Gifted vs. Average

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   gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago

   
   What are THE TEN things that gifted children DO that average children DON'T or CAN'T? How are gifted children more mature than average children of corresponding ages?  Why gifted children will reach higher success levels as adults than average children will ever reach?
   

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      The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      GMW, there are no gifted children as we will all in some incarnation manifest as what you are calling gifted. Once we understand the law of karma requires us to incarnate as every form of life this earth is made of - so we will learn to exceed the world's and everything hereon's ability - require each life-force to be every possible attribute of every life-type on earth we will understand we are only following a predestined series of manifestations.
      
      Some of the experiences I stumbled across that most children do that other children nor adults do includes hearing people's thoughts, seeing things most people can't, shape change, hear and understand plants and much more. I don't know if that is what you are looking for but those are some things I've seen as a born again adolescent among both children and young adults.

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      peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Most people who are "gifted" are only gifted in a special field. I didn't quite understand the TEN things bit.
      I just went to a concert of Marcus Miller this weekend, an amazing musician. He played with Miles Davis when he was only 22. He is definitely "gifted" and is one of the best bass players alive. But I'm sure I can do TEN things better then he can do.
      And what is success? There are many people who we've never heard of who live happy and fulfilling lives.
      Are gifted children more mature? could be. Greta Thunberg is the most famous child at the moment and very mature. Is she gifted? She works hard, has a goal and knows what she wants.

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         gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you for your eloquent response.

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         The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Peterstreep, I'm one of those living a happy and fulfilling life and the only recognition is for being the NatureBoy living as close to the environment as allowed.

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            peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            THat's great TheNatureBoy. happiness and success are not the same thing. I think the former is the most important though.

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               The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Peter, happiness is included in success when it isn't materialistic. Happiness is a judgment by someone concerning something specific, success is when one has found the the thin line between love and hate; the middle path taught by the Buddha and the Christ's straight way with the narrow gate where one recognizes the the opposites but use them according to their intended purposed.

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      Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      There are multiple intelligeneces - some driven by biological factors, others derived from environment. We have to be careful how we use the word "gifted." Many gifted children wind up in special classes because they can not interact with other children. I once had a child I worked with who had Asberger's Syndrome, and he made extraordinary grades, but could not interact with other students. To be successful, there must be a balance of these inteligences. Some of them include: emotional, academic, cultural, social, and physical. This is why those who favor the incremental approach to IQ (Meaning intelligence is an expansive quality ), believe everyone has a special skill and ability. This is a philosophy I support, and the evidence tends to favor it. How else can we explain idiots becoming heads of state? Or that genius we knew from school who is washing dishes in a restaurant.

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         gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         I take issue w/the last two statements.  People who are at the top are highly intelligent, even highly educated.  Idiots don't reach the top.   Furthermore, geniuses seldom perform menial work.  Don't get it twisted.  It is good to say things to assuage the ego but what you have stated ISN'T reality.

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            The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            The prefix intel in intelligent means it was given to you from outside of you therefore it how those man who prove idled the knowledge tgo you rewarded you and still the pyramid effect of money.

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            Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps, you have it twisted and you are protecting your ego. I'm in the classroom, I've seen it. Your reality is influenced by 19th-century thinking and not the current evidence.

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               gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               If you have observed & read statistics, people who are high intelligent are most likely to be the highest educated & have the better jobs.  They are highly successful.   People who have average & below average intelligent have THE HARDEST, MOST DIFFICULT lives.  They are THE LEAST educated as well as unsuccessful.   Yes, A students will be the most successful educationally & socioeconomically while C students will be the least educated as well as unsuccessful at best unless they have wealthy parents like George W. Bush.   He is the EXCEPTION.   C students won't be successful socioeconomically nor educationally.

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                  Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  You ignore factors such as environment - some kings were not bright; Adolf Hitler failed as an artist and even according to some of my German friends, spoke lousy German, etc. Intelligence is not "fixed.) That's not current thinking and its inconsistent with evidence which I have read. There is even a "hustling" intelligence. Elon Musk comes to mind. He's brilliant, but he has some people challenges. In any case, if you read correctly, you would know the term IQ is derived from western cultural norms and does not measure anything except what a person knows at that moment. It can't tell what a person may do later in life from his/her IQ.

