My first duplicate content message

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   Toby Hansenposted 14 years ago

   I have just posted two new Hubs, and one of them has received my first ever "duplicate content" message.
   
   The message says that a large part of the content of the Hub is on other sites. This is correct. The Hub contains a well known inspirational poem that I have always found helpful, but more so now given what is going on in my life at the moment.
   
   The second Hub also contains another well known inspiration poem, but has not received the "duplicate content" message.
   
   On both Hubs I have made it clear that I am not the author of either poem.
   
   This Hub has the message...
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Inspirational-Writing-Dont-Quit
   
   This Hub does not...
   http://hubpages.com/hub/Inspirational-W … nd-Courage
   
   Help?!?!

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      simeonvisserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You should realize that the message is generated automatically: HubPages does not actually read that you have made it clear that you're not the author. It simply searches the internet for content that is the same as what you've posted.
      
      So why does one hub have that message and the other does not? Well, HubPages has to decide how much duplicate content is needed before you get a warning. It might be 10 words but it might also be 1000 words. It's more likely measured in bytes though. The one that has the message has a longer poem. It's very likely that this length is above the threshold of what is considered a duplicate content "violation" (or at least enough to get a warning).

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         lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         What difference does it make? Does that mean that I can go and steal one of your hubs and repost it elsewhere verbatim and it's okay because I put "Authored by Simeonvisser" on it?

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            simeonvisserposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Where did I say it was okay? I'm trying to explain that the message is generated automatically and there's nothing you can do in your writing that prevents that message from appearing. If you write "I copied the following from someone else" the message won't appear because the software doesn't "understand" the content of the hub it is analyzing.
            
            If you would copy a few words from my hub, it may not recognize the duplicate content because those fews words in itself will appear elsewhere on the internet. But by the time you start copying whole paragraphs it'll start to notice.
            
            I don't know technically how HubPages detects duplicate content but I imagine it to be something like this. I know universities also use complex software to detect fraud by students and they are a lot more complex than simply checking for a few copied words - they can analyze a lot more including similar structure and substituted words. I'm sure HubPages uses something sufficiently advanced as well.

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            Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Nobody is "stealing" anything here, Ironher.
            
            I have two poems by anonymous writers that mean a great deal to me and continue to help me through some very dark and hard times.
            
            I want to share these public domain writings with other people, so I posted them in Hubs, stating that they are not my work, and that I have endeavoured to find out who wrote them, but to no avail.

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               lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You did not make that clear in your OP. When you put your time, thought and hard work into your writing and have it stolen by other folks and posted elsewhere, as many, many of us here no HP have, you may become a little more sensitive to that kind of thing.

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                  Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  From the OP...
                  
                  The message says that a large part of the content of the Hub is on other sites. This is correct. The Hub contains a well known inspirational poem that I have always found helpful, but more so now given what is going on in my life at the moment.
                  
                  The second Hub also contains another well known inspiration poem, but has not received the "duplicate content" message.
                  
                  On both Hubs I have made it clear that I am not the author of either poem.
                  
                  
                  ... However, I do understand where you are coming from with having content really stolen. That is why I went out of my way to ensure that the OP and both Hubs clearly state that I am not the author of the poems.
                  
                  So far I have been lucky and not had anything of my own stolen and reposted as someone else's original work. Touch wood that none of us have to go through that, although given what I have learned on HP, I will not hold my breath!

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                     lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     So...back to the beginning...I can go and take all of your hubs tomorrow and post them elsewhere as long as I state that I am not the author. WOO HOO!
                     
                     *scheduling my day tomorrow...*

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                        Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        If all you can do is criticise and falsely accuse, then do not bother replying. I will not be to anymore of your posts here.
                        I know that I have done nothing wrong, and that is all that matters.

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                           KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Toby, we've had a rash of content stealers lately.  I've been battling them for a good month and still have two pending DMCA complaints.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   The flag will disappear if you'll alter the proportion of duplicate material versus original.  I had one like that before.  Just add more of your own words about it until you have the proportion correct.

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      Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you KCC! Both for the advice and quick response.
      
      Will go and play around with it now. Let you know what happens.

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         De'cor Amoreposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Toby I would not let this worry me in the least.  I have about 21 hubs now and I have "duplicate" marks on about 3 of them that I put on my Hubs directly out of my very own index recipe cards.  One was for the Hershey Bar Pie - well that is known around the United States evidently.  My grandmother used to make it and gave me her recipe decades ago.  I published and evidently others have published it as well.  It's pretty simple.  Only requires a few ingredients and you don't bake it - I'm sure there are other people's versions of it on here as well.  It's sorta like the "green bean casserole"  20 of us could decide to put it on a Hub and we'd all end up with "duplicate" except for the first person that published it.  Those things aren't copyrighted so it's no big problem.  Don't worry about people thinking that you are copying or stealing other people's articles.  Someone incinuated that toward me and I know it's not true.  Some things are just very common and are going to be on here more then once.  No problem.  Good luck with your Hubs.

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            Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks De'cor Amore.
            
            If I am right, a Hershey Bar is an American chocolate? Sounds like I am going to have to check out that recipe!
            
