Did God want his message to be understood?

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   SirDent  wrote
   
     1Th 5:4  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
   
   ====  ----   ====
   ME
       SirDent I don't intend to be picking on YOU  this was just the first post that I read and this thought came to mind and I couldn't stop  myself from asking this question.
         ?  .  '    :
   
   Aother verse which when taken at face value and no interprerarion is applied   ????
   
      This is written to someone in particular ...  But   "YOU"  my brothers are not in darkness, that that day should not overtake   "YOU"   as a theif.
   
      If this was written to   "YOU"   should we assume this be applicable to someone else?
   
      Just stop and think about that???   
       There are 100s of other verses just like this one.
   where a message is given to someone in particular that says  ... "When YOU shall see". Or  "YOU" be not deceived etc. etc.
   
      Those passages are talking to someone in particular, and Not to a bunch of people that are not born for another 2000 years.
   
      But we keep interpreting ALL of these verses as if they are not spokeaking to someone in PARTICULAR.
   
       And   THEN  the arguements begin and understanding is lost.
   
      untold multitudes of denominations of thought are created.
   
   
      And scripture all becomes a mystory  that no one has "THE" answer to. 
   
     And then we say God intended it that way!
     God didn't want to understand his message that he wanted it ALL to be a mystery. 
     I don't think so.

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      aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      YES, He did!

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Why would he?

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            aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Why WOULDN'T He.
            It would be stupid of anyone to say something that is VITAL to your spiritual growth and development, and then make it UN- Understandable (if there is such a word)
            
            Besides, we all need revelation, then we get understanding. Not everyone will understand, but everyone who seeks after understanding, will have it.
            Both the Psalms and Proverbs are a testament to that.
            Not to mention the Parables of Jesus. He said that it was for us to understand, but the world will not understand.

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      andycoolposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God knows!

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2. 57

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Maybe I'm wrong ? 
     But I understand that to be saying that this will be a mystery to those that are of the world, but to his followers it will be clear as day.
   
      If we do not believe we will interpret the simple message to mean something else.

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      aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds like we're on the same page, although not everything will be "clear as day" for the believer. We still need to seek His revelation on His word.
      I didn't all of a sudden understand EVERYTHING in the Bible as soon as I was born again.
      It comes with time, effort (study, prayer, meditation, etc.) and revelation.

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      1. 57

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         This is a never ending quest.  There is alwys more that we can learn on any subject.
         
            But the foundational beliefs should be simply understood.
            I would think. 
            Doesn't scripture say that Satan is the architect of deception, 
           And he is very good at it.

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3. 57

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Sorry   I "gotta" go lay me down.
   
     Later.

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4. 60

   user999posted 12 years ago

   Your question presumes that God has desires, that He has messages that people He created don't understand, and that He fails to deliver those messages to them.
   All pretty easy things for God Almighty to do.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If there is a God and he did whatever he did that brought this existence into being, this in itself reeks of him having desires. And he desired this to be for a reason.
      I would think!

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5. 87

   Bibowenposted 12 years ago

   I think Blaise Pascal offered the best response that I have heard to this when he said that God gives sufficient evidence for a man to believe, but it's not so apparent to the person that wants to reject God. Atheists make much of the “apparent hiddeness” of God. What do they want? Neon signs in the sky that announce “Jesus Saves”? If God were to do this, the atheist would complain that God is not very creative and that He’s always pushing Himself off on everyone.
   
   God has creatively revealed himself to man so there's no denying Him without making a fool of oneself. The Bible says that men have sufficient evidence and that this evidence is "clearly seen." Even someone like Dicky Dawkins admits this when he says that the universe only "appears" designed, but it's not.

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   1. 57

      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The OP isn't asking if there is a God, but rather WHY can't everyone understand what is written as it is written.
      
         If Jesus had said,  “On YOUR 30th birthday YOU are going to break YOUR leg, ...”  Using the same analogy as we are using when we say that he was talking to some generation 2000 years in the future, everyone then,  ever sense then, and everyone today will break their leg on their 30th birthday.
      