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            peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            If you have money you reach the top... This has nothing to do with IQ. Idiots do reach the top.  You simply have to look at President Trump.

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   Castlepalomaposted 4 years ago

   It seems the most common thing that everyone has,  is a natural talent.  The major difference is, the work ethic and love you bring to that natural talent or so called gift.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Not everyone has talent.   There are people w/talent while there are others who don't have any talent whatsoever.   Gifted people are those who possess genius or near genius level IQs at the 140 IQ level & beyond.  Orson Welles was an example of talent.  He was a prodigious actor & director.  There are people who don't have talent.  It is very hard to face this.  Not everyone has talent.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Natural-Born Talent. ... As it turns out, we are born with very few, if any, natural talents and skills. Excellence is borne not of any particular innate ability, but of practice. In other words, you can be good at whatever you want.

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            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Not necessarily.  Intelligence is a strong factor in nurturing talent & skills.  Practice means nothing at all if there isn't proficient intelligence.  A person can desire to be a doctor but if his/her IQ is in the low to mid-100s, h/she WILL NEVER be a doctor no matter how hard h/she studies.  Intelligence must be present.  The higher the intelligence, the more proficient & successful a person will be.  Natural talent is an outgrowth of intelligence.

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               Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I will demonstrate how desire, required talent and an attitude to practice like a doctor from experience. I'll show how it out performs natural talent or so called outgrowth of intelligence.
               
               In my fine art technical school, there were four other artist more talented, skilled and all round better artist than me. I check back with them years later and none of them went on as a career in the arts.
               
               Wail I continued to win 185 international awards, had a 44 year full-time career and loved what I did for most waking hours of my life. If you don't love your work, you can not master life and feel the integrity of a successful life. Maybe call it luck, I call it 90,000 hours of good practice.
               
               What good is a oncologist doctor if their chemo rate of success for cancer is only 2% over 5 years. I know how to make cannabis oil from Rick Simpson evidence rate of 70% success rate of over 5 years.
               Who is more intelligent?
               
               I can't call a doctor stupid or dishonest with all their academic degrees. Just ignorant of the Government system and Corperationism greed, these guy really don't care if you live or die.

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            2. 76

               Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Well, one's potentials are based on will-power and karma.
               
               (*Note A "gifted" person can also be person with special needs. Therefore, I would not use the term "gifted." I would refer to a person with a high IQ as a person with above-average intelligence.)
               
               A person with above-average intelligence is usually the product of parents who test above average. These people are considered genetically lucky, but I do not believe their intelligence is the result of luck. I believe we choose our parents before reincarnating. If we have developed high intelligence in past lifetimes, we gravitate toward parents with similar capabilities. Once born, we absorb the ways of our parents and bring our own superior intelligence to the table.
               
               Free-will, (self-guided will,) is the driving force. I have found that people with superior intelligence/awareness have a stronger than average inclination to follow their own wills and have an abundance of will-power.
               
               The ability to follow/guide one's own will is a matter personal growth and development. What helps us develop this ability? The desire to achieve personal goals and fulfill worthwhile ambitions. This desire ultimately results from intrinsic motivation ... being interested and fascinated with what one finds in one's world.
               
               A person who never develops talents is one who never found interests or joy of life.
               
               Truly Intelligent people are never bored.
               
               T W I S I

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                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  The ability to follow/guide one's own will is a matter personal growth and development. What helps us grow and develop?? the ability to concentrate  and pursue thoughts and projects to their conclusion. In other words, the ability to set and achieve personal goals and fulfill worthwhile ambitions.
                  
                  Well,... get closer to conclusion. I am not ready for heaven, yet not bad.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Special needs people aren't gifted.  They have IQs in the lowest percentiles which confirms why they are classified as special needs.  Gifted people or rather geniuses are inventive & creative.  They have the ability to see &/or discern what average people can't, don't, or won't.  They also don't blindly follow societal norms or the norms of their families & cultures.   They are strong individualists.   They do get bored w/the mundane & stupidity.  They don't tolerate stupidity.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Clinically, you are not correct.  The term "gifted" is used for a category of people with special needs. Their gifts are what makes them learning-disabled in some ways. (I studied this subject in college.)
                     
