Have any of you crawled out from under Google Panda and Penguin yet?

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   Bendo13posted 12 years ago

   I'm curious to hear if there are any hubbers, who saw a big drop in traffic after the most recent Google Panda and Penguin updates, have fixed their issues and are getting good traffic again yet?
   
   I think it would be good for us all to know what changes brought about your renewal of traffic, since there's so much confusion as to why we were punished in the first place. 
   
   The only thing I've been doing recently is getting rid of hubs that no longer get that much traffic (or never did in the first place), that have high bounce rates and so on.  I figure if, after Panda+Penguin, those hubs aren't getting much traffic then they might be a big part of the problem.  That way, by the time I'm done deleting, all that will be left on here are the best of my best...
   
   But have any of you seen success with any new changes you've made?

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      relacheposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't change my Hubs post-Panda and my traffic (and earnings) came back.  I didn't change my Hubs in the wake of Penguin, and following whatever it was that Google adjusted with that last Friday, I'm seeing a traffic upswing.
      
      That's probably not the sort of answer you wanted to hear.  BTW, since I don't think we've chatted before, I'll tell you I'm one of the writers here who focuses on my Hub content and skips out on promotions and backlinking.  My feeling is, if you don't use tricks, you can't be busted for using them later.

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      1. 79

         Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't change anything when the original Pandas came about and all was well again whenever the subdomains came into play, but it seems like the new breed and the Penguin and affecting us all differently.
         
         Good to hear at least one hubber is coming back up.  I use to get a handful of links to most of my hubs, after I first published them, but nothing on a mass scale, no blackhat tactics or paid anything... just a few at first and then I'd move onto writing a new hub.
         
         Hopefully we'll all know eventually what will bring our subdomains back up, but for now I'm clearing out the weak hubs and not writing anymore hubs.

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         Bedbugabscondposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Relache, that is exactly why I am afraid to get in to backlinking!

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         rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think there are plenty of hubbers who do the same and have still taken a drop. You've been here longer than just about all of us, so I imagine your hubs have gained authority with organic backlinks. I don't know if it's still as true as it once was, but it's been said that hubs take a few years to rank well. I remember hearing that a lot when I first joined.
         I don't do any tricky backlinks, it seems like such a waste of time and effort.

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         David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I do not backlink either. However, I believe readers have backlinked for me.

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            Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I've never been into backlinking either or using any other means of trying to put my stuff "out there," but still I was hit severely back in August and still have not recovered my traffic or earnings.  I wonder if HP has run its course and will ever be the site I used to enjoy writing on.  I hope, but do not expect, it to ever recover.
            
                                         

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   rebekahELLEposted 12 years ago

   I wasn't affected dramatically by either, but I do read searchengineland to follow what's going on.  There was a blog yesterday about a Penguin recovery. It seems links had a lot to do with the Penguin update. Too many unnatural links pointing back to the site. http://searchengineland.com/first-repor … ery-122700 There are a couple of other good articles there also about possible fixes.
   There was also a Penguin update this past Friday. Did you notice any changes over the weekend?

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   1. 79

      Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't see much of a change this past Friday... things seem about the same as before.
      
      I see that they wiped out half a million links... I hardly have even close to a quarter of those links pointing to my hubs, but if it were as easy as updating a WordPress theme, I'd try to go out and clean up mine as well.  Seems odd that they say they're still building "natural" links... it's not natural if you do it yourself haha... you can only make it LOOK natural.
      
      Plus that site's ranked in the top 5,000 in the world, submitted the "Penguin shouldn't have touched me" form twice and got a lot of press attention when they lost rankings.
      
      Not saying that cleaning up the links won't help, but it kind of seems like it could be a publicity thing, to give others hope, or that they just knew the right people. 
      
      Trying to find an easy way to check the anchor text that was used for all the links without having to check each page one at a time.  Google Webmaster Tools only tells you which words are used in the anchor text - it doesn't tell you how often.

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         2besureposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Google is full of it!  Who knows what they are doing and why.  I am making more money from my blogspot blogs these days.  At this rate I won't be back to my usual income from HP until winter, unless something drastically changes.

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   2. 79

      Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Looking at Google Webmaster Tools I'm thinking that HubPages itself might be part of the problem...
      
      I have 77,752 links coming from HubPages and they point to 681 pages on my subdomain... so that means, on average, every single page I have on HubPages is being linked to 114 times with probably the SAME anchor text!
      
      If that's the case, then I can see why people with a lot of hubs on here, that were getting tons of traffic before, lost it to Penguin.  That really gives an unnatural look to our subdomains.  But at least that's one good thing that looks like it will be fixed with the new layout, since it appears that the new layout interlinks to your own subdomain, and not so much other subdomains.
      
      That's the biggest red flag I see at the moment... the second biggest would be Jumptags - a site I would post links to.   It appears that it gives you a link for every single keyword you enter.  So, if you submitted a link on there and added 20 keywords to it then you're looking at 20 different links to your hub, all using the same anchor text. 
      
