Einstein's "God" letter sells for $3million+

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   Mark Knowlesposted 12 years ago

   Einstein's letter to Eric B. Gutkind where he (Einstein) expressed is disdain for God and the Bible has just sold fof $3,000,100.00
   
   http://wp.me/p2Jz2C-9B
   
   Perhaps the salient point is this:
   
   The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
   
   Which will (one can but hope) put an end to the constant barrage of theists claiming that Einstein believed in majik.
   
   The actual auction is here:
   
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Albert-Einstein … 7675.l2557
   
   Prophecy - this was bought by a religionist who will doctor it and it will eventually reappear saying Einstein believed in Majik..........

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      aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      ....meanwhile back in the present, here is another relevant video to see for those who want to know what is happening now, and who do not clutch at one mans' beliefs (at that time) and which could have changed.
      
      Every believer has at one time been unaware or resistant to the existence of God.
      
      No believer is born a believer, all have to choose it as their path to follow.
      
      This video (for those who will watch it) explains a whole lot that most folk never hear about.
      
      What I particularly like is the multi-faith content that agrees on salient points.
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTq0xjJa … plpp_video

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         Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Please stop trying to derail the thread Aguasilver. That is against the Hubpages TOS. I know it must bite to know that one of the World's Greatest Thinkers thought your religion childish, but still..
         
         This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. You will try and stamp out any that have a different opinion.
         
         Thankfully you can no longer burn us at the stake.
         
         To Whit - Einstein's opinion on your religion:
         
         http://wp.me/p2Jz2C-9B
         
         "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
         
         What do you think?

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            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Does not bite me whatsoever, what he thought on religion is of no consequence either way, and one comment against; which differs from other comments giving credence, actually has no relevance to what is happening in the (spiritual) world.
            
            If anything, being "one of the World's Greatest Thinkers" would be exactly the conditions required to detach from our spiritual side and only see the physical, as a scientist.
            
            Of course had he been studying and thinking about spiritual matters, his conclusions would have been interesting to observe.
            
            Guess from the short time lapse between our posts, you did not actually watch the video, which is a great pity, as I think it may help you recognise where your obsessions come from.
            
            "This is why your religion causes so many conflicts. You will try and stamp out any that have a different opinion."
            
            Now THAT is pot calling the kettle black! 

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               Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Interesting that you felt the need to immediately post some YouTube stuff in an attempt to negate what he thought if it doesn't bite.
               
               Why would I want to watch the video? You have posted numerous Liars For Jesus videos before and I value my time. Odd you think this video is worth watching, but you give no weight to Einstein's thoughts.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Read the letter, he was thinking about them and he did offer his conclusions. That is the point of this thread and the letter.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  "Childish," was the term he used if I remember correctly.

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            HeadlyvonNogginposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's also quite well documented that the order he saw in the universe suggested to him the existence of a God....
            "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
            
            Einstein rejected the label atheist, which he associated with certainty regarding God's nonexistence. Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Ein … ious_views)

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               Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               None of which changes his utter disdain for your religion - which he called "Childish."
               
               Hey - I would believe in Spinoza's God if it would keep the theists quiet.

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               pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               @headly u r right....he thought abrahamic religions as funny and primitive but he didnt reject god...

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                  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  OK, Albert was entitled to his opinion, and intelligent enough to recognise that God cannot be ruled out of the equation, that's fine, and he thought organised religion was childish, well so do I on occasion, but that does not change my relationship with God through Christ.
                  
                  Mountain from a molehill, but I'm glad somebody made a few bucks from the letter.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     It sold for a lot less than expected. Only 2 bids as well.

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                        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        So really, not much interest!
                        
                        Like I said, a mountain made out of a molehill...

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Yeah - $3,000,100.00 for a single letter.

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                              aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Agreed... what a chump to spend that much for a single letter that does not even reflect his lifetime output, just a letter to a chum.
                              
                              Still, credit where due, I doubt anyone will buy our letters!

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                                 Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Haven't written a letter in a while...

