Do you think Hubpages is going to file for bankruptcy?

1. 67

   3bagsfullposted 13 years ago

   I just don't see how they can survive this financial crisis
   
   Perhaps they don't have much staff and do it out of someone's home but I really doubt that
   
   I just looked at quantcast and compared it to squidoo and it was really eye opening
   
   and search keeps dropping and dropping - if I'm not making any money then they can't be either

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   1. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They don't work out of someone's home, but their office is tiny.   I believe the moderators, whom I assume are temps to get them over this hump, work from home.  So their overheads are pretty low.
      
      One thing to remember is that before Panda, HubPages was doing far better than most internet startups.  They started with a small investment compared to most,, so they don't have the crippling debt of, say, Helium (which borrowed $17 million a few years ago).  So yes, they were hit hard, but they're probably in a better position than most to weather the storm.
      
      The question is whether they'll want to.  Before Panda, HubPages had a very successful business model, working in synergy with internet entrepreneurs who were more than just writers.  That collaboration produced highly profitable Hubs.
      
      The new rules has meant the end of that collaboration.  Whether the site can get back to profitability with just writers is something they'll have to work out.  I wonder how long they've given themselves to decide whether the new strategy is working?
      
      P.S. I should point out I don't mean to be disparaging by referring to "just writers".  What I mean is, in my experience, "just writing", however good you are, isn't enough to make money on the internet.  Misha once said making money online was 10% writing and 90% other stuff, and I'd say he's right.

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2. 82

   rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

   They're still ranked 106 according to Quantcast. While not the position it once had, it's still a respectable ranking out of the millions of websites.  They do have a small staff, but it's run out of an office in downtown SF. I don't think bankruptcy would be in the plans at this stage. Diversification may be in their game plan. All successful ventures at different stages of their growth must change and adapt. I'm sure HP will figure it out. It's only been since late February, things don't change overnight.
   
   Some have gone on to make their own sites and onto other places.
   But ranking and viewers take a while to build, and a lot of work.
   
   As far as Squidoo, I have to say, whenever I've done a search, I hardly ever see a squidoo article in the search results.

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   1. 60

      Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Drivel

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      1. 82

         rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         whatever..  it's my opinion.  Time will tell.
         
         I'm off to go 'soak up the sun'.

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            Evolution Guyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Woop de doo. LOLOLO
            
            Opinion?

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            1. 82

               rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               hey, you're just a sock puppet with no hubs.  
               
               just for you EG.
               http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ivz7cqXHKc

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3. 60

   theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago

   In a depressed market, negitivity breeds negitivity, so time to start talking and thinking positive

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4. 60

   theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago

   Dam sock puppets, I wish they would go get a show of their own

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   1. 69

      Sock Puppetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What do you have against sock puppets.

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5. 76

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   I see no reason whatsoever to think they are in financial trouble.  Most online companies use casual staff whose hours they can cut to reduce costs.

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   1. 76

      sunforgedposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Losing 50% of your income potential has got to hurt.
      
      Losing 50% of your income potential with a great focus on the profitable and commercial terms may be something cutting a few staff cant save you from.
      
      The loss of just a handful of the more prominent commercial minded hubbers that were once frequent forum contributors here alone was probably a loss of around 10-20k a month.
      
      I pulled a profile that was probably netting 1k for 50 hubs to Hubs, I can only imagine what the profiles with hundreds of successful hubs would have been netting hubs.
      
      There is more reason to believe financial trouble then to not
      
      
      
      
      If thats not trouble! ..then they were making out like bandits before

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6. 76

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   Losing 50% of your income is a pretty common event for a small business.  The only thing I would take as evidence of financial trouble would be... evidence of financial trouble.

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7. 76

   sunforgedposted 13 years ago

   Considering that 50% of US small businesses fail, I would agree that its a pretty common event, Recovering from it, I imagine, less common
   
   Im only guessing, of course - but some of the vocal earners that left would have had been earning as much as several hundred casual users. Traffic may have dropped an estimated 50% (figures could be off) but the loss of potential from the unique skills they had isnt as easily quantifiable - Id guess since Its free to do so and all - that HP is at about a 30% profit potential after the commercial/spam raids and alienation on internet marketers - not merely 50% as suggested by the graph
   
   some of the drop is seasonal so the graph is overly dramatic on first glance

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   1. 64

      Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have thought about this a lot and a simple graph of "number of views" doesn't tell the whole story.  I know of at least 4,000 hubs that were deleted from a few accounts for low quality, but each of those authors had over 1,000,000 views.  I extrapolate that to mean that a large number of the views sacrificed will hopefully lead HP out of the Google doghouse.
      
