Lets talk about religion !!!
ciao dudette,
I think religion starts from a desire to control people with fear and a lack of understanding.
Thanx baqueNah. We have you way beat.
Your belief in god comes from the fact that you are empty and unable to accept how unimportant you are.
You are not important and the universe will not miss you when you are gone.
Sorry. That's the way it is.
Chance? No - more a case of trial and error.
BIOMIMETICS is not a science. And even if it was, nature has nothing to do with god.
Trial and error baby.
Nature is not blind. Nature is beautiful and destructive and powerful and delicate.
I understand that you think there is a god because there is a bat.
Only god could create something so useless, therefore there is a god.
And that makes you feel like you are important. More than you are. Eternal even. Never going to die. Here forever. Long lasting. Not short-lived. Not all over in a few short years. Happy even. Believing you are important. Special. And even when you do die, it is not all over. A special place at the side of god. Talking to Jesus for all eternity. Forever. Almost like another chance. Important. Much more important than the bat. And all because of a bat.
A bat has convinced you there is a god. And you are more important than the bat. Special. Live forever.
Really, you should check out the other thread. I much prefer the dolphin one.
And just in case you missed what I was saying:
I love bats. I can't imagine a life without the bats that live outside my home. Diving, ducking, eating the insects. They don't come every night, but I wait there - just in case they do come. And when they do come, I will stay there, watching them for as long as they are there. All night sometimes. Until they are gone. My wife loves me for doing that.You would think it would annoy her, but no, she understands how important bats are to me. Bats are special. Evolving the way they have. I love bats. Love dolphins too. I prefer bats and dolphins to humans actually. They understand. They live as though they only have this life.
Which they do........Maybe you aren't as important as you think. But I am more important then you think. What is a bat without it's watcher? Nothing. So what is God, but a bat? If this is your analogy, then the reasons you find it important or special to watch a bat, others feel for God.
You are only delusioned by your missunderstanding of what people precieve as perfect and beautiful. Maybe it is in an entity that you can't see, but some see because they wait patiently by a cave waiting for the "bat" to come, if you waited half as long for God as you do for a bat, then maybe you would really understand, but your a child who refused to believe in God before you gave God a chance.
I am no more important than a grain of sand on the beach.
If you want to think you are important, that is your choice.
A bat is a bat. With or without the watcher. No matter. But, I understand why you would think that the bat is nothing without the watcher. It makes you feel important. Special.
I watch the bats for my own pleasure. Not the bats.
If you want to think that a bat is god, that is your choice.
What you call god, I call a bat.
I have seen what you call god. The thing that scares you so. It doesn't scare me.I was thinking more like superior. LOL.
I watch people for my pleaure. You my bat baby!
LOL
You are going to have to come up with something better than that to qualify:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/4393
LOL
There are bats, therefore there is a god LOLOLOL
Please try harder.
How do I know there is no god? Because I have seen, and it is not god .
Thnkkxxx baque tou yer alse- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago
0Sorry, I just wanted to tell a really bad joke. Religion is kind of a dead subject. LOLOLOLOLOL.
Religion is not a dead subject...it is the name of the thread.
Everyone is not in the same place in understanding about God and religions, spirituality and beliefs.
I like your analogies Eng.M
Don't take personally the die--atribes of Mark the athiest.
I am thankful for God, as well!
HE/SHE makes my day!!It was a joke jewel. I am thankful for God as well. I thank God for people like you and Mark as well all the time.
lol, philosophers, preachers and scientist all get axed. I think they get axed because they bring in a new way of thinking that in some ways scares people from the norm.
I was a little shook once when I finally fathomed how large the Universe is, but it only got me more excited, I was getting a little bored with the shinanagans of Earth, thank God for those Catholics back in the day, Kepler, Caprinicus, Newton (though Arianian) Nostradomus for thier works ehh. Just to name a few.
Hi Sandra, waz up? (is that how you mis-spell it! ?
)
How's the little one? and how can we make this look like a religion conversation...so we don't get "Maddied" ? HAHA!Ok, gottcha I just sent you a pm, anyways, religion...
For the most part, the only problem I have with religion is when one group wants to dominate another group, or when one group makes another one feel evil, condemed or otherwise wrong about how they chose to know and love God.
As a personal belief, I do believe there is just one God, however I also believe that in that One God, there are many different interpretations, there are numerous texts written, there are other ways to show God love and to show each other love and finding one that fits best for youself is an achiement and I honestly really feel that chosing how you want to worship or where or when or how to pray is completely up the indavidual.
I have strongly dislike the christain chuch because I believe it goes completely againts Jesus' intentions. I think it is foul play and disturbing when people will fight or otherwise hate people who do not believe in anothers particular faith or belief.
