At Least Trump is not THEM

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   Live to Learnposted 8 years ago

   The best I can figure the Trump phenomenon, from listening to co-workers and reading comments on line is that the primary thing Trump has to offer is that he isn't Clinton, or Sanders, or Cruz or Rubio.
   
   The man has no ideas to offer any details on. It is just 'gonna be great' or 'gonna make great deals' or 'the Bible is the best'. All we know about him is that he is brash, insulting, prone to making either racist or misogynistic statements; will not take responsibility for anything but simply claims he is being targeted because of one reason or another and appears to be wealthy.
   
   But, he isn't Clinton, or Sanders, or Cruz or Rubio.
   
   Pushed on any details we see nothing to substantiate the claim that he has even the slightest grasp of what he is talking about. He simply claims he'll get 'good people. The best.' Don't get me wrong. I think it is possible for a bright person to gather a group of great people and accomplish great things. I simply don't see a lot of brightness in Trump. I see a man who pushes and pushes and bullies his way to his goals.  A man who is so insecure that if he is not constantly petted and fawned on he grows increasingly peevish.
   
   But, he isn't Clinton, or Sanders, or Cruz or Rubio.
   
   Although, the fact that he isn't Clinton, or Sanders, or Cruz or Rubio is a good thing. We don't need another Clinton, or Sanders, or Cruz or Rubio to run our country. I can't see that we can survive a Donald Trump. Are people behind this buffoon simply because they are sick and tired of politics as usual or am I just missing something here? What, exactly, are Donald Trump's saving qualities?  Keep in mind that I don't consider paying for your own campaign a saving quality.
   
   I see a great debacle ahead either way we go (looking at the two front runners). I cannot imagine supporting Hillary but Trump is, without a doubt, the least civil person I have ever seen run for public office. I would like someone to point out a saving grace so I can attempt to stomach this uncouth man.

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      ahorsebackposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      You need to listen to his spokes people , his campaigning sons ,  his politi- business plans and comparisons   , I suggest "Patriot" -Sirius radio ,  Brietbart , or  , Andrew  Wilkow for  a couple  .  These guys  are all about answers , but not he usual poilit-speak junk . these guys hold a candidates feet to the fire .
      
      You're right though ,Trump is not them , and even if THAT"S all we get ......we win !

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      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Trump is Wall Streets shoe in for Hillary. It is the best deal for them. They have not committed much to Cruz in his efforts to unseat Trump and Rubio is playing in the masters game and losing for it. Hillary was always going to win and is methodically going about doing it. The abysmal turn out on the Dems side will defeat Bernie and strengthen Hillary in a race against the unimaginable, Trump. My vote will be against the moneyed interests and always will be. If Bernie does not get in, and it now looks that way, my vote will go to Trump even though he will lose.
      
      The funniest thing is that we want a crook in the White House. Hillary, who will have committees and prosecutors chasing after her, and Trump whose business dealings will dog him the entire way is the best we have to vote for? Nothing new here.

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         Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I know there is a tendency for the American public to rally behind the lowest common denominator (i.e. Bill Clinton) but this election cycle shows that we have sunk to our lowest level in my lifetime.

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      RJ Schwartzposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Mr. Trump actually published policy papers in recent months.  I'd say that is more than qualifying information on how he intends to proceed.  He's always been known to surround himself with highly capable people, so I'll take the risk that he will be effective.  If everyone in DC is afraid of him, then he's the right person for the people.

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         colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I have been keeping up with reading Trump's policies, and they are good.  Knowing Trump is a good business man, he has left leeway for negotiating to get his policies through.  Unity!

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      PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Trump supporters, the ones who truly like him, are thinking with their lizard brains.  They don't care about his positions on the issues; they just like that he's "tough" and "not politically correct" and "tells it like it is." 
      
      Well, my Aunt Dorothy (fake name, real aunt), who is "crazy as a bessie bug" (Uncle Carl's words), is not politically correct and tells it like it is.  Shall we elect her?  Heck, I'm sure Andrew Dice Clay is available.  How about him? 
      
      As far as "tough" goes, Drumpf is about as tough as a ripe banana.  His feefees get hurt at the slightest criticism and he responds with childish Twitter rants and stupid insults that the lizard brains eat right up. 
      
      I'm appalled to see that some non-lizard brains are thinking of voting for Trump.  You really want that guy for President?  Really?  WTF is wrong with you?  (not you, Live to Learn, but the non-lizard brains who would vote for such a man).

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         Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         My son just played me an interview with Trump. Everything they asked him about he had no answers for. All he would say is 'My first day in office I'll know more about this than you do.' He's an idiot, or enjoys acting like one.
         
         I hope, if he gets the Republican nomination, he doesn't show up at the debates with Clinton with ignorant answers like that. If he does, and he wins anyway, I'll be so disappointed in the American public I'll probably lie about my nationality when abroad.

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Ugh, I was embarrassed when GWB was president; Trump will be infinitely worse.  Remember when Dubya gave Angela Merkel a shoulder massage?  Can you imagine Trump sharing a room with world leaders?
            
            GAG!
            
            

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               rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Maybe that Iraqi reporter can throw his other shoe at him. LOL

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                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol, "tough" Donald Trump can't even handle Megyn Kelly, much less a shoe-throwing Iraqi.

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            It doesn't matter that he doesn't know what the H he's talking about.  He tells it like it is! And he's not PC!  And their lizard brains LOVE him for it!

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               GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               It sounds like you have a very clear picture of someone you deem a "lizard brain." I cringe as I make this assumption, but in the context of its use, it seems lizard brain is not a good thing. Kinda like "dumb as a rock."
               
