The Divine Test of Abraham

1. 70

   Rishy Richposted 13 years ago

   What would you have done if you were in Abraham's place & God commanded you to sacrifice your Son or Daughter?
   
   Its called "The Binding of Isaac", a story from the Hebrew Bible. For those who are not familiar with the story, it goes like this:
   
   God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac, on Mount Moriah. Abraham sets out to obey God's command without questioning. After Isaac is bound to an altar, the angel of God stops Abraham at the last minute, saying that "now I know you fear God". At this point Abraham sees a ram caught in some nearby bushes and sacrifices the ram in Isaac's stead.
   
   
   
   
   Now from a religious perspective, Abraham might be the ideal example of faith on God. But if we look at it from an ethical perspective, how does it appear to you? To me, I find Abraham a person who does not hesitate to butcher his own Son for being in the good book of a Higher power for his own benefit. Its the symbol of selfishness at its best. And what about the judgment of God? How was that ethical anyway? How can God (YHWH) support a man who agrees to kill another human? & how could a GOD can ask for human sacrifice from us? Forget Human, even animal sacrifice should be banned from our society! I always found YHWH to be a sadistic, brutal & unholy power, who has been claimed by many to be a loving God! But can anyone explain how is this being ethical & loving?

   replyreport
   1. 58

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      At first glance, it would appear to be a Bronze Age fable constructed for a purpose, the possible intention of which is to stir awe and reverence from the superstitious and gullible. However, used as a powerful tool for childhood indoctrination, it can draw fear and terror from any child who now believes their parents wouldn't hesitate to slit their throats at gods command, without questioning.
      
      
      
      This fable is gleaned from Bronze Age thinking, the same thinking that gave us 'an eye for an eye' brand of justice, and from a time when superstitions were common place in light of rational explanations that we take for granted today.
      
      We need not focus so much on Abraham as a self serving believer but instead focus on the overall message being delivered, that people would and should without question go the lengths of killing members of their family for the belief of a gods existence. Teaching to sacrifice your own children for the love of a god is a beautiful example of a morally and ethically bankrupt belief system.
      
      
      
      Of course, they didn't have the current set of moral and ethical concepts we understand today when they wrote such stories.
      
      Included amongst them, the stories of Noah, Moses and Lot, full of the same line of superstitious and violent Bronze Age thinking, all morally and ethically bankrupt by today's standards.

      replyreport
   2. 0

      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Since you seem to choose to try to be the judge of God Himself, saying you always found Him to be sadistic and unholy,  I think your mind is closed to even trying to understand the answer to your question.

      replyreport
   3. 56

      Frank Menchiseposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If I had today knowledge, I would have said, No to God, and would point out to him that he was a cruel God and I would rather have a loving God then a powerful vengeful God.
      I suppose I wanted to say this, because today we would like to have a loving God, otherwise we would be better off without gods.

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I am pretty sure he heard that a lot, back in the day ! 
         That is why we are here where we are.

         replyreport
2. 60

   kessposted 13 years ago

   Once one deviate from Truth he can end almost anywhere........
   
   This narrate is only your interpretation of the story....
   
   Abraham is the well know an the Father of Faith...
   Any with the understanding of faith will understand the true meaning of the story...
   
   Since men do not like Truth they will believe a lie unto their own end.
   
   Please do not pass judgment on something you do not yet understand otherwise you would inevitably be false.
   
   It is better to exercise your intellect to understand rather than criticize.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I presume you understand the "Truth" very well just like Abraham did. And I guess, if an invisible mysterious voice tells you to kill me, you too will do so! 
      
      I believe what you are trying to term as 'Truth' is just a kind of Psychological Disorder. People with this type of disorders can be dangerous at times & needs to be kept under supervision...for the well being & security of our society.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         please yourself my friend Gos is well pleased.

         replyreport
         1. 70

            Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Mental Asylum would be the exact place for such 'Truth Experts'.

            replyreport
3. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   I could be wrong? ... 
     It seems that Abraham was claiming absolute faint in God.
   
     It would seem natural for that absoluteness be tested.
   
     It is written (Something like)  From those that little is given, little is expected in return.
     To those that much is given,  much is expected.
   
     Every parent has TESTED their children,in one way or another, to some extent or another.
     Employers test the loyalty of their employees ...
   Husbands/wives test the loyalty of their spouses  etc  in some way or extent, whether this is done consciously or unconsciously.
   
       It seems natural that Abraham would be tested, for all that he claimed and was as promised.
   
       It is through testing that we grow.  or  not.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think I got your point.
      
      Parents testing their children: Dad telling son go Kill your brother & rape your Sister
      
      Yeah its absolutely natural, Jeremy. Two Thumbs Up.

      replyreport
   2. 58

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You can't be serious, Jerami.
      
      We might test our childrens aptitude for cognitive learning skills or mental gymnastics.
      
      But, we don't hold a knife to our children screaming out god wants us to slit their throats for his amusement.

      replyreport
   3. 71

      getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Here you go reducing God to a mere human being again.
      
