Everybody is talking about it.

1. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   How many verses in the bible are there that talks about and describes the Rapture.
   And when was it written....
   
     Lets just assume  (Yea I know) that it was written around 55 AD.
     It might have said that it hasn't happened yet!
   
     So we know that it hadn't happen by the year 55 AD. But some time afterwards.
   
     Jesus clearly said (it is written in the bible that he said these words)
   
     THIS generation Shall Not PASS till all these things  be done.
   
     I believe Jesus in this statement. It is not a contradiction!
   
     It already happened, Long ago!
     There were only 144000 people from all over the Middle East that just disappeared!   It would be easy for no one to notice this happening, especially if it happened when Hadrian was deporting  ALL  of the Jews out from All of Israel, Selling them into slavery through out the rest of the Roman Empire.                                                               How many died, along the side of the road, while being transported.                                                                And how many were hunted down and killed for being rebels?
   Was anyone taking names or at least counting how many died? 
   
   
       MAN!    Those people must have been going through HELL.   …   Way back then!
   Then a couple hundred years later,  the story got changed up,  just a little bit?                                                                       Just like Revelation says that it would.!!

   replyreport
2. 60

   girlgonestrongposted 11 years ago

   The prophetic term "this generation" may refer to all who live in the "church age".  That would be all who live from the time of Chist's resurrection to the time when the Millenial Kingdom begins.  This would be similar to how Daniels 70 "weeks" refer to "weeks of 7 years" instead of "weeks of seven days" and thus the 490 years is akin to Daniel's 70 "Weeks".
   
   As to the Rapture, if you study up on it you'll find that the VERY popular idea of a pretrib Rapture is a very, very new idea born in 1800's.  Before that (for 1800 years) the common concensus was that there was no pre-trib rapture but that the ONLY rapture happens at the end of the Tribuation when Christ returns.  Revelation 20:4-6 refer to the resurrection/rapture that takes place at Christ's arrival on the scene at the END of the tribulation at the Battle of Armageddon as as the FIRST resurrection.  Why would it be called the FIRST resurrection if, in fact, there have been a much larger resurrection of all the saint who had lived from the beginning of time until the pre-trib rapture?  Wouldn't it be the second resurrection?  And the final resurrection at the end of the Millenium at the Great White Throne Judgement, wouldn't that be the third?
   
   People today don't like the idea that Christians are going to have to go through a very, very bad time.  They want assurance that they'll get a get-out-of-jail free card where the Tribulation is concerned.  The truth is that God brought Israel through the desert for 40 years because their hearts were not pure before allowing them to enter the promised land.  Do you think that today's Church is full of people with pure hearts of people who are steeped in idolatry known as consumerism?  Do you think that God is NOT going to bring his people through a desert experience as he did before prior to letting us enter the promised land?
   
   Between the resurrection at the end of the Tribulation being called the "first" and this idea that the God's people are NOT going to be spared the tribulation of the Antichrist but only will be spared the "wrath of God" poured out on the world, it seems unlikely that there will be any pre-trib rapture.

   replyreport
   1. 60

      Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I have some issues with what you have posted here:
      
      'this generation' cannot be reinterpreted as the church age just because the expected second coming did 'not happen' in the first century. We must accept that Jesus was talking in Matt 24 as a continuation of chapter 23. He was emphatic that the blood of the prophets would be visited on that generation and when the disciples asked when it would happen, he confirmed again that generation.
      
      He also said that the tribulations at that time would be greater than any before or since. History confirms this as around AD70, Israel was destroyed and ethnically cleansed. In the lead up to the destruction of Jerusalem, the city was divided into terrorist factions that butchered the population; the siege by the Romans led to cannibalism; and the Romans crucified anyone who fled. They got so bored with the numbers that they crucified the Jews in all sorts of contorted shapes to keep themselves amused. When Jerusalem was conquered, millions in Israel were executed and those remaining ethnically cleansed. Rome had one agenda, to wipe Israel out as a nation which it succeeded until 1948 when it was recreated. Jesus was talking of Israel and we can accept what he said that nothing would compare before or since to these events, thus there is no future tribulation, it already happened.
      
      Consumerism is not idolatry. We cannot reinterpret this term just because our western societies are monotheistic or secular. Idolatry is worshipping other deities in place of God and was specifically a sin of Israel.
      
