Al Gore's misunderstanding of thermodynamics.

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   JSChamsposted 12 years ago

   Here's the story:
   
   http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government … ient-Truth
   
   Seems green technology is stymied by science.

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      SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The audacity to pick on the man who created the internet and won a Nobel Peace Prize for misleading the masses! That takes some skill you know.
      
      I guess we can throw that money into the can that sits next to the one marked Solyndra.

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         tirelesstravelerposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         LOL

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Seriously? THe second law of therodynamics deals with perpetual motion and the impossibility of complete heat transfer none of which has anything to do with the green energies mentioned, none of them are intended to be completely efficient (which is impossible) merely MORE efficient which is very possible, the crazy thing here is both she and you seem to believe that nobel prize winning scientists and multinational corporations dont understand high school physics.
      
      The author is a complete non entity in the scientific community and the article contains no scientific data whatsoever just vague allusions to the laws of thermodynamics grand eneough to confuse the ignorant apparently succesfully.

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   Mighty Momposted 12 years ago

   The Obama Administration has made putting a total of 1 million electric vehicles on American roads by 2015 a centerpiece of its transportation policy.  In response, automakers in Japan and the United States ramped up production of plug-in electric vehicles (PEVs) quickly over the last 2 years. 
   The practical challenges of launching new models and expanding PEV sales to mainstream consumers, however, have proven more difficult than automakers or policymakers foresaw. 
   According to a new report from Pike Research, around 410,000 PEVs will be sold between 2011 and 2015 in the United States, and cumulative U.S. sales will not reach the 1 million mark until 2018.
   
   Nevertheless, PEV sales are expected to ramp up strongly in the second half of this decade.  Global PEV sales are expected to surpass 1 million vehicles per year in 2017 and, by 2020, worldwide sales volumes will reach 1.7 million units annually.
   
   “While it is true that plug-in electric vehicles have seen delays in arriving on the market and have sold in fewer numbers than originally anticipated, we expect strong growth as global PEV sales volumes will nearly triple between 2012 and 2014,” says research director John Gartner.  “Automotive companies have made a strong commitment to electric vehicles, and their viability as a transportation platform is no longer in doubt.”
   
   Oh yes, and electric bicycles are an even bigger market globally than electric cars.
   But  guess the technology doesn't work because some reporter for Breitbart.com says so.

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      SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      They are not viable. Where are you going to plug it in? Hotel chains are not going to eat that energy drain. There are no "charging stations" and besides, who would want to sit there while you charge it? Currently, electric vehicles manage just  100 miles between charges. That is impractical. Plus, the consumer costs of these vehicles make them unaffordable for the average American (I can't speak for the rest of the world). So, yes, their viability is still in doubt.

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         Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Once upon a time there were no gas stations, either.
         Change is hard.

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            SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            @mightmom Really? You are going to compare a time when people travelled by horse and few owned cars to now when most own gas-powered cars? Really? With no other means of getting around? You fail to address the cost as well. How exactly, especially given the current economic situation, do you propose all these people purchase these cars? I love all the left and their "the rich are evil" but when only the rich can afford something, then it's the masses that are supposed to bite the bullet and suffer.

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               PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I'm glad you're not in charge of innovation.  Of anything.

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                  SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  PP Would it matter? "WE don't build anything anyway do we?

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                     JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh no.....they didn't build that.
                     
                     That statement will be Barack Obama's Read My Lips.

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                        Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Only because people are being so willfully ignorant about it.

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                           SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Well just stop being so willfully ignorant about it and admit he said what he said, Cody!
                           
                           Funny, no one seemed to mind when they jumped all over Bush Sr. for the "read my lips" thing.

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                              Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Well, that happened when I was 6, so I'm sure I never really jumped all over him for it. 

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                                 Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 And I do know what Obama said, and it had nothing to do with business owners not building their businesses.

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                                    JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    What he said did.
                                    
                                    What he meant did as well, but just not as much.

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                     PrettyPantherposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Not if we listen to people like you.

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         Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm sure drivers in Oregon and western Canada would disagree with you, since there are actually a network of plug-in stations across the region.