      Jumptags only has 11,023 links pointing to 391 of my hubs - so that's about 28 identical anchor text links to each hub.  Not as bad as HubPages is doing for me, but I'm thinking about just deleting that Jumptags account and getting rid of all those duplicates.
      
      EDIT - Someone who works for HubPages, please look into this and aim to fix it in the layout update.  It could very well be part of the problem.

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      1. 79

         Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Looking at one of my sites that wasn't hit by Penguin or Panda I'm not sure if Jumptags is an issue or not.  Jumptags is pointing to just 5 pages on my fitness site and it links to it 2,028 times... so that's 405 links per page, with the same anchor text. (they seem to be nofollow links by the way)
         
         Then there's some other random site that's linking to me 1,701 times but only pointing to 2 pages.  So that's 850 links per page, with the same anchor text.
         
         So, the tags/keywords pages all giving an individual link to the same page might not be the problem... but that's not the case with HubPages... with HP we're getting links from all different subdomains on here, through related hubs and so on - so, I think it should be looked into as a possible culprit.

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            PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I think HP are aware that the site is structured to give maximum SEO in various ways, including multiple linking.  They will certainly have to take actions to react to Panda and Penguin, but they won't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

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               Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               It seems that the new layout has a big shift, when dealing with related hubs, and that would cut down on a lot of these links with the same anchor text.
               
               Not sure if it's a definite culprit, just saying it should be looked into when you see that you get 114 links on average to each hub, from HubPages, you know it's pointing to each page with the same anchor text.

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               1. 96

                  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  There's much more to it, methinks.  The new layout is to be streamlined to lower load times for one thing.  Some of HP's linking practices may not also be obvious to the casual observer.
                  
                  Overall, the main problems can only be solved by HP and Google and the options for the individual hubber are very limited, or non-existent - that's my opinion.  That's why the HP CEO is talking about reaching out to Google.
                  
                  (If you accept the Will Apse argument then you have to believe that pretty much all the 'HubPages Success Stories' [who have been falling for months] are either using large scale illegal linking, or producing very low quality writing when compared to the competition, both of which are difficult to believe for me.)

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                     Will Apseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     'If you accept the Will Apse argument then you have to believe that pretty much all the 'HubPages Success Stories' [who have been falling for months] are either using large scale illegal linking, or producing very low quality writing when compared to the competition, both of which are difficult to believe for me'
                     
                     This is one of the strangest comments I have seen in these forums.
                     
                     It is possible some people have been hit by Penguin on this site, and Penguin certainly punishes spammy back linking practices.
                     
                     But as I keep saying, I think most people seeing sudden traffic falls are being hit by Panda. Panda has nothing to do with links. Panda is all about punishing thin and spammy content.
                     
                     You cannot afford to keep pages that Google determines are poor. Whether they are poor or not in your opinion.
                     
                     As for the steady slide in views many have seen since Jan -- this is obviously nothing to do with Penguin which is too recent a development. It probably has nothing to do with Panda either.

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                  2. 79

                     Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Yeah, a lot of it is out of our hands.  I tried to see which Google animal hit me at the end of April and it appeared that it might have been Penguin but Panda had hit me before so I'm not too sure.
                     
                     I would get some links for every hub, but not on mass scales and the anchor text wasn't always the same... I usually used the title as the anchor text though.
                     
                     But some of the hubs I've been deleting were like movie reviews that never did that well, supplement reviews and stuff like that.  Google might see them as just trying to make sales, even if I did try the supplements or watch the movie.
                     
                     The rest that I've deleted from HubPages are moved to my other sites because they just didn't get much traffic overall, or they get next to no traffic after all the algorithm changes.
                     
                     So, I'm making changes to please Panda... but the top site pointing links at my hubs is from HubPages, so I can't change that myself.  Second highest domain I'm getting them from is Jumptags and they're all nofollow links, and they didn't cause my other sites to fall... so I really don't think that's the issue.
                     
                     I'm curious if the spammy link thing only comes into play if you're talking like 50 links or more all with the same achor text, pointing to the same hubs, that were all gotten on the same days or something like that.  I don't think there was a single hub where I got myself even 20 links pointing to it.
                     
                     So, if my crash is because of spammy linking then that's why I'm looking at that 70k of links coming from HubPages. 
                     
                     What do you think Google's little robots think when they see the majority of the links coming to my subdomain are coming from other subdomains on the same domain?  That's the kind of tactic the internet marketing "gurus" would tell you to use to take advantage of Google and boost your results.
                     
                     But, if my crash is because of crappy content, then my subdomain should rise up again, after the next Panda update.

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                        PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I am doing something similar to you.  We have some control over content, so I am tweaking and moving, but I think we just have to wait and see what HP do with the site and the page redesign.  HP have a pretty good track record, so I am hopeful there will be a fix eventually.
                        