      While some of those lost views will certainly hurt in the short run, I am crossing my fingers that the long term gain will more than make up for it...
      
      I hope...

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8. 60

   theirishobserver.posted 13 years ago

   Steady as she goes

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9. 84

   K9keystrokesposted 13 years ago

   This is a very scary concept. Everything changes and it would seem that HP is experiencing some growing pains. It may sound a bit Polly-Anna but, support and loyalty may prove to be helpful in such a situation. I believe they are really trying to make this one of the best sites again, just give it time. I agree with Mutiny--
   HubPages staff has to want recovery a lot more than we do, don't 'cha think?
   With that said; I am crossing my fingers!

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   1. 64

      Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think they do.

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10. 76

    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    I was just responding to the OP and early comments. "File for Bankruptcy" is a pretty big assumption. But FUBAR isnt much of a jump.
    
    Is the new Hp worth the same the loyalty that the old Hp engendered?

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    1. 64

       Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       SF - I guess it depends on where you sit.  I miss the old HP.  I am glad they are getting rid of the spammy hubs, but I think they have "thrown the baby out with the bathwater."
       
       Too many of the older hubbers are frustrated and have either left or quit publishing.  Those were the exact folks who could have helped to reinvigorate the climate here and spearhead a resurgence. 
       
       I suspect a new generation of hubbers will come in and assume the leadership roles of the lost hubbers. 
       
       As for their finances...who knows?  We are not privy to their books, nor should we be.  It is safe to say that their increase in staff and that associated cost shows that management is confident in the future.

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    2. 82

       IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Would you mind spelling out what FUBAR stands for?

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          Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          hehe - F$#^'d up beyond all recognition.

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             IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Really??? I really never knew though I suspect I have seen the acronym before.

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          quotationsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fubar

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          NO, you don't want that IzzyM!
          
          
          Fubbed Up Beyond All Recognition is as close as you need to go.

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    3. 84

       K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       @SF- you make a good point regarding the worthy nature of loyalty to the new HP; however in my humble opinion loyalty is simply loyalty. That is what makes it such an important  and vital path to survival and recovery in any situation. The real failure with HP current condition (strong writers leaving) would seem to be directly related to the loyalty concept. With loyalty comes success as well as integrity.
       But I do understand the need to keep the bills paid when it is all said and done.

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11. 82

    IzzyMposted 13 years ago

    Well, people I don't think HP is FUBAR. According to http://www.quantcast.com/hubpages.com is it still No. 108 which although dropped from its previous high is still better than my PR1 blog which is in position 86,730,243.

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    1. 94

       AliciaCposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I agree. Even with all the problems that have occurred lately, HubPages still has a far higher quantcast number than the other sites that I write for and my articles have a far better chance of being indexed by Google, or of being indexed in a reasonable position, at HubPages. I understand that this is no consolation for people who used to earn a lot of money from HubPages before Panda or before the changes that HubPages is making, but I don’t earn much from online writing, so any benefits that I can get from one site compared to another one are important to me.

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       1. 82

          IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Panda has knocked me back six months, that is all. Only six months ago I finally got a grip of how powerful HP was, and learned how to write for search engines (not that I always put it into practice).
          
          So some of those incredibly lucky people whose hubs got thousands of hits a day are upset because their views have dropped from 20,000 to 10,000 a day feel that is a reason to walk??
          
          I would be over the moon if ANY of my hubs got 1,000 visits a day!

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12. 64

    Mutiny92posted 13 years ago

    Loyalty goes both ways.

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    1. 84

       K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Absolutely agree with you Mutiny on the tide principle regarding loyalty. Personally, I do feel a sense of loyalty from the encounters I have incurred with the HP staff/team/community. Other than this very serious Panda-emic of late, HubPages has done what they said they would do--loyally.
       I do see where it can feel otherwise when looking at diminishing numbers in stat reports; even making the most loyal writers cringe a bit. For me though, I have to maintain my faith that the team is working hard to rectify all that has gone nutty. These are some very tense times and we have to rely on one another in more ways than before. We feel overwhelmed, and I am most certain that the hard working HP team does as well.

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13. 82

    IzzyMposted 13 years ago

    HP do seem to have shot themselves in the foot by pissing off loyal members. They even had a go at Marisa Wright, after she stood by them. After they had pissed off even more successful long term members.

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    1. 84

       K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I must agree it was disappointing to see MW leave.

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          Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          It was disappointing to see many excellent hubbers being shunned by staff. Not only was it disappointing, but quite rude.

