Google, Yahoo, Bing!

1. 69

   Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years ago

   I have an established website and it is on page 2 of both Yahoo and Bing for a particular search term. It is nowhere on Google for the same search term. Although indexed, the website has never been on Google result pages. My site ranks number one on Google for another search term which no one searches, so it is not penalized. And it is not a new website. I haven't done as much SEO as required but still it should be in top 100 results at least.
   
   Any idea why this is happening?

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2. 55

   yenajeonposted 13 years ago

   Google, Yahoo and Bing all use different methods/algorithms to determine serp. If your website is new, Google may not "like" it yet. Google likes OLD websites that are constantly updated.

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   1. 69

      Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      

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3. 55

   yenajeonposted 13 years ago

   Oh and one more thing. If your search term is directly related to your domain name that helps with Google. My latest hub talks about this stuff in case you want to hear an expanded explanation!

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4. 55

   yenajeonposted 13 years ago

   Oh sorry! I totally misread your question. Lol. Sometimes, it has to do with Google PageRank or your meta tags. Be sure to include your desired keyword not just in the general tags, but also onto every image (if the site is image-heavy) as well as in the title.

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5. 69

   Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years ago

   Its fine, happens all the time on forums.
   The domain name has the keywords. Meta tags seem up to the mark. It is one of the few websites I run. Titles are good.
   
   Why other search engines and why not Google?

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6. 55

   yenajeonposted 13 years ago

   Nobody will ever have a definitive answer for you because the Google algorithm changes often. It's really strange that you aren't ranked for a keyword that is directly in your domain, because that's usually what Google likes (more than Bing-they like to match content with the keyword).
   
   This perplexes me at times too. For example, for "asian fashion" my site is #2 on Google, but I would expect to be higher for "korean fashion" because the site is called Kfashion...-something. Part of the mysteries of Google I guess!

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      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think google would make the link between the letter k and korean.

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         yenajeonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sometimes they end up equating kfashion with korean fashion. Just like kpop. K is now being defined in some contexts as "Korean". There is a site called kjewels that Google assumes as Korean, and that comes up but actually has nothing to do with Korea/Korean!

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7. 79

   thisisoliposted 13 years ago

   Hi,
   
   Just a few things to consider
   
   Meta Tags are now only used by Yahoo for ranking, Bing and Google have both reported that they are no longer used in the SERA (Search Engine Rankign Algorythm).
   
   The domian name is a big plus, you can work with that.
   Page rank is not vastly important, but Google trust is - build backlinks from high quality websites.
   
   On age, new and old is relative, Google like 'old' domains with 'fresh' content.  There are several theories out there on how to optimize for that.
   
   My best advice would be to double check your onpage optimization for your keywords, check image alt tags, h1 h2 h3 tags, use some kind of bolding or italics on your keywords onece or twice per page to emphasize it.  all the usual stuff basically.  Run a backlinking campaign, submit some related articles to high quality article directories, contact some bloggers and ask for blog post positions.
   
   Everybody optimizes for Google simply because there is so much more traffic out there. That's one of teh reasons they have to constantly improve their search algorythm, and why it is so hard to rank.  You can rank for lesser seach engines, but generally a second page Google ranking will match traffic from a poll position bing ranking, and it always has the possibility to move higher!

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   1. 73

      livewithrichardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is key because Bing and Yahoo together cannot even capture half the market Google does. They have to work twice as hard to get advertisers which means they are twice as concerned with off-page optimization as is Google. 
      
      If you're in a heavy competition niche then you have a lot of work to get on top besides providing quality seo content.
      
      First place you should concern yourself is with creating Youtube videos.  Youtube reach is even greater than Yahoo and Bing.
      
      Second, you need to get your social networks involved. That does not mean post a link to Digg and Reddit or Shetoldme and Twitter then leave.  Those are the actual sites they are on, your networks are the groups of followers you have and they are the key to a positive social network. They need to post your links for you.

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         thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thats internet marketing not SEO.  Google DOES however track social mentions of a site and now there is growing evidence that google may incorporate this in to their ranking algorythm.
         
         Youtube can attract a lot of traffic, but it is low conversion.  Adsense profits are reported to be between $1 to $10 pper ten thousand views, and marketing techniques via youtube tend to have low conversion rates.
         
         I am not so sure how the lack of market share changes how much Yahoo and Bing focus on off page optimzation. But I would be glad to hear a more detailed explanaiton as to why you think a lower market share changes a SE's preference to rank via off page statistics than on page content.

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         1. 73

            livewithrichardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Internet Marketing - Search Engine Marketing (SEM) and SEO are pretty much synonymous these days so no need to confuse it with semantics... And as you will see semantics plays a big part in how market share affects the SE's differently.
            