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                     pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     @agua the letter was never written to alter ur relationship with christ...it was written to express his view...and god is biggest business...one can write pro god or anti god and it would pour money....

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                        aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Not seen that work out in practise!

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                           pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Irrelevant, we already know there is very little that can change your mind about religion. The point of this thread is not to accomplish that mission, but instead, an attempt to have believers show a bit of honesty by not misrepresenting Einsteins religious thoughts and conclusions.
                     
                     
                     
                     The smallest molehill of dishonesty will outweigh the mountain.

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Ah, I see your overactive imagination is still functioning.

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                  HeadlyvonNogginposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Substance, ATM, substance. If you disagree with what I said, then state why. On what basis. I didn't know Einstein personally, I only go by what I read. If I'm wrong, show me where or how. Be specific. From what I can tell it is well documented that while he didn't believe in a personal God he did not reject the existence of a God. Obviously you have something to add that could maybe help us all understand better. Please share.

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         Sonnebornposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "No believer is born a believer, all have to choose it as their path to follow"
         
         I don't necessarily agree with this statement.  I know that nobody is born a believer, but a lot of believers upbringing is the root of their beliefs.  I for one was unwillingly raised a catholic by my parents and believed and followed it for a long time because I was not old enough to know any better.  Eventually I became old enough to make my own decisions and I reasoned myself out of Christianity and made the choice to not associate with it anymore.  I do believe that many people just take the religion that was forced upon them at birth for granted and stick with it because it is most convenient for them. 
         Kinda like santa.  Nobody is born a santa believer, but  your parents tell  you he is real.  Eventually they let you know they were lying, but if nobody ever told  you might go on believing he is real your whole life thinking that you chose to believe in his existence even though it was imprinted into your thoughts at a young age.

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            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            My point was from Gods perspective.
            
            What parents may indoctrinate their children with is not the issue, the point is that God requires each person to conclude for themselves whether He exists and whether He will be Lord of their lives or they will.
            
            The enemy frequently uses token religious folk to 'inoculate' children against God with their over zealous or oppressive activity.
            
            If you have decide to be your own god, so be it.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Wonderful that you know what God is thinking. :lol
               
               Still - please can we keep the discussion on course instead of preaching at us that you know wot god wants - yet again.

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                  ytbot1xposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Received fake sunglasses from Ebay. What now?
                  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index … 219AAU8XOO
                  
                  
                  Limitation of Liability, eBay
                  
                  "We try to keep eBay and its sites, services, and tools safe, secure, and functioning properly.  You acknowledge that we cannot guarantee the continuous operation of or access to our sites, services, or tools.  You further acknowledge that operation of and access to our sites, services, or tools may be interfered with as a result of technical issues or numerous factors outside of our control.  You agree that you are making use of our sites, services, and tools at your own risk, and that they are being provided to you on an "AS IS" and "AS AVAILABLE" basis".
                  
                  http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/use … ml?fb=true

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               If you can't use that line of reasoning in a court of law because they'll haul you away for psychiatric evaluation, what makes you think you can use it here?

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  He is just trying to distract from the fact that some one paid $3 MILLION for Einstein's letter in which he says:
                  
                  http://wp.me/p2Jz2C-9B
                  
                  The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

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                     AndReallposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Hey pretty! Mark, where is the dark horse of religion? Don't trust eBay? Nope, the mugs believe it!

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               pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               @agua it is your perceptive about god's perceptive...

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Interviews with brain dead, deluded mystics who ramble on about various realms? ROTFLMAO

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      ytbot1xposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Stop posting links to fake 'news', Evo

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      Oztinatoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      https://hubpages.com/education/forum/34 … god-letter

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      Oztinatoposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      There is no available provenance-of-einsteins-god-letter.
      The signature on the letter has serious flaws.
      The earliest date I can find for it on the internet is 2008.
      Also there is an anonymous personage involved in its recent sales.
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   it is obvious that bible is collection of myths and fairy tales...some are copied from others while some are original...at best it can give harry potter a run for money....i guess in 100 yrs down the line it would be taken as literature work than any divine work...einstein was right in this...it is primitive , though creative in parts attempt of semi literate people who barely could make sense of their world...we must respect their attempt but taking their attempt to answer to question seriously would be too naive thing to do...it is really great that bible doesnot run world any more or else we would still be in middle ages...