      It would be fitting for a human to test their child, because, without the benefit of omniscience, that would be the only way to note progress in the child...
      
      But...to say that an omniscient being needs to test anything is absolutely ABSURD!

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         getitrite wrote ..
           Here you go reducing God to a mere human being again.
         
         - - - - - - - - -
         ME
         I don't know how else to describe something other than using terms that I am familiar with.
           I don't think that you do either??
         ===============================================
         
         getitrite wrote ..to say that an omniscient being needs to test anything is absolutely ABSURD!
         - - - - - - -
          
         ME
            Why is it that Absurdity can only be seen in others ??  Hmm  I wonder why that is ?
         
         =================================
         getitrite wrote ..
         It would be fitting for a human to test their child, because, without the benefit of omniscience, that would be the only way to note progress in the child..
         
         - - - - - - - - -
         ME
         
         And posibly to encourage such progress and growth in that area. 
            I am glad that you agree.

         replyreport
         1. 71

            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That's no excuse.  Your delusion has collapsed.
            
            
            
            Meaningless and childish.  Sorry.  Where is your argument?
            
            
            
            So is your imaginary God omniscient or not?
            BTW, you only agree with yourself, which is right in line with the delusion.

            replyreport
            1. 59

               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Your replies to my post has no intellectual content what so ever, what is sad is that you didn't even attempt to say anything of substance, 
                  You are just throwing insults. Day in and day out.
               
                 In each passing day, You are sounding more like an angry six year old.
                  
                 Take two dose of self evaluation. and call me in the morning.

               replyreport
               1. 71

                  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  Complete rubbish!
                  
                  
                  
                  Your position, and steadfast adherence to it, in the face of overwhelming contradictions is the insult...you take us to be silly.
                  
                  
                  
                  And just because you are angry that your childish delusion has collapsed, you stoop to calling someone childish.  WOW!
                  
                  Don't kill the messenger, just make some sense, and you and I, and all the others, who see your psychotic beliefs as the nonsense that they are, will exist peacefully.

                  replyreport
4. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   And then some people take everything out of context.
    
      This too can be understood as a mental disease.

   replyreport
   1. 70

      Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think Im gonna write a book. I will call it :
      
      "Context & Interpretation" - the Duo that Saved the Holy Ass

      replyreport
      1. 70

         Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         & then I will print the sequel:
         
         "Context & Einstein's Theory of relativity" - from Scientific Perspective
         
         Basic Principle: A crime won't be considered a crime, if a God orders to do so.
         
         

         replyreport
5. 59

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Has anyone considered that most everyone thinks that most everyone else has a mental disorder?
   
     Maybe everyone is right.

   replyreport
   1. 61

      stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      They only think the people who doesn't agree with them has the mental disorder.  I don't think you have a mental disorder.  I don't think they have a mental disorder.  They just don't understand so they like to attack and insult people with different beliefs.   Just smile and know that God said it would be this way. 
      
      Love ya!

      replyreport
      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sometimes I do think that some kind of mental dysfunction is required in order for us to live this life.
         
           Maybe  just maybe any one getting over their mental dysfunction immediately transcends up to heaven, when no one is watching.
         
           Love you too.

         replyreport
6. 89

   livelongerposted 13 years ago

   Some of us believe that divine communication is done in the language acceptable and understandable in its context.
   
   Abraham, if you believe this foundational myth is true, lived about 4000 years ago. As incredibly difficult as this can be to imagine this today, back then human sacrifice was a common way to express devotion to a deity. People did a lot of things we would find abhorrent today; no one acted in a way we would consider ethical today.
   
   Would we do this today? No. We've moved beyond human sacrifice. We've moved beyond animal sacrifice, even. Most of our divine revelation, if you want to call it that, is from our own doing, through scientific inquiry. We are simply more advanced, less primitive than we were.
   
   And, for the literalists who deny that progress and context are essential to religious thought, there is a clear prohibition in the Torah (Old Testament to Christians), in Deuteronomy 12:31.

   replyreport
   1. 59

      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Just something that comes to mind concerning sacrifice.
      Ya always see in the movies that a virgin or inocent child was being sacrificed. These were guaranteed entrance into heaven.
      
        Wouldn't be right sacrificing someone that they thought was going to hell not allowing them the chance for redemption.
      
        After all if we beleive in heaven ??  what is death?

      replyreport
      1. 61

         Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Abraham's battle was waged within. The darkness said "kill the child" The light said: "Don't kill the child" God was one with darkness, creating light, with which to see the truth of darkness.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That could be true. ???   don't know.
            
              I try to be careful when speaking for what I think God said.
            
               I usually just say  that the bible said God said.
            
              Concerning things that are written I feel free to say that It think it says such and such. And this is the way that I understand that.
            
              I just don't want to say  God said it unless I think he said it to me, personally.
              And if I share that, I say, I think God said this to me.
            
              But over all, I think  that you might be right.

            replyreport