                        I've also opened another HP account.  I think splitting one's hubs between several accounts might be an idea for the future?

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                        1. 79

                           Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Yeah, it might be a better option for people just starting out.  A lot of my content is cemented and staying put because of all the linking and sharing that other people did to get those articles boosted so high.
                           
                           But if you want to venture into other niches, or if you're just starting out, I'd recommend more than one account.  The more targeted the domain, the better... and the targeted links will come accordingly.
                           
                           I just looked again and I may have gotten hit by both Panda and Penguin because I didn't level back out again until after the Panda update... but the April 19th Panda didn't get me. 
                           
                           When you look at the examples Google gives as to what it will target with Penguin, there's no way any of my content comes off like that, I never bought links, never did link exchanges or reciprocal links... but of course they won't show you everything they're looking for.
                           
                           On a side note, I just saw that someone stole a 2 year old article of mine, spun it and uploaded it on an article site back in March.  HubPages duplicate content filter doesn't seem to catch spun content... but yet when I wrote a 5,000 word article that was just "similar" to someone else's content, mine got flagged.  But that dude's spun article, which is the same exact format - just a few words are spun, goes under the radar.

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                        2. 72

                           David 470posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           PaulGoodman,
                           
                           What do you mean that HubPages might try reaching out to Google?

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      2. 85

         rebekahELLEposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I forgot when I posted above about the HP links.  I have a thread here somewhere about subdomain backlinks. I lost over 2000 links recently, many coming from HP, and the PR dropped a rank. I'm still getting traffic, but I wasn't happy to lose the rank.
         http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/97965
         
         I would like to hear some HP staff feedback on this.

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         1. 79

            Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, I think as more and more sections try out the new layout, we'll all see a drop in HP links... but if that is part of the reason why Penguin hit me and many others, it might not have done much to you because I had 10 times the hubs that you did.  Which probably equals 10 times the HP links pointing to my hubs with the same anchor text.
            
            But, if that isn't what caused the problem, then we're all going to see a huge drop once the new layout is implemented completely.

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3. 90

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   I created links when I first started writing online. Not many but maybe a dozen or  so for each of my little keywords in the URL sites. Those sites lost significantly to Penguin. It forced me to finally delete all of my old article directory pages (I enjoyed that, they were trash that I hated producing. I will see how it goes in future.
   
   I still think the big problem on Hubpages is Panda and getting rid of pages Google obviously hates is the best way to go.
   
   You will have to wait for a Panda run, though, to see if it has helped or not.

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   ftclickposted 12 years ago

   So the consensus is a lot of bad unnatural links pointing to your site. It is wide open now for negative seo and Google does not deny it. They want you to pay for Adwords.

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5. 90

   Will Apseposted 12 years ago

   "Yeah, a lot of it is out of our hands."
   
   Fortunately, this is not true.

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6. 75

   Barbara Kayposted 12 years ago

   Mine is just starting to creep back up again. I did some updating on my old hubs. Maybe it is helping.
   
   I moved some of my old pages too that weren't getting any traffic. The funny thing is the one ended up on the first page of Google after I moved it to my website.

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      PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, I am considering moving some more around too.

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   2. 79

      Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I think my articles are going to end up doing better on my own sites, especially since my sites are focused on just one niche.
      
      The cream of the crop will stay on HubPages for now though.
      
      What other updating did you do, Barbara Kay?

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      1. 75

         Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Bendo, I just added a little more to some of my hubs. I think it just has to do with updating them. Who knows, the traffic could go back down again though.

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         1. 79

            Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, perhaps keeping things fresh (through updates and new hubs) can bring things back to life.

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            Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Another thing I did is take some of my links off Xomba. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. I'd like to hear feedback from others on that.

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   janderson99posted 12 years ago

   The times they are a changin'
   
   I don't think now is the time for changing things. Penguin 1.1 just hit and HP stats are sliding again. I am working on other sites for a while until things settle down. HP is a great place for links! There is no definitive advice on what's wrong or how to fix it. You may make things worse! There are far to many variables and the 'playing field' is rocking around like a 'Bat outa Hell'.

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   1. 79

      Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, that's why I don't want to change too much before hearing from a hubber what actually works.  My poor performing hubs didn't pull in much traffic anyway, so once things are back to normal it won't affect my traffic anyway.
      
      But I don't use HubPages to get links, and I think tactics like that are part of the reason why this site is sinking.

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      1. 52

         janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If you write on several places on related topics why not link between them?
         It adds authority to and fro. Hardly a scuppering tactic.

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         1. 79

            Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Because to Google that might be seen as trying to game the system, at the expense of HubPages authority... You said it yourself "The times are a changin'"  and marketing tactics like that are going to do more harm than help, when they're overused.
            
            I've come across SO many internet marketing courses that tell people to come on here and create articles just to get links... and you can bet that almost everyone does.  That's one tactic I always skip over because I value this site, and I don't want to see it become an overused marketing tactic.
            
