A question about international relations and the Muslim world.

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   mio cidposted 11 years ago

   So as i look at the recent events taking place in the Muslim world , with all the protests and attacks on US embassies , businesses,and institutions , and the alleged rape and murder of a US ambassador I wonder, so any book that is published, any article that is written,any tv show, or movie, anything anybody posts on the internet, anything in the field of art, communication ,education , and really any action taking place anywhere in the world has to be made sure not to offend any Muslim because otherwise  people will die.                           Religion of peace?Give me a f---ing break!

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      A Troubled Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Evidently.

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      Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Don't be fooled that this is just about a movie. It's decades of anger at US foreign policy in the Middle East.

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         mio cidposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I think this has more to do with extremist muslims than with the policies of the US in the middle east.

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            Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The USA has funded and supported the repression of Arab people by their corrupt cronies such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. It has also shielded the criminals in Israel from international law over their war crimes against Palestinians. That's extremism. This weekend we should remember the Sabra and Shatila massacres of 1982.

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            rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The US planted this seed of discontent when it established Israel and contunues to back it no matter what it does to the region. You have generations and generations of hatred and upsetment that has been brewing that has never been addressed by Israel or the US. With Bebe Netanyahus' recent snub from Obama maybe the rest of the muslim world will catch a glimpse of some objectivity in the treatment of Israel with regards to Muslims.

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         ThompsonPenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         That is true, but it's not all Muslims. After all, America and a lot of the Western world has asserted itself where it doesn't belong and basically walked into their living room and said "ok, this is your house, but we're going to tell you how you get to behave in it". We're not the police of the world. They are cultures that have been around for far longer than American culture, and we're just the know-it-all teens that are trying to play parent to an older generation.
         But yes, I agriee with you too mio cid, it does have to do with the extremists. and there are extremists in every country. Look at the KKK, or some very extreme religious lots that believe gay people should die, and in some cases will kill gay people (check out the Laremy Project. Most depressing story ever).

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      psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It is a religion of peace in that there are countries where it is entirely peaceful.  Ergo being Muslim is not what has made these people violent, or at least it was Islam and some other ingredient.

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   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   Arab Spring seems a distant memory, doesn't it?

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      mio cidposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It does, but the fact that our counterparts are unable to join us into the twenty first century doesn't mean we should have  sided with tyrants and despots. Now I guess president obama will assess the situation and act accordingly.

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         Ericdierkerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         What a vwonderful debate, the mere fact that we embrace it is awesome. All people have a right to self determination. Amen. How we make sausage is ugly but most of us like the product.
         My people around the globe thank you for caringl

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   LikaMarieposted 11 years ago

   Well, from what I understood, the movie or what ever it was, didn't just paint the extremists or the terrorist group as being evil.  It was all about painting ALL Muslims and the whole faith of Islam as being evil.  That is what was offensive, and then used their language as subtitles to paint them as being hate mongers.
   
   I think it's like saying that ALL Christians are evil because of the Holy Wars in Eastern Europe.  We wouldn't state that, would we?  And then it's an Arabic movie with English subtitles?  Would we be offended?  You bet.  With rightfulness.
   
   I'm not saying that it's not okay to call out the extremes.  But to paint as a whole brush will cause for some backlash.  It's about the discrimination, not because it's a movie that shows some people are bad.

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      mio cidposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LikaMarie I understand your point,but being offended and outraged is one thing,even protesting against insulting portrayals of a faith or a people can be understood, but taking it to a point where people who had nothing to do with the offending action are raped, murdered, and dragged through the streets is a little too much .Christians engaged in these kind of behaviors centuries ago, these people are still living in that time.

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         Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         rape, murder, dragged through the streets? It's happened to minorities in the USA not that long ago

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            ThompsonPenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It still happens.

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         ThompsonPenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The other thing to consider is their background. They (in Egypt any way) are in the midst of a complete political upheaval. Everything is changing. They are changing their policing system, their constitution - all sorts. And it wasn't too long ago, not even a year ago that the police were so corrupt that it wasn't uncommon for torture to occur. That is all changing at the moment, but with that as a background, knowing the only way to get heard, and that the probability of you getting arrested and tortured is high, wouldn't you make a very loud statement if you only had the one chance?

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   Xenonlitposted 11 years ago

   I have a lot of mixed feelings.
   
   I am angry at Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations for demanding that we make anti Muslim speech a crime. I want to tell them that they will not get away with that arrogant demand.
   
   We have battles with our own deviant religious monsters who want to change our laws in order to force  adherence to their deviant religious dogma. Oppressive Middle Eastern despots are  not welcome into our business right now.
   
