Though I don't write too many Hubs, hardly a day goes when I don't spend a quarter of an hour on my HP account, because I think it is the coolest publishing platform ever.
So I get very annoyed and hot when I find totally worthless hubs with content which has obviously been spun with an automatic article spinner, meaning that it is unreadable but almost incoherent. Hopefully, HP team will eventually come across these hubs and flag them or remove them but personally I feel that's not enough to discourage these spammers.
I think there should be a system whereby publishing rights will be automatically revoked for low quality profiles (like those having author score less than 25 for example) at which point the contributer must clear a test or something to reactivate his/her account.
I am not sure whether there is any provision for this in the current HP T of S but if not then I think its time they incorporated it.
What do you think?
Well, I don't know about the rest, but you have the possibility, and are even encouraged, to flag hubs you consider to be substandard. That way you can be sure they will be scrutinised by a staff member.
So, you want to ban hubbers that don't meet your standard. How about if we start by banning you first. Thank God and thank goodness, nobody put you in charge of this especially since nobody knows your standards.
I understand that Anish is talking about HubPages standards, or those necessary to keep/make the site successful.
What Anish is talking about is a big, big problem for HubPages at the moment. Although many of us are now Hub Hopping, it seems as though the moderators can't keep up with the amount of Hubs being flagged. I agree that more drastic measures need to be taken.
We're not talking about your alternate accounts dave. You can keep them on forums. OP's point is about spam on hubpages. I'm sure spam is not bothering you on hubpages or is it ?
Actually the Hub staff did solicit us to report substandard hubs, which devalue the entire hubpages forum. There is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting hubs that do not abide by the terms fo service that we all agreed to.
It would save everyone a little of time of repeat offenders were banned, and they often are.
Many new hubbers start out with very low hub scores. It takes the algorithm time to calculate. And not all of them are spinning hubs.
You're missing the point of what he's saying. He isn't talking about honest new users, he's talking about aggressive spammers, the type that flout the rules and ruin the site with crap.
@ Anish - I agree with you.
anish92, I wouldn't even be that nice. I would say if an article hubscore reaches 35, it is automatically unpublished, especially if it is flagged for review. Lets give the hubber a week to redo the hub to make it better. After all many people would have had to vote it down for some reason. I never seen a good or even so/so hub voted down that much, even highly controversial ones. At least not yet. I have seen bad hubs voted way down.
After that it can sit in a waiting list to be reviewed. The waiting list is first flagged first reviewed, then first automatic removal first reviewed. Of course, that is after hubbers who have seniority have been taken care of first. Seniority could go by years here, hub scores, and/or allocates. Therefore these hubs can be sitting on the waiting list to be reviewed anywhere from a week to months or more.
If the overall profile hub score goes below 35, then they will not be able to create another hub until all of their hubs have been reviewed, which will more than likely have been automatically unpublished already. Any new hub to be posted will have to be reviewed.
I'm being nice with the hub score.
If a hubber has an extremely low profile score combined with consistently low article hub scores, then it is more than likely a lot of gibberish, twisted, article, hacking, spam, and/or extremely low quality articles.
It has not been my experience to see a good that looks like it may have been written by someone not familiar with English to have that low of a score. What I have seen in those cases is a decent score and, noticed where others point out where and how to improve the grammar and spelling helping the person out. I have also seen where it was all over looked, and people pointed out their good ideas.
PS. I think a long waiting list would discourage spammers much more than just banning. You ban them, they will pop back up with another user name. If you start making tougher rules, then they will start thinking twice when they see they can't get away with their previous tricks as easily. They adapt, then HubPages will need to adapt again.
PPS. Man I wish we could edit. I forgot a hubber score starts at 0 and works up. When I said "If the overall profile hub score goes below 35", scratch that.
A spammer score isn't going to go up significantly in the first place. My suggestion would not be fair to those new hubbers who have good articles. Their score would not have had a chance to drop, since they are still climbing.
