Quality VS Qualitity ; new HP Rules for Google?

1. 88

   Stacie Lposted 12 years ago

   I'm wondering with all the new google rules and speculation about what works and what doesn't.
   Some hubbers stated that they deleted hubs and made  changes which increased their views. Other prolific hubbers keep chugging alone and write a lot of hubs to get views
   Which is best now?

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   1. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It really depends what's happened to you.
      
      If you've been Panda'd, there is absolutely no point in adding new content.  The only way to recover from Panda is to find, and fix, the reason for the penalty.   That's because Panda will always penalize your whole sub-domain, even though you may have only one or two "offending" Hubs. 
      
      Unfortunately, it can be difficult to work out why you've been Panda'd, because Google's explanations aren't all that clear.  Some things that are worth trying:
      
      - Google doesn't like keyword stuffing and has lowered the threshold - so some people may need to revise their content to get the keyword density to 2% to 3% (including Amazon and eBay ad text). 
      
      Google doesn't like keywords repeated in headings (e.g. Peanut Butter ideas - delicious Peanut Butter snacks) or titles repeated on multiple Hubs (e.g. Peanut butter ideas #1, peanut butter ideas #2). 
      
      Google doesn't like small websites - they want "authority sites".  So if your sub-domain has only 30 or 40 Hubs, you probably need to add content. They also don't like short posts.

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      1. 88

         Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Ok Marisa..those are good points and I really dont know if it applies to my hubs or not. I guess I have to check eBay and amazon again or keywords..sigh

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            Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I think 79 Hubs may be on the small side.  It's pretty easy to put your Hubs through a keyword density checker - there are plenty of free ones.

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   2. 76

      TIMETRAVELER2posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I've been here 3 months and have little or no idea about any of this.  I can't even figure out how to find out if I'm earning anything at all on Adsense and I certainly don't know how to find out which ads are making money, except for ebay...which is so pitiful that it isn't even worth talking about.  It's very frustrating.

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   3. 82

      Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't see where quantity has anything to do with a subdomain unless it's a niche site.  That is, an account like mine that covers a variety of subject matter wouldn't be considered an authority for any one.
      
      I was leery whenever I saw people advising, 'just write more' on writing for money platforms.  I think that advice is very outdated.  Just my opinion.

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      1. 77

         lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I guess it is

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         1. 82

            Jason Marovichposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If something's working for you with Google, write like the wind, sure, but be careful to keep everything unique and of quality.  That would be better advice.

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2. 89

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   I would check your view durations. It is the best guide to which pages have appealed to readers and which haven't. Any pages that have a very short view duration and have had very view visitors since publication are probably not worth keeping.
   
   Google tries hard to send people to pages they want to read. Panda is all about weeding out stuff that is not hitting the spot.
   
   Google also seems to have a particular down on affiliate pages so getting rid of Amazon and ebay capsules that have never sold anything is a good idea too. Just keep the ones that have done well for you.

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      But Will, how can I know?
      
      I advertise tools, home improvement products and TV's.
      
      I then sell licorice, bras and E-books.
      
      I push kitchen appliances, car accessories and board games.
      
      And then sell baby diapers, cosmetics and sex toys.
      
      Sometimes I think I should just put up a blank Amazon ad and say "Go buy whatever you want!" and it would work as well.

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      1. 77

         lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I wish

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      2. 59

         MelissaBarrettposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I sold a yellow tractor seat from a hub about hair gel.  Beat that.

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      3. 77

         Shadesbreathposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         This is touching on my fears. I'm wondering if having a variety of articles is going to be the problem. Google is looking for specialists, and jack-of-all-trades stuff like people do on HP is just not going to cut it.
         
         I will be the first to admit that, when I'm looking for something online, I search it on Google, and, to be frank, if it's a hubpages article that comes up... I look to see if there is a "real" site first. I do the same with squidoo, ezine, ehow or whatever they are called. I know enough to be distrustful.
         
         Not because I don't think there's good stuff on HP--I know I've got some fantastic research stuff jammed in between the heap of my mostly ridiculous attempts at humor, and there are some amazing, brilliant and brutally disciplined people on here. But, I also know there are people who are simply not qualified to write but can "publish" on this platform, and, even worse, I know how many people are just trying to make money and working the system, the numbers game, exploiters, etc., and they have, IMO, killed the ability for an aggregate site like this to do well without much, much, much, much, much, much higher standards for quality.
         