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   jacharlessposted 12 years ago

   And he, as well as many others, share this common belief. "God" is not something/someone who would appear on a snowy white cloud, with thunder in his hands nor reaching down with a finger to touch the finger of Moses. Every Hebrew knows g/God is a term used to replace a mental, emotional and spiritual ineptness of understanding the Ineffable Everything that is everywhere, in everything -including//especially humans. The word/term g/God or g/G-d is redundancy. And to many others that word is a complete bastardization of said Ineffable. In others words: disrespectful.And once more his elegance and respect for the compilation of texts. He did not "dis" the text. He simply makes it clear that text is fruitless to bring about the aforementioned understanding. It is a primitive approach to wisdom to engaging the universe, creation.Nothing to disagree with. He summarizes his personal belief on the text, yet still respects what is it and those who rely on it.
   
   So, let's call the spade a spade. If Einstein, a brilliant man, thinker, human of humans respects others beliefs, regardless of personal perspective, Marcus (et alii), why can you not do the same -should you hold this man and his words in any certain degree of high regard? Have you nothing better to do with your limited choice of life-death then "put it in the face" of another why you do/do not prefer another's ideas? Then the audacity to crow: "No wonder why your religion causes fights, conflicts, wars" -yet you yourself cannot//nor make a genuine effort to stop one fight, one conflict, one war...
   
   Shakes head. Silly atheist/theist, humanism is for chumps. ha!
   James.
   
   EDIT: 11.28  Interesting thread though. And am now over it. Looks like someone else beat you to the $3million dollar payout. Enjoy your conflict. {LAWL?}

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      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Product of human weakness.
      Primitive.
      Pretty childish.
      
      Interesting definition of "respect." No wonder your religion causes so many conflicts. Sorry - you don't get a free pass from me Jim Bob.
      
      I am still thinking the adulterated version will be back out in a few years.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   I think it is sad that people want to use Einstein's opinions to prop up their own. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Einstein, but his opinion on religion is about as interesting and informed as would be the Dali Lama attempting to teach a class in string theory. Who cares? And why?

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      aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You said what I have been trying to say, just much better! +1

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         Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Interesting that you are not interested in what one of the foremost thinkers of our time has to say about your religion. How funny that you keep coming back to say so. The fact is - no one is more qualified than anyone else to have an opinion in this area. You are no more qualified than I for example. And Emily attacks anything she doesn't understand.
         
         But Einstein was a great thinker who clearly gave this some thought.
         
         "Childish," was his respectful opinion.
         
         I concur.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Funny how you belittle the things you don't understand, by accusing others of attacking. The hypocrisy abounds.
            
            The point isn't that Einstein's opinion didn't count. It is that Einstein's opinion should carry no more weight than yours.  By giving it so much weight, you allow your religion to create conflict. In yourself and your relationship with others.

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               Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Perhaps you could explain what you think you understand that I do not?
               
               I was merely pointing out that Einstein's opinion in writing sold for more than 3 million dollars - which is rather interesting.  And certainly lends credence to the fact that some one gives it weight. Sorry you didn't get that and needed to belittle me as usual.
               
               It is odd - I have never seen you do anything other than contradict and attack others. Why is that?
               
               Troll much?

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Unlike yourself, I don't consider an opposing opinion evidence of trolling. It's a pity that you fear diversity.
                  
                  And, my original post was merely that it was sad that anyone needed to lend credence to the opinion of anyone, who is a lay person on a subject, in the neighborhood of three million dollars. Sorry this offends you.
                  
                  Stop searching for conflict Mr. Knowles. It's very unhealthy.

