My Roller Coaster

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  1. Mark Knowles profile image57
    Mark Knowlesposted 11 years ago

    If anyone is interested - this is my personal roller coaster traffic-wise for the last year or so.

    You can see the full size image here: … lytics.jpg

    Apart from editing hubs when the rules were changed and allowing hubs that were subsequently unpublished for "rule infractions" that I could not be bothered to deal with to remain unpublished, I have done nothing to the hubs in my account.

    Just sharing. Make of it what you will. It wasn't worth a hub as I have no real answers. As a matter of interest - income was far worsely affected than traffic.

    Seems to me - "gaming" google with the subdomain switch was a temporary fix - but I could be wrong. Traffic continues to slide. Most (not all) my content is "evergreen."

    Not complaining. Not "knocking" hubpages - just sharing.

    1. jimmythejock profile image83
      jimmythejockposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      My Chart is very similar Mark but i am sure there will be a turnaround soon, hkeep smiling and good luck .....jimmy

      1. Mark Knowles profile image57
        Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I am still smiling >>>>> big_smile

        Not sure there will be a turnaround - that is not my experience of these things.

    2. IzzyM profile image86
      IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry to hear that Mark. I was kinda hoping that it was only a few of us who lost traffic, for it never to return, but seems I was wrong.

      Still, we're in good company smile

      If Google thinks your hubs are 'bad', then there is very little hope for the rest of us sad

      1. Mark Knowles profile image57
        Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think google thinks my hubs are bad. But I suspect this graph is typical. If you look at the quantcast stats for hp and bear in mind how many pages have been published over the last 13 months - this is not good news.

        Certainly not for me income-wise. I think a better tack would have been to take out the trash instead of sub-dividing it.

        You should see my niche accounts - way worse than this. Admittedly they were all straight sales pitches and no real information, but subdividing them was a total disaster.

        1. IzzyM profile image86
          IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think the 'taking out the trash' was ever completed. There are still 100s if not 1000s of sub-par hubs published. There are also many new spammers getting through and publishing a host of new trashy hubs that HP staff are not getting on top of.

          While my main account here is down and out, my new subdomains are showing the signs of life my hubs used to.

          I can still publish new hubs, on brand new subdomains, and see the hubs rank almost immediately.

          No single hub is yet getting 100s of views, yet those with Amazon capsules are making sales, right from day 1 of publication.

          So HP is doing something right.

          The graph is not that bad either. OK we are not back up to what we were, but it was heading slowly in the right direction until the middle of February.

          The decline could be seasonal.

          I still think a lot of our accounts have been sandboxed, or are suffering from an uneasy sandbox effect (hence the traffic swings), and we will not really see how HP are doing until 12 months have passed after subdomains were introduced.

          Meanwhile, it is the older accounts that seem to be getting penalised, (as you would expect as they will have more incoming links), so the solution is either to transfer existing niche hubs to a new account, start a new account, or wait it out.

          I do think it will pass. If it doesn't, then this account will never see a return of traffic, nor yours, nor anyone else whose traffic has stalled. I don't believe that will happen.

          1. CMHypno profile image83
            CMHypnoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you about the amount of trash still on the site Izzy.  When I have the energy I don't hub hop I go onto the the best hubbers link and start working my way through those with a hubberscore of around 45.  Its like shooting fish in a barrel, as practically every hub has to be flagged for low quality, duplication, spun and translation problems. There are hundreds of them and some of them are several years old.

            So maybe we need to try and weed out some of the old trash as well as catching the new, incoming trash?

            1. Marisa Wright profile image89
              Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              HubPages was supposed to have done that already.  Remember all the unpublishing that happened during the rule changes, immediately post-Panda?

              At the time, I questioned why moderators were checking Hubs in the strict order they were reported by the automated filters.   If they had set one or two moderators to start checking Hubs with very low scores or Hubbers with very low scores, it would've been like shooting fish in a barrel as you say, and would have got rid of the real scum much faster.  As it was, they spent a lot of time moderating minor issues on otherwise good Hubs first - and still haven't gotten around to some of the real dross.

              I still think they should have one moderator monitoring the new Hubs queue full-time, too, to catch the spammers before they get started.

              1. profile image0
                EmpressFelicityposted 11 years agoin reply to this


                ...and there's nothing more demotivating for someone who's written good hubs (or at least, genuine attempts at good hubs) to find that their stuff is being moderated while the scum/spam gets left in place.

                Sorry HP, much as I like you, your post-Panda clean-up operation sucked from a PR point of view.

            2. JamaGenee profile image80
              JamaGeneeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Mark, I used to try to eliminate the trash by hub-hopping, but lately I've been combing "Latest hubs" - i.e. new hubs, mainly by hours-old spammers masquerading as hubbers - and flagging them for a variety of violations.