         It goes back to the old, old thing they teach in writing classes: you have to respect your reader.
         
         All the business and politics is what confounds things, prevents people from doing well who should, puts people who shouldn't do well out in front anyway, but... in the end, is why a book like Moby Dick is an all time best selling book NOW, and always will be throughout time despite it being a "laughable joke" and a total failure in its time. The system of the "now" is always being played by the people who want money.

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   2. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I don't agree.  Take a look at any of my websites. You'll see lots of eBay ads.  They may not get the most stellar traffic, but Panda hasn't affected them at all so far.

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      1. 89

         Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         You are so extraordinarily unhelpful at times, Marisa. Sometimes you seem to know what you are talking about sometimes you really just muddy the waters.
         
         If all you have to go on is a few sites with very little traffic and haven't been paying attention to what is going on here for the last few months, it would be best to keep out of it.
         
         We are talking about peoples livelihoods here, in many cases.
         
         Just to hammer home the point:
         
         Squidoo will not let you publish new pages which are highly commercial ie affiliate laden (unless you are one of the select few, perhaps). They are keeping what traffic/income they have and are not risking Panda death.
         
         Hubpages have advised removing affiliate ads in the learning center
         
         Most (though not all) sub domains hit by Panda have been affiliate link heavy. Thisisoli, JGaunt, Izzym etc.

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         1. 85

            Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            We disagree on this one, Will - that's no reason to be insulting.
            
            It's true many of the sub-domains hit by Panda were affiliate link heavy - but that doesn't mean that was the reason for their demise.  Many of them had keyword density problems, and some of them lost huge amounts of link juice when their artificial backlinks got devalued.
            
            Some of the most prominent Amazon Hubbers weren't even hit - they just deleted all their Hubs because they believed they couldn't make enough money with the low number of ads allowed on HP.  And they're making money very nicely, thank you, using their old techniques on other blogs.  They scoffed at HubPages' restrictions on Amazon at the time, and they still do.
            
            I also use a program called phpBay on my websites.  I'm a member of a forum there and I know several other members who make a very successful living from sites set up like mine - and that's why I offered them as an example.  The format works, even after Panda.
            
            Besides, the level of traffic to my websites is irrelevant.  The point is  they chugged along before Panda, and they're still chugging along after Panda.  In that context, it's irrelevant whether they're getting a few thousand views a month or a few hundred thousand.
            
            I know Squidoo placed some restrictions on affiliate links but last I heard, it was 9 to the same domain per lens, and whitelisted domains like Amazon were unlimited.  But I haven't used them so I can't comment.

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         2. 89

            IzzyMposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yes many of the pages on this subdomain has heavy affiliate linking, mostly no-follow links to Amazon, and less that 1 link for every 50 words.
            
            It absolutely does not explain why Google is so down on my account.
            
            Meanwhile, I have a second subdomain that is very similar to this one, and I was able to work out that it has less than 1% affiliate links across the whole subdomain (0.08% to be exact), which cannot be considered 'heavy' by any stretch of the imagination, and it yoyos like most accounts here now.
            
            It did great for about a month there, then a couple of days ago, Google took the traffic away again.
            
            I have another niche subdomain that utilises both Amazon and eBay capsules, and it is going from strength to strength at the moment, and yet another niche account with neither Amazon nor eBay and it is also going from strength to strength.
            
            I have not dropped my use of the keywords in the titles, subtitles, picture captions etc, because that is good SEO practice.
            
            From that, you might conclude that niche accounts are the way forward, yet I don't believe that to be true either, and anyway, it is too early to tell. It would not surprise me if Google one day hits both of them.
            
            Oh and it is NOT related to number of hubs.
            
            I have yet another niche account with just 3 hubs.
            
            One of them has just recently hit the Google traffic flow stream and is starting to do nicely  - and that is without subdomain strength in numbers:)
            
            Meanwhile, while lots of folk lost their traffic in the recent algo update (including I suppose my second subdomain) this one has not lost out; if anything my Google traffic has slightly increased.
            