            Every single tactic that is used to boost a site through some kind of loophole always crashes eventually, and with everyone writing about tactics like that one Google knew what was going on.  And now they're putting a stop to it, but guess who's not stopping with their advice? 
            
            The internet marketing "gurus" will keep on drumming out the advice to come here and post articles until it dies off... and then they'll move onto another tactic, probably destroying other sites in their path.  The only way they stay on top is by changing their tactics before everyone else, so why not keep telling people to do things that are on the way out?
            
            Seems to me that most "gurus" end up packing up all the ideas that are on the way out as their products, make a ton as the tactics die off, and are already onto their next trick while everyone else is following their old moves.

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            1. 52

               janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Guess what - Google ain't as pure as white snow - and Don't do No Evil.
               They manipulate the game for their own benefit. They control all the strings on both sides. We are merely the foot soldiers. Its all a game really.
               
               

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               1. 79

                  Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh, I know they are the puppet masters.  And the more companies they buy, the more control they get.
                  
                  And their ties with the NSA aren't too reassuring either.

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                  1. 52

                     janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Heaven forbid I don't want to start another religion argument, but the Penquin update is so moralistic its rediculous.
                     Repent Ye! Repent Ye!
                     Admit you have been linking with 'bad neighberhoods'
                     Do penance by getting your bad incoming links removed.
                     Purify your site and seek forgiveness for your sins
                     The Google Reconsideration form even has an in-built confessional
                     Admit and confess your sins, and do penance as this is the only way your site can be saved.
                     
                     I hear that Google (the Big G) is planning a new major update called "The Second Coming" after which all SERPS must have immaculate conception.
                     
                     Ah well back to the negative SEO - I hear its a growth industry - any one want a hand?

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                        Bedbugabscondposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I remember when we could all talk about penguins freely without worry that it would turn in to a religious or political debate. Oh, those were the days!

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                           janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Batman started it.

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                        2. 79

                           Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           My head is hot and my feet are cold... ha... he.. hachoo!

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   wrenfrost56posted 12 years ago

   I noticed a slight dip but it wasn't for very long and everything seems to be fine again now.

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   homeprivatetutorposted 12 years ago

   I think my website suffered due to nofollow from ezinearticles.

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    Garrett Mickleyposted 12 years ago

    My hubpages are down but my personal websites are UP UP UP

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    1. 79

       Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, it seems that everyone's personal websites (including my own) didn't get hit at all or are doing better... but yet HubPages sinks.
       
       The funny thing is, on some of my personal sites, in the past, I had paid for some links and have done a number of linking schemes... but they didn't get hit!  So, the whole thing about ohhh they're going after bad linking practices doesn't seem to add up... I think you have to be operating on a mass scale for that to be the case, which I'm not.  Percentage wise, very few of the links coming to any of my sites were gotten by me.
       
       So, again I'm looking at what Google might see as a linking scheme on this site... interlinking is good, and it helps people flow through your site, but look at the stats.
       
       82% of the links pointing to my hubs are internal links!  Almost all of these links are links I didn't get myself, and are due to the site layout. 
       
       The bigger problem lies in the fact that each subdomain is kind of looked at as its own entity... and yet most of those links are coming from different subdomains, and pointing at my subdomain. 
       
       A year or so ago, an internet marketer would look at this layout and say it's brilliant because it boosts every single page up higher...  but Google might look at this and say hmmm, looks like someone's trying to game the system. 
       
       I'm sure it didn't look as bad when the interlinking all came from the base domain of hubpages.com in the past... but then we shared the ups and downs with everyone else.  Now we're responsible for our own ups and downs, BUT we have all these links from other subdomains... on MASSIVE scales, all using the same anchor text.
       
       Think of all comments we leave, as an example, every single one of them points back to our profile with our profile name as the anchor text.  That's our "home base" for our subdomain, and I'd say 99% of the links pointing to that subdomain are going to be with the same exact anchor text.
       
       That's the huge difference I'm seeing between HubPages and everyone else's personal sites.

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          janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          One of my external sites got Penguinised.
          The only links on the site were reciprocal ones to related sites.
          Its a nightmare trying to work out why.
          Its a nightmare trying to get people to remove links to you, many of which were not authorized.
          This site is in a travel area. I am starting to suspect that Penguin may be about downgrading sites that don't pay for Adsense ads, or are not big Brand sites, especially since Google has itself moved into travel.

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             PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I have 4 Google Blogger sites.  Usually they are relatively untouched by Google updates, or they gain, but this time 2 of the have been hit in a major way.  I will have to look at them at some point.  I do think that Google are doing a lot of experimenting at the moment though, so I'm not in any rush to start making radical changes.

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             Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             The fact that they are reciprocal links might be the problem - those were always worth a little less than links pointing to your site without a reciprocal link pointing back to theirs.
             
             I use to pay for AdWords ads for one of my many personal sites, but I haven't done that since last year.  So, I don't know about that theory because my sites are doing the same as before and they don't pay for AdWords ads... and only one of my sites has AdSense ads on them - which pay me, instead of me paying them.
             