          In most verses in scripture (concerning prophesy) Jesus was talking to a specific person, or a SMALL group of people when he says things like,  Whey YOU see this happen ...           They will take YOU before the council,.. and they will kill YOU ! etc, etc,
       
      
        Jesus did SOMETIMES speak in terms to everyone in general.
        Not all the time.
        When speaking about fulfillment of prophesy, when he said, "When YOU see such and such happen, he was speaking to those that he was standing in front of, and looking at;      the same way as we do today. 
      
        I believe that when we interpret these things that Jesus said to an individual, and apply these to US today, we keep the mystery alive, when we shouldn’t.
      
      Maybe God has influenced the mystery through the ages.
      But in this day and age, the mystery is being revealed to us.  Our eyes are being opened. And it is NOW time to open our eyes and see,   
      The 42 months are coming to closure.

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      mathsciguyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Blaise Pascal should have stuck with gambling and probability.  Pascal's wager is a popular thing to cite amongst theists, but (unfortunately for many mathematicians who admire his work in basically laying the foundations of probability theory by himself) the theorem makes unwarranted assumptions from which it arrives at the conclusion that "QED, it is a safer bet to believe in a God"

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         Bibowenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Given the four alternatives that Pascal gives, not believing is too great a risk and even if you're foolish enough to risk that yourself, consider your loved ones, like your children. With those souls at stake, you're hard pressed to call it "unwarranted."

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            mathsciguyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Pascal was a gambler.  And, as such, he made his wager based upon the possible outcomes of the decision, which was "believe in God or don't believe in God." Consider, however, that this is a false dichotomy.  The decision isn't really "believe in God or don't believe in God," but is rather "believe in God, or don't believe in God, or believe in Allah, or believe in Buddha, or believe in Krishna, or believe in your ancestors, etc."
            Pascal was aware of this false dichotomy, but (and it breaks my heart to say this, because I greatly admire Pascal as something of a founding father to my profession) rather than being really academically honest and conceding that this false dichotomy really destroys the mathematical validity of the assertion, he chose instead to attempt to debunk the other "competing" religions.  Unfortunately, neither Pascal, nor any other human I'd wager could possibly debunk belief in every other of the countless conceptions of "God" held by various people of the world. 
            I'm sorry, Pascal, but you should have taken a lesson from Pythagoras and realized that mathematics and religion shouldn't be mixed.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   Hey Jerami. Interesting question.  You'd probably have to sit down with a couple of Rabbis. Since they have the first information from the One God.  You'd probably need to ask some Hindus, since they too believe.  And then some Christians.  And top it off with a couple of Muslim Imams. 
   
   Oh, and don't forget everyone not associated with organized religion that claims belief in God.  I guess you'd need to include each and every one of them.
   
   They all claim to have information about the One God.  It doesn't sound to me as if this is, exclusively, a Christian question.  As long as anyone thinks it is they obviously aren't looking at every angle needed to answer the question.

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   SpanStarposted 12 years ago

   As I understand it aka-dj and Jerami focused on the so-called mysteries of the bible is understand why parables were written in the bible.  People at that time were doing all they could to hunt down and kill Christians so inorder for Gods words
   to get out the real message was hidden from those who thought they had all the answers but if they couldn't read the bible with spiritual eyes then it sounded like nonsense to them.

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   SirDentposted 12 years ago

   All I am going to say is this.  God is a God of revelation.  Go back to the Old Testament and see how many times he revealed Himself. 
   
   He walked with Adam in the garden in the cool of the day.
   
   He called Abram out from among his people to go to a land He will lead him to.
   
   He revealed Himself to Jacob in a dream. 
   
   God keeps thing mysterious, but reveals to whom he will.  We are not in total darkness, yet all has not been totally revealed to us. 
   
   Jesus said, "You are the light of the world."