A few? Oh, if only it was just a few.
It's a few hourly I reckon.
EVERY time I hop or check it takes moments to find stuff that plainly should not be on here.
I understand what Anish means, although since every new hubber starts out with a low author score I don’t think that we should be concerned with this number and I think that whether or not to ban a hubber should be entirely up to the HubPages team. However, I do agree that big changes need to be made.
I love writing at HubPages and I love the community here. HubPages is by far my favorite writing site out of all the ones I use. However, I have to admit that I am very disappointed that there has been no move to stop very poor quality hubs from being published, instead of trying to find them once they have been published - and after they may have already further damaged HubPages’ reputation – and then removing them.
The moderators and hub hoppers can’t seem to keep up with the submitted spam, spun articles, duplicate or copied work and hubs that are so strangely worded and have such poor English that they are almost impossible to understand, and at the same time remove already published substandard hubs. Even if a large chunk of problem hubs are removed in a day, more are added on the next day.
I really think that there has to be some check of the first hubs submitted by new hub writers before the hubs are published, not to judge whether the hubs are good or not very good, and not to check for perfect English, but simply to prevent the publication of the ones that have such serious problems that they are likely to severely affect this site’s reputation. If a new hubber consistently submits these types of hubs, then maybe HubPages will need to take more drastic action.
I agree. It seems obvious. Come on HP - do something - we're hopping our best here but it's impossible to keep up.
They're too busy worrying about blurry photos on otherwise perfectly good hubs. That's waaaay more important than obvious spam and mangled, unreadable English. Come on now!
I got a "bad-photo" notice yesterday (and I don't mind, for the most part). Still, though, I'm now feeling paranoid about the photo (that I took myself) to replace the one that was on there. The one that was on there wasn't really all that horrible. It just wasn't completely perfect. Now, neither is the one I replaced it with. Whether the Hub in question gets approved, I don't know. I'm not above having Hubs that don't have pictures if pictures are going to turn into too much of a problem. The world is full of decent-quality writing that doesn't have pictures with it. I have to say, though, that even without a shred of resentment at getting the notice about the picture; I do think there are some bigger fish (and lots of them) to be frying as far as quality goes.
Interesting insights, of which I was not so acutely aware. A number of hubs showing such poor quality English were obviously captured from other sites and pasted. When you read an article without a flow and any thought behind it, this could be a clue. Can robots do this work?
I'm under the impression the other author sites, like Ezine, have editors and then we wonder who could monitor with objectivity and not subjectivity the quality and content of Hubpages.
I'm very grateful to have this platform to post my thoughts on all topics and receive feedback response from the community. Blessings to all, Debby
Yes, robots can do this work. Well, programs actually. I watched a video of recommending this one program that would scour the web on a particular topic that you are not familiar with. The program will pop up all these little blurbs from other sites about the key word you used as a topic.
Then you are suppose to be able pick and choose which blurbs you want to use, and hopefully they will sound coherent. Of course, you are suppose to change the words around so it isn't exactly like the ones the program just stole.
What usually happens is the beginning will read somewhat coherently. Then it starts to jump around a lot. It is terrible to read, and you could have gotten the same information from another site that was written much better with someone who knew what they were talking about in the first place.
I hate those programs. They are only made to create fast articles that will supposedly pull in adsense ads that pay well. They don't inform anyone of anything, but are made so that people will click through to the ad after reading the first couple of sentences.
I hate those programs, and am not going to comment about the people who use them. All I can say, if you want to write an article about something you know nothing about, research it as much as you can. Go to the library, and read about it. After researched and learned about the subject, then you can write an article on the subject. Make sure to read other articles about the subject. If you did enough learning, you should be able to add something the other articles haven't, and be able to put your own personal touch in your writings.
This: oh joy, another one ... is what Anish means. And this one's already 7 hubs in after 5 hours. Awesome.