             Which is kind of funny when you think about it.  AdSense is an advertising network where you pay for links (through AdWords) that are placed on millions of sites.  And they are attacking blog networks or paid linking schemes..... hmmm.
             
             But back to my theory.... go into your Google Webmaster Tools account, click on your HubPages subdomain, click on Traffic > Links to Your Site on the left and look at the "How your data is linked" list... this shows you which anchor text is used to point to your subdomain, and any other pages on your subdomain.
             
             11% of the links that come from HubPages and point to pages on my subdomain, point directly to my profile; which is the most linked to page on my subdomain.  The number one spot, in the "How your data is linked" list, means that it is the most commonly used anchor text... guess what mine is? 
             
             bendo13 profile image
             
             Which is the alt text used for the profile image on here, every single time it links back to my profile.  So, this post alone gets me two backlinks back to my profile - one link through the picture, one link through the subdomain name.  Which brings me to the second most used anchor text...
             
             bendo13
             
             And when you look at that case study linked above, what was it that they changed that supposedly brought them back up?  They dropped a link that was in the footer of every single WordPress blog that used their theme, because it pointed back to their site with the same anchor text.
             
             I may have located the problem with HubPages... but how do you fix it?  Make them all nofollow? Stop hyperlinking the images?  Stop hyperlinking back to our profiles period?  The latter isn't a great option.  But again, I think the HubPages staff should be looking into this, and put some linking changes into the new layout.

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                janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I'm not quite sure I understand the issue. I have a large number of pages.
                Most of the links point to my subdomain. But I have a large number of internal links to each of my pages, because I do extensive interlinking - and yes the anchor text is the same. But why is this an issue?
                
                I have a different view to some others - that links between subdomains on the one host domain are special type of INTERNAL links and so you would expect many of these links to point to other pages on the host - hubpages.com  - like directory links.  These links sit between, external links other than HP, and internal links between pages within your sub. Lets call them SoS (Sub to Sub links). Provided the SoS are related and are designed to allow readers to view other pages on similar topics I can't see why Google would penalise this. These links are like directory links within the HP domain. I think these are regarded as essentially internal by Google and have a lower value for rating purposes that external links beyond HP.
                
                It would be better if the SoS links used a variety of anchor texts and were in the body of the article, but this is beyond the author's control.
                
                I have always argued against the 5-6 'related???' links added by the HP system to every page, because they are NOT related and can NEVER be related properly. The lousy, flawed 'related' links section uses a list of links, with no text between which has been suggested as bad after Penguin. This is in HP admin control - if its causing a Penguin penalty then hopefully they will remove it. It does generate 2 internal and 3 SoS links to each page and so it may contribute to PR. Google may have downgraded the value of these links which could have caused reduced traffic.
                
                I don't think a Penguin hit would be applied for SoS links using the same anchor text. Has anyone got a message in Webmasters about this???

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                   Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   It's just something I noticed and I don't think internal links would be pentalized as badly, but it could be seen as a linking scheme to Google... especially when, for almost all of the subdomains, the #1 spot they are getting links are from other subdomains... rather than other domains... and the #1 and #2 most used anchor texts for each subdomain are pretty much the exact same anchor text, pointing to the exact same page.  And all the links we get to our actual articles are linked to from other subdomains, using the exact same anchor text.
                   
                   "bendo13 profile image"  would still help me rank for "bendo13" because it's part of the anchor text... and when you search on Google for bendo13, my HubPages profile is ranked #2... what is ranked #1?  My YouTube profile with the same profile name!  Have I ever linked to my YouTube profile, with bendo13 in the anchor text?  NOT ONCE.  So, the only reason that is the #1 ranking page for that keyword is because of the comments I've left on others videos, and the link back to my profile with bendo13 as the anchor text... and because Google owns YouTube.
                   
                   The only reason I see the anchor text as an issue is because they're going after "spammy" linking techniques and one of the biggest things you have to watch out for when getting your own links is that you vary the anchor text you use, otherwise it doesn't look natural. 
                   
                   If you got 100 links to a page, and were feeling a little lazy, you might use the same exact anchor text - and Google would notice.  But if 100 people got a link back to that same page, there's no way that they would all use the same anchor text, and some might just link back to the page with the bare link.
                   
                   But yes, I agree that the related hub thing needs changed... It should be changed in the new layouts so that it only links to YOUR related hubs, and not someone else's.  Which keeps your internal links truly internal to your subdomain and lowers your bounce rate.  And probably should have your summary listed below each link.
                   
                   I haven't gotten that email about unnatural linking, that I've heard others have out in the wonderful land of the internet.  I wonder if that message would go to HP headquarters instead?  In fact, I haven't gotten that email for any of my personal sites either.

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                      janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      The new layout gives you 2-3 links to your own sub provided you have hubs in the same group. The old layout is less obliging, especially for broader topics, unless you cheat !! with the tags!!