            Google ranks pages like a popularity contest where Yahoo and more precisely Bing like to cluster sites semantically related to the search query. 
            
            For example, do a search on "Seattle Opera" on both Bing and Google.  You will see on Google the top sites have the most links, traffic, and yes social comments.  On Bing you will see the tops sites more semantically related to the query, i.e. Seattle opera directions, Seattle opera tickets, Seattle opera production schedules, etc.
            
            This clustering that Bing does is how they gained market share on Google in the last year. It's working for them and great for sites trying to build on a brand. 
            
            Google doesn't have to do much at all to attract potential advertisers. They are King with 66% of all daily searches being made on their engine.  As an advertiser you want your ads showing on the content of the most popular pages for your given keywords and if you have tons of money then you can through it at the search results. (I personally only use Adwords on content results not search results.) 
            
            By providing search results that are semantically related, Bing is allowing advertisers a unique opportunity to build on a brand. This is real attractive for those that are starting out and that do not have the financial resources to compete with the mega-giants in their fields.
            
            Sorry I should have made this a hub but the above should lead you to the conclusion that focusing on off page optimization is essential at least for Bing)to semantically relate search queries as part of their business model as opposed to playing the popularity contest. They have to offer something different to attract advertisers.

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            1. 79

               thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Latent semantic indexing is part of both Google and Bing, but it is most definitely ON page optimisation, Google has been leaning much more towards LSI for the past five years. You can find some great reports out there from the google programmers on the benefits of LSI in effective indexing by using related keywords to boost the power of the main keyword. This is the kind of semantic indexing that affects SERPs for a keyword, and it is 100% on page.
               
               Semantic search results (similar to Googles drop down search suggestions/wheel are again nothing new, but not really related to SEO other than as an idea for featured keywords. Microsoft placed them on the sidebar, but it is not really original.  Related search ideas are useful in SEO as a way to find effective keywords for competitive terms which have slightly less competitive terms in easy reach of searchers, but it doesn't affect your search rankings for your primary target keyword. LSI On page can boost page rankings for a variety of keywords.
               
               I am not sure how you are sugesting boosting your rankings off page by related searches though, off page optimization is hardly at all done on the search engine itself, but on other websites to build backlinks. Guest Blog Posting, Article Directories, etc. Would be grateful if you could elaborate on what you are suggesting here.
               
               The reason I am questioning this is because current consensus is that Bing and especially Yahoo are more focused on offpage optimization, with Google having a greater ability to process the huge amounts of data required to rank pages with off-page data. With Bing and Yahoo both having less data processing power, smaller data farms, and lower budgets, they simply cannot keep up with Google in terms of using different factors to rank a page.
               
               Google's ranking has rarely dropped below 70% in the US, or 80% world wide. 
               
               Microsoft's recent resurgence has been for the most part down to mobile applications combined with one of the most expensive marketing campaigns of the last decade. Bing is now the default SE on some of the most popular growing mobile devices.
               
               SEM and Internet Marketing as a whole are still vastly different from SEO. While SEO rests solely on increasing organic sales based on search engine rankings, SEM and Internet Marketing covers a huge area of marketing in the online world, from setting up affiliate programs for your company, PPC advertising and so on and so forth.  SEO is a part of any internet marketing campaign, but it is big enough to be a field in it's own right, and is far from semantics.
               
               A simple way of pointing out the difference here is that many SEO specialists know next to nothing about SEM/IM. In the same respect a lot of people who work in the SEM/IM market only have a base understanding on SEO.
               
               In my career I have had to handle both, but I can safely say that I am much more informed about SEO than Internet Marketing.  While I regularly have to manage affiliate campaigns on tools such as Share-A-Sale and linkshare, along with ppc campaigns, and social media campaigns, optimizing keywords, tracking performance, etc, my true skills are always going to be in providing SEO services.
               
               My clients are always aware of this, and in many cases Internet Marketer's will hire me to cover the SEO side of things even though they are incredibly adept at Internet Marketing itself.

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                  livewithrichardposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  I thought I was pretty clear above, but while Google may OFFER semantically related terms in the drop down or/wonder wheel as suggested terms to ALSO search, they will ONLY return the most POPULAR pages on their results page for the term you select which is why longtail keyword phrases are so needed now. On Google, once you choose a term to query the suggested related terms are gone.  On Bing when you choose a term to query the suggested related terms do indeed remain on the sidebar. 
                  
                  Google results are conceptually related in text and content through their latent semantic indexing but to get on top they have to outrank the competition. Like I said, a popularity contest.
                  