                     For instance, Einstein could barely cook an egg. Was he a genius? Was he gifted? Was he above average in intelligence? Someone of above average intelligence can cook an egg.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     Look at Stephan Hawking, with one eye lid working. He took the big bang theory to greater heights.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't consider Dr. Hawking to be special needs- FAR from it.  Dr. Hawking was a genius in spite of being physically challenged.

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                     Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     You use "special needs" too loosely here. There are visually impaired and people who are totally deaf who are smarter than anyone of us on HP. In fact, a person with vision loss became a governor and another became a doctor. When we refer to individuals who have limited IQ for whatever reason, we use the term "intellectually disabled."

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                        The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Makes plenty sense to me, Tim!!

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                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        I am well aware of this.  I was responding to another poster, thank you.

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                           Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Appropriate opinion piece:
                           
                           https://www.meriahnichols.com/differenc … isability/
                           
                           Maybe we didn't mean to unravel so much.

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                           Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           That's o.k., I was responding to you.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   if you are talking about geniuses, that is another matter entirely.

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      Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Genuses have trouble fitting in, some believe Albert may have had A.S. That makes him "special needs."

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   Also, I have found that people with above average intelligence are patient "w/the mundane"  and never label things or people as stupid. When others are slower to understand concepts or ideas, these people happily offer explanations. They are interested in people and never feel disdain or boredom toward anyone.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   "Generally, gifted or advanced students learn more quickly, deeply, and broadly than their peers. They may learn to read early and progress at the same level as normal children who are significantly older. Gifted students also tend to demonstrate high reasoning ability, creativity, curiosity, a large vocabulary, and an excellent memory. They can often master concepts with few repetitions.
   
   They may also be perfectionistic, and frequently question authority.
   
   Some have trouble relating to or communicating with their peers because of disparities in vocabulary size (especially in the early years), personality, interests, and motivation. As children, they may prefer the company of older children or adults.
   
   Giftedness is frequently not evenly distributed throughout all intellectual spheres. One gifted student may excel in solving logic problems yet be a poor speller. Another may be able to read and write at a far above-average level yet have trouble with mathematics.
   
   It is possible that there are different types of giftedness with their own unique features, just as there are different types of developmental delay.
   
   Giftedness may become noticeable in individuals at different points of development. While early development (i.e. speaking or reading at a very young age) usually comes with giftedness, it is not a determinant of giftedness."
   
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_giftedness

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      Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, and you can find "gifted" adults in science, at home, and yes, in prisons.

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6. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   Resubmitting gmwilliam's question:
   
   "Countless psychological studies have authenticated that there is a close correlation between levels of IQ, educational, & success attainment.
   
   It goes to reason that the higher a person's intelligence quotient, the more likely h/she will attain a high level of success. 
   
   The average IQ score is 100 According to Wechsler's classification of IQ:
   91-110 is average,
   111-119 is in the bright normal range,
   120-127 is superior intelligence,
   128-over is considered superior intelligence. 
   
   Other psychologists such as Terman indicated that average IQ range from 84-113,
   113-132 is considered to be above average,
   132-148 is superior intelligence,
   148-164 is very superior intelligence, &
   164-over is genius level.
   
   How does IQ influence educational/success levels?
   
   (not "giftedness")

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7. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   gmwilliam's 3 queries:
   
   Q.1. "What are THE TEN things that children with above-average intelligence HAVE that children with average intelligence DO NOT HAVE?
   
   My answer:
   
   1. They have been inspired and encouraged by the adults in their lives.
   2. They have access to appropriately stimulating environments.
   3. They have freedom and liberty in stimulating environments.
   4. They have not been bombarded by overly ambitious parents.
   5. They have been allowed to find their own interests.
   6. They have been given love, understanding and patience by their parents, caretakers and teachers.
   7. They have not been allowed to run around like wild banshees.
   8. They have been given common sense boundaries and have security in their lives.
   9. They feel joy of life.
   10.They have been kept away from too much screen/technology time.
   
   Q.2. "How are they different than average children of corresponding ages?"
   