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                         Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         Well, that's helpful then... but it does look pretty ugly as it stands now; just being linked titles.
                         
                         Not sure what the big G thinks about that, but I have heard that a lot of people are seeing less traffic to hubs that use the new layout.

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                            lrohnerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            And a lot of people are seeing stable traffic to them.

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                               Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                               Well, that's good.
                               I wasn't hoping the new layout wouldn't be a total flop.

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                                  PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                  HP will test out what layout works best overall and go with that, I'm sure.  Some hubbers have had traffic drops and are blaming the layout, I'm not at all convinced by that.  A slimlined page is the way forward.  Because that's what the big G wants.

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                                     Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                     Hopefully Google will lose some of their sway over the SERPS they now have.  My Bing and Yahoo traffic is much better and I hope they knock the big G down a few notches.  Having Google rule the net is terrible for everyone concerned.
                                     
                                     
                                                                          

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                                        Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                        I heard Facebook is working on a search engine.......... just kidding!
                                        
                                        Haha, that would be quite a battle though.
                                        It'd probably be sucky personalized results based on what you click like on and what your friends like though.

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    molometerposted 12 years ago

    I guess I must have been lucky as my traffic is going from strength to strength. I have only been here 8 months so maybe I missed the earlier carnage that some hubbers suffered.

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       PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Some of the traffic problems do seem to be hitting hubbers with older hubs (hubs that were posted before the switch to subdomains) disproportionately.  It seemed that way to me anecdotally, but then Paul E seemed to imply as much in a recent hub.
       
       I have started a new account.  There's no point posting anything on this account, which is wallowing in the mire.  I'm hoping that HP will sort out the problems, if they don't, then I might even start shifting old material into newer hubs?  (That's the last resort!)
       
       I personally wouldn't have more than 50-100 hubs on one account if I was starting over.  Too many eggs in one basket otherwise.

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          Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yeah right!  Paul E gave a bit of advice to several of us who were hit much earlier than you, Paul.  You, along with Paul suggested it was something we did to cause such an effect.   Both of you were wrong and a bit insulting in the process. So I don't pay much attention to either of your suggestions anymore.  I'm sure you understand my point. 
          
          
                                                       

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             janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             What Paul E said in another thread  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/98540
             
             was
             
             "We were looking at some data last week and hubs do tend to peak earlier than they did a few years ago.  They seem to peak between two and three years old now.  That can change pretty quickly.
             
             One thing I've noticed is Google seems to have twisted the freshness dial up quite a bit from where it was - this favors new content.  My gut is it will get dialed back a bit."

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                Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I could care less what Paul said.  If he knew everything we would not have suffered so much loss of traffic and earnings over the past year or so.  And this site would have policed the spam and misleading hubs which garnered lots of money for HP.  As it was, those who actually contributed well written and researched articles were punished along with those who were allowed to put pure junk on this site. 
                
                It doesn't take a genius to see where this was leading to.  Remember when those terrible Indian "auntie" hubs were continually being published here, along with those misleading fake dotcom titles?  HP was just asking for a slap even though many of us were warning of such bad things coming from them.  Sorry, I don't trust the PTB here anymore.
                
                                                         

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                   Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Plus you have to look at Google's search results now a days..
                   
                   They have that crappy "instant" search as the default, which I don't think is the same exact results you'd get if you turn it off... I never turn that thing on, I hate it.
                   
                   Then you have people who will select to get results that are based on things they like, things they've looked at before and so on... I never turn that thing on either.
                   
                   Then you have people like me who don't use either thing and are seeing the true results.
                   
                   So, it's almost like you could have 4 different collections of search results, depending on your settings
                   -instant without personal results
                   -instant with personal results
                   -personal results without instant
                   -no instant and no personal results
                   
                   And that's not counting if you choose to filter the content as well.
                   So, on top of the algorithm changes, we also have these trendy new additions that make it hard to show up on page one, when you have 4 options on what you want to view.

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                      janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Good points - you can add the 'country of origin' filter

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                         PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         "Freshness" is definitely a major factor at the moment.  There are some major political battles going on at the moment between Google and others, but maybe that will be reined back in at some point, like Paul E says.  In the meantime, I'm gonna try to be "fresh" and see how that goes!  :-)

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    Randy Godwinposted 12 years ago

    The heck with freshness.  Some subjects do not re-freshen easily, and besides, I have no desire to keep rewriting my older hubs just in hopes it MAY make a difference to the big G.  I'm sick of trying to appeal to THEIR obscure desires and feel they are only interested in garnering money at any cost. 
    
    I'm pulling for Yahoo and Bing to catch up with them and to learn a few lessons in ethics from Google's eventual downfall.  I'm sure HP has learned a few themselves, but this remains to be seen.  Personally, there's very few here who I pay much attention to during these confusing updates. 
    
