Should Hubs with Really Bad English be Reported?

1. 68

   VendettaVixenposted 12 years ago

   I know we should report spun articles and the like, but the guidelines also warn to be careful not to report people who don't have English as their first language.
   However, I've come across hubs that are written by such people, and the English is pretty bad.
   I don't mean to be insensitive or anything, but they do read like spun pieces.
   
   My question is:
   If the language used in a hub is at a point where the reader struggles to understand what's being said, should it be flagged?

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   1. 95

      rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Could you post that part of the "guideline"?  I don't recall seeing that.
      
      
      
      
      I greatly admire anyone who speaks and writes multiple languages, and am pretty tolerant of less than perfect articles written by a non-native English speaker, but this is an easy one.  Absolutely yes, anything that reads poorly, particularly to the point that it is similar to a spun piece, flag, flag, flag.

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      1. 66

         relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         When you go to flag a Hub, there are two options that would cover poor English
         
         Spun or Poorly Translated - "Nonsensical or difficult to read, as though it were created by an article spinner or automated translation tool. Please include an indicative phrase or two below."
         
         Low Quality - "Short or unfinished, rife with spelling or grammatical errors, contains a large number of broken links or videos, or is poorly formatted."
         
         A Hub unpublished by the moderators for either would most likely be considered "substandard," which is defined in the FAQ, http://hubpages.com/faq/#substandard

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         1. 95

            rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            All of this I am familiar with.  What I don't recall is an admonition "not to report people who don't have English as their first language".

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      2. 51

         qiaohai0005sposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         total but played in one less game

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   2. 79

      Les Trois Chenesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

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2. 0

   Website Examinerposted 12 years ago

   When flagging hubs, "low quality" is one category, and it covers the situation where the hub is difficult to understand because of bad grammar, too many errors and the like. No regular member has the duty to flag hubs, but you can flag such hubs in good conscience.

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   1. 59

      Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      We common members do have the power to flag hubs for low quality, just not the power to delete them.  I think this goes for the E's too! 
      
      
      
      
                                       oooxxx0000OOOO(:c-<

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3. 0

   Arlene V. Pomaposted 12 years ago

   For whatever reason, if you can't understand the Hub and it takes a lot out of you just to read it, then there's a possibility that others have a problem with this particular Hub, too.  It really doesn't matter who writes the Hub, does it?   If the Hub and its lack of quality bothers you that much, flag it.

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   1. 59

      Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sure, there's no harm done if the hub is deemed okay by whoever does the checking.  Don't ever feel guilty about flagging suspect hubs.  There are always plenty of low quality hubs to find, for that matter. 
      
      
                                         oooxxx0000OOOO(:c-<

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      1. 59

         Dale Hydeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I would say that if it raises a "flag" to you when reviewing, flag it... the mods can then make the determination.

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4. 68

   VendettaVixenposted 12 years ago

   Ah, I just realised that it was a hub written by a Hub Pages user that warned the reader to cut non-English-speaking writers some slack.
   They didn't say -not- to report the hub, but to keep in mind that they are learning a new language, and won't be perfect at writing it.
   Which I do - I totally respect anyone who takes on learning to write and speak an entirely new language, but I do think that if people can't understand it, there's a problem.
   
   Thanks for the advice, all. It's appreciated.

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5. 82

   Pcunixposted 12 years ago

   I assume that HP looks at how many flags have been raised and examines those with the highest numbers first. I further assume that if I am the only person to flag a hub as low quality, the moderators may never look at all.
   
   I therefore flag anything I see as low quality without hesitation.  It's ultimately someone else's decision anyway.

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6. 65

   awareposted 12 years ago

   put  your name on the flag you wave.  sucker punching  from a blind, on the sidelines .  is the biggest  problem with the way moderation is done here.. Justice requires being able to face your accusers .

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7. 65

   awareposted 12 years ago

   pcunix?     do you  inform  the writer  of the hub you flagged that  you did?  and the reasons why? or are you a hide and seeker?

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   1. 82

      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Do you have any idea what we are talking about?
      
      I don't think that you do.  The flagging process MAY bring a hub to a moderators attention.  That is ALL that it does.  If I flag your hub, my action does not affect you in any way unless a staff member chooses to look at your hub AND they decide that  there is a problem that warrants action.
      
      There is no sucker punching, no accusation, no harm whatsoever if the moderator disagrees with my opinion.
      
      Oh - by the way - you are safe.  Most of us never flag poetry.   I certainly do not.

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      1. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I don't flag poetry either.  Besides, I find very few real poets here and even less real poetry. 
         
                                                              ooooxxxx0000OOOO(:-<

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8. 82

   Pcunixposted 12 years ago

   But to answer his question another way:
   
   To all of you who cannot spell, who do not know "your" from "you're" or when to use "its", who cannot construct a proper sentence, never mind a paragraph, and who seem not  to be aware that some words have more than two syllables, yes, I flag your "stuff" when I see it in the Hopper and I hope that  I am not alone.   I further hope that a moderator sees your hubs as I do and unpublishes them quickly  so that your presence among us is brief and unremarked.
   
