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In certain cultures, men assume control over wives. What is history of pattern - is it successful?
I don't think it can ever be considered "successful" when someone manages to control someone else, or their life. But, whether it's "considered 'successful'" and whether men have been successful at doing so can be two different things. Also, though, I don't think it's limited to "some cultures" either. Some women have more trouble with this than others do, but I know that as an American girl and now woman, I've spent most of my life either fending off, or unsuccessfully trying to fend off, the attempts of others to a) control my life, b) have some say/opinion about my choices, c) stop me from making choices they don't approve of, d) telling me things I already know (as if I'm a kid or a non-person - or something), and e) essentially feeling they are somehow "over" me (whether that's because they're a man, they're older than I am, they're taller than I am ("everyone knows" that short people "must be" children).
More and more recently, I've seen more about how people who try to control others and/or who are abusive to others, do so because they "don't see a person" when they look at the other person. It comes from a) ego, b) ignorance, and c) not having become mentally/emotionally mature enough to have grown beyond biological hard-wiring enough to get past equating a loud voice and big shoulders with "being more of a person" and equating a soft voice and narrow shoulders with being "less of a person".
A lot of people often why why, when there are women like Oprah Winfrey and, say, Hillary Clinton, all women haven't managed to get themselves into powerful positions. In Western cultures, we tend only to see the minority of women who have not been successfully kept down and/or silenced. The people nobody knows exists are those women who have been successfully silenced, stopped from living lives in keeping with their strength, power, and potential; and have even been punished/penalized for showing strength and independence that someone who expected control and "say" saw as "inappropriate".
People so often over-simply the story of Cinderella by thinking it's about "waiting for a prince". Prince aside, the world (including the Western world) is still full of perfectly capable, skilled, strong, and smart Cinderella's who have been stopped from "going to the ball" by people who saw them as nothing more than existing to serve someone else's purposes (whether that be "ego purposes" or other purposes)..
Men controlling wives completely tends to make for a society that stagnates. Progress is dulled, hamperd. The ugliest and most brutal of present day societies happen to be those where women have no say and are not well cared for or respected.
They are places where you have too many children being born. Also poverty, pumped up religious nonsense, rape, ritual killings and lack of good prospects for the future.
Strangely enough, in such societies the men also suffer from their ignorance, lack of forward motion in terms of using their little grey cells, lack of good food and also good housing. If you really want to live in such places all I can say is good luck to you. You're going to need it.
There are of course societies where the men think they are in control of everything but are, in fact, sharing this control with their women. 19th Century Britain and Australia were a bit like that. Parts of Australia are still a bit like that.
As for history, I can really only give you the history of the west. There was a time when women of knowledge, wise-women were seen as a danger to the Christian faith. Many were killed as witches, their knowledge of medicine gone with them. What many of them knew we can only guess at today. Of course today in the west women can practice medicine and the world is better for this. I have met a number of fine female doctors.
Writing started off as a man's thing. Then certain women had novels they had written published under male names. There came a time, however, when women like Ursula Le Guin were asked to put their SF books under a male name. Some did so. Le Guin refused to go along with the idea. Nowadays Le Guin, always under her real name, is considered to be one of the greatest of the SF writers of the 20th Century.
There was a time when there were very few female scientists kicking around. Today the top spider expert in Australia happens to be a woman scientist.
In Australia women dress as they please. If I were to demand my sisters dress as I would wish them to and put on a real serious face on such a demand they would burst into laughter. Would I really want to be in a position to tell my women folk how to dress and how to behave? No. I have my sisters and a fist full of nieces I care for too much and also respect too much for that. I am proud to say two of them are university trained and one of them will soon be a teacher.
I do, however, resent people coming to my country and demanding the women of Australia bow to some foreign dress code on our beaches. Not on I say!
I commend your knowledge on this issue and writing ability. Thanks.
Rod: Your essay sounds like something that is taught in Misandry 101 courses at the local university.
Thanks brake12. If you've learned something C.J. that's great too. As for Misandry, forget it. I'm a bloke and I don't hate myself. I don't hate women either. Not sure what you have against women wearing bikinis on beaches. Very strange.
Rod: I do not recall having said anything about bikinis on beaches, but since you asked...here goes nothing. In my mind, bikinis are nothing more than sexy beach bras and panties. Women wear more clothing to bed each night than they do at the beach.