                  I never suggested that off-page optimization was done on the SE's, that would be ridiculous even for a newbie.  I gave a short list in my first reply on some key elements that were involved. I was pointing out how the SE's use related searches differently.   
                  
                  Ultimate Hubber, if your site is getting on page one of Yahoo and Bing but not ranking high enough on Google then you are probably optimizing correctly, now you need to work on your popularity.  You need to analyze your competition on page one, where are their links, do they have related youtube videos, are they showing up on social networks, what is their traffic value, how many links do they have pointing in, how many pages of content do they have indexed, are their internal pages linked, are they running an adwords campaign. Then compare it to your efforts, how do they match up? How many keywords are you trying to rank with, I would hope that its more than one.

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                  1. 69

                     Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks Richard, the website is nowhere in about 800 results for the search term. It never has been. Never.
                     
                     
                     
                     EDIT: That is 800 results of Google, not the other search engines.

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8. 61

   Mark Ewbieposted 13 years ago

   I also find that droll is ranked slightly higher than dry.  Although this doesn't work so well on Mondays obviously.

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9. 69

   Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years ago

   Thank you all for your advice.
   
   However, let me tell you that I submitted a few articles to EZA and other article directories sometime ago. I think I have around 20-30 backlinks to this site from article directories. I have made and ranked websites before. Keywords in bold are already there too.
   
   I don't know what I am doing wrong here. Or maybe sometimes Google won't rank something?

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      thisisoliposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Are you using your keywords in the anchor text & the title attribute in the link?
      
      A bank link by itself is useful, but if you have the link optimized for the keyword it will help dramatically. Are the sites you are linking from related to your website topic?
      
      It might be worth approaching a few website owners on different websites to get a little bit of guest blog posting going.

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      1. 69

         Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I am using the keywords I want to rank for in anchor text. I learned the backlinking stuff some 3-4 years back.
         
         Thanks Oli for being so helpful. I am getting frustrated and want to figure out why this is happening.

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10. 69

    Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years ago

    Has anyone been through a situation like this?

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11. 79

    thisisoliposted 13 years ago

    The related search terms is not really a huge issue in differences between search terms.  Yes it brings up new keyword ideas, but they should generally be keywords that you should either be targeting anyway, or they are not related to your business.
    
    They do not affect your traffic in a huge way, because most people (Especially if they see the list of suggestions) will go directly to the search they want. ie. if they want opera house tickets they will go straight for the tickets, if they are looking for info on presidents and they want Jefferson, they will go straight to those search results.
    
    All the search engines use a 'popularity' business model to a different degree, but when you say that Bing and Yahoo are focused to off page, and google On page you are contradicting yourself.  By it's very nature Google is off-page focused because they have so much information to analyse to create a vidual flow of Google Trust through the Internet.
    
    Google now has over 300 variables to determine a sites ranking for a particular keyword. This makes it much more than a simple case of running a popularity contest. 
    
    You have given some good advice, it's just hard for my to accept Google as OnPage and Yahoo/Bing as off page when if anything it is the other way around.

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12. 73

    livewithrichardposted 13 years ago

    Oli, I think you are reading too much into what I have written or I confused you somewhere along the way. I never said Google wasn't interested in off page, of course they are I said YOU have to work harder on your off page in order to get top ranking on Google.  If you do everything you can to get top ranking on Google you should by default rank high on the other search engines. 
    
    Related search terms IS a huge difference simply for the fact that BING is gearing their engine towards the mobile devices where people do not always have the luxury, nor do they want to, type in long search queries.
    
    There are only 200 factors you related to which carry a defined weight in the Google algorithm.  I think on page SEO carries a higher weight than does off page. (page loads, usability, user content, etc) Page Rank is one factor that mostly relies on off page.
    
    From Google Webmaster Central:
    
    
    Oli I think we're eye to eye here and just stating it differently.  I do think it is a popularity contest with Google, especially when it comes to page rank. 
    
    Ultimate Hubber, I think you should consider finding related keyword phrases that carry a good search value and start building around them.  You should also consider approaching webmasters in your niche.  Here is a good link with advice on how to do that: http://www.link-popularity-guide.com/
    
    My advice is, do not approach the top pages just yet.  You say that your keyword does not show in the first 800 results, then start down there and work your way up.  The pages that far back are going to want some help as well but don't offer reciprocal links, offer to make a guest blog post with a link back to your site. As a site owner, I would jump at the offer to place fresh, free, user related content on my blogs especially if all it cost me was allowing a link back.  It's a lot of work my friend but not impossible.

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13. 69

    Ultimate Hubberposted 13 years ago

    EDIT: That is 800 results of Google, not the other search engines.

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