These guys and the ones doing this and slipping through the net, weeks/months later they're still here, churning out crap. This was hubhop #2
So I understand why many hubbers are cheesed off trying to keep up with new TOS, helping out flagging etc, and these guys are filling up the 'in basket' as quick as it's being emptied.
I'm sure he'll be kicked out now since I'm sure we've all flagged him!
The amount of spam and other trash on the site is astounding. Instead of "hub-hopping," I've been going to "Hubbers" and selecting "newest." Many of them carry a name like "iPhonepromo" and write spam or spun articles. It's an easy way to find a lot of garbage. There are certainly honest (and wonderful) new hubbers, too, but a lot of spammers can be found on the first page of results.
That's exactly what I do. And I don't think it's true that new
hubs are automatically given low scores. Not a 12 or 20 anyway. If you go into Hubbers and click newest, you will see exactly what Anish is talking about and it's ridiculous. That's how mounds of this stuff gets on the site and HP staff can't keep up, because there's no screening process to prevent them from throwing up a ton of this stuff before anyone can ever flag it.
Cheesed off... Never heard that before. I like it. I think I'll keep it.
What cheeses me off as much as the spun spam and mangled English are the obviously plagiarized hubs. It pretty much takes an act of God to get them taken down. And even if they are taken down, the hubber is still left with a perfectly valid account so s/he can keep on thieving.
All this talk of cheese and spam is making me hungry!
We cannot and must not ban authors with a low profile or hub score. This sometimes takes time and it's also a learning process.
What we can do is assist the HP staff (all 24 of them) and flag hubs that are low quality and/or substandard. Be conscious that if a hub is using poor English, this is perhaps due to the author's native language not being English. We have to give them a chance to improve and offer worthwhile suggestions and advice!
The problem, Luis, is that many, many of the ESL writers here put out hubs that are as bad or worse than the mangled spun garbage the spammers put out. If you're going to allow one, you've got to allow the other in all fairness.
I think it would be nice if they had an ESL section of the site where writers struggling with the language could publish. They could make sure that Google doesn't index the hubs, but other hubbers could see the hubs and help out the writers. Now that would be beneficial.
That's a good idea in principle, Irohner. The trouble is, where would the line be drawn and who would draw it? It's not just ESL writers either, I have seen numerous semi-literate hubs by authors who are obviously of Anglo-Saxon origin!
LOL! Sad, but true...
I don't know the answer. I've said many times that unreadable = unreadable whether they're a spammer, ESL writer or native English speaker. Evidently it's not a very popular argument.
Although if the door was open for people to post in a section of the site that Google will never see, the spammers would leave it alone, and ESL writers who have had hubs unpublished would have a chance to "practice" and get help with the language. I would think it would be voluntary.
There are a lot of ESL writers who have perfect English. But I understand what you mean as I've come across some hubs that got 100,000 views and some hubbers here who had attained a million views with hubs in very poor grammar.. and I questioned this. One hubber replied saying that those who are reading those hubs have bad English too, so they understand each other.
Hey, I'm from India and English is definitely NOT my mother tongue and my English is positively NOT flawless. You will find lots gram errors on my hubs and they would've been full of spelling errors if not for the spellchecker (or whatever it is called). But that doesn't mean that you won't be able to decipher what I am trying say in my posts.
I have no problem with readable/coherent content even if it isn't grammatically sound. What I do object to however, is that the posts are at least meaningful and readable and not just a random collection of (key)words.
I'm sorry, but what I'm about to post I just read on a hub. I'll guarantee this is not ELS.
"Back into a new matrix best of all it doesn t come out of your pocket times daily starting your very can generate no your income potential is unlimited with lgn. How to generate leads and earn effortless recurring income with unlimited income you deserve discover top secrets of online home-based of"
It continues like this for the entire article. This person wrote 7 articles all like this. Keyword stuffed to score in Google just to gain Google affiliate clicks before their articles get taken down.
I wish I could report them to Google, but with the way hubpages is set up, I don't know if I would be reporting hubpages or them. I'm sure they got accepted by one good website and/or blog they set up just to get into the program.