Okay! So you don't like women wearing bikinis. Thought so! You'd rather see them go to the beach wearing black tents with peep holes. Not good swim wear, they could drown in heavy clothes. Very strange.
The "pattern" goes all the way back to the beginning of human hunter-gatherer societies and is well documented from the earliest written histories to the present. I think the state of the world today speaks volumes for the collective failure of control by TAWMs--Tight Assed White Men.
The men in my husband household have full control over wives. Whatever the men says are the final decision. Women are not allowed to vote, object or voice their opinion. Its the chinese culture.
I will always err on the side of the Biblical standard and to hell with the rest.
Biblical standard? Lots of interpretations so lots of standards.
Rod: The Bible is not that hard to figure out for those who do not have a vested interest in making it say what they want it to. Why should I care what others think of Holy Scripture or even if they understand it? It's their problem...not mine.
So what is your vession of the Biblical standard then, C.J?
In my native country,there are many communities each with different cultures.Cultures where men are dominant are very slow in achieving progress,this is evidenced by the very few numbers of girls admitted into institutions of higher learning,teenage pregnancies,extreme violence against women and a general societal apathy.I think women cannot perform their motherly duties well under yolk and as they say..You can only be a good mother if you are WHOLE
I do not condone or endorse any community, religion or system that abuses or oppresses women or children. Everyone should be cherished, loved and cared for.
So Livingtwentyfirst you're not in favour of a culture where a girl going to school is likely to get shot. I agree. Yes, mothers are kept ignorant children grow up ignorant.
LTF: I cannot see proper justification for saying, "Cultures where men are dominant are very slow in achieving progress." I mean, this statement completely confounds and contradicts all known facts. Sounds like evil, not men, is the bane of existence
Look at the world you live in CJ. Where you have women being stoned to death because they were raped and therefore had sex out of marriage you will find poverty sporned by ignorance. Where everyone get a fair go great strides are made.
Keep watching, Ron. You may see the United States go down in flames for allowing women to do as they please. 80% of divorces in America are filed by women, mothers murdered 50 million babies in 40 years, mothers commit 60% of all child abuse, etc.
The standard of living for both men and women in the USA is still much higher than in many parts of Pakistan, India and Indonesia. Overpopulation causes slum conditions and lack of education causes overpopulation. Thinning the herd isn't so bad.
Some people consider mating is a ritual like the vulcan from star trek but for some reason i do believe men controlling their wives would not be to bad. I think I personally prefer it that way. If you haven't notice since women right is climbing the ladder society sort of falls apart when it comes to divorce rates. Instead of you do this and that women can now choose and because of that it leave men mind boggled and unsatisfied which leads to cheating. their is a pattern i believe for example the old days women had to do stuff whatever the men said. one side will always win regardless therefore settling the problem to a stop. If you dont stop you'll probably just continue divorcing countless marriages
I agree with you adorablebaby. Every society that's allowed its women unrestrained freedoms and took the authority from their husbands, have always destroyed themselves from within. The Lord intended for a good man to govern his wife and family. :0)
but if the man truely love his wife he would show it by only having one wife while other are able to have more, like other cultures but that just how i would consider who is a good loving husband to a selfish one.
Adorablebaby: I do not think I could love two women at the same time and I don't know how other men can. I agree with you that to love a woman fully, a man must reserve his love, affection and attention for her and her alone. :0)
This is an awesome question. It's a bit difficult to answer though. Reason being is because since the beginning of time, the man was the "ruler" of the house. It seems that things went rather smoothly in that fashion until only this past century feminists decided to fight this concept. And let me just say that nobody needs to "control" anybody, women should have just as much say as a man in most situations, but just like the woman is better at some areas of life, as are men.
Where should this responsibility lie? I couldn't answer that because I'm not educated enough to give a poignant answer. What I do know, is what I've experienced and witnessed within this world since I've been born. As I stated earlier, both men and women should have equal say about certain things in the marriage. At the very least, whichever person is better at running a certain aspect of the marriage, so be it. But, are men better at some things? Do women need to be "tamed" a bit as not to run errant in life? Do men need to be tamed a bit as not to run errant? Are women better at some things in a marriage? I say yes to all of these questions.
So, do I think a man should control the entire marriage? Um, NO!! But are they better hunters/gatherers (as JimTXMiller says) and are they possibly better with finances? Well, typically that is true, yes. Are the women typically better at running the household and taking care of the family? Yes, absolutely.