      Personaly I find Revelation to be of little value except to cause hysterics within the 21st church. The fact that John's vision of four living creatures is a direct rip off of Babylonian astrology should sound alarm bells. Also we have no idea who this John was. Historically the book had many Church fathers plus Martin Luther questioning its validity.

      replyreport
3. 59

   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   girlgonestrong
   
      This would be similar to how Daniels 70 "weeks" refer to "weeks of 7 years" instead of "weeks of seven days" and thus the 490 years is akin to Daniel's 70 "Weeks".
   = - = -
   ME
     Where do we get this idea that a day in prophesy =s a year in real time and IF this is true, why does this apply to only "some" of the prophesy.        Why not all?  How do we know when?
   ================================================
   girlgonestrong
   As to the Rapture, if you study up on it you'll find that the VERY popular idea of a pretrib Rapture is a very, very new idea born in 1800's.  Before that (for 1800 years) the common concensus was that there was no pre-trib rapture but that the ONLY rapture happens at the end of the Tribuation when Christ returns. 
   = - = - = -
   me
     Was you aware that until the 1800s the futurists view of Revelation was a minority
   ===========================
   girlgonestrong
   Revelation 20:4-6 refer to the resurrection/rapture that takes place at Christ's arrival on the scene at the END of the tribulation at the Battle of Armageddon as as the FIRST resurrection.  Why would it be called the FIRST resurrection if, in fact, there have been a much larger resurrection of all the saint who had lived from the beginning of time until the pre-trib rapture?  Wouldn't it be the second resurrection?  And the final resurrection at the end of the Millenium at the Great White Throne Judgement, wouldn't that be the third?
   = - = -
      me
     Rev 20:4-5 does not mention anything sounding similar to the "Rapture?"
   Why do people assume that the "Rapture?" happens at the same time as the first recurrection?  There is no place is scripture that would cause us to think that it does.  The Rapture is an event in and of itself.
   =========================================
   girlgonestrong
   People today don't like the idea that Christians are going to have to go through a very, very bad time.  They want assurance that they'll get a get-out-of-jail free card where the Tribulation is concerned.  The truth is that God brought Israel through the desert for 40 years because their hearts were not pure before allowing them to enter the promised land.  Do you think that today's Church is full of people with pure hearts of people who are steeped in idolatry known as consumerism?  Do you think that God is NOT going to bring his people through a desert experience as he did before prior to letting us enter the promised land?
   ==============================================
   me
     Just something to consider ..?..  After 40 years in the desert MOST all if not all of the people which were brought out of Egypt had died. Moses wasn't even allowed to enter the promised land.  Those which were allowed into the promised land were born in the desert.
   ==========================================
   Between the resurrection at the end of the Tribulation being called the "first" and this idea that the God's people are NOT going to be spared the tribulation of the Antichrist but only will be spared the "wrath of God" poured out on the world, it seems unlikely that there will be any pre-trib rapture.
   = - = -
     A chunk of iron has to go through the fire before it can become a sword, and even then it must be tested before it can be trusted.

   replyreport
4. 59

   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   Disappearinghead wrote
   I have some issues with what you have posted here:
   = - = -   
   me 
     Me too
   ================================
   Disappearinghead
   'this generation' cannot be reinterpreted as the church age just because the expected second coming did 'not happen' (AS IT WAS EXPECTED TO HAPPEN)  in the first century. We must accept that Jesus was talking in Matt 24 as a continuation of chapter 23. He was emphatic that the blood of the prophets would be visited on that generation and when the disciples asked when it would happen, he confirmed again, "that generation".
   = - = -
   Me
     EXCUSE MY LITTLE EDIT,  NOW I AGREE COMPLETELY.
   =====================================================
   Disappearinghead
   He also said that the tribulations at that time would be greater than any before or since. History confirms this as around AD70, Israel was destroyed and ethnically cleansed. In the lead up to the destruction of Jerusalem, the city was divided into terrorist factions (PHARISEES,SADUCEEDS, AND ZELOTS) that butchered the population; the siege by the Romans led to cannibalism; and the Romans crucified anyone who fled. They got so bored with the numbers that they crucified the Jews in all sorts of contorted shapes to keep themselves amused. When Jerusalem was conquered, millions in Israel were executed and those remaining ethnically cleansed. Rome had one agenda, to wipe Israel out as a nation which it succeeded until 1948 when it was recreated. Jesus was talking of Israel and we can accept what he said that nothing would compare before or since to these events, thus there is no future tribulation, it already happened.
   = -- = - =
   me
     I believe that the reason for the Roman Army coming to Jerusalem in the first place was to put down this civil war that had errupted. For many years after 70AD, Titus and his army searched the land for other rebels. Any Hebrew encountered in posetion of any sort of weapon was immediately executed.
   =================================================
   Disappearinghead
   Consumerism is not idolatry. We cannot reinterpret this term just because our western societies are monotheistic or secular. Idolatry is worshipping other deities in place of God and was specifically a sin of Israel.
   
   Personaly I find Revelation to be of little value except to cause hysterics within the 21st church. The fact that John's vision of four living creatures is a direct rip off of Babylonian astrology should sound alarm bells. Also we have no idea who this John was. Historically the book had many Church fathers plus Martin Luther questioning its validity.
   = - = - =
      This is another issue that I'll not adress at this time.
      I agree about 50 % worth.

   replyreport