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Silly - there is nothing other than lay opinions on this subject. You are not offering an opposing opinion. You are attempting to start an argument with me as usual.
                     
                     Still didn't tell me what it is that you understand that you think I do not.
                     
                     Troll much?

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                        Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Your perception is skewed. As appears to be the norm. I offered an opinion. You see it as being argumentative. I see it as a different opinion. I prefer opposing opinions to droll and regurgitative agreement. We aren't simpatico. How sad.
                        
                        Let's be friends.
                        
                        Rah Rah siss boom bah!!! Go Mr Knowles! Go! Whatever you say is great!
                        
                        Is that along the lines of posts you are looking for?

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           No - my perception is not skewed. Your opinion was that "I think it is sad that people want to use Einstein's opinions to prop up their own."
                           
                           This is not offering an alternative opinion - it is a direct statement regarding me personally. It is troll behavior.

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                              Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Are you rich? Did you buy the letter?
                              
                              Let's back this up. People argue over what Einstein thought. The religious want to insist that Einstein believed in God. As if that validates their belief. The non religious are offended that anyone would insult the memory of the man by insisting he believed in God. As if his non belief validates theirs.
                              
                              Why is his opinion on the matter important? Why is anyone's in the final analysis?
                              
                              We appear to be a species constantly looking for consensus. Don't you every wonder why? Are we that insecure and unsure of our own ability to think what we want?

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                                 Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 No - I didn't buy the letter. Nor would I if I had 3 million to waste.
                                 
                                 I just found it interesting that some one did. I also find it interesting how often religious people claim that Einstein believed in god. I don't find it offensive - I just find it entertaining. We never look for consensus. I have never seen you agree with anyone over anything, so what species is this?
                                 
                                 But - if that was not meant as an opinion on me, then what? You are jealous that some one else could afford the letter and then project your own inadequacies on them? You assume that the person who bought the letter is some how using that to validate their own opinion? Why would you assume that?
                                 
                                 Perhaps the person who bought it wants to protect the letter intact to prevent religious liars from changing it? Perhaps the person is a religious liar intending on hiding it? Or maybe they are just a fan of Einstein? Who knows? I certainly don't.
                                 
                                 Either way - I found it interesting. I also found it interesting what Einstein thought of religion.  You don't. Great - why say anything then?

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                                    Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    If the person who bought the letter had joined Hub Pages and started a thread I might think they were using the letter to validate their opinion. And, no. I'm not jealous. I do, however, think some people have more money than they know what to do with
                                    
                                    And if you don't think we crave consensus, review your behavior on this thread when you encountered an opposing opinion.

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                                       Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       What opposing opinions are these?

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                                          Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          
                                          
                                          Enjoy your trolling.

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                                             Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                             So - nothing then?
                                             
                                             ciao

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   Motown2Chitownposted 12 years ago

   I sort of wonder how many of the folks participating in this thread have actually read the entire excerpt.  I mention this because there is a portion of it that says far more about Einstein than even the beginning where he expresses his disdain for the monotheistic religions of Judaism and Christianity.  Rather than getting angry, defensive, or becoming disappointed with the brilliant man, try paying attention to the advice he gives toward the end of the excerpt.
   
   How about this for example:  "Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e; in our evaluations of human behavior. What separates us are only intellectual ‘props’ and ‘rationalization’ in Freud’s language. Therefore I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things."
   
   I noticed in this thread that the first thing most folks tried to do was to debunk the opening paragraphs.  It can't be done.  He didn't stutter.  It didn't appear to me that Einstein wasn't quite sure about what he meant to say.  He left NO room for interpretation.
   
   Thankfully, he left no room for interpretation toward the e.nd, either.  Right there is the answer.  Talk about concrete things.  Understand that there will be things on which we agree. 
   
   So many of us get so annoyed with each other in these forums...but when we set aside the battle gear and talk about concrete things...wow.  Things can really happen.
   
   Think about it.
   
   

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      Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thinking.
      
      Concrete things.

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