    
                                         

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       Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yours might not need it Randy - but I find some ugly old pages of mine that benefit from changing the layout some....and I used to max out amazon ads...which is just dumb and ugly, reducing that stuff seems to be beneficial!!!

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          Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I get your point Wesman, but even when HP clamped down on too many Amazon ads for the amount of words or excess links I didn't have to edit any hubs.  I've heard so many theories here from those supposedly "in the know" who were actually "just shottin' in the dark" I pay little attention to them anymore.  Especially those who crowed about their lack of traffic loss but now find themselves in the same boat I formerly sank in.
          
          But does this prevent them from still acting as though they know better than anyone else?  Of course not, as you can see for yourself.  They are amusing though! 
          
                                               

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             Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Randy have you been de-sandboxed yet?
             
             Product hubs are going the way of the Thylacine, it seems....if the Googlenazi keeps fucking us, I'm going back to backlinking!

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                Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Not that I can tell, Wesman.  It's almost as if I started all over with my traffic slowly rising as it did when I first joined HP.  Personally, I feel these type sites are headed south if Google remains such a power on the net.  But then, I'm no expert and certainly not anyone to look to for advice! 
                
                
                                                   

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             Marisa Wrightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I guess I'm one of those, Randy - though I think I can claim my advice still stands, because I told you to take all your "outdoorsman/RV" Hubs and make your own website specialising in that field.  Everyone is saying the future of writing online is "authority sites", meaning you need to specialize.
             
             So I still strongly recommend you get your big boy's pants on and just do it!  You say yourself, you've given up trying to second-guess why Google doesn't like your sub-domain. Do you really think it's going to recover all by itself?   Most webmasters who've recovered from Panda have done it by moving their material to a new site and starting again. 
             
             I know you don't want to lose the comments, but I've thought up a solution to that on my ballet blog - I've turned the best questions into blog posts, like this:
             
             http:// pointeshoesonline.com/4484/how-to-dye-pointe-shoes/
             
             It is a bit of work, but I ended up enjoying it because I found myself amplifying my original answer because I had the extra space.

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                Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I have a website now....wesmantoddshaw.com....go figure.  I know I could do acoustic stringed instruments exclusively.....its a lot to learn....

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                Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Well, there is a way to give advice without taking a superior attitude, Marisa.
                You've always tried to help others without taking this stance so no, I wasn't referring to you.  I seem to recall you saying your views here have fallen too, so join the crowd.
                
                My "big boy pants" are shorter now that it's hot weather, but really, I don't lose sleep over the goings on in the content writing world.  But I do have other irons in the fire, I just don't advertise them anymore.
                
                Not really interested in having my own sites, though I do have a place or two I write a few things.  I have other means of making money although I do like to justify my time writing in some manner.  Mostly, I write for fun. 
                
                                     

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       Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Another way you could keep your subdomain "fresh" is just by writing new hubs... but that's advice I'm not taking myself; I'm not writing on here again until the traffic returns.

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          janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I'm experimenting with adding 5-6 short external RSS to add a dash of freshness and potentially authority boost by refering to expert sites for the topic. Duplication should not be an issue as its only a small percentage of the total text. Using highly specific sources should avoid the penguin. So far no sign of penalty.

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             Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Yeah, I use to do something similar when HP still had a news capsule - it helped change things up a little... and if you get a lot of comments then you stay on the fresh side too.

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       CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       In a way these threads are becoming very much like the God threads over in the Religious forums, as everyone is trying to work out what the great Google god wants, with many claiming to have the only inside track and that if you don't follow it you're doomed, when the reality is that nobody knows the unknowable.  Come to think of it, they are both big G's?
       
       Well I don't want to write for the whims of an unpredictable deity, so I am officially spitting my dummy out into the sandpit (sorry Randy you should have jumped out of the way quicker! ) and from now on I'm going to write what I want, the way I want.  A few keywords and the odd backlink were one thing, but this is getting ridiculous.
       
       And before anyone mentions earning money, I'm not earning any anymore anyway, so I'm just not going to worry about all this stuff as there are way too many hoops to jump through and just get back to enjoying my writing.

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          Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, in a way this makes sense.  But my "faith" in HubPages is gone now.  Not only in how Google see it, but in the people running this joint.  For over a year now we've heard all sorts of excuses by TPTB here as to why this site has been downgraded and at this point I have trouble taking anything they say seriously.  Especially with some of the actions they have taken lately.
          
          Like you, I'm not going to worry about what HP says we need to do, Cynthia.  I don't believe them anymore.  It's just not worth the trouble!
          
                                               

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             CMHypnoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Not signing up for Community Editing beta testing then Randy? I can think of quicker ways to improve site quality like just deleting every hub posted by any hubber who has been here for longer than 6 months and has a hubber score of 40 or lower
             
             http://hubpages.com/authors/best/?page=20405
             
             Just checked the hub from the first hubber on the page and I had to flag it for copied content - the hub is 3 years old, so this is not all new ordure?
             