               Unless I got that wrong, you might remember this old discussion about the description of a Trump supporter;
               "...Non college educated white guys and southern white males, we know where most of their sentiments lie..... They have always believed these outrageous things, ..." http://hubpages.com/politics/forum/1346 … ost2793747
               
               When I consider the percentage of voters supporting Trump, I am very reluctant to consider myself qualified to declare that many people, from such a broad demographic, (I think the other thread's description, similar to your "Lizard Brain," of Trump supporters was ably proven wrong), as dumb rednecks, ignoramuses, or "lizard brains."
               
               Such a broad declaration might suit such defined groups as the Klan, or other extreme or extremist  groups, but is it suited for such a broad spectrum as the social demographics of Trump supporters?
               
               Lizard brains sounds so condescending, are you that confident?
               
               GA

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                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Lizard brain is a common term for the lymbic system of the brain, which is considered to be primitive. The limbic system controls basic emotions such as fight, flight, fear, and  feeding.
                  
                  While it might sound condescending, I  don't think it's out of line to say that Trump appeals to emotion over reason. This does not mean that those who love him are stupid, but that they are supporting him because he plays to their fear and their need to feel safe. I challenge you to ask every Trump supporter you know why they like him.  If you find one who says it's  because of his policies,  and he or she can accurately convey what those policies are, take a picture because it's a rare specimen.
                  
                  Edited to add: Trump knows his fans. He himself stated he could shoot somebody and not lose voters.

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                     GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Damn! Now you see why I cringed at the thought of making an assumption.
                     
                     I don't recall hearing this "lizard brain" description before. But your explanation validly crushes my incorrect assumption. Even more crushing is that I think I have to agree with the appropriateness of your use of it relative to Trump.
                     
                     *The curmudgeon in me doesn't like to agree with people. And I don't care for humble pie either. Pass the ketchup please.
                     
                     GA

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                        PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I respect a man or woman who can recognize and admit when he or she has been mistaken.  You are not thinking with your lizard brain.  :-)

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                           GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           That is because I have had practice. I thought I was mistaken once before, back in 78', but I was wrong then too.
                           
                           GA

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      2. 77

         Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I think the 'lizard brains' are voting for Trump because they have realized that the system, the establishment, the politicians just feed them a bunch of BS during election time, and then go and do whatever they want to do... regardless of what the majority of Americans want.
         
         Americans are tired of it...and honestly anyone who hasn't come to the realization yet that these politicians just promise you what you want to hear, and then go back to doing whatever they want, are the ones being duped... the ones who are 'lizard brains'.
         
         Trump if nothing else, made himself into an Icon, made himself into a billionaire, and is beholden to no one in the 'establishment'... which makes him head and shoulders more accomplished and more capable than anyone else running.

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            Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I see what you mean and I can agree with some of it. Although, I don't trust Trump any more than I trust the rest of them not to enrich themselves and their cronies through the position and to put those interests above those of the average american citizen.
            
            But we can, at the least, say that Donald Trump has been 'onstage' for the perusal of the public for quite some time now and the Trump on the debate stage is pretty much a mirror image of the idiot who starred in a reality tv show. He appears to be too enthralled with himself to change who he is. So, we get what we get. No surprises. And, unless he gets some handlers who can actually handle him, we'll get an honest response when we complain that he didn't deliver on all of his promises. Another boony.
            
            All in all, I'm beginning to get a better understanding of the phenomenon. I listened to a junior senator lamenting the fact that Trump didn't adhere to Republican values and should not be nominated the Republican candidate. And, I realized that this was my whole problem with the party I had identified with my whole life. Many of their 'values' were tearing this country apart for no good reason and shoving moderates and compassionate conservatives such as myself to the wayside.
            
            If his nomination does nothing more than to show the Republican party that they will have to allow power to be wrested from the religious right and distributed more equally among the people who are drawn to the fiscal ideals of the party it will accomplish some good.
            
            I suppose I have been so focused on my horrified belief that his nomination would clinch a Hillary presidency that I didn't look forward beyond that. Maybe, I'm wrong. Maybe this buffoon can be just what we need. Maybe, I'm right. We'd end up with a demagogue who fumbles his way into a World War.

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               Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Well the truth is, that buffoon has more experience and credibility to be President than the three stooges running against him still.  An argument could be made for Kasich, but the other two aren't qualified to run a Dunkin Donuts shop, let alone the country.
               And just who do the Republicans represent... not the Evangelicals a large part of that group voted fro Trump...  not the middle class hard working stiffs, they have been voting for Trump.
               SO the Republicans are showing they represent the elite, the establishment that has been running this country into the ground, running our wages down, or working hours down, or jobs out of the country... they represent corporate America, rich America... and they pander to the moral conservatives with talk of religion and anti-abortion. 
               Anyone not rich who votes for THIS Republican party, the 'conservatives' who do not support Trump, or the new voters who support him, is a dupe, a chump, or just too old and out of touch to realize what the Party now represents.

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                  Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Oh do make a case for Kasich, please. I like him.
                  
                  I agree that the other two are beneath our notice but what experience does Donald Trump have? He's a real estate developer. A reality tv star.There are more differences than similarities between president of a real estate company and president of the Unites States of America. We'd better clue Trump in to that before he gets elected or his first task in office might be to attempt to declare bankruptcy.

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Trump "is" the establishment.  Not establishment politician, but he's buying himself a presidency, just like everyone else does.