   I will remind American Christians about this: When have the Muslim nations insulted or blasphemed against Jesus? They are said to respect him as a great prophet. We could do the same out of respect for their prophet, even if we think that they have some despicable and sick civil societies.
   
   The problem for Egypt is that they are paying for their mistreatment of their own Coptic Christians. It was their own native son who came to America and became a career criminal who aligned with extremists. They can have him back to deal with him there, leaving us out of it.
   
   Most of us are as sick of him as we are of the Koran burning nutcase and other intolerant religious fanatics who support him.
   
   As for Al Qaeda, they serve no good purpose and need to be wiped off the face of the Earth. Bring on the drones.

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      mio cidposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Agree with many of your points , and I'm sure the drones will be getting busy sooner rather than later.

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      ThompsonPenposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      However having said that, many of the protesters that are rallying in the streets and being a part of the "clash" that is happening in Egypt, hold signs which say that this will only strengthen the relationship of Christian and Muslims in Egypt.
      But I do agree that they don't get to demand what we make legal or illegal. Our country was founded on freedom of religion and freedom of speech. However, I don't think that this was an innocent film by any means, and I think it was made with malicious intent. That being my opinion, not fact mind you.

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      Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Quote: "As for Al Qaeda, they serve no good purpose and need to be wiped off the face of the Earth. Bring on the drones."
      
      Yeah? Dead easy that one. You've been watching too many movies. Those drones have slaughtered many innocent people. You should learn something properly combating terrorism. It starts with ending injustice and oppression which breeds the terrorism not firing lethal missiles

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         HowardBThinameposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         SKicker - that's been proven wrong numerous times. What "injustice" are you talking about? What is in our power to end? Appeasement is viewed as weakness and it foster more extremism. Combating terrorism requires quick and decisive actions. Not pandering.

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            Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What injustice???
            
            *US support for the illegal occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territories
            * The overthrow of Mossadeq by the CIA and MI6 in Iran, 1953
            * US support for the repressive dictatorship of the Shah of Iran
            * CIA support of Suharto's slaughter of 200,000 in Moslem Indonesia in the 60's
            * The constant US veto in the UN supporting Israel's crimes
            * The American weapons that Israel uses to slaughter Palestinians and commit war crimes
            * The huge military arms support for Egyptian tyranny
            * The US backing for the elite Saudi Arabians, one of the most repressive regimes in the Middle East
            * The genocide of Iraqis initiated by Clinton with sanctions and continued by George W. Bush by illegal war
            * The lack of US support for the Bahrain Arab Spring
            * Constant threats against Iran by USA and Israel
            * Atrocities committed by G.I.'s in Afghanistan and Iraq
            * The killing of civilians by unmanned drones

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   Shil1978posted 11 years ago

   I don't buy the "anger at US foreign policy in the Middle East" argument. That surely doesn't explain the reaction the Danish cartoons got. There were protests across the Islamic world to that as well resulting in hundreds of deaths (much of it were the protesters themselves I should add, who died in firing by the police in those countries).
   
   Point being, if the "anger at US foreign policy in the Middle East" argument were to be believed, then one wonders what "injustices" or "crimes" the Danish Government perpetrated on Islamic countries or Muslims across the world?
   
   I mean why should the United States or its policies be held responsible for the actions of ONE filmmaker? These generalizations are convenient and so are put forth without rhyme or reason. I don't want to speculate on why you have the sort of reactions you see in the Islamic world to this film, but it certainly isn't because of US policies. Religious figures and ideas are ridiculed across religions, but for some reason, it is only when it relates to Islam, does one see such reactions, unfortunately. It is sad and a cause for introspection in the Islamic community.
   
   I mean if the folks who are protesting this (and some very violently) had just chosen to ignore this, this video wouldn't have gotten the amount of views or the attention that it has. It isn't a masterpiece of a film that was made, but it is getting more attention than it deserves because of the headlines it has been grabbing as a result of the totally disproportionate response it has gotten in the streets and among the protesters.

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      rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It's like boiling a pot of water, it starts out as tolerable in the beginning when soon it becomes too hot to survive the heat. The same thing applies to the Middle East. At first the occupation of Palestine was tolerable and then the Israelis turned up the heat by taking more and more of it from the local people.Then you add an outside source such as the US supplying the arms and political arm and it is becomming a powderkeg.

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         Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The occupation of Palestine has never been tolerable. It has always been a brutal and illegal military occupation that breaches UN Resolutions, the Geneva Convention and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

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            rhamsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I meant tolerable by us the theives that gave away something we had no right to give away.

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      Shinkickerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Have you asked the Arabs about US foreign policy? They'll tell you it's precisely why there is anger over there. The Danish example is different, there hasn't been a long-term issue with that country unlike the USA

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