I agree with you on many count, JamieD, but I also know (from a Biblical standpoint), that the Almighty gave man the authority to rule over his home and this includes his wife and children as well. The Federal government has now displaced most men.
Well I guess, for me, it's a good thing times have changed because after I've been screwed over and abused by so many men, I will not allow a man to rule over me. But I do realize God knew what he was doing.
JamieD: Have you ever considered making better decisions regarding the neanderthals you allow into your life? You say you've been screwed over and abused many times by men, but what have you done to stop that from happening? Try a good man for once.
Actually yes, since I've found God, I changed my life and my choice in men. And I do allow him to make most of my decisions because he is better at it than me:) I've got the best man in the world, for me, and I'm not letting him go. Thanks
I wish you the very best, JamieD. And, I congratulate you on turning your life over to Christ Yeshua and Almighty YHWH. That is the best decision you will ever make and its ramifications will be known in this lifetime and in the life to come.
I don't know much about the "history of pattern" but I do not think that anyone should have to be controlled. In a loving marriage, two people work together to raise their children, keep a home and go through the ups and downs. I have personal experience with a step-father that has "controlled" my mother and I have seen nothing but negative response from this. My mom is so emotionally frail she's basically afraid of her own shadow now. Now, my father left my mother for another woman and she was left to raise 4 kids by herself, so for me personally, to see a woman who worked very hard to provide and put herself through college and then go into this dismal relationship, she took about 200 steps backwards.
I am not particularly a women's rights activist but I think there is a middle ground here and in a loving marriage, two people can work together to get things accomplished. I think there are extreme examples on each side of this issue so again I say, middle ground, balance and communication.
Cre8iveOne: If a husband and wife truly become "one flesh" as the Bible states, then I cannot see the left hand fighting against the right. What we see today are spouses competing with each other instead of completing each other.
Cj. I respect your opinion but you are not really validating the question that was asked. I gave my opinion on control. And in a different way, you have stated what I am saying that people can work together, as one.
Cre8iveOne, I intended to agree with you - in my own way. If a man and woman become "one flesh" there should not be a struggle for control or power. With respect for the original question...I already answered it above. God gave man the responsibility
This is historically not a global issue... not all cultures, ancient or modern, have this pattern present. In fact most of the very ancient cultures, pre-civilization, probably were more equal in the sexes as some modern rural tribes still are.
I cringe when I see people speculating that back in the day cavemen stole their wives from other tribes and basically owned them. What gives them the right for such a massive speculation?! Men AND women are VERY useful to have in a tribe. When the men were out hunting guess who was home inventing agriculture, making clothing, dragging home water, and farming the land? Women! This means both men and women were bringing in food and other useful supplies, therefore although their methods may have been different they were still in a sense equal. Women also were the ones to bear children, more hands to help in the farming and hunting. I think they may have wielded more power in ancient societies than we'd like to admit.
As far as men controlling women... that appears to be a concept that was born when we stopped living nomadically or in small villages. When cities grew philosophies changed and certain religions with these issues came into being. Even so, even amongst the monotheistic religions that are probably somewhere around 6,000 years old, there is evidence of concern for gender equality. There was, and in a sense still is, an infatuation with female virginity and marriage. Today you can argue this is regressive and barbaric and limits a woman's choices but in the day when these texts were written, long before the advent of birth control, this was meant to protect women by ensuring if they did become pregnant their man would not have the social ability to abandon her and the child.
Successful societies are those that have progressive philosophies. We live in a day and age where something as trivial as what we have between our legs should not matter. Until we learn that we are in a sense doomed to fail.
Theophanes: The problem with social engineers of our day is they incorrectly assume the only differences between men and women are their respective sex organs. Truth is, the differences are vast and they encompass the spirit, mind and body.
I agree with much you have put down here Theo. Fertility goddesses were once very popular because too many children didn't live long enough to become adults. This is no longer the case. Marriage can still be a good thing.
As per my knowledge, in most of cultures men assume control over wives because men is physically more strong than women and he can work hard to feed the wife and children. however this culture has changed in some societies where women have more freedom now and are equally important as men. the history of pattern seems like it all started with Abraham Lincon's law to abolish slavery and right to freedom in the west which revolution-ed the world we see today
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