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      Onusonusposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      

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      Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Trump has as detailed plans as anyone running.  He has taken as bold a stand on many topics as any candidate.  But they don't discuss them, and he doesn't discuss them in debates and interviews because he knows that 99% of the people aren't going to listen to them, and our media isn't going to focus on them... they focus on the one sentence or one moment of note, spend an entire day talking about it... and then move on to the next moment of note from the next person under the microscope.

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      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      This man Trump plays on the emotions of people. I hope that the GOP nominates him and force the American people to make stark choices next fall. Hillary Clinton is not my first choice BUT ANYONE is BETTER THAN Donald Trump, 'Lord of the Flies'. Both Clinton and Trump have high negatives.
      
      Ken Burgess, you allow Trump a 'pass' for not discussing his plans in detail and that 99 percent of the people are not listening to specific plans, just bile spewed from a demogogue? You will allow that excuse for Trump not making clear what his intentions are outside generalities and platitudes?

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         Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Some might suggest that Mark Antony was better than Caius Cassius

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         Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Trump has plans... detailed plans... reviewed by qualified advisors
         More media lies spewed when they say he has no plans
         Just shows how dumbed down Americans are... some schmuck on radio or tv says he has no plans, and people parrot it like its gospel.
         
         Donald Trump Economic Plan Part 1 – Tax the Rich:  He proposed simplifying it and also targeting hedge fund profits. Trump has said he will lower taxes for the middle class. In order to achieve this, he argued, the rich must be taxed. He added that he doesn't mind having to pay taxes at a higher rate, as a billionaire.
         
         Donald Trump Economic Plan Part 2 – Get Rid of Corporate Inversion: "Corporate inversion" is a strategy businesses adopt to reduce their own tax burden. When corporate inversion occurs, a company is reincorporated abroad by a foreign business, which takes over all the assets and operations therein. Trump's solution is to lower corporate taxes. This will prevent American companies from being enticed by foreign nations. Right now, the United States has the highest corporate tax rate among major industrial nations. The U.S.'s effective tax rate of 35.6% on new corporate investment is nearly twice the average rate for other nations.
         
         Donald Trump Economic Plan Part 3 – Lower the Debt Ceiling.
         
         Donald Trump Economic Plan Part 4 – In Trump's book "Time to Get Tough," he stated he believes there should be a 20% tax on imported goods and a 15% tax on U.S. companies that outsource. Trump has also said he wants a 35% tax on imported cars, especially those built in Canada and Mexico.
         
         THIS is why the CORPORATE Media is out to destroy him this is why the 'establishment' politicians in the GOP are out to destroy him... Trump HAS a plan... his plan will save America  and INVIGORATE its economy and bring back millions of jobs... at the EXPENSE of Corporate profits and billionaire bank accounts.

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            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you for providing that, is that donaldtrump.com?

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Interesting how he is not able to articulate his detailed plans when asked about them.  Wonder who wrote them?

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         colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         You could try reading what Trump's policy plans are.  I wouldn't expect someone in the forums to play secretary for me and go fetch information I can well search for and read for myself.  I'm not lazy, I love to read.
         Be in the know! 

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            I just wonder if Trump has read them, since he can't seem to articulate them when asked, but hey, I'm sure he has a secretary who can look them up for him.

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      Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

      So it begins, something new for the kids "Trump Youth"?
      
      http://news.yahoo.com/bears-weight-dona … 00684.html

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         Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I hope those kids were suspended, or expelled. Trump's a jerk whose ego is too large to think about himself rationally enough to know he is a jerk. And do something to better himself.
         
         Although, I will say we as a people appear to be inclined to be unwilling to listen to other opinions and find the good in them; even when they stray from our own. He is, in many ways, a caricature of what our society has become. The worst of us, but still a product of us.

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            Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for checking the link.
            
            Concur, it is bad enough for the adults, but the kids?
            
            The kids that are taunting  the kids with the darker skin tone Hispanics, do not even knowing whether they are 'illegal' or not.  Trump feigns ignorance about this matter, but he plants seeds that he full well knows will lead to this sort of fruit. What role do the parents of the taunting children have indirectly in what the kids are parroting at school? 
            
            Hitler Youth was based on the premise that the children of the group were encouraged  to evaluate each other from a racial point of view. This is an ill-wind.
            
            So is it about 'illegal immigration' or is it about race?

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               Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I think it is reasonable to assume that even if it isn't about race behavior such as this, unchecked, will soon become about race. But Trump didn't plant this seed. It was already there, maybe. Kids aren't known for their compassion. I do wonder how the school systems reacted.
               
               But. We had an article in the paper around here. One high school went to play a basketball game at another high school and a song came on the loudspeakers that repeatedly used a term degrading of African Americans. Everyone was horrified. The school administrators reacted quickly and strongly. It sounded like racism. No one would condone it and whatever it took to stamp it out was promised. But, it turned out it was an African American kid who thought he had downloaded the clean version of some rap song. It couldn't have been racism, considering the circumstances. It was just an unfortunate and embarrassing incident. I noticed that the explanation of events didn't make front line news like the first assumptions did.
               
               We love to think the worst of others and the news media feeds us what we love. It doesn't always pan out that that is a fair representation of events.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I wonder if it is going to be checked? Seems like this phenomenon is geographically across over the country. And, yes kids are mean, but they get much of their ammunition from parents, what subconscious messages do they send. Unlike isolated and unfortunate misunderstandings, the issues revolving around Trump's policies are not a flash in the pan.
                  
                  I can only hope that it will 'blow away' and Trump does not exacerbate things by pouring more fuel on the fire.

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                     Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I am with you there.

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               GA Andersonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Oh my gawd... "Hitler Youth?" Is that really the box you want to be in?
               