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            JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Yep....drive 40 miles charge for six hours. Gimme that.

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               Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/inde … quick.html
               
               Or 20 mins....

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                  Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  The hybrids like the Chevy Volt are more practical for most people from what I've heard than the all electric vehicles like the Nissan Leaf.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            They are putting charging stations in Walgreen Drugstore parking lots all over the country.

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            SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That's quite possible Cody but I happen to live on the East Coast of the USA. Won't help me much now will it? Or do you suggest I push the car West and/or North and hope for the best?
            
            lol I hate to break this news to you Ralph, and other of my liberal friends, but this is still a big, spread out country. We all don't live in cities where everything is crammed together. I don't have a WalGreen's within an hour of me. Plus, they are only putting them in at 800 locations nationwide. Hmmm....don't think that's going to cover the continental US.

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               Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You said it wasn't viable. I showed you where they are starting to make the switch.
               
               Don't change the subject.

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                  SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  And yet, you've all still ignored the basic question as well. How exactly do you propose that everyone pay for these things?

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                     SassySue1963posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     In Midwestern states that rely heavily on coal, driving an electric car produces 18 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions than driving a typical gasoline-powered car, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists. Surprisingly, driving an electric car there produces 50 percent more greenhouse gases than driving a 50 mpg electric hybrid.
                     
                     http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/06/ho … ts-add-up/

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                     Cody Hodgeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Well, just like almost every innovation over the course of human history, the cost of the goods will come down as production becomes more efficient and more people purchase them.

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      JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      They suck.....out loud.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago

   Somebody better build a few dozen million wind turbines to create all that extra electricity for everyone to drive an electric car around in...

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      JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      

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   JSChamsposted 12 years ago

   I love how the science is ignored because we don't like where the message came from. The progressive left in a snit!

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   JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago

   Would everybody be OK with the US building a couple hundred new nuclear reactors so that everyone could drive electric cars?

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      Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely yes personally, nuclear is an excellent and very safe power creation method and if done using thorium it is essentially completely harmless, nuclear power kills nowhere near as many people as coal mining for example. It also does not contribute to the greenhouse effect. The plants need to be built away from fault lines though.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Me too, actually.
         
         I worry that too many people are focusing on electric cars without asking themselves 'where will the electricity come from?'
         
         Last time I crunched the numbers, I think it would take 20-30% of our entire power supply to power our cars if they were all electric.
         
         This is why I like nuclear over 'renewables', among other reasons:
         
         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc7rRPrA7rg

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            Josakposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            The video really puts it in perspective. The main problem is people have been put off nuclear based on headlines without looking at the facts, it really is a very good system.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 12 years ago

   A rough calculation shows me that we would have to completely fill the entire state of Missouri, with windmills(assuming that they were all working at full capacity no matter where we put them) to power all-electric cars in the US.

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      JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I did a round trip on I-40 through Tennessee last weekend. On one stretch in the western part of the state some farmland has been filled with solar panels.  Real curious as to how much energy is being garnered from it versus the cost to install. I believe it's a UT project.
      Not only does it take lot's of windmills but once again you have people like the Kennedy's who preach for them but don't want them off the coast where it spoils their view.

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   PDXBuysposted 12 years ago

   I think there is also a misunderstanding of the theory of complexity (also know as chaos theory).  Chaotic systems are not always predictable, even if you are an expert at Newtonian physics.  In fact, it is impossible to predict changes in chaotic systems.  Combine the Earth's climate, the stuff we put into it, and the notorious unpredictability of human behavior, and you have one of the most complex terrestrial systems known to man (other than the human brain, perhaps).  Al Gore's flaw is that he assumes we can predict the state of the environment one hundred years from now, or even twenty-five years from now.  We do not have the ability to do that.  At best, we can make some short-term changes to our behavior and hope for the best.

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      JSChamsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Let's not forget that his public personal behavior does not match his rhetoric.
      Let's preach about the environment and then leave where you were speaking in a jumbo jet belching untold amounts of carbon into the air and buy a mansion in an area you just told everyone is a future flood plain.
      
      The proof is in the pudding.

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