             At least we're a cool crowd in the sandpit and we all stand our rounds!

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    Marcy Goodfleischposted 12 years ago

    I have wondered whether having dates listed in the comments section can age a hub. Even if the content is as current as available information, dates could (maybe?) work against authors by making a hub look less 'fresh'?

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       Bedbugabscondposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       This causes trouble for me. My topic is one of those topics it seems difficult to get people to comment about. I truly appreciate thous who have. In a moth I have made it to a level 4 commented, participated on hubs and the q and a, and still only have 45 comments over 11 hubs, many of those from being voted for as a hubnugget. I fear that the lack of comments, and their age is not going to be good for me.

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    wordscribe43posted 12 years ago

    Well, I just met the ever-so-attractive black and white beast myself .  Not sure which black and white beast it is:  Panda or Penguin, meh!  Who cares?  Overnight my views have dropped to pitiful numbers.
    
    I suppose I could try to figure out why, but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to nor do I have the energy.  I will say I haven't written a hub in a while because I've been really busy in my "real" life.  So I do wonder if inactivity was one of many factors.
    
    Truth is, I am OVER IT!  I went through it a while back and did recover.  But, I have a bad vibe about this one.  Of course I will wait it out, which basically just means I won't be moving my material for a while.  But, I don't have the energy to make heads or tails out of it at this point.  So, I won't be editing, deleting, updating or anything else.  Seems futile...  Gonna work on my ebook for now.

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       Daytime Divasposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Exactly a week ago my traffic dropped 90%.  As of today it's almost entirely recovered.  I did nothing but wrote a new hub....

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          PaulGoodman67posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          I doubt that inactivity would cause a crash.  It might cause a gradual decline.  It might depend on the topic, however.

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             Bendo13posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Yeah, I think if you write on evergreen topics and people are still sharing and commenting on your hubs then you should be fine.
             
             That would keep you relevant in Google's eyes.
             
             Some of my most trafficked hubs are about 5 years old and I rarely ever make any changes to them, so that should tell you something.

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    WorkAtHomeMumsposted 12 years ago

    It's depressing isn't it. I'm still nowhere.

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    Jewelsposted 12 years ago

    I have a few hubs that were on page 1, went to around 10 at the height of the Google/Panda upheavals.  They are now back on page 1.  It took a few months.  I believe the reason for the fall was because all Hub articles were downgraded to substandard.  So once the articles were proven to be of good enough quality and what people wanted to read they climbed back up.

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    Steve Lensmanposted 12 years ago

    After being thrown at the back of the google queue a few months ago my hubs have recovered 400% in viewing figures the past couple of weeks I'm happy to say.
    
    For instance my Dr. Strangelove hub was nowhere to be seen on the google search engine in April, now it's on the 2nd page on google.co.uk, not bad considering there are 2 million results for that title. Thank you google.

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    jasmith1posted 12 years ago

    For anyone who has had a drop in Google searches, have you found a way to get them back, even a little? All my google traffic has disappeared and I am not getting any right now.

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    webclinicianposted 12 years ago

    Many things was said about google but there is no point worrying as they don't say much about their criteria apart from what we already know.
    I didn't notice the difference in my site, it is still in the first page.

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    jasmith1posted 12 years ago

    If there is anything that has helped others, it would be useful to know.

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       Barbara Kayposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       I updated some of my hubs and it seems to have helped, but it still isn't what it once was, not even close.

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          jasmith1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks Barbara. I've been doing a bit of that too, but like you it isn't the same as it was and still nearly no google organic traffic. It does feel a lot like shooting in the dark!

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       janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Its impossible to know what works.
       I have taken the approach that Google loves itself.
       I have Google-plused all my hubs
       I have added summary posts to Blogger
       Has it worked? Don't know.
       My traffic has fallen 20% lately but stabilised for now.
       Good luck!

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          jasmith1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

          lol! One thing I read recently is not to G+ your own posts (i'm not sure if it's the same for hubs)  - just thought I'd mention it. Good luck with everything and thanks for your feedback.

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             janderson99posted 12 years agoin reply to this

             Where did your read this? I can't find anything about this.

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                jasmith1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                I can't remember but I'll have a search around for it again. It stuckk in my mind as I had done it too!

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             Bedbugabscondposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             I have been thinking about g+, I will have to do my homework I guess.

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    Lindy's Worldposted 12 years ago

    Alright, Google needs to stop with the animal parade.  My traffic was finally starting to grow.  I wasn't getting thousands of views a day but I was getting over a hundred a day. Surprise! Now I am lucky to get 8 a day.  This happened overnight.  I have deleted some of my hubs, I have no backlinks (I don't even really know how to do that), and every now an again twitter my hubs.  What do I do now?

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       Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Who knows?  Certainly no one here can tell you.  Google rules the net.  Down with Google!
       
       
                                          

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          Lindy's Worldposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Was a fan but not so much now.  sigh!!!!!

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