Yes, I have strong feelings about Jesus but no I do not believe he is God. I believe that you can read the world in the stars and that the stars (Universe) have a lot to do with our behavior and patterns of the Earth, so with that I do not believe that Jesus is a wrathful deity, nor do I believe that God it'self is a wrathful one of sorts either.
There may be a place called hell but I don't believe anyone will go there and I also believe that Heaven is a place for everyone and everyone will go. I don't believe anyone has to worship God of any sorts to be saved, but I do believe that even just a smidge of gratidude for even the Earth is good. It's called respect for the world we live in.
I don't believe the world will change itself and I do believe that people shape the world. So I do want to push for a better place, but not because of God or how I feel about God, it's because of how I feel about life in general and how I feel about the whole Universe.
I do wish people held the same attitude, but I know that it is almost if not completely impossible to get people to know and understand or have better faith that it is ok to chose your own way, if not better because in this way you can be exteremly personal with God, be who you are and not feel as though you have done something wrong in regards to what another person tells you.
I do not believe that there is only one way. And I will never not believe there is a God.
Please show me an example of this particular atheist saying people do not have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe and act on their convictions.
If you think it is OK that Islamic believers think they are going to heaven if they die killing an unbeliever, that is your right.
And if you think sitting around praying for things to change is "acting," on your convictions, I don't really know what to say to you.
And it is your choice if you think raising children in a belief system like this is healthy. But what you really mean is - your belief system. If that's what you need to do to get through the day, then I will not try to stop you.
Cynicism and sarcasm are healthy ways of expressing your self because they cause you to question things. Not just if there is a god, but whether or not some things are "right," and whether or not you are being manipulated in the manner Zarm is talking about. This is far healthier than teaching children that there is a god, and no matter how many people they murder, no matter what damage they do to those around them as long as they profess "love," they will go to heaven. It's a cop-out. It's denial. It gives up all personal authority, and has caused more wars, suffering and hardship than anything else I know of.
I have bought my children up to question things. Not sit in front of a candle saying they "love," people they have not met and thinking they are making a difference by doing nothing.
I did say that I believe that raising children in a belief system is healthy... please reread what I said...what I said...not what you wanted to hear. I said a belief system is healthy...how you interpreted that is on you. Assumptions and opinions...oh the problems they cause! I can only speak from my own experiences and my own perceptions.
As always Mark, you are in my prayers! poke poke
Love yaLOL - Yes, you said that you believe that raising children in a belief system is healthy. That is what I heard. Why do you believe that? Do you somehow equate a belief system with a value system? And that one cannot exist without the other as many of the christians do?
Raising children to believe that the world was created last week by an all-powerful god who will punish you if you don't do as the priest tells you?
Or do you really mean that you think raising children in your belief system is healthy. And that other's aren't presumably?
Pray away Love ya right back.No atheism is not a belief system. I have explained in detail what atheism is on one of the other threads.
And a value system is not a belief system either.
So you are choosing to use the words "belief system," in a way other than a belief in a higher power then? When you say belief system, you mean like believing that milk will go bad if you leave it in the sun, or believing that the mail will be delivered or believing that things fall to the floor when you drop them or believing that the earth is flat......
Pretty much any belief is a belief system, which rather makes your first statement meaningless. Because everyone raises all children in a belief system of one kind or another. Even it's the belief that children should be seen and not heard and thrashed once a week for their own good.
I don't believe in coincidences either. Or lawyers, or the law, or the government. Rule one - question everything.Darn, I just got done giving a thorough response and then hubpages went down and lost it (smilie with gritted teeth !)
No, I was using the term "belief system" in the context of a higher power. It is a higher consciousness to know that milk will spoil if left in the sun; it is a higher consciousness to know that beating your children is not the best for the child or one's self; it is a higher consciousness to believe that prayer for the economy, for instance, will make a difference, but that it may not be immediately apparent because it is spread out among people that all have their own idea of how it works, or doesn't work, and change will not happen overnight. And that the mass consciousness and its diversity creates chaos. But I do believe that it can be worked out, eventually.
so, even though I was speaking in general of a belief system, I did mean one of a higher consciousness...and I know this is where you and I seem to have our chasm of lack of understanding each other. I do believe humanity is more, spiritually (has a higher consciousness) than most even know. I certainly have found it to be so.
A higher consciousness beyond knowing milk will sour, which is higher than not knowing. A higher consciousness that believes in the power of one's own consciousness because it is connected to levels of divine consciousness, Mind of God, that knows All. Akasha is the memory part of that All Mind of limitless energy, past present and future, is of the Source of All. This connection is what a path of enlightenment is all about, a study of mystical religions is all about, the whole Oneness thing.