               GA

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            Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            The jerks are the criminals people keep electing back to Washington over and over again.
            Trump did not let American jobs fly to foriegn lands.
            Trump did not take money from lobbyists/Wallst. to make himself rich.
            Trump did not raise your taxes or double your Insurance payments.
            Trump did not leave any US soldiers in Benghazzi to be slaughtered and desecrated by Muslims.
            Trump did not send the US Navy to fight for Syrian Al-Qaeda.
            Trump did not arm ISIS and let them systematically exterminate Christians throughout the Middle East.
            Trump did not betray Israel.
            Trump did not provide financing and technology to Iran's nuclear weapons program.
            Trump did not give our military secrets to China.
            Trump did not shrivel our military, and betray our veterans.
            Trump did not increase our national debt to 20 trillion dollars.
            Trump did not make it legal for millions of illegals to remain in America.
            Trump did not double African American unemployment.
            Trump did not increase welfare to a record level for seven years.
            Trump did not set free all of terrorists in Guantanamo bay.
            Trump did not steal your rights, violate US Constitutional law, or commit treason, hundreds of times.
            
            Yet Trump is being ripped apart in the news, non stop. Why is that I wonder?
            
            Save America's future. Stop listening to them.

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               Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Only because Trump, has not been in authoritative position to create terrors of his own creation, thank goodness. Put him in charge and he will make this litany of yours no more significant than the print that you find  on a Chinese fortune cookie, in comparison
               
               I guess we are just going to have to see, because I don't believe a thing he says.

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               Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Trump may not have done any of those things. Unfortunately, as POTUS he will have the power and the resources to do any of that, and then some.
               
               It is about character. What his is and what we think it will make him do, as POTUS.  I see potential in Trump, but there is also great danger. He didn't just appear in our world. We have been able to watch his character over the years and compare it to the character we are seeing as he runs for the nomination.  He has been consistent with my previous assessment of him. I'll give him that. Egotistical, narcissistic, thin skinned, vindictive, bullying, ill mannered and misogynistic.. He has added racism and fear mongering to his repertoire. And a dash of making fun of the disabled. Now, it could be argued that he is simply attempting to garner votes (if so he has done a bang up job of that) but I think that is truly what the man thinks. Many of his supporters eat it up because, by what we are seeing at the rallies, they are the same way.
               
               Now, Trump is a 'you get what you see' kind of guy and that is likable. I don't think there are going to be any surprises. We aren't going to find out he secretly adopted a Syrian family to sponsor out of the war torn area. We aren't going to find out he spent millions to build a state of the art shelter for abused kittens. He is what he is.
               
               What we have to decide is whether or not he understands that the populace, for the most part, is counting on him (if elected) to simply level the playing field in the economy; set an example in Washington of not being able to be swayed by lobbyists dollars. Create a better system for health care reform than the current debacle we are working with and help get a handle on the national budget.  If he does this, I'll be very impressed and I will be willing to cut him some slack on the areas of his personality that warrant self introspection and change.
               
               However, we have to accept the possibility that his obvious character flaws will cause problems while in the White House.
               
               He is petty and vindictive. That's not something we want to see in a president. There is a lot of power that can be abused.
               
               He is misogynistic. That is not something we want to see in any branch of our government unapologetically displayed.
               
               He is racist. That is not something we need in any branch of our government.
               
               He has made fun of the disabled. That mentality is not something we need to see unapologetically displayed.
               
               He has made it clear he does not understand the limitations in power of the office he is seeking.  That is a problem that has been creeping up in that office for some time and it is not something we need to watch continue to happen.
               
               He claims to be a great communicator and a guy who knows the art of the deal.  Can we honestly believe that? Judging by his statements as a candidate? Judging by the manner in which he has dealt with anyone who he thinks opposes him?
               
               Seriously. I'm gungho on kicking the politicians to the curb and having people who are committed to doing the will of the people in office. People who understand what we expect of our government and what we don't. I just don't see Trump as the guy who will lead the revolution in the right direction. This is a revolution, of sorts, and I am willing to help it along by throwing my vote his way if that is where the nomination goes. But we need to be ever diligent against him also. Playing the tambourines and giving him carte blanche so much that he appears to believe he could kill someone without anyone pausing in their worship of his candidacy is dangerous. He needs to be reined in sooner, rather than later. He is, without a doubt, the guy with the most potential to do harm and the most potential to effect positive change that I've ever seen get this far on the national stage.

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                  rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Trump is pretty much the face of us. He is the Ugly American you find in a café overseas berating a waiter for bringing him the wrong order. He is the businessman so driven by greed and ego he pushes his way forward no matter the impression it may have. He hypnotizes those about him with his wealth and therefore intelligence. So many wish to emulate him and his success. We are Donald Trump. This election will be that defining moment.

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                     Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I am not Donald Trump. I don't think many people are. But, I agree with you that we are more and more perceived that way. Trump is the worst of us. The thing I fear is that the populace tends to play to the lowest common denominator. If we stoop to Trump.....what next?
                     
                     But, as I said. I will support this step in our collective disgust with Washington. I simply hope we survive it.

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                        rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        I concur entirely +++++.

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   Rodeonposted 8 years ago

   Politics merely is a reflection. a collective reflection of the general state of consciousness of a certain people, at a certain place in the world, at a certain point in the history of the cosmos. It's really quite relative that way. Perhaps you all can do nothing about Trump or Chump. You can't change the public's minds to make them choose a better candidate, but where is that better candidate? Do you have the guts yourself to run for office? If not, then leave it there where it should be.
   
