Boys fighting in school

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   aka-djposted 14 years ago

   I heard of a story just yesterday about a boy who got into a fight over a lunch table at school. The two got stuck into each other, and one ended up in hospital, and later died. I don't know if he was the attacker or the victim, but in any case, one is now dead.
   With all the evolutionary hype we hear on these forums, I would like to know what is wrong with this incident.
   We keep hearing about survival of the fittest, natural selection and all, so here it is being played out in real life, between two rival teenage males. One wins, one looses. It's only "natural". Natures way of weeding out the weak.
   I doubt very much that either boy's religion was the motivating factor, and the justification for the death. The whole community was rocked by this incident, (as was I when I heard about it). Can someone please help me understand? I am having a really hard time seeing it from the evolutionary worldview standpoint.

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      frogdroppingposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm confused. Are you saying that from a religious aspect you don't understand why it happened? Or that you need someone that's none-religious to use this horrible event to back up their understanding of how and why we're here?
      
      Either way - it's a horrible basis to use in which to prove anything.

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      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        how can you don't understand something so obvious ? Maybe being a born again christian you're too small to understand ?  When where you re-born , if I may ask ??

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      Drew Breezzyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Do you mean natural selection? Evolution is a completely different matter.

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2. 63

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Shouldn't this go to Religion forums?

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      aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nah. It happened in school.

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well, even though this happened in school, your question is geared towards yet another evolution vs creation fight.

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            aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ye.So what? Even if I didn't make it so obvious, most people know my position. Chances are high that I would have got the same or more of a response there. It's not a fight I want, but some answers to real world happenings, I was asking for.
            Anyway, How do YOU see this? Is it right or is it wrong, and why?

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      Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No

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3. 59

   Mark Knowlesposted 14 years ago

   Evolution is a scientific theory not a philosophy.
   
   What are you not understanding exactly?

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      Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Geez in come the hub police you guys are so funny

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      aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      No. FACT. (Remember?)
      Is it wrong, or right? WHY?

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No - the FACT is that evolution happens. the theory is WHY and HOW.
         
         Survival of the fittest is part of the THEORY.
         
         It is neither wrong or right. It is a FACT that one boy (presumably accidentally) killed another boy during a tussle in school. Nothing wrong or right about the FACT that human animals  compete for domination.
         
         It may be that he did intend to kill him, in which case our society will probably judge the boy wrong and lock him up. Perhaps it will be judged an accident.
         
         Are your irrational beliefs some how proven wrong by the FACT that humans compete for domination within a group and this is a proven example of evolution in action?
         
         Oh dear........

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            aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh but it's RELIGION you always blame for killing. So, by you, it's rational, and therefore acceptable, that this goes on.
            Oh dear.....

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               Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               dj - your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. I never said any such thing about rational and acceptable.
               
               You started this thread with the express intention of having a fight. And you are claiming the high moral ground?
               
               Seriously dude - you need to think about what that says about your religion.

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                  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You still haven't explained why it's right or wrong.
                  If you accept that it goes on as part of the natural process of "domination", you automatically make it "acceptable".
                  If you don't, then say so, and explain why, please.
                  As for ignorance, you point out the obvious, but do nothing to educate me.

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                     Madame Xposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Do you really not know why this is "right or wrong"? Or do you just want to argue with MarK?

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You are being willfully ignorant right now.
                     
                     You are the one saying that it is acceptable. I made no such statement, nor do I believe it is acceptable.
                     
                     I understand that your religion teaches you to twist what other people say in an effort to make it appear as though they said something that some how proves your case that you are better then them.
                     
                     Sorry - my moral code does not allow me to do that. It is against my principals.

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                        aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        This answers NOTHING !

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           It answers everything. You just prefer to ignore the answers. Oh well.
                           
                           You already have all the answers I guess.

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                              aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              You spelled principles wrong too!
                              PS, where do your "moral code, and principles" come from?