   Just my opinion, of course.

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9. 65

   awareposted 12 years ago

   it was simple yes or no  question.    your non answer was the answer . you don't. you flag behind a tree.  that i see.  you go and tell the teacher cus you dont have the grapes to confront a student directly  with your criticism  of their work.    that's what im talking about.  right now  the we.  is you and me.

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   1. 82

      Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If you ever produce a hub that exhibits deficiencies equal to what you just said here, I will flag it as "low quality".  Is that "grapey" enough for you?
      
      I suggest that you would benefit from some time spent in the Learning Center that you might come to a better understanding of the reasons and the mechanics of the Hopper.  Other than that, I'd advise you to stick to poetry.

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10. 65

    awareposted 12 years ago

    The question was do you sign your name to it?   flag all you want   just  claim it .    so and so flaged this . i dont wana  take away your flag i want to highlight it

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    1. 0

       Website Examinerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       People are not here to make enemies.

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       1. 82

          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Let's not give bad ideas to people..  Somebody really could get hurt.  Probably them, but you never know.

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             Website Examinerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Thanks, you are right. It should be fine now.

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    2. 82

       Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Do you have any clue how the Hopper works?  Have you ever used it?

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    3. 82

       IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I know you are not asking me, but when I flag I am pretty sure HP know it is me flagging. After all, I am signed into HP at the time!
       
       Oh and I would be quite happy to let the people I flag know it was me too, but that's a bit of a non-point because flagging doesn't unpublish a hub, only a moderator can do that.

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       1. 82

          Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I already tried explaining all that.  They don't seem to understand.

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          Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          +1 for Izzy's comment.

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    4. 92

       DzyMsLizzyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       It seems to me that I have read that the flagging process does leave you anonymous to the person whose hub you have flagged.  Perhaps not to HP staff, but only to the author of the low-quality article.
       I believe I further understood that you do not have any choice in the matter--the process in and of itself makes you anonmous and invisible--so any argument about "cowardice" is irrelevant.

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11. 73

    Richieb799posted 12 years ago

    I am not sure how Non English native speakers write hubs here, whether they rely on there existing skills or use a translator... but perhaps a feature which allows them to submit it for review(on the basis of language fluency) could be an option?

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12. 75

    Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

    Flagging is the equivalent of an alert. No action is taken on the hub unless the HP moderators (eg, staff, not "elites") review the hub and check it against the HP standards.
    Let's not forget, too, that the substandard hub can be revised and republished.
    So it's not a punishment, it's an opportunity to make your writing better.
    The analogy of ratting on a fellow student to the teacher is disingenuous.
    
    
    This is our community and everyone can (or at least should) play a part in keeping it the best writing site on the internet. If you want Hub Pages to be overrun with badly written, overly promotional, spun, spammy or otherwise low quality hubs, by all means, do nothing.
    
    Believe me, I never worked as a hall monitor in school. I hate rules and regulations. I don't like the idea of a police state in any way shape or form.
    This is about quality control, not one-upmanship or revenge.
    I feel it is my responsibility -- our responsibility -- to keep the quality of this site high so that we can be proud of it and all make a lot of money (not necessarily in that order, either. ).

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    1. 95

       Diana Grantposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I think you've said it all - it's about quality control. 
       People can be overly sensitive.  If an article is flagged, it is not a personal attack but rather an invitation to improve what you have written. Feedback is on of the ways in which we learn to meet required standards, and it should be welcomed.
       I know it is not customary to criticize poetry because it is so individualistic, but I must say I have seen some gross stuff on the internet which would never get published any other way! Why, I might even publish some myself on HP, safe in the knowledge that people will let it pass, however awful it is!

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       1. 0

          calculus-geometryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          well-put.  Ultimately, it doesn't matter why a person's English is bad, whether it's their second language or not. If we put people's fragile egos above quality control, the reputation of the entire site will suffer.  Users who receive a lot of flags should look at it objectively as feedback on their weak areas, not as personal insults. Luckily, I've never read an article here that was so bad that I had to flag it.
          
          On a side note, there is a lot of entertainment value in some of the awful poetry here.  Please do contribute if you have the urge

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             Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             There's plenty to be flagged here!  Just check out the latest hubs and you'll usually find a few from new members. 
             
             
                                             ccccooooxxxxx0000OOOOO(:c-<

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             Pcunixposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Never been in the Hopper?

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             1. 95

                rmcrayneposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                +++
                
                Plenty of stuff here "worthy" of flagging.

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          3. 95

             Diana Grantposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Now you've given me the urge
             To summon up some solemn words,
             Arrange them in a dainty dirge
             And see my Google rating surge
             

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