   A. They are more in touch with intrinsic motivation and are interested in the world around them. They can concentrate better. They can think better to the point of knowing more and they are more in touch with their own will power.
   
   Q.3. "Why will children with higher intelligence reach higher success levels as adults than average children?"
   
   A. Because they are very capable, mentally, physically and emotionally.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      +100000000000000000000000000

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         

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            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            Kathryn, many gifted/genius/highly intelligent children have highly educated or intellectual parents who understand the importance of intellectual & cultural activities outside of school.  Their homes are filled w/books & other intellectual paraphernalia.  They, on average also come mostly from small(1-2 children) or medium sized families(3-4 children).  They also have individualized time w/their parents.  They engage in conversations/discussions w/their parents.
            
            Parents who aren't highly educated nor intellectual find gifted/genius/highly intellectual children to be problematic.  These are the parents who want such children "to be normal like other children".  They avidly discourage cultural & intellectual pursuits but rough & tumble pursuits "like other children".  Such parents frown on intellectual & cultural activities.  Also parents who have large to very large families discourage intellectual/cultural pursuits.  They want their children to conform & don't appreciate their children's individuality.  They feel that if one or two children are geniuses or intellectually gifted, what about the other children. 
            
            Children who are geniuses/gifted/highly intelligent suffer in hommes where there are less educated parents.  Such parents don't have the comprehension to realize the importance of cultural & intellectual activities in the home.  They usually discourage & deride cultural & intellectual activities as such are beyond the parents' purview.  They rather their children to be street smart than to be intellectual.  Less educated parents could care less about the intellectual development of their children, particularly if their children are geniuses/gifted/highly intellectual.  They don't have the intellectual wherewithal to nurture such children's gifts.
            
            Parents of large to very large families oftentimes don't have the resources to nurture their children intellectually, especially if their children are geniuses or otherwise intellectually gifted.  They also don't have the monetary resources for books, other intellectual paraphernalia, & other cultural activities.  They don't engage their children.  Their children are left to their own devices, raising themselves & each other.  Children in large & very large families tend to be intellectually backwards because they don't have parental guidance, growing up in a child-filled environment where they relate to other siblings(children themselves) instead of their parents, & lack of cultural & intellectual stimulation.  Children who are geniuses/gifted SUFFER in large & very large families.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               Thank you!
               
               However, I have never met this type of parent:
               
               "Such parents frown on intellectual & cultural activities. Also parents who have large to very large families discourage intellectual/cultural pursuits. They want their children to conform & don't appreciate their children's individuality."
               
               I do feel sorry for children brought up with parents like these.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  Quite welcome indeed.

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8. 76

   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   I actually wonder the place of public schools. It may be the worst place parents can send their children to become educated in this day and age. What do you think? We need a new type of school. One which allows greater freedom, creativity and innovation. I would design a school that is research based. I would blend subjects, such as Art and Science, History and Science, Art and English, English and Science. There is more, but a better educational blueprint for the future is needed.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      There should be SEPARATE schools for the intellectually gifted.  Gifted children are stultified in the public school system which caters to average students.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         There used to be gifted programs in the public schools. I don't know what happened to them. (Generally, as I recall, these students developed attitudes that they were superior to the others.) Now, there are advanced placement (AP) classrooms. These, however, (I observed,) are detrimental to C average kinds. D to C students worked harder when they were in the company of A and B achieving students. The administrators hoped the A and B students would be able to excel without the underachievers holding them back. Perhaps, the above average students do excel now. I don't know.
         
         What I do know is that school has become very stressful. I believe it should be more enjoyable. All the kids/students lumped together worked out fine for me in the 70's. I would have been miserable in a CLASS system.

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            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            I wouldn't.  I would have THRIVED IMMENSELY in a class system.  I was one of the smart/gifted students.  However, there were average students in the class.  Average students hold the smarter students back.  Children should be thoroughly tested before they enter elementary school & separated based upon IQ.  The smarter/gifted children would be much better off intellectually if this was done!

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               gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               A students who are the gifted ones, even geniuses, should have separate classes from the other students.  It is beyond ridiculous to integrate classrooms.  A students should have their class while C students who are average to slow should have their classes.  D students should be put in special education classes- they are dullards intellectually.