            I absolutely think everyone here whose subdomains are getting hit, should open new ones so that their work is spread out. If one goes down, another rises, and there really seems to be no rhyme nor reason.

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            1. 77

               lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Good point! I think I should now spread and make them more niche oriented. I was planning on writing a few more review type hubs and I don't want to risk it anymore that too when everything is stabilized for me!

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3. 86

   rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

   I think this is relative. I have one hub in particular that does very well with rank and I repeat the keyword in every heading, for no other reason than to categorize the content. Sometimes it simply doesn't matter if it's bringing traffic that actually stays on your page. I think view duration would be a better indicator of which pages are doing well.
   
   As far as quantity, why have 500 hubs if only a handful get views? Quantity doesn't indicate authority nor does a smaller site indicate lack of authority. If a site has 30 or 40 quality pages that receive a decent flow of traffic, the site can rank well.

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   1. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      When you say "repeat", do you mean you put the keyword once in every heading, or you repeat it more than once in a single heading?
      
      Of course it's always speculation, but it's the repetition of the same keyword two or three times in the same heading that's believed to be the problem.

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   2. 85

      Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree, if the site already has good backlinks, age etc etc.  But if a site isn't getting much traffic and is very small, Google isn't likely to pay it as much attention as a larger site on the same topic.  I can't see myself ever having 500 Hubs - that would be too much to manage, IMO - but it does seem that bigger is better these days.

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      1. 95

         PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think it's partly because not all keywords are treated the same.  "Weight loss" is treated differently to "Benjamin Disraeli".  You can probably repeat  "Benjamin Disraeli" lots of times, because Google doesn't see it as commercial, whereas you'd have to be careful with  "Weight loss".

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            Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's another consideration, but Google does not dislike "commercial" keywords.  It dislikes saturated keywords, i.e. keywords which are associated with dubious products and spammy affiliate marketing.   Weight loss is one of those.

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               PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I didn't say G disliked commercial keywords, I said that it can judge them differently to non-commercial ones and apply different rules - by commercial I mean where there is heavy competition.  Weight loss is both spammy and commercial, so probably wasn't the best example.  But in the context of what rebekah said, my general point was that keyword stuffing is not an absolute, it is relative according to the keyword(s).

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4. 95

   PaulGoodman67posted 12 years ago

   I have focused on weeding out the worst stuff.  I've not crashed and burned.  But neither have I experienced any major traffic improvements.  I tend to be sympathetic to types of things that Marisa and Will are saying on here, plus what Paul and Jason (HP staff) have said in the forums.  The whole interpreting Google thing is a bit like reading the tea leaves and it's confusing for new hubbers with so much differing advice flying around (heck, it's confusing for more experienced hubbers too!) - but you pays your money and you takes your choices at the end of the day.  Google say they want more quality and less SEO, so that's what I am trying to give them.  I hope they will reward me! 

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5. 82

   WriteAngledposted 12 years ago

   I don't think the matter is as simple.
   
   I only have 27 hubs.
   Most contain a few Amazon or eBay capsules.
   I write about whatever takes my fancy because I do not feel like restricting myself to one topic.
   I have never bothered to delete or edit a hub because it does not get many views.
   
   
   My average traffic remains at 4x pre-Panda and 6x Panda levels. I am seeing bigger fluctations between weekdays and weekends, but that seems to be a universal phenomenon.
   My Adsense earnings from here are negligible, but have not fallen.
   My HP Ads income now averages about a dollar or a bit more per day. This is very disappointing in comparison with what I expected when I started here. Nevertheless, going by what many other people have declared earning on HP, I consider it is not bad for such a small number of hubs.
   
   Thus, I fail on four of the suggested criteria.
   I've no idea how I stand on key words.
   I've no idea how long people spend on my hubs. I've never made sense of Google Analytics so do not use it at all.
   However, so far I have not been Panda'd after recovering from the very first one.
   
   I do consider most of my hubs are quality ones. They often take me a number of hours to research and several more hours to write, since I care a lot about providing solid information and about writing with good grammar and style.

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   1. 89

      Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If you have no problems and you are not relying on your online writing for a living I would guess none of this stuff will effect you.