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      SirDent said
        God keeps thing mysterious, but reveals to whom he will.  We are not in total darkness, yet all has not been totally revealed to us. 
      
      
      Jesus said, "You are the light of the world."
      
        ====   ---
      
      me
        Jesus also said that while he walded in the world, he is the light, but soon darkness will come  ,,,   can we apply this to us today?  Did darkness come to the world back then? or is this also a prophesy that applys to us today, 2000 years after he said these words?

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         SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Jesus did say this yes.  He also said, "Joh_9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. "
         
         Darkness has not yet taken over the world, but soon will from the signs that we can see.  The antichrist spirit has grown stronger in the last decade than it had in the century beofre that. 
         
         More pretenders, (Nicolaitans), than there ever was before (having a form of godliness but denying the power).

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Bullocks. That's just a lame excuse for believing others who said God revealed himself to them.
      
      They could have been lying. Who's to know for sure?
      
      If he revealed himself to others, it should be no problem at all for him to reveal himself to everyone. There is absolutely no logical or rational reason for God to keep things mysterious.

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         SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         He did just that 2000 years ago.  And they cried, "Crucify him!"

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Funny, you now tell a different story. Before, it was God who gave his son up to pay for the sins of others, now it's, "Crucify him!"
            
            Where does it say that God has to reveal himself in a real person? He just has to reveal himself as God, simple. No one is going to believe a real person who claims they are a god or the son of God...
            
            Oops, never mind.

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               SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               It is the same message.  You do not see it.  That is how simple it is.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  If I don't see it, you didn't write it.
                  
                  You see, that's how the written medium works, you write something on these forums and we see it.
                  
                  Cool how that works, huh?

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9. 59

   Jonathan Jancoposted 12 years ago

   Gen.11
   [1] And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
   [2] And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
   [3] And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
   [4] And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
   [5] And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
   [6] And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
   [7] Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
   [8] So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
   [9] Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

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      Randy Godwinposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      So what was the big deal about people building a tower which had no chance of succeeding?  Or did the god not know this already?
      
      Another old myth to explain why there was more than one language used by people in the Old World.  Languages take long periods of time to develop and to be isolated from each other.  The anonymous writers of the myths contained in the OT were not filled in on this important aspect by their god.  He forgot.

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10. 61

    kessposted 12 years ago

    God is glorified by those who understand his message and also by those who do not understand.
    
    those who understand will sttand totally justified while growing in their understanding..
    
    those who misunderstand even the little they understood will be taken away until they are left totally barren and desolated.
    
    He who seeks justification from God alone will be justified before him and all men.
    
    He who seekd justification before both God and men will not be justified before God neither any man.
    
    If a man were to declare the mysteries of God , he will be scoffed at by men and all his words will be deemed as meaningless. Yet that one will Live.
    
    yet as a man temper his words to accommodate the ears of men, he will gain the  applause of many nevertheless that man will die the death.
    
    do not spend your time dwelling in the multitude of words, whether it be written or spoken, for these belong to men and the word of God passes ypu by...
    
    This is why God who is also His Word remain a mystery for He cannot ever be written or spoken.
    
    But it is the understanding eminating from the purity of the heart....and it is TRUTH.

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       Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Now; In my opinion, for what that is worth, this is the pureist orm of wisdom (simply stated) That i have seen coming off of your finger tips in this forum!
       
         My  aplause  to you.  Well stated.
       
          But if I may?  you said ... This is why God who is also His Word remain a mystery for He cannot ever be written or spoken.
       
       me ..  As in any relationship ...  openness and honesty is required.
       
         I think, if God speakes, he will want his family to understand.  But only when the time is right.
          And the time is now right.    (I think?)

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    paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

    The Creator God did want that His message should be understood clearly by the human beings; that is why He sent Messengers and Prophets after one another with the Word of Revelation from Him; but without compulsion.

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       earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Yep! Nice stuff like Matthew 5:27

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