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                  The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  It was discovered, GMW, during the early 1950 when I began school the smarter students helped the learning of the slower students. What has happened since those days is by dividing similar aged children they don't get to hear the things of the upper levels and that don't make them desire to improve. That is very much like most people in the ghetto, because they only have the ghetto that is all they want and by my reading your information you are the exception.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     I was not born in the ghetto, I came from a middle class environment, thank you.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         Funny my daughter kept asking me, what art university or art animation college should she go to?. I said, forget art schools, they mostly harm the raw original fine artist within you. I susjested there are veteran real animation art teacher at Sheraton college. Warning, they turn you into factory artist for Disney land. Better to learn from world-class active veteran artist like me.
         
         She found out I was right and this year she won two of the highest animation award in Canada. She travels more different places than I have. We are teaming up in the cannabis, microgreens and fine art business in the near future.

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   Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

   Some who are overly obedient as children never got over having to work so hard to live up to the expectations of their parents and/or teachers.
   
   Kids who are not so brainy, or who are C average students, are fine the way they are, because they, most likely, are happy people. The world needs happy people who are capable of living life with simplicity and joy. Not everyone clammers after money and prestige. No everyone wants to feel they are one of the elite. Not everyone feels bored with the mundane. Not everyone considers others to be stupid and inferior to them. Not everyone sells out their soul for money. Whoever wants to, fine, go ahead, but don't preach it.

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      gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

      C students will be the impoverished people of the future.  C students will never be middle class.  They will be lucky if they are lower classM.  They will be more likely to be unemployed, homeless or worse.  C students aren't happy people- they are FAILURES in life.  C students will always be AT THE BOTTOM socioeconomically.  If one wants success, be an A student!
      
      My late father considered C students to be intellectually retarded.   He had a very low opinion of anyone who was a C student.  He maintained that C students will never be anything in life.  He felt that A students were the only intelligent ones on earth.   My high school teachers thought C students to be subpar.   C students aren't considered to be worthy students, just a waste of classroom space.  C students can be trained to do menial or routine jobs. They aren't academically suited.

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         Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

         One good thing about high academic, it dose show their good work ethic, yet not necessarily shows they turn out to be a balance and happy human beings. A- C students may not enjoy the academics indoctrinationed programing. A C Student may find his work ethic or love and happiness in combined healthy realationships, spiritual and physical fitness. He maybe good with a numberious of other things. I met fat millionaires with grade 5 education with a cigar in their mouth that hire high academic nerds. They may not be my picture of happiness neither.
         
         I may lean a little more toward kathryn vison of C students of possibilities.  A person can require to be lucky/happy in life, by his/her own desires, attitude and focus and also live a successful life.  An C students may not be at the bottom or lost in the crowd.  I met too many unhappy high IQ or high academic also.

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            gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

            C students usually end up at the bottom.  They aren't intellectually suited for college.  If they attend college, it is usually community college.  The average college is beyond the intellectual capacity of C students.  C students oftentimes end up in repetitive jobs i.e. jobs that don't require use of the intellect.  C students make good low level clerks, cashiers, or in any job that is routine. 
            
            C students remain at the bottom socioeconomically because they don't possess the innate intelligence to advance careerwise.  On the other hand, for A students, the sky is the limit for their success.   Highly intelligent people are THE MOST educationally & socioeconomically successful.  Yes, A students are SUPERIOR  & BETTER than C students.

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               Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               I was an average B students, a C in English although better in Spanish. An A in biology. I met hundreds of politicans and lawyers in my work and travels. How come so many of them get so jealous of me building sandcastle for a living and I get the prettiest girls too?

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  You are extremely lucky to make an excellent living as a creative.   B students are good students believe it or not.  B is above average.  I was an A student in elementary while a B student in high school & college.   C students aren't good students- one would consider them to be quite mediocre.   C students are a waste of classroom space.  Why bother attending school if one is only a C standard-what a WASTE!

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                     Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     It must be, most people are C students of life.
                     
