Can anyone explain why the tribe of Dan is not listed as part of the 144,000?

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   graceinusposted 12 years ago

   Can anyone explain why the tribe of Dan is not listed as part of the 144,000?
   
   Revelation 7:5 thru 8 list all the tribes of Isreal except the tribe of Dan. However in place of the tribe of Dan is the tribe of Manasses. Who is the tribe of Manasses and where did they come from?

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   starsofeightposted 12 years ago

   I remember Manassas. They were called the half-tribe when the promised land was being allotted. I think not only Dan is missing, but Ephraim as well. I have heard many explanations, and here is a quick link:
   
   http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/ … 7-4-8.html
   
   but my own personal take is there can only be one judge (that is the meaning of Dan.) However, from my own reading, I recall that the scattered tribes are referenced several times by new testament writers -- meaning, if they were known to exist, they could not truly be considered to be lost.

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      In the book of Ezekiel God said He would bring all the tribes back to the land of Isreal. I would assume this included the tribe of Dan. With that said it's a puzzle as to why Dan is left out of the 144,000. I will view the link you mentioned. Thanks

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      starsofeightposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      It could well be the remnant of Dan was absorbed into other tribes; it may still exist, but with a different name. Just for fun, go to the part where the twelve original tribes receive their patriarchal blessings, and read them as prophecy.

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   cam8510posted 12 years ago

   The biblical record does not explicitly answer the question, so we are left to piece the puzzle together from the references that do exist concerning this matter. 
   
   First, a little background.  Abraham, father of Isaac; Isaac, father of Jacob(aka Israel); Jacob, father of twelve sons who became the founders of the twelve tribes of Israel.  Joseph was one of Jacobs sons, but was not considered the founder of a tribe.  Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, comprised the twelfth tribe, each being considered half a tribe.  Dan was also one of Jacob's sons and therefore the founder of a tribe. 
   
   In Judges chapter 18, the tribe of Dan followed after a false god and persisted in this rebellion against the God of Israel.  It may be for this reason that they were left out of the list of tribes in Revelation 7 and 8.
   
   In that list (Rev 7-8), in order to have a full allotment of twelve tribes, Joseph was considered a full tribe as was Mannaseh.  Theoretically, the tribe of Dan was discounted based on persistent idolatry.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The above reference to Rev 7-8 should be Rev 7:1-8.

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I do wonder , if Joseph is not concidered a tribe then why is his tribe listed in the 144,000? Could this explain why Ephraim is not listed? Thanks cam8510.

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      cam8510posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      one explanation for exclusion of Ephraim would be that by late 1st century, reference to Manasseh was short for both E&M since originally they were one tribe.  Rev.7, 12 tribes are needed.  Dan was dropped as was Ephraim.  Joseph and Manasseh mad

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   Greg Seredaposted 12 years ago

   "The tribe of Dan as a whole was guilty of gross idolatry—even to the point of stealing the idols they used to practice their religion (Judges 18:14-31). Theirs was the first organized idolatry in ancient Israel, and the longest in duration. It continued "until the day of the captivity of the land," nearly 500 years later (Judges 18:30). Jewish tradition says that Dan was the first tribe to follow Jeroboam into his sin of idolatry, and in their literature, the term "Dan" is often used to represent idolatry.
   
   From this summarized history of the tribe, it becomes obvious why Dan would not be among the 144,000 "servants of our God," as they are called in Revelation 7:3."
   
   Source: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fus … n-74-8.htm

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This would explain alot. The tribe of Dan did get themselves involved in idolatry almost from the every start. Many thanks Greg.

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      Judah's Daughterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Dan (Genesis 49:17; Judges 18:30) and Ephraim (Hosea 4:17) were idolatrous and left out of the list of the 12 tribes in Rev 7:4-8.  However, Dan is the first tribe listed in Ezekiel’s millennial role call of the tribes (Ezekiel 48).

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   irenemariaposted 12 years ago

   Revelation 7:4-8 diverges from the usual tribal listing. (Numbers 1:17, 47) Obviously, the listing here is not for the purpose of identifying fleshly Jews by their tribes but to show a similar organizational structure for spiritual Israel. This is balanced. There are to be exactly 144,000 members of this new nation—12,000 from each of 12 tribes. No tribe in this Israel of God is exclusively royal or priestly
   (Revelation 5:9, 10) . .  you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Can one really state for sure if it's one or the other. It is at best a guess as to wether it is fleshly Isreal or Spiritual Isreal. No one really knows at this point. I believe only time will tell. Many thanks irenemaria

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   SeanBrookposted 12 years ago

   Most clergy I have talked to have "no clue" what the true meaning of the 144000 is all about in John's Revelations......perhaps this new (ancient) wisdom source would help them and everyone else if they so choose.....an excerpt:
   
   "Jesus is the most studied man in history, yet his true name is a mystery for most people. In the past, this was due to the deliberate destruction of documents by the Roman and Islamic Empires to hide the truth. Today, the Vatican still hides its documents about Jesus’ true history, his marriage to Mary Magdalene, Jesus’ ancient wisdom and his secret teachings"........thefruejesus.org

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      SeanBrook- I believe your right, most  clergy don't have a clue. Thank you

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   LoisRyan13903posted 12 years ago

   Manasseh (NIV) is Josesph's son, Jacob's grandson.  Since Joseph was his favorite, he treated his grandson as his son as well and blessed him.  I think that is why Manasseh is considered to be a half-tribe.  As for Dan, I don't know.

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      graceinusposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Lois- Thanks for your answer. The tribe of Dan leaves me baffled. Maybe there 's a good solid answer out there that caan explain this. Again thanks

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