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      1. 82

         WriteAngledposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, it does affect me. I started writing here in the hopes of constructing some passive income to make up for my lack of pension prospects, so that I could have some of my old age free to pursue other interests rather than working all the time. However, I have found the returns far too low and far too fickle to justify taking time away from my work to produce lots of hubs.
         
         Nevertheless, whether or not I am attempting to earn a living online at this moment is of no relevance to the fact that not one of the suggested "Panda crimes" has influenced the views I receive.
         
         The only trend I can see from what some people have reported is that very hard sales pitches no longer do well here. Hence a "buy xxx online" hub will mostly fail and probably drag down the sub-domain now, while the presence of some product capsules in the context of an informational article will not.

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            CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I don't think anyone knows WriteAngled, and it seems to be very much the luck of the draw as to whose traffic is going up and down at any one time.  Some hubbers have experienced very long downturns, some are more up and down over shorter periods, and some, like yourself, luckily do not appear to have been particularly affected at all.  And of course it is important to you, this is your hard work and you have have invested a lot of time, energy and expertise into your hubs.

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            1. 89

               Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Flotsam in the sea of life. That's the spirit.

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6. 91

   DonnaCosmatoposted 12 years ago

   While I hate to be fatalist, I've given up trying to understand Google, Panda or any of their other antics. I'm just focusing on writing naturally and providing value added information for my readers and hoping for the best.

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7. 83

   CMHypnoposted 12 years ago

   My traffic has just returned after being absent since August.  In that time I have deleted, added, checked, moved capsules etc etc etc, but I don't know if any of these things helped or if the traffic would have returned if I hadn't changed anything.  Like Donna, I am now a bit of a fatalist as the traffic could disappear again tomorrow.  So I write what I want to write now, and it works or it doesn't.

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8. 88

   Stacie Lposted 12 years ago

   Well I've taken some suggestions and made some minor changes and my traffic is almost tripled. Lets see how long it lasts....

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      PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Good luck, Stacie.  I think most people accept now that just a handful of minor problems - such as text and titles interpreted as keyword stuffing, or too many ads, or hubs with short lengths of visitor  time - on a few hubs can bring an entire subdom down.  The hard work of fixing isn't the editing, it is identifying what is causing the issues, it seems.  I have probably erred on the side of caution with my hubs, but I hated it when I was slammed by Google.

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9. 92

   Dolores Monetposted 12 years ago

   I've seen the biggest drop since the 1st panda. So I googled the latest panda update to see what was being said. They say they are attempting to reduce ranking for low quality sites. However, the first sites at the top of the page had about 3 sentences of content. Sometimes I have to wonder about the whole panda thing. For a while, everything I looked up came up as commercial, then that died down. I guess these things take some time and we'll just have to see. I have bounced back before...

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   1. 88

      Stacie Lposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      sorry you are experiencing this now. I just got over a month of low views.Maybe it wont last but I'm hopeful.

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10. 88

    Stacie Lposted 12 years ago

    Some of the suggestions discussed ads with the keyword and keyword stuffing.
    I have looked at the keyword stuffing issue and never realized how many times I repeated the same word in the article. It not easy trying to find synonyms for some words.

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11. 76

    skyfireposted 12 years ago

    Stop assuming what google likes or dislikes, test and then make changes.

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       lobobrandonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yup I test things myself before making changes. Unpublished 5 hubs just now all were based on Hub pages and weren't receiving any internal traffic either and they were 4 months old so deleted them. Others may perform better and I don't need to waste time editing those.

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12. 86

    rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

    Does Google even know what it likes? I found this article on my twitter feed posted by Maddie. Definitely worth reading.
    http://marketingland.com/is-googles-ove … feedburner

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       PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Good article.  I personally think that Google have some idea what they want, but they are unable to enforce it and overstate their abilities when it comes to weeding out the crap from the SERPs.  A lot of the Google tools are blunt weapons too, it seems.

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13. 92

    Dolores Monetposted 12 years ago

    they mentioned they'd penalize sites that were top heavy with ads - a good idea - i've been on sites that you think there isn't any content at all, you have to dive deeply just to find the content, like reaching for a stone in muddy water

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       Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       When they say "top heavy", they mean it literally - sites with lots of ads at the top of the page.

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