs to another site. I suppose this is the kind of hassle you get from publishing on someone else's website.

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    2. 81

       sabrebIadeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Well right now my main concern is that the Hub is in the hundreds for traffic today, and there are no ads...and I don't know why.
       If I knew why I could fix it, but as it is, I'm just losing money on it and there's nothing I can do about it.

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          sabrebIadeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          And as I predicted earlier, everything is fixed now and Ads are back on.
          Communicating with the HP Team is key in getting these things resolved.
          In less than 24 hours at that.
          Better than 2 months and no reply like I went through with "another" company who shall remain nameless.
          Wait...I named them earlier...my bad.

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          hypnodudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          When the staff answered my email I fixed my hub and it went published again soon, but I've lost money and what's more important my position on Google and traffic. Now it's slowly regaining its place. Probably there are a lot of emails to be answered as the filter doesn't work as expected. Sorry for your hassles.
          
          I still believe that having another ads option like AdBrite would benefit us all. A monopoly is never in the interest of the customer.

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18. 61

    topstuffposted 13 years ago

    Hello, Paul. i have myself disabled both google and kontera ads on my hub titled losing virginity after getting it unpublished.i want it remain published even without ads.its just an educational hub.Any suggestions from other hubbers. Thanks

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19. 61

    topstuffposted 13 years ago

    Thanks Hubpages its published again.

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20. 60

    hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

    I've had another hub directly unpublished, not ads disabled, unpublished. And given that since this thing has begun I haven't published any new hub, well, I've said enough. It survived the first round but got caught in the second.
    
    If this thing didn't made me to lose money, traffic and page rank it would be hilarious, but it is not. But I'm just a writer, and not one of the Top Guns here. Hilarious or ridiculous. Now I'm waiting to see if, beside too many tags there are other reasons for the unpublishing.
    
    Can I suggest the HP staff to find a place with free pictures of women with burka so that we can use them in our hubs?
    And, can you add to HP TOS how many tags we can use?

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    hypnodudeposted 13 years ago

    Update: desi aunties hubs now count 635.

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22. 95

    Jule Romansposted 13 years ago

    What the heck is a desi aunty?

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23. 65

    Flightkeeperposted 13 years ago

    I can see why the ads were disabled for any hubs that might say sex, homosexual, rape, gang deaths, suicide etc.  No advertiser really wants to have ads placed in anything controversial and anything having to do with sexual relations, violence, etc.  I thought that the disabling was an appropriate way to be able to publish a serious and controversial topic but still protect the advertising relationship with google adsense.

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