It not only hurts us by dragging HubPages down in Google rankings, but also hurts Google AdWord advertisers. They should have to pay those scammers for those ill gotten clicks.
I just had another idea and wonder what people think about the fact that many people sign up for hubpages without writing one hub article, but can then comment as a member of the community.
Does this effect ratings in any way?
Hmmm, some people may just want to contact the authors, give them fan mail, and participate without writing their own hubs. They may just like reading, and being a part of a community, but really can't write. I don't really see a problem with it.
I don't know if or how it would affect the ratings though.
Hi. Yeah. I found no problem with having members who just read and maybe comment to support all the authors. My question, maybe someone knows the answer, "How do these members effect Hubpages overall ratings and the other algorithms/ratings within the community?"
I really can't figure the author rating scale anyway. Up one day, down the next.
P.S. Afterthought: Should we be "flagging" the crazy unintelligible hubs we see?" I've never flagged a page before.
I remember not writing in the forums for 6 months until I had contributed some decent hubs and got to know my way around.
If hubpages made a rule that one could not post on the forums until they had contributed a few hubs, that would take out a lot of those who use hubpages to flog their religion. Most have few or no hubs, and use hubpages to peddle their beliefs only.
It's the hubpages app for the iPhone. My wife is driving so I can post. Sad but true.
Wow...can you say keyword stuffing? He forgot to write the article around the keywords.
Irohner, that is an excellent idea. Some of us could offer advice to new hubbers that don't yet grasp English fully.
Hope that the HP staff is listening.
Do you have any google references (in short proof) that says they punish ESL writers content(grammar/typo/mistakes) ? AFAIK, large number of sofware dev. blogs are written by ESL developers. Not that ESL dev. bloggers are looking for traffic from google, they're getting plenty from stackoverflow and other similar networks, so they hardly bother about algo changes.
I can understand your argument on quality writing but if you're making assumption that google punished hubpages because of ESL content, then i would like to see the proof before unpublishing my whole content. I don't need to mention that we (hubbers) have also found grammar/typo mistakes from most of the staff members (except robin).
You've no idea about how high garbage spun is ranking in SE now and the same applies to ESL content. If you're making these claims solely to get hubpages on quality standards then i've no objections on that. But if you're making claims just to start witchhunt to get few confused folks here to attack on ESL writers then i've to take this opposite stance. I don't like members here who blame others with excuse- 'hey get your content approved as per new guidelines, you're hurting my earnings' -that shows they've no idea of google slap to hubpages.
I am inclined to think Google ignores ESL mistakes.
Remember a while back I posted a (broken, not live) link to a .cc site that used the keywords all in title url, and the entire site was a very poorly translated copy of another, and it was on page 1 of Google? Check for yourself. Keywords Nemo Personal Finance.
That site is still on page 1, in fact it takes up 2 positions now. I can't access the site because it returns 403 errors or something now, but it is still there.
If the new Google algorithm wanted to weed out stuff like that, they certainly haven't succeeded very well.
I want to clarify what I wrote in my previous post in this thread. I am definitely not suggesting that hubs from ESL writers are unacceptable. I’ve read many great hubs from people whose first language is not English. These hubs are perfectly understandable despite the English problems. If an ESL writer can’t make their hub understandable, then it would be wonderful if we could give them help, or at least indicate to them where they can get help. In my first post when I said that I thought “strangely worded” hubs with “poor English” shouldn’t be published, I wasn’t referring to hubs by ESL writers. I was referring to the spun hubs, possibly computer generated, that mangle the English so that it is not an identical copy of another article on the web. As a result, the hub becomes almost unreadable.
When I see forum spam and report the profile, hubpages has been demolishing them almost immediately.
My guess is others are doing the same.
I agree we are unable to keep up with the bad hubs though, and wish some sensible rules could be introduced that would not allow them to post until they have written at least one hub that is within TOS.
Surely the process could be automated to some degree?
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