                     I found out,  I have been the top 7% wealthest for most of my life. Where 70% of people in the world only own 3% of the world's wealth. Kind of a sad and suffering way to live for most.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Yeah, life SUCKS for most people.  That is why they turn to religion- it is an OPIATE for poor people.  Most people lead GRAY lives if you ask me.  Most people have jobs they hate.  Sad life isn't it.  Hell could describe the average person's life.

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                           Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           The GDP of countries generally correlates negatively with their religiosity dominant. Yet the wealthier a population is the more secular countries like Japan, northern European and happier for it. 
                           
                           I prefer the fictional story of superman coming from another Planet flying around and being our superhero.
                           Rather than Jesus being the our supernatural hero from outer space. Who flys down to hell and convince enternal totured people he is suffering more than they are.

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               The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

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                  The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  I was mainly an A student in my studies, earned a few B's, but my citizenship often fell to D because I learn best when I am allowed to learn my way and not under man's strict discipline. The most difficult six weeks I ever faced was the one in the ninth grade when I promised my mothers I would become an honor student, getting an A in citizenship was very difficult.
                  
                  Now that I'm free from man's discipline and under spirit's, life is all it was set out to be, an enjoyable learning experience, before man forced their discipline upon us to control what we become. 43 years it will be this coming August 6, the day of my new birth, and I have no regrets.

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

               There is something archaic with this outlook. If one is working exclusively for an end goal, one misses the process. The process is everything!

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                  Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  It depends on if the process has been ridged. That can ruin you itself.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  As a matter of fact, my mother told me C's were fine. She allowed me and my (three!) brothers a lot of freedom and provided many educational materials/experiences in our home. Who cares about grades when one loves to learn and does learn according to one's own interest and motivation. She encouraged me to be self-reliant and do my own work. Looking back on it, she never stressed good grades, even though she had gone to North Western University and had earned a teaching credential. What is a grade compared to ACTUAL learning. Curiosity is the bottom line.
                  
                  CURIOSITY!!!!
                  
                  One of my brothers did care about good grades and worked hard to get them, but got burned out with school in the final analysis. He did not finish college, became a bar tender, and then started his own business which became very successful. Now, he owns two beautiful houses next door to each other ... across the street from a golf course. (Yes, he loved the board game, Monopoly)!
                  He is the most successful of all of us, even though the rest of us earned college degrees.  One brother became an electrical engineer (owns two houses, one near the ocean), one became a teacher, (owns one house near the ocean.) All of us pursued our interests without any thought of becoming successful or rich. It just happened down the line from working hard in our chosen fields, being responsible and having discipline.

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                     gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     If I had gotten Cs,  I wouldn't hear the end of it.  I would have been called stupid or worse by my parents, particularly my fathers.  He wanted As, maybe Bs but NOTHING LOWER.   My mother was the same way.  They maintained that only dummies make Cs.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        My parents stressed good grades & following the rules.  They never stressed curiosity at all.  They believe in approaching things legalistically.   They were A students all through school. I was an A student in elementary while a B in high school & college much to the disappointment of my parents.

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                           The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I got C's in most of my classes after 9th grade because I was only going to school because my mom said to me if you live in my house you are going to finish school and and I didn't know how else to live.
                           
                           I went to my dad's in '60 and earned a college scholarship in football but returned to my mother's in '61 where I got a diploma but didn't march. The reason, a teacher knew my mother and said she would hold me back to see If she could get me to raise up my grades, I later found out, so she held med back for one year and the last 6 weeks with my dad I was kicked out of school which caused me to complete my requirements in the middle of the year. So I walked into the principle's office at the beginning of the semester I would have marched to receive and said I'm not marching with my brother who is two years behind me and walked out.
                           
                           When I must do something, I'll do it my way and not someone else's has always been my way.

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                     The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     My Mother was a schoolteacher until 1953s move to Texas and she couldn't get licensed, my dad left her when I was 4 and did nothing for us. Social wise were impoverished but having been a farmers child I was only a nature loving child who didn't see peopled in any class raised by a schoolteacher mom.
                     
                     In English I did the sentence diagramming in the 7th grade for my 12th grade sister so learning came easy when I did it for myself in my way and not for a grade. The very concept of grades in school and class in the world are only for creating a desire in man-em-mass to have a desire for causing them to spend money to enrich the already rich.
                     