   That's how I think anyway. You might not think the same way. So we all evolve spiritually

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   wildernessposted 8 years ago

   We live in interesting times.  Watching the recaps last night, we heard from several commentators that Trump is redefining the Republican party - well, he's doing more than that.  He's redefining what it means to be a politician, and the people are liking it.  The biggest single thing Trump has going for him is that he's NOT "business as usual" on Capital Hill, and he's finding a resonance with the people that we haven't seen in decades. 
   
   It may be a good thing, it may not.  He might be the worst President we've seen in a century, but when he's through politics in this country will have changed for the better.  Trump is mobilizing voters in a way that Clinton can't touch, in a way that hasn't happened since Reagan or earlier, and it's going to be a wake up call for whoever remains on the Hill whether he wins or loses. 
   
   The people are speaking in a loud, clear voice and if it is ignored I think we'll find a lot of new faces in congress as well - we'll see more "Trumps" running for congress on the platform of running the country instead of paying off their masters in legislation designed to accommodate them.  Perot tried but was unable to close the deal (the electorate wasn't disgusted enough at that point?) but Trump has already made a statement that's going to be hard to ignore inside Capital walls. 
   
   I'm with rhamson - if I had to vote today for our next President it would be for Trump.  But I think there's a good chance rhamson is wrong - that Trump has a real shot at the office.  The people are PISSED and wanting a change in how our leaders operate and he's the only choice offering that at all.  I predict a close victory for Clinton as there are still millions of apathetic voters, going along with what's comfortable rather than "progressing" (just had to throw that in! ) to the future, but there's a very real chance that Trump could end up with the highest office in the world.

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      Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is not Trump being a macho political Christ or other official politicians in the capital being outdated actors who are paid for their services. The trouble is that America has only 2 parties. And you can't simply enter a party and speak your mind there in a way that corresponds to true humanity, honesty and moral righteousness.
      
      There is no real democracy when you have only 2 parties running a country. They make agreements like "This year you do this bad thing and voters would dislike you, and they would vote for us the next election. Then we would start doing that bad thing and launch that war and you would get elected afterwards. . ."

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         It isn't the politicians on the Hill that are running the country - it's the VIP's in the party and the people that are paying them and their lackeys (politicians) to do so in a manner that is in the best interests of the deep pockets.  So more parties simply makes more VIP's making a living by shoveling "donations" into the pockets of politicians.  Of course, the desire for power over others comes into play as well.

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            Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I didn't mean that we need more political parties in every country in the world. What I meant wasn't directed in a literal sense.
            
            What I suggested was that democracy is more of a spirit than a balance sheet, and it thrives upon the active participation of the community. With the two party system, you don't really have democracy in the true sense. They make mutual business agreements just as in any marketplace where you have only two companies that sell a product that people really need.
            
            If there are only two stores in a city that have legal license to sell medicine, good God they'll just rob you when you get sick and sell you a cough syrup for five hounded dollars.
            
            
            Having more political parties won't necessarily solve the issue. But the launch of a new independent party composed of the new Facebook and Twitter generation will definitely strike at the root of the blatant passive political exploitation that is going on in America, and elsewhere. Who's responsible for it? Jews, the wealthy Jews? I don't think so. And even if it's they who are behind it, they only exploit a system that is exploitable. And we can't really blame them. It's really the voters everywhere in the world in every democracy who are callous and can't see through the very weakness of the voting machine.
            
            You don't get democracy no matter if the voting machine is gold-plated but all the candidates were taken out of landfills.

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               Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               The solution isn't having more parties. But a new type of political party. New faces and fresh minds, hearts and souls in political offices, everywhere in the world. That's going to change the world.
               
               The constitution allows it. But do we have the courage?

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               wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               The drug stores - our laws prohibit collusion in setting prices, and thus at least help prevent such a scenario (though it does still happen).  But our politicians are encouraged to take bribes; that's how the system is set up.
               
               How about an entity, maybe governmental, maybe government oversight, whereby all bribes ("donations") go through the system and are forwarded to the political party stripped of any indication of where it came from?  Hard to police, but would at least help prevent the "buying" of politicians.

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                  Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, the constitution can not police human conscience. That's something that can not be policed by a book.
                  
                  
                  I told you a while ago that God is a verb, and that mind is a verb too.

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                     Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     For example, how can anyone be so sure that the authors of a political constitution had never seen porn or done things like that? Did we police their very conscience?

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                        wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Why in the world would it matter if they have seen porn?  Or are you setting up to define "conscience" as whatever YOU find wrong?

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                           Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           The point here is that you can't set or define any absolute standard for moral purity. It gets pretty relative in its way.
                           
                           We can set up certain rules and regulations, but people who are willing to outwit them, certainly will. And maybe we can do nothing about that.
                           
                           
                           To put it differently: it's more about the culture of the land, and the culture of the world taken as a whole, that determines whether you will have a true democracy or not. It's very hard to get a true democracy based only on paperwork. You can't control the human mind and spirit based on paperwork. It's something more powerful an element than that. It's easy to outwit paperwork.

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            rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Term limits, publicly financed campaigns and lobby reform is the only Constitutional way. Maybe if enough people see the screwing we are getting in this election cycle, we may be ready for some concrete solutions. Nah, we love the greed too much.

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               wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Term limits, yes.  Publicly financed campaigns I'm not comfortable with - what about the idea that all donations be stripped of any donor information before receipt?  (Not sure how to accomplish that, but is it worth looking at?)

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                  rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  If you don't make funding a non issue it becomes one. As it stands now more money means more influence whether it be positive or negative. Money is the whole reason for these characters to exist and prosper. Take the money away and you are left with a candidacy built on issues. If donations are allowed to be made, the candidate will invariably know who did it and what he can gain from a lucrative "friend".