            

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Give it a rest. Your "grandmother's" Hershey Bar pie recipe was stolen from the Hershey.com website. We went through this in another thread. Or maybe the higher-ups from Hershey went and visited your dear old grandmother and recorded her recipe verbatim and stole from her. I don't know. Stranger things have happened.
            
            What I do know is it's not yours and it's stolen content. Full stop. I have my day set tomorrow. Maybe I'll go and take all of your hubs and repost them and claim they are my dear departed Great Aunt Helen's. 'kay?
            
            I simply cannot tolerate content thieves. Is that obvious?

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               Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Reported for personal attacks.

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                  lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Ha! And I'm REALLY sure she wants attention brought to her stealing content from Hershey!! But be my guest.

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      KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I guess I should clarify this statement that I made earlier.  This is NOT intended to be a way to get away with copying someone else's work.  But, it is a way that allows you to utilize commonly quoted material in your hub.  I know others have experienced this on their "famous quotes" hubs.  My answer was specific to Toby's case, not intended to be a blanket answer.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   If that doesn't work (and it has for me in the past), then contact team@hubpages.com and ask them what they suggest. When the duplication is intended because it's quoted material, I think everyone understands.  You just have to have enough words of your own about it, to "prove" to the crawlers that you're quoting only a portion and the rest is original content.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   Another reason I think one was found and not the other is that the other simply hasn't been discovered yet.  I'm sure there is some sort of systematic way they go about running the scans. It can't discover everything at the same instant.  I periodically find duplicate content of my own hubs that HP hasn't reported to me.

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   JR Whiteposted 14 years ago

   HubPages seems to be trying to distinguish cases of fair use, which involves short quotations of other people's work, usually for critical or explanatory purposes, and plagiarism.  Sometimes there is a fine line, and an algorithm may not place the line very well.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well said, JR.

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   If the works he's quoting truly are public domain then he doesn't have copyright issues, does he?

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yup. Absolutely correct, KCC. But the mere fact that they have been reposted on other sites does not make them public domain.

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         KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I agree totally.  I am assuming that when he says they are public domain, he meant it in the literal, checked it out, know for sure, sense.

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I know you well enough, KCC, to know that you understand what happens when you assume, right?

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               KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Uh uh.........*hangs head in shame*   LOL

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            Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            KCC, google Dont Quit. Every reference that comes up says by unknown/anon writer.
            There are thousands of variations of the card that I first received the poem on 10 years ago. Some versions have four verses, some have three.
            
            As far as I can find out, both poems are out there in the PD, with no writer to credit either one to.
            
            If there was, I would do it.
            
            And it is "she" by the way

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   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   Toby...you're a she?  LOL  I've never known a she-Toby.  Sorry.
   
   If it is that prominent on the internet, you could simply link to the poems without quoting them at all in your hub.  Just a thought.

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      Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No problem. More traditional female variant is Tobi.

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   lrohnerposted 14 years ago

   KCC, Toby is not speaking to me. Please tell her that if she's gonna post an "uh oh" on duplicate content, she might want to be more specific in her OP.
   
   And maybe it's just me, but rather than post something like that in its entirety, I would probably give a snippet and then link to a not-for-profit site with the whole poem like Wikipedia or something.

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   Toby Hansenposted 14 years ago

   Thanks for all your help, KCC. Have added some more content in the foreword to the Hub, and have emailed the Team to explain the situation and some of the responses here on the forum.
   Will let you know privately what the outcome is, or you may be accused of collusion or some such garbage.

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      lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ha! Toby, you can report me all you want. I have nothing to worry about. Whether you rightly or wrongly repurposed content--I don't know. You offered much more info when goaded into giving it up. The Hershey Bar Pie lady, on the other hand, stole her hub. Pure and simple.
      
      But when you come on here crying the blues about a duplicate content flag and admitting you took content from somewhere else without anymore info, not quite sure what you expected. But I do know whatever you expected was unrealistic.

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         Toby Hansenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Try reading the OP. All the way from the first word, to the last. It quite clearly states - in English - that the poems are not original, and asks what to do in the situation.
         You are an Elitist, so it should not be that hard. If it is, get a grown up to explain it to you.

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            lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Call me stupid, as I'm sure you will, but I really don't get your point. There's a world of difference between republishing a hub or other online article that you state is not original, and republishing the Pledge of Allegiance or something like that. Huge difference. World of difference. It's called copyright. Look it up.

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    Mark Ewbieposted 14 years ago

    Hi Guys,
    
    this might apply to me at some point.  I will want to use the short poem "first they came..." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
    
    If I say who its by, and then quote it word for word - is that reasonable?
    Plus probably another 800 words of my own ranting of course.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It all depends, Mark, on what the copyright says. You would have to look it up, but depending on the year it was created in, it could be copyrighted until the author's death plus like 80 or 90 years. So if what you are talking about was written in the 1700s, you're probably golden. As usual....

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    KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

    In the future it might be best to address duplicate content issues directly with HP staff via email rather then get all of our varied opinions in an open forum.  I regret posting to this thread now because of how some may misunderstand the intent and how what I said (and what some others have said) only applies to specific situations.  There is not a good blanket answer that covers every situation.  It would probably be a good idea to have HP close this thread to replies and let it fade into the woodwork.

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       lrohnerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I couldn't agree more, KCC. Thanks for your bringing sanity to this.

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