                     After moving to Texas I did all kinds of work and gave the most to maintain the family's needs, it never mattered to me since as a child I learned to eat raw and from where it grew, wore shoes and shirts only when required and never cared about having things, so maybe I was gifted but acted average.

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                  gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                  The process means nothing- it is always THE END GOAL.  That is what I have been taught.   I was taught that A students are smart while B students are weh above average & C students are the dummies, if not dullards.  I was also taught that C students end up with nothing or very little.  They are the ones at the bottom socioeconomically & educationally.  C students don't fare well in life- in fact, they are NOBODIES!

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                     AliciaCposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                     According to what you've said in this thread, you believe or have been taught that students with a C (or D) grade are dullards, dummies, a waste of space in school, failures in life, nobodies, and aren't happy. I am amazed, and not in a good way.
                     
                     Yes, some students do better academically than others or may need additional help to succeed in a particular subject. If we discover the best way for students with problems to understand a concept we may be surprised by their potential, however, as I know from experience. Even if students don't succeed academically, they still have value as individuals. There is more to life than academic success.
                     
                     Other factors to consider are that students who don't do well in school subjects may be gifted in an area other than academics or may do better in academic courses when they take them as an adult. I remember one student who didn't do very well in high school but eventually became a criminologist.
                     
                     In addition, labelling students with a specific letter grade can be a problem in itself. Factors other than academic ability can affect performance in school and on tests. Some of these factors include learning disabilities, social or family problems, inadequate nutrition, and stress.
                     
                     Getting low grades in school or college will likely make it impossible to enter certain careers, but it doesn't mean that a person is doomed to fail in life. I do admit that I've never lived or taught in the United States, but if a C grade always causes failure in life in your country, then your society has serious problems.

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                        gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Academic success is THE KEY to success in life.  Academic success means further educational opportunities which translates into GREAT career opportunities.  Without academic success, one is consigned to low paying, dead end Mcjobs which will eventually be eliminated or automated.  Yes, academic success is MOST important.

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                           The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Academic success is the key to being a brick in the pyramid of money, the only thing, it appears, to be success. I've successfully lived independent of money and filled with joy for being so. I could not have lived it nor be full of joy if I was academically successful, I didn't have joy under someone's thumb during that part of my life.
                           
                           It works for some but not for everybody, nothing does especially as long as we are human and woman or incomplete man as they mean.

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                           peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           You define success in life as having a great career and lots of money. Don't you think success has more to do with having a good life and be happy? Should that not be the goal in your life. To be happy?
                           Although studding is good for understanding the world, academic studding does not always lead to a better life.
                           My sister had a higher education then I had, but I live a far more happier life for instance.
                           I would always promote education. But not because you will get better career opportunities. But because education gives you the possibility to develop yourself.
                           That said, being happy has to do with genetics as well. And to go back to the subject. I'm not sure if a higher IQ gives you more happiness.

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                           Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           Actors, businessmen, sports heroes, they can and should serve as inspiration to us all.
                           
                           Keira Knightley (Dyslexia) Wikicommons. ...
                           Orlando Bloom (Dyslexia) ...
                           Michael Phelps (ADHD) ...
                           Daniel Radcliffe (Dyspraxia) ...
                           Whoopi Goldberg (Dyslexia) ...
                           Steven Spielberg (Dyslexia) ...
                           Justin Timberlake (ADD and OCD) ...
                           Christopher Knight (ADHD)

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                        Tim Truzy info4uposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                        Hi, Alicia, As a matter of fact: one of my C students went on to work for an antivirus software company and currently is the head of research and development. The difference is his school didn't have classes on writing software. However, this student excelled as a musician, creating new music daily. Apparently, he needed a career where he could be creative, and he found it. By the way, he got his programming degree  from an online school whereby he could set his pace of learning.
                        IQ tests do not measure potential nor is creativity in all its forms measurable. This is why the concept of IQ is flawed.

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                           AliciaCposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                           I agree, Tim. The concept of IQ is flawed.

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                              gmwilliamsposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                              Good to hear different viewpoints, continue the discussion please.