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             Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I thought so too - meanwhile there is still so much crud published while those that have been mentors have been picked on for petty issues

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          2. 84

             K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Possibly no rude intent on HP part, just simply overwhelmed with new tasks? I do see the point here. It's nothing good for any of us to say the least.
             Any one holding a magic wand they are willing to wave over this situation?
             My heart breaks when I think about some of my mentors who have left, I have much respect for each of them who stayed, and for those who had to make the hard choice to leave. :{

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       2. 85

          Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not gone yet, either!
          
          I'm not going to delete my surviving Hubs because most have a link to one or more of my websites.  Those links are valuable because they have 'age'.  I may be annoyed at HubPages, but I'm not going to lose a valuable asset just to make a point.
          
          What I am doing (when I get around to it) is cutting down the length of those Hubs to 400-500 words and re-using the surplus material on a variety of other rev-sharing sites - which means I no longer have all my eggs in one basket.
          
          I have unpublished a few Hubs which have never done any good in two or three years and am going to try them on some different sites, too.

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             K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             SOOOO glad to see you pop by MW!

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             Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I was alarmed that someone said you had gone.  You've been a valuable mentor.
             Do you have to allow a period of time to pass before you can use the surplus material so it doesn't come up duplicate?

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                Marisa Wrightposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                If it's gone from HP then the Hub won't get a duplicate warning.  I'm not so concerned about it otherwise.
                
                I know duplicate content isn't recommended and I know people say material hangs around in the Google cache for a long time, but in my experience that's not so. 
                
                Some time ago, I deleted an old blog.  A week later, I posted the posts to another site which didn't allow duplicate content, and I had no problem.  And I know they really checked, because I accidentally posted an article from somewhere else, which was  still published, and they picked it up straight away.
                
                I think it depends how often the old version is crawled. Maybe someone who knows can explain how it works?

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14. 82

    IzzyMposted 13 years ago

    They haven't completely pissed me off yet. I only have one hub doing well and if it becomes unpublished tomorrow, I might well walk, but until that happens, I am staying loyal.

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    1. 84

       K9keystrokesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I for one would be very bummed to see you leave Izzy! I enjoy your work very much.

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       1. 82

          IzzyMposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Mmmmmwwaahhh! A giant kiss just for you, my friend!

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15. 70

    Cagsilposted 13 years ago

    Bankruptcy? No.

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16. 76

    sunforgedposted 13 years ago

    Quantcast numbers means nothing if the way you present your information or commercial opportunities is crippled and/or editorial/moderation is vague and uncommunicative.
    
    In my personal experience since Panda and HP's reaction, its easier then it ever was to rank to a new site. HP is easy to outrank now.(term by term, niche by niche)
    
    The massive amount of content and promoters will always keep it well trafficked, but is it ranking well enough for the tradeoff one makes in profit potential, creative control and such.
    
    It hasnt been long enough for my own tests quite yet, but early signs are that publishing on HP is detrimental to an articles success compared to self publishing or guest posting on "non-slapped" rev share or traditional sites.

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       Mutiny92posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I concur.  My new sites are getting a LOT more views than my newly published hubs on similar topics.

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    2. 59

       Smart Rookieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I can back you up on this.
       
       Two days ago they unpublished an article of mine for moderation because of "Free downloads" (the hub was about MS Office templates.)
       Four hours later, they republished it after "clearing it for publication."
       
       Yesterday, they sent me another email about it saying that it was unpublished again for the same reason as before. Both emails started with "You recently made changes to your hub.." but I hadn't. The only changes I've made to any of my hubs over the last two months was in an effort to be in compliance with their rules.
       
       A few hours later, I got a fourth email saying it had been unpublished for linking to "unrelated" hubs. It had an RSS feed with articles based on technology. It may be a bit broad, but unpublishing it for that reason seemed pretty arbitrary.
       
       So, in summary, they sent me four emails about one article, the first to announce unpublishing it for review, the second to announce it was cleared and republished, the third for the same reason as the first, and the fourth to announce unpublishing it for an entirely different reason.
       
       I've drawn my own conclusions.

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17. 72

    earnestshubposted 13 years ago

    We live in hope. The Alexa ranking is still slipping away rather quickly.
    
    Starting at a rank of 74 a few months ago it has slipped to 265.
    
    What is a bit worrying is that the slip has accelerated to the point of losing a position a day in the last 2 days.
    
    
    Bankruptcy?
    
    Not unless the business has been very badly handled fiscally, which I doubt.
    Seed capital is hard to get for any business, and it would have been careful to cover it's ass on startup in my opinion.

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18. 72

    iyoung03posted 13 years ago

    I would think that their business plan would allow for lolls and slow times.  I know that changes in February have caused some issues, but that's where adaptation and restrategizing come in, which I am sure the owners of hub pages are doing.

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