              Of course, this is akin to bailing water out of a sinking ocean liner with a bucket. But if we all do it, it will bring more garbage hubs (and garbage "hubbers") to HP's attention for review and unpublishing, which in turn would make a significant dent in the garbage on HP.


              P.S. Bravo for going after "Best" hubs by blatantly sub-standard hubbers. Ones who have advanced degrees seem to be at the top of this category, but because of their education have NO excuse for publishing garbage, let alone being rewarded for it in popularity OR earnings.  Just sayin'...

    3. Marisa Wright profile image89
      Marisa Wrightposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty much the same for me, except that my traffic stayed high a bit longer - until December 6th.  It has stayed down ever since, at less than 20% of my previous traffic.  I've tweaked a few things to no avail so far.

  2. Pearldiver profile image68
    Pearldiverposted 11 years ago

    Bon Jour Mark... Say no more! sad

    Awww man that would break my heart! That's pretty much a current level of 20% of your pre-panda levels! sad

    It certainly has been a matter of: What has NOT been said on this issue rather than what has!  Great reward for giving up smoking Mark! roll

  3. Ron Montgomery profile image61
    Ron Montgomeryposted 11 years ago

    God's will be done...

    1. Mark Knowles profile image57
      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this


  4. PaulGoodman67 profile image94
    PaulGoodman67posted 11 years ago

    Thanks for posting this interesting graph, Mark.  I have a great respect for your advice for hubbers, which helped me a lot early on. (I linked to you in a hub, along with some other hubbers who's advice I appreciated).

    I had hardly got going when the first panda struck last Feb and my traffic graph doesn't quite follow the same pattern as yours, although there are some similarities.

    The subdom switch was a great success overall, I think, although one wonders if Google have attempted to dampen down some of its positive effects subsequently.  My traffic peak was in December.  Since then, things have been up and down, although mainly maybe more down than up.

    Desptite the setbacks and challenges, I am also still smiling though and I certainly haven't fallen out with HP.  big_smile

    1. janderson99 profile image55
      janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      For an interesting take on traffic trend graphs see

      Panda's Outstanding Contribution to Modern Art: Traffic Trend Histories … -Histories

      1. PaulGoodman67 profile image94
        PaulGoodman67posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        That's funny, janderson!  big_smile

  5. Stacie L profile image85
    Stacie Lposted 11 years ago

    I wondered if the best ranked articles were also ad buyers?
    Is "G" only giving preference to those who pay(its alleged) than to good work?

  6. rebekahELLE profile image86
    rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

    That is an interesting graph, and such impressive traffic numbers. Even your peak low on March 27 is higher than most hubbers. But what a traffic loss from your peak pre-Panda! sad
    My graph looks different. And my traffic is nowhere near yours, much, much lower. Pre-panda my traffic was low, the peak appeared on Jan. 26.
    Post Panda, it didn't pick up until Aug. 24. Sub-domains rolled out?
    With normal fluctuations it continued to rise and peaked on Dec. 14.
    Post holiday slump on Dec. 31, then it began to rise and peaked on Feb. 14.
    My low was March 23 then it increased but numbers are lower than Jan.

    But I also don't do this for a living. It must be hard for those who do. Everything seems so unpredictable with how Google works. Thanks for sharing here in the forums, Mark. You've helped so many of us! smile

  7. profile image0
    jenuboukaposted 11 years ago

    Well even though I am a thrill seeker, I want off this ride!  Your overall numbers are impressive, however I can see how this drastically makes an impact on traffic and earnings. 

    And for the "stupid and obvious" question:
    Can someone please explain the whole subdomain here?  I have read about, yet I feel I do not fully grasp it. Thank you.

  8. profile image0
    EmpressFelicityposted 11 years ago

    Getting back to the title of the thread, I've been experiencing a slow decline in views over the last few months, to around 75% of the 1,100 a day peak. It's kind of like the gradual deflation of a ballon after a party. Weirdly, my ad program earnings have stayed the same (lower views but higher CPM). But my Adsense and Amazon are pitiful. I am glad of the beer money I earn here but I'm also glad I don't rely on it.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image57
      Mark Knowlesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah - it has gotten down to beer money unfortunately.

  9. tsmog profile image81
    tsmogposted 11 years ago

    Thank you for the post. A historical perspective from one of the marketing leaders, who has experienced success, offers valuable insight. Hope may seem to be illusive, yet it is as it is. The Darwinism approach of natural selection seems to play a role in the life span of Hubapages - what 5 years old now. It is a learning experience / project with a mission purpose.