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                     wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Perhaps the candidate would know, but the point was to take that knowledge away.
                     
                     But publicly funded?  I don't wish my money to go to Clinton, but it would.  And I will run for Pres. every four years - it's an easy life with the public picking up the tab.  Heck, I'll "campaign" for 4 years!

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                        rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        There would be a few caveats to it than just applying for money. One might be how many people you can get to sign a petition determining an amount of available funding you qualify for. Party affiliation might help you there but the parties would be on their own. I am sure there are all sorts of negatives we could come up with but a solution to making the election about issues and not influence should be its' basis.

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                           wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           Yeah, problems with any system.  But I do agree that campaign financing desperately needs an overhaul aimed at preventing the buying of politicians.

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                              Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              You've suggested a system which wipes the names of donors who fuel political parties. That's to me is a paperwork system. When money comes, it will definitely cause a reaction in the mind and spirit of the members of that party. They would already have sold their souls away to someone. And you can't expect such people to bring true democratic spirit and work. As I had said, democracy is more in the spirit and active participation of a community, than it is paperwork. If democracy were in paperwork and balance sheets then we all should have urged Ph.Ds in Mathematics to run for office.
                              
                              The origin of politics lies in spirituality.

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                        colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Sorry, but taxpayers' money goes to Planned Parenthood, and PP donated $20 million to Hillary's campaign.  Historically, they only donate to Democrats, and its not even a government program. 
                        
                        Something fishy there...Money laundering?  I don't want my money going to fund Clinton, but it did.

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                           wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           "The abortion company is pulling out all of the stops to elect its best friend president and its lobbying arm purchased the large advertising buy on Friday to give Clinton a last-minute shot in the arm."
                           
                           In spite of the negative spin (bolded) it does appear that PP is buying ads.  Not a campaign contribution, then, but pretty close.
                           
                           Money laundering?  No, nothing of the kind - just a non-profit in trouble from negative mudslinging from those disliking abortion for anyone.  You can't even say that "your" money went there - it should have been kept separate (on paper) from fees charged.  Not that it makes a difference in the long run unless big donors specified what to do with their donation (quite possible to avoid donation laws).

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                              colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              Thoughts!   

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                              Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              Well, do you think that people, the very people who have had the wisdom to choose politics as their career, who have invested time and effort to cut a way in this treacherous field, have no idea how the world works and how the world economy works, and who may donate money to fund a political candidature and for what reasons?
                              
                              Thank God you gave me that impression!

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               PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I don't see Trump talking about those things.  Is he, and I just missed it buried under all the other intelligent, well-researched, nuanced, and cost-effective policy positions coming out of his pretty mouth?

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                  rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  No one but Bernie would be up for it.

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         rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         +1

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      colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Bravo!  I love clear thinkers...you got my vote, wilderness.  What office will you run for? 
      
      What is happening is a grass-roots movement getting behind Trump.  Its an uprising of people who are sick and tried of the corrupt career politicians that say one thing and do another. People are putting their foot down and saying, "Enough is enough!"   People's voices are being heard through Trump because he listens to us and sees what needs to be done. 
      
      I was skeptical of Trump ... BUT, I realized that he is the real deal. I actually get goosebumps now when I think of what he is exposing and busting wide-open.  No one has had to courage to take on the money-changers in government...at least not lived long enough to tell about it.   
      
      Trump is a man, and we need more men like him stepping up and being men in charge.  Real men are our greatest asset, always have been, always will.  Men of wisdom, courage and strength we can count on who have our backs.  Sadly, they usually get shot.  So, I pray for Donald Trumps protection everyday now.  ---  "In God We Trust!"

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         wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Well, I don't know - I'm not ready yet to proclaim that Trump will act in the best interests of the country.  But I DO know that the others won't, and that is sufficient to swing my vote (at this moment; future events could change that).

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            colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Anytime you want to throw your hat into the political ring, let us know.  We need people in politics who have common sense.

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               wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Hah!  I had my experience with politics at the most basic level (homeowners association).  And I don't wish to repeat it.

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                  Rodeonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I would definitely love to see you doing some public-speaking.

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   colorfuloneposted 8 years ago

   Hillary is lying and cheating to become president and taking large donations from puppet masters, special interest groups and lobbies...!   She is bought and paid for.   A Status Quo Politican! 
   
   Donald isn't bought...he is for the people who are fed-up with the status quo, and that is why the phenomenon is happening.  You cannot buy that kind of support. 
   
   
   
   Benghazi ... 
   Hillary is under an FBI criminal investigation! 
   Hillary's supporters are what is known as the "sheepel".
   What difference does it make!

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      PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Not a big fan of Hillary, but at least she can occupy a roomful of world leaders and diplomats and not embarrass us with talk about the size of her package.

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         colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I'm a 36C.  Hillary looks like she is a 46DD.  Whoa! 

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            PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Wow, you've really devolved.  Trump has that effect on a person, huh?
            
            Oh, wait, you LIKE tough guys with large packages.  It's what you look for in a president, apparently.  Who knew?

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               colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               PrettyPanther - "Wow, you've really devolved.  Trump has that effect on a person, huh?
               
               Oh, wait, you LIKE tough guys with large packages.  It's what you look for in a president, apparently.  Who knew?"
               
               Personal Attack!      pitiful ... very low!     devolved?
               No offence taken, but reported you for breaking the HubPages Forum Rules.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  No, accurate assessment.  Did Trump not boast about what's in his pants last night?  On national television?  For the whole world to see?  While trying to convince us he's presidential material?  Isn't he your guy?  I rest my case.
                  