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   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   Man thats sad, truly it is!!
   Remember that old song by Sammy Davies Jnr 'Dont Blame It On The Children'
   Maybe youre too young,but basically its a combination of not learning coping skills at a younger age IMO..combine that with Anger ,and it always gonna be a 'sleeping volcano'
   
   I have 3 sons. and I tried to teach them that it takes more guts and willpower to walk away from a fight ,than to committ to one, however my youngest was involved in bullying at school and honestly deep down I wanted to tell him  Go head smack the crap outta the other smart ass kid...but I didnt ,couldnt see how long term that would help my son much.

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5. 61

   Helen Caterposted 14 years ago

   One of my sons was invloved in a school fight. The other lad had benn asking him to fight all day, and outside the gates the lad took a punch at my son. My son is a really big lad, and has never been involved in a fight before. He has been brought up with older brothers whom play fight lots. My son punched the other boy and knocked him out cold. Later that evening the police arrived and arrested him as the boy in question had his teeth put through his cheek and under went plastic surgery. The police questioned my son for hours asking if he used a bat, or was he a boxer, and so on. Eventually they decided my son was completly in the right to defend himself, as the boy had thrown the first punch. I would have felt sick if the outcome was like your story..but can't help thinking kids have to defend themselves, else it could have been the other way around.

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      Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Lol that was one helluva punch , I agree though , there has to be a balance and sometimes standing up for yourself ,when authorities wont makes it even harder to be non-violent for sure.

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   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   What a terrible system for an educated species to adapt surely?
   
   Thank god Im not an animal AND I feel for those parents,wonder what they think of your analogy, hmm

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      aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Gee wizz, I hope they check out my profile page.

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         Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry was responding to Marks anaology. Interesting but theories are irrevelant when ya kids dying or hurt.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            What analogy exactly? Do you even know what the word means?
            
            Whether you like it or not, animals (including us) fight for domination within a group.
            
            It is a crying shame that we have never moved on from that. And your ridiculous beliefs are a big part of why we have not.
            
            See any religion discussion and how many competing religions there are arguing and fighting over who has the best god.

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               Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               So far Mark you are the only one attacking and critizing. Ive given up on the amount of times either you or your cronies jump on my back for "Christian principles" when the post isnt even about anything religious
               
               Guess its become a habit.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  This post isn't about anything religious? Are you serious?
                  
                  I love your passive aggressive approach though. It reminds me of my mother. She is always getting attacked for no reason. Odd that.

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   Madame Xposted 14 years ago

   This doesn't have anything to do with either religion or evolution - but two boys who had never learned, or been taught self control. Who kills someone over a lunch table for Pete's sake. One of them should have had the balls to walk away. Neither did. That says more about the lack of self discipline we teach our kids to have than anything else.

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8. 0

   ralwusposted 14 years ago

   I personally see no link to evolution or religion to this whole thing, the school incident. It's just kids learning to be men. They are full of testosterone and things escalate. This is all silliness and nothing more than a ploy to create another useless argument. Really no different than the school boys fight.

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9. 74

   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   Analogy/Coherance
   means that the cause and effect relation is already established for a similar exposure or disease and/or the relation coheres with existing theories
   
   Yes I used the word correctly now its playtime,Ive flown the coop.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Buy yourself a decent dictionary woman. You cannot even spell coherence for goodness' sake.

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10. 66

    aka-djposted 14 years ago

    Thanks all for your comments.
    Did you really read what I wrote?
    For heaven's sake ! ! ! !
    And I get accused o being weak in the english language.

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    misterspookposted 14 years ago

    So what could have been a rather good discussion about inner-school violence and how we can deal with it has devolved (snicker) into a thread devoted to trying to tear down a scientific theory.

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12. 74

    Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

    Violence breeds violence thats all I gotta say about that!
    
    And it comes under many guises, from verbal abuse to physical.
    
    From homes to schools ,to the courts and in the prisons.

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13. 61

    awsydneyposted 14 years ago

    "Nothing comes from violence, nothing ever could, for all those born beneath an angry star, lest we forget how fragile we are"
    ~ Sting

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