    I would say there is success when that is considered. Being both a business venture and a social experiment of sorts hubpages for me personally is a reasonable success, even though I haven't even busted the $50 pay bracket after one year. The benefits of/for hubpages for me personally can be said to be astronomical for a word of grandeur. I mean come on I haven't read a decent explanation what 'Panda' is yet. So, for me being a new hubber - it don't matter.

    I hear talk of trash and that bothers me. Traffic 'to' hubpages is traffic. Maybe it is the fact that I get referred to as 'Trailer park trash' because of where I live. Maybe the connotations attached to 'trash' are both exponential and simply a fact - we all have trash (period). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder maybe.

    The crux of this on a personal note is I have something I can cognitively compare to since Mark published this graph. It is historical. I can now read through the pertinent comments. I can take a weekend "oh wait I forgot I work a 6-day work week" or better put, steal an hour or so here and there to study them - the wise. I don't seem to have the capital to buy a book on amazon about hubpages, analytics, etc. So, I depend on hubs.

    My hope is in about 4 more years I will be in a position like the successful here now are. But, hey, you will be a 10 year old then. Still ahead of me.

  10. Mark Ewbie profile image81
    Mark Ewbieposted 11 years ago

    If you guys want articles about subdomains, Panda ,etc. then I could offer you a variety of sarcastic options, if that wasn't misuse of the forums.

    So I won't.

    I'll give you this instead...

    1. tsmog profile image81
      tsmogposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Funny drawing, but I don't get it? Subdomains seem important since it is relevant to time. Panda, does that mean anything to me. Mark, you are an expert here and consequentially a leader. Though I have near 100 hubs published, many which may be deemed trash, as a follower of sorts, I 'read' "you!" (95)

      I'll be honest. I do not follow you. Why? There is no need, since 950 others do. (awww heck, I'll follow you after this post smile The point being that you receive enough sharing from your followers that you are always at my home location. I enjoyed the stickman article, while gleaning many hidden insights.

      A picture is worth a thousand words. In my hubber to follow excel file I have a note. Marketing with imagery. (name, name, name, Mark Ewbie, name, name . . . You are #4. Why? They are listed from a historical perspective of discovery and not necessarily of importance.

      I mean let's look at the picture. "Gay is prominent" The picture alludes to the male gender. A Panda bear is 'reading' it. The panda bear does have eyes, so immediately I discount not having eyes from my MMPI experience. The correlation is this is  not a comment of sexuality, but the connotation of positioning within a social context of acceptance. What is that social context?

      If I showed this picture to co-workers their reply most likely would be "that's gay." In the workplace I am at, gay is a putdown. It has a similar affect to crazy, stupid, or 'get out-a here.' So, You are putting down Panda in the context of this forum or hubpages?

      I also see the Panda bear is reading. Does that allude to 'Google Bots' and such. The Panda Bear is smiling. Does that allude to 'Panda' likes the odd and unfamiliar? The drawing is a male. Does that allude to exclusivity to male authors? The Panda bear is bigger than the stickman. Does that allude to the struggle of the 'hubpages author? The booklet is held by the Panda Bear. Does that allude to an authority figure and its connotations. The stickman is central and the word 'Gay' is off center. How does left - right brain responsibilities come into play? The nose is almost dead-nuts (race car enthusiast argot) center and the darkest line is there and it too is a smile. The next darkest line, in my perspective, is the Panda Bear's right eye and it too is a smile. The panda bear's arms create a bigger smile, yet it wraps around the booklet. Does that allude to being captured or does that allude to the trail of smiles. (You had fun drawing  this picture, that brings a smile to me - thanks for presenting it!)

      There are two prominent lines drawing the observer's attention. 1) the line from "gay" through the smile, the nose, to right eye. 2) the line from the stickman through the smile, the nose, to the left eye. It creates a cross or 'X.' In this case the center of the cross is the smile or near to.

      But, here, as a newbie, even though I just celebrated one year since my first hub, I really don't understand 'Panda.' All I know is experienced hubbers hate it. Therefore, wanting to belong, I hate it too (Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs).

      So, the message I get from this picture is: forget about 'Panda' and focus on creativity. (oh the eraser marks tell a story too. Looks like someone may have been playing scrabble or creating a crossword puzzle.)

      I have to thank you emphatically for gifting me with what is fun for me. Not necessarily fun for others. Dialogue is a learning experience. Even though you dialogue with me in an open environment was with a picture. from my perspective much was said by you.

      I'll take a look at the forum rules to understand misuse. But, after being in the religion - philosophy section a bit, I ponder the rules. Maybe that is why I don't go there.