                  I crack up whenever a Trump supporter gets offended in the forums. You support the biggest bully in the ring, yet get your feefees hurt over criticism of The Trumpeter.

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                     Ken Burgessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I agree that was classless of Trump, but that is also what he has been about during this whole campaign... so nothing really new.
                     I did take offense with how Foxnews tried hard to assassinate him with their video clips and charts... to single him out last night like that just showed how deeply the media as well as the GOP are trying to manipulate the voters as well as destroy Trump.
                     It would be just as easy to find clips of Rubio and Cruz and do that to them, and easiest of all to do that to Clinton... but they don't/didn't.
                     I really have a tough time not supporting Trump... if they weren't so hell bent on destroying him, I could maybe consider someone else... but anyone the corrupt Washington cronies is trying that hard to keep out, might very well end up being a good thing... despite his bombastic attitude.

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                        PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        This is a serious question.  Are you at all worried about how he will behave in serious talks with world leaders, for example?

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                        Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Do you think that lacking class and avoiding vulgarity is just more 'politically correct'?
                        
                        He will get the nomination, because there is no one even close, but can he sell himself to the general electorates with his negatives?

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                           colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           I am done with that topic, I expressed my honest views, Cred. 
                           
                           Good news...it might not be over for Bernie Sanders' run.  The party could turn to him yet.    I / we can hope!  I question how much faith we can put in FBI Director James Comey.  IDK
                           http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/artic … il-inquiry
                           
                           I would rather see a Trump vs Sanders race to the end.

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                              Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              I would, too

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                                 colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                 The Republican debts would be interesting if the candidates would break down Clinton's and Sanders' policies bit by bit, so that the nominee would know how to defeat either one.  That's maybe too progressive to hope for.

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                        colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Ken, I agree with you again.  I didn't post my view in the forum about the debt before.  BUT, was accused by PrettyPanther who (also) seems to think she knows what I like, feel and want... without my input. She likes to talk about Trump supporters having "lizard brains"?   
                        
                        However, the presidential candidates are not the only ones in need of focusing to end / stop the mud-slinging. (This forum has its undignified too.)  The media / interviewers have their role play too. The moderators, the debtors, the parties, need to focus on the important issues...
                        
                        Trump is being targeted by other candidates, the GOP and the RNC, the media, and he is under siege. They were out to antagonize him in the debt, esp. Rubio.  They achieved that.    Trump can brawl! 
                        
                        Its such a waste of time in these debates and its the American people who are getting cheated. The presidential debates need to be taken up a few notches.  As does conversation in these forums.  Let's move forward. 
                        
                        Those are my real views!

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                           PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           Just so you know, everyone has a lizard brain.  It is a common term for the limbic system.  My position is that Trump supporters, the ones who truly like him, are using their lizard brains to select a candidate, because he plays to their fears and fight/flight response.  That is vastly different than calling Trump supporters "lizard brains."  I explained this to GA, and he got it.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  No offence (sic) taken?  Then why did you report me?  I'm merely trying to illuminate how Trump appears to the world at large, and how Trump supporters appear to those who are appalled at his childish antics.
                  
                  You want to discuss a candidate's bra size now.  Okay, you're not running for President of the United States.  Trump would have no problem talking about a professional woman's bra size, and I'm guessing you would be a-okay with that.

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                  Credence2posted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Cmon, Colorfulone, this an inaccurate assessment, hopefully you don't present this 'recourse' before all your opponents?
                  
                  That is one idea that you can toss into the Trumpster.
                  
                  It is not like Trump does not have a good idea of two, he doesn't explain how he is going to get from here to there. I will give him credit for making much of the middle east pay for the cost of the American defense establishment in the region. The taxing everybody at a lower rate, less money coming into the coffers, he talks about making it up in tarrifs imposed on other countries. What about retaliation from those countries in response to our tarrifs? He makes it sound like it is simply about a cost free source of income, and it is hardly that in the face of international politics and global economies. Are we or Trump prepared for a trade war?
                  
                  We never get to his 'policies' because his vulgarity is constantly in the headlines

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               Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               LOL. I wouldn't have known how to respond to someone volunteering their bra size and commenting 'whoa' to what she thinks Hillary's is. Strange world we occupy now that bra size would be brought up in a political discussion. I suppose we have Trump to thank for this.

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                  PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  I know, right?  What do people expect when they validate such a buffoon?

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                     Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't know. I didn't so much see it as validation as losing all credibility. But, then, Trump also lost all that to me the first time he opened his mouth to announce his candidacy. So, maybe it is some type of validation.

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                        PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        What I mean by validation is people helping Trump ascend to the top of the GOP field.  People are voting for this guy.  That is validation of his shenanigans as well as his, ahem, policy positions.  Now, some people who don't really like him, such as you, are considering voting for him if it's Trump versus Clinton.  You will also be validating his boorish behavior, his buffoonery, his bullying, his misogynistic insults, and his inability to articulate his own, ahem, policy positions.  I hope you dig deeply and think long and hard before you cast that vote.

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                           Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                           I know, I know. It does stick in my gut pretty hard. It's a long way to the election. Thankfully.
                           
                           But, I'm a person who is always trying to find the upside of a bad situation. If Trump should miraculously win it (and he could, because I think it's a miracle he has remained in it so long) it could be a good thing for the Republican party. His whole campaign has been a lesson in how far out of step they are with the American people. The party had become virtually dead in my eyes and I couldn't imagine anyone who could be embraced by the party itself being elected president. They are simply too extreme on many issues. I have absolutely no respect for the rank and file of the Trump rabble. Ones like those who spam these forums with outright lies and comments that don't even warrant the courtesy of calling them half truths. But, there are so many more people voting for him than these fringe radicals. And I have to accept that they have valid reasons. I'm searching for them.
                           