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    Kate Crawfordposted 4 years ago

    Education should be about aptitude. It's only human to be drawn toward what we like. Educators don't seem to understand human nature. If curriculum were to be designed around one's innate abilities we would all grow up to have careers we like and enjoy.
    
    If you can't get a child's attention first, they will not become interested enough to like learning, and that's key. Every student's day from Kindergarten to adult should start off with 5 - 10 minutes of quiet breathing meditation to silence thoughts. Something calming and settling so we can focus, some teachers use classical music.
    
    But, if we continue to merely teach children how to take tests you might as well start teaching them how to to use weapons along with the Penal Code; and you better start in grade school.

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years agoin reply to this

       +1

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       Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

       Schooling has been design like sewing machine factories. I had not used 90% of what I learned in regular school and it lacked entertaining methods.
       
       I learned alot more from traveling than anything else.

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          The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          That was why Jesus instructed us to go into all the world and teach others what we have observed, schools are just that, something to make us follow instructions blindly.

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             Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

             One more joy of interactively and the other memory of stuff we may not desire.

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          peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

          absolutely. Just another brick in the wall.
          Many school systems date from 100 years or more back. We live in an entirely different society now, with different needs. Finland is an success story where children are encouraged to play instead of learning.

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             Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

             Loved to have been in those classes.
             
             I Dream&Played for a living Sandcastle&Snow playgrounds for over 4 decades mainly. Hardly worked, called it exercise and serious fun.

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                peterstreepposted 4 years agoin reply to this

                I’m an artist too and teach an weekly art class. I don’t have much money or fame, but as I live off the grid, away from the rat race  I life as a king.
                Success is not what makes me happy, but my friends and the freedom to be in control of my own life. To create, to teach, to live in my own pace, not the one society forces upon you.
                I dream too, and sometimes those dreams become reality, then I start to dream about new things.
                I’m not quite sure if it is a gift, to come back to the subject. I think everybody is creative, but uses it in different ways. An artist needs beside creativity vision. And in the end technique. But vision and ideas come first. Dreams and play as you say. Like a child, gifted or not.

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    gmwilliamsposted 4 years ago

    To me, success is having an advanced graduate degree & making a six to seven figure income.  Anything other than that to me isn't success at all.  Also, it is creating one's own brand & having a career one loves & which one is at the top.

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       Castlepalomaposted 4 years agoin reply to this

       In my Feild I found many international awards, praises from my peers, fans and family had a feeling of success.
       
       Just loved what I did and the money just came. Successful life was more through a balance in order of desire, attitude, focus and least important talent. 
       
       My teachers could not do. A little sad part now, is I am a senior and need to slow down to do more teaching than doing. Hey! lucky me and students, taught many sculptors in the pass how to become professionals. I won't be giving out stars or degrees in form of peaces of paper or indoctrinated them in systematic ways or my way or the hiway.
       
       Money is important, but lease important for happiness. My choices today are more like the three Bears story, each decision comes to, this one feeels... just right.

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    Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago

    Of course, the end goal is important. But not exclusively. The highest good is that which is for the sake of itself AND something else.
    
    The conclusion we can gather from our responses is that there is not one way to live.
    Its up to every individual.
    
    The possibilities in life are endless.
    
    I would stress, though, that its a good idea to prepare in some manner for older age. The body needs to rest after twenty to forty years of diligent work. A nice, comfortable retirement with plenty of opportunity for hobbies and travel is a totally worthwhile goal. But, if you have no enjoyment in life and The Process was never enjoyed or even considered, older age will bring about nothing but boredom and discontent.
    
    I believe in keeping the joy of life alive within our hearts and minds at every stage of life. It takes being connected to our innermost selves where joy, love, compassion, curiosity, intrinsic motivations and self-fulfillment are.
    
    I liked the movie, "Rocketman." Poor Elton John worked hard to break every addiction he developed when trying to keep up with the demands of music making, fame and fortune. Through therapy, he reconnected with his true Self and has been sober for 28 years. He is happy now and fulfilling his inner needs. In the end, you need both: money/success AND soul/Self.
    
    TWISI

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       The0NatureBoyposted 4 years agoin reply to this

       Not necessarily money, also, whatever happens is success because it's all destined, the finial success is when we enter what is termed everlasting life.

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