In my book atheism is a belief system on the spectrum at a particular point on the grand scale...but I perceive it only as I do and can't possibly perceive it as you do...it is yours. We really don't need to go into that again !
- Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago0
Good Morning Zarm,
Nice to meet you too! Now that I have a glimpse at starting to know you, feel free to check out some of my hubs to get to know me. If you reread my previous entry, the one you are responding to, you will see that I tried to be unbiased/middle ground. Maybe I could use the words "Some" people more often, but I did use them and similar ones.
Yes I have opinions of my own, as do you. And mine are what they are for now...I do try to learn and change as necessary. Assumptions of what others think...we all have them, right...that mirror that reflects back from another at us what really comes from within ourselves.
I am no big logical thinker, but I am trying to learn balance between logical and spiritual thought for discussion and writing. Feel free to leave any input on my hubs you desire, I may not leave them up if they get nasty, but I will read and consider them!
You could write some hubs of good length, you have a lot to say. Give it a try.
Welcome to HubPages
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
I for one am completely sarcastic, I do try to watch what I say, but I find it hard to watch something I can not see. lol.
LOL Zarm,
You lost me. I managed to read your post on the neighbor thread, but I can't for the life of me start another marathon here. Please, I enjoy reading what you have to say - but in moderation Make them several times shorter, please, and don't pack your whole worldview into a single post. We are having conversation here, not lecture, right?
I have no intention to offend you in any way, I'm just begging you to put your thoughts into more comprehendable packageCan't even say "LOL" cause I know very well how you feel...
To start with, I myself is INT(P-J). At least I was when I last time took the test. So I can easily relate on most of what you are saying...
To continue, my older son is 25 years old and looks very much like you All that makes me very partial to you, really...
And I like very much what you have to say - when I force myself to make enough effort to read it. I see that you are searching, I see that you know a lot already, I see that you knowledge is not parroting, I see that you are honest to yourself and others...
So I might be able to help you a bit if I can share how I deal with the problem. First - I edit. If I write anything longer than a single sentence, I spend way more time editing it than writing. Trying to make it as short as possible and as understandable as possible.
Second - I try to have it one piece at a time. Talking about the whole worldview was a metaphor, but it has a grain of truth to it. I know very well that in order to explain this concept you have to explain this one first and that one even before. Well, I gave up on this, and I'm trying to explain those underlying ones in subsequent posts - if needed at all.
Sure it's not always possible, but even trying to do this makes a text much more readable
And at least you know to break it in paragraphs!
The best thing about all that "writing discipline" is that after you go through such a torture of putting your thoughts in order, you get much clearer picture for yourself, too
Hope I did not offend you in any part, and if I did - it was unintentional, and I am sorry for that...
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
Gosh, Wish you were around to lay into my own mom for givin me the beatin in the grocery store. Of course my Mom woulda layed into you as well. She's like that.
Last night my husband said something interesting. He usually doesn't say anything interesting at all. He said: Religions are just another political system, a different form of government. Well, it sucks that hubpages died and you lost that. (not going to make another huge quote)
But - I don't understand how a higher consciousness has anything to do with the economy. As I understand it, the two are mutually exclusive.
Whenever I plug into what you choose to call higher consciousness, I have no interest in or awareness of something so mundane. And certainly have no interest in attempting to bend it to my will. Or see the point.
But most "lowly consciousnesses" know not to drink spoiled milk. And most predatory animals will not eat diseased tissues.
As far as "oneness" goes, this has very little to do with our day-to-day distractions. And matters not a whit. Like a grain of sand on the beach....Zarm, that reminds me:
lol mark. funny picture man gave me teh giggles
- sandra rinckposted 15 years ago0
I am a geek too Zarm.
- Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago0
- Zarm Nefilinposted 15 years ago0
I have got three good things that come out of religion in general.
#1 Charity
Can't deny this, and a lot of good work is done as well as bad through this mechanism.
#2 Social sense of deep interconnectedness
Religion usually provides this between the various families in a parish
#3 The intention to try to face life's problems
In my opinion even though this gets warped badly and results in untold suffering, at least it's there even if it is through magical thinking and in what is in my opinion a basically flawed outlook.
Those are three things I find good in most major religions.
Those three things also happen to be present to some extent and through various manifestations in the system of ethics and morals known as Secular Humanism as well.
Most cannibals I know...er ... most other uncivilized people have these things in some respects already present in some manifestation within whatever religion or spirituality they have themselves. LOL My Goddess, you are so funny
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