                           I used to think there was some prejudice involved in the hatred of Obama (and I do think that does play a part in why people are willing to be so very disrespectful when commenting on their displeasure)  But, I've gotten so I don't even like the man myself. He has overstepped the boundaries of his office and I think we need a swing to the right in order to correct some of his missteps.
                           
                           And, actually, it could be worse than Trump. We could be discussing a Cruz presidency. In that instance I might just be willing to vote for Hillary. I don't want to swing that far right.

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                              wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              "If Trump should miraculously win it (and he could, because I think it's a miracle he has remained in it so long) it could be a good thing for the Republican party."
                              
                              I think you're right that he could become President.  I also think it would be a good thing for the Republican party.  Plus the Democratic party, Independent politicians and all the rest, for Trump voters are making a very loud statement about politics in this country in general.  It is not limited to only the GOP but to what our politicians have become regardless of party affiliation.  Just the fact that he's mobilizing voters in numbers we haven't seen for years points to that, and it doesn't end there.  He's making a statement that resonates with voters everywhere, and it's only his "buffoonery" that has kept him from an absolute sweep in not only the primaries but in the actual election as well.
                              
                              Politicians everywhere are going to ignore this at their peril, I think!

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                                 Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                 I think you are right.

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                                 PrettyPantherposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't know, wilderness.  You're making Trump voters sound almost noble, and I'm just not seeing it.  The Trump supporters I have spoken with in real life are all about how "tough" Trump is going to be (on immigrants, on Syrian refugees, on China, on whatever).  When I press them for details, they don't have any, just that he's going to be tough.  Those are the ones who have liked him pretty much from the beginning.
                                 
                                 Now, Trump is gaining support from others who don't like Clinton, and I see them rationalizing away Trump's buffoonery and crazy behavior to make their support seem reasonable.  I just don't buy it.

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                                    Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                    You'll see similar behavior from Sanders supporters, by the by. Given two choices, one must be made; even when both appear untenable.

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                                    wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                    Noble?  No, just pissed off.  The invasion of illegal aliens is a good example; the man in the street that lost his job to an illegal quite understands what that invasion means.   So does the one waiting in line for an EBT card, only to find that every person in front of him needs an interpreter.  All while Washington does nothing but tell the illegal job thieves they can stay forever because their business cronies like cheap labor. 
                                    
                                    Yeah - the average citizen is sick to death of "business as usual" on Capital Hill.  Trump may be lying, he may grossly exaggerate what he can accomplish, but at least he claims he'll do something to benefit the country.  No one else does.

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                                       colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                       Isn't Trump enough of an 'egomaniac' that he would truly push-hard to make good his promises to get the recognition he desires and that he knows he so deserves?  I cannot see him not delivering on purpose. That would be deliberate self-deflation by public scorn.

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                                          wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                          I actually doubt that he is simply lying.  But I also think that he's ego is plenty big enough to convince himself that he can accomplish far, far more than he actually can...in politics.  In a field he's experienced at probably not, but in politics it becomes a different story.  Plus, of course, everyone tends to give the President more credit, and more blame, than is realistic.  He's not running for King, after all.

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                                             colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                             Let's hope he doesn't think he is a king.There are policies that aren't going to be done away with that I would like to see gone, but Trump won't be able to change them. 
                                             
                                             If, he can push through most or even half of his policies he'll be doing good.  National security and immigration policies, create jobs and good healthcare...
                                             
                                             I look forward to him undoing Obama's unlawful executive over-reach laws.  He is not a king!

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                                                wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                                                Personally, I predict that he'll be unable to put through hardly any of his policies.  Even the immigration part - that takes money and congress won't give it to him to deport their voters with.
                                                
                                                But maybe he can lay the groundwork for future progress.  God knows we need to "progress" towards something other than socialism!

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                              colorfuloneposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                              I enjoyed reading your comment, it has a lot of substance.  There is something about stepping into the phenomena, its not like something I have experienced with a candidate before.  I had to test the water first and get my toes wet before I waded in.  Once I did that I took a dive. 
                              
                              Pat Robertson met with all of the Republican candidates and he came right out afterwards saying Cruz is a phony.  I was not surprised, but six months ago I would have been. He would have to be held to the fire just like anyone else (but how does one do that with Hillary?).

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   ahorsebackposted 8 years ago

   Like it or not the" illegal immigration "  of every phase of foreign  influence in America ......Is A Huge problem , and I'm not just talking about people  jumping the rusted , broken  fence  in Texas or   Arizona  !   Company's , governments ,  individuals   , wall street ,, ..........everyone is chewing on the ass of America's   past success's.   , and for what .......For every dollar they can  steal.         How do you like it that your children  have  to pay back college loans and they could get it for free ?     Or that your  last pregnancy that cost you  twenty five thousand dollars ?
   
   Trump is the answer to  at least a temporary reprieve of our collective hatred of congressional , senatorial  , presidential  , lack of respect to the real American ........The tax payer!

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      rhamsonposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      To me if not Bernie it is Trump who I will vote for. I am beside myself with pleasure as I watch the greedy establishment political bastards squirm about with the notion he may upset their applecart. He is the hand grenade in the room. His mouth cannot be contained and if, I say if he is elected, I can't wait to hear him busting out the staid lunacy from both sides of the isle as they get in the eventual free for all.

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