      1. Mark Ewbie profile image81
        Mark Ewbieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Tsmog - I am staggered by your response.  That should be a hub possibly (you have permission to use the picture).

        I suspect you are pulling my plonker as we say in the UK.  Although you may also be from the UK, in which case you will already be familiar with that.

        For those who may be a little lost by both my Panda and your queries - I'll try to explain my reasoning.

        One year ago Google made significant changes to their algorithm.  This change was the beginning of events that decimated HubPages traffic.  For about six months.  The guy who was in charge of the Google thing had a nickname... Panda.

        Six months of trying everything under the sun - less adverts, moving adverts, better adverts and even... some quality writing - HubPages tried a fix.  They separated their authors into unique subdomains - like a mini website within the whole hubpages site.

        This worked!  Whereas Google had before hammered HubPages because of the spammy crap now they took each authors subdomain on its own merits.

        Caveat.  It didn't work for everyone, and it's all bad, and, and, and.  For me, it's better.

        During the six months of little traffic I wrote a series of moans about Google and Panda and Matt Cutts using the playground attack of calling them Gay.  I am not anti Gay but it was better than what I wanted to call them.

        So what better to illustrate the articles than a Gay Panda?

        I'll stop now.

        edit:  Forgive me if I didn't cover all your points and no, I'm not putting another picture up.

        1. tsmog profile image81
          tsmogposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Mark, I was having fun, doing what I like to do. The intent was not to place your drawing under the microscope (though it appears that way), the intent was to demonstrate that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I like that pic! It helped me! And, by sharing a view of your drawing I wanted "you" to know I do give attention to your "work(s)" of art, both forms - drawings and writing, in more ways than one.

          Not, trying to play the part of 'big brother' I have set up files to study hubbers. How else may I learn? The challenging part for me is I have no idea of the success of a hub - monetarily. I do know as a writer - person communicating, you have a degree of success. I not only admire but study that. As do I others too! That is relevant to 'me' and the future before me. One other realization I learned. I do not own anything really.

          Some are fast learners and some are not. I finally got a few messages late the first year of publishing. The most important message I received is this. Hubpages defines the old question, "which is greater or the whole is greater than the sum of its parts?"

          Hubpages is not a singular community. It is a multitude of communities. The newbie hubber is both fascinated and overwhelmed by this, in my view. The newbie gets to experience society at their fingertips. Yet, they are hungering and thirst for something. Many an avenue of monetary gain.

          I have a limited income, like many. So, monetary rewards was my motivation. I learned. Am still learning. But, I have the realization that the reality of the monetary rewards I 'hoped' for "just ain't going to happen overnight."

          Again, a thought in passing, continue with your drawings, they "do" count, at least for me they do. And, it only takes one to begin a trend or the herding principal may come into play.

          The hunt or looking for solutions to many questions became a reality. My thought was what better way to explore those questions and discover solutions than writing about them. Yes, I agree some may be considered 'trash,' but again I allude to the beauty is in the eye of the beholder thingy.

          I was appalled learning veteran hubbers have more accounts than one for the purpose of "f******'" with other hubbers, especially new hubbers. And, they are the leadership here? Some are just simply Bullies that hide behind facades trying to police 'their' concept of a society. So,the question becomes doesn't the hubapages community mimic the larger and global society(s) and cultures?

          One may say the dialogue with you offers an epiphany of sorts for me. One, I usually do this type of 'free writing exercise' only on my PC never sharing. I will be criticized for it for sure. Two, I have the power to delete. The observer or reader has more powers - report an offense, chastise, praise, or continue observing. There are more for sure. For me that is what is so 'cool' about hubpages.

          What a vast undertaking by the core leadership at hubpages. I applaud them for even giving a thought to such an undertaking. In an accolade sense, with my personal history, I believe I can at least attempt to contribute to the larger whole now, a direct result of the collective community of hubpages. And the awesome part of that is this - that contribution may not be here, but out there, somewhere as Captain Kirk said. Or, simply I have learned!

          And, importantly I thank Mark who posted this forum entry and every contributor to it past, present, and future. Kinda' like hubpages the very first day they entered into the regions of the unknown. Cool!

      2. janderson99 profile image55
        janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Google likes articles that sound good when read out loud.

  11. amithak50 profile image61
    amithak50posted 11 years ago

    Google panda is a real killer for so many websites ,We should focus on high quality unique content that's the only way to beat panda

  12. Dame Scribe profile image60
    Dame Scribeposted 11 years ago

    I thought they rolled out another update hmm it's not called Panda tongue lol and "G" is now looking at the back links now since they slapped that one site, how many other sites may get affected, which we unknowingly may have used?


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