Why Do You Believe?

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   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   Why do you believe your religious belief over all others?

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      SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Is this a repeat question?

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Nope. Now why do you believe in Jesus out of all the others? I think I know, do you know?

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Fear.

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         That too. But I think passion outweighs the fear. Example, a passionate suicide bombers passion of belief over fear of death.

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         SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And I thought you stated before that you fear nothing.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thought. Interesting. Not seeing the connection. You thought.... No - not resonating.
            
            Help me out here Dent. Quote me or something.
            
            Fear. Dent. Yes - that is working.

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               SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I actually wrote that as a joke. I knew what you meant when you wrote fear.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I fear lots of things. Missed the joke - sorry. I hate to have to ask to have jokes explained to me but...........?

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                     SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     When you answered fear, I thought you answered for believers.

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   Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

   Why I believe in God...  My answer is in my hub about it.
   
   I believe that the way I have examined everything has eliminated all the baggage...that is why what I believe is to me the truth. What I believe makes sense logically and emotionally.
   
   Also because, so far at least, not one person has been able to show me anything better, or put a hole in what I believe.

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hello Mikel.
      
      Does passion have anything to do with it?

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         Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Emotions yes, intuition absolutely, passion in the strictest sense...no.
         
         
         {Hello my friend  }

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            marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Mikel, passion/emotions are the same thing.
            
            The logical attempt to separate emotions from belief.

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               Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               intuition is based in feelings/emotions...passion may be an emotion...that doesn't make emotion passion.
               
               anger and rage are both emotions, they are not emotion.
               
               Logic when dealing with things that are beyond logic can only take you so far. The logic in my beliefs makes sense, the emotions take me someplace further along the path, and they make sense to me as well.

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                  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  lol What?
                  
                  anger and rage are and can be passionate emotions. Intuition can also be a passionate emotion. The passionate emotions are the ones you believe the most. Passion and emotion are the same. Both are belief in something you have emotion to believe.

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                     Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     can be
                     
                     which makes them a part of....that does not make them the total package.
                     
                     2+2=4 is a part of mathematics...it is not the total package of math.
                     
                     the passionate emotions are the ones you feel the most...

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                        marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        So your intuition tells you there is a God, you admitted that your intuition is emotion. Emotions/Passion/Faith, are all one in the same while logical separates it. No matter how many equations you add, it's not logic that defines your belief of God, it's emotions/passion. Correct?

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                           Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           No...not really.
                           
                           I have stated that my emotions play a part in my belief. They are not the entire and only reason I believe what I believe. Logic, rational thought, and scientific examination also play a big role in it.

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                              Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Not really Mikel. you do not seem to know the meaning of those words. Sorry. You believe for the exact reason you say. - It makes you feel better.
                              
                              LOLogic

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                              marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I have stated that logic separates emotions for evidence of what to believe. Your emotions in belief contradict the logic in belief. Maybe it would help me if you stated what part is emotional and what part is logical in short without me reading a hub. Thanks.

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                                 Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 You have stated that. I don't necessarily agree however.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 This I disagree with. It isn't one or the other, it is the combination of both and more.
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 A quick and easy one sentence answer doesn't exist, sorry... If you really want the answer, you'll have to read the answer.

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                                    marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Do you believe what makes you feel good or emotional or what you only have logical evidence of?

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                                       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Read the hub, that is the best answer I can give you.

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                                          Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Trying to generate traffic, you naughty little boy. 

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                                             Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             What would I get out of generating traffic? A higher number on my avatar? What good is that to me?
                                             
                                             So why would I care?

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                                                Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Probably for the same reasons you believe you're smarter than Newton and Einstein? 

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                                                   Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   You can read my mind?
                                                   
                                                   Because I have to tell you, I don't think I'm smarter than them (in fact I state that Einstein is smarter than me, and is one of the reasons I believe in God in the hub Marine and I are discussing). But since you say that is what I think, it must be true.
                                                   
                                                   For the record, just because I disagree with someone, even someone smarter than me, does not mean I think I'm smarter than them, it just means I disagree.
                                                   
                                                   I have shown why I disagree, and on what points. Do you have any points that prove me wrong? Other than some famous smart guy said something years ago and that makes it true. (the smart people back in the day said the world was flat too...)

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                                                      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                      The difference would be that I wouldn't disagree with subject matter that I didn't understand.
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      
                                                      It is flat, prove me wrong. 

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                                                         Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                         
                                                         
                                                         
                                                         I really wish HP would come up with an Ignore setting...

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                                                            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                            See, it is flat.

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                                       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       I believe that the logical evidence proves the possiblity of the emotional evidence being true. Anything that has been logically proven false I have dismissed, even if emotionally it made me feel better. The what is God hub answers this part of your question, I think...
                                       
                                       

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                                          Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          And what - pray tell - has been logically proven false?

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                                             Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             read the hub.

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                                                Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                Gawd you are lazy. No wonder them illegal aliens stole your job and all your money.
                                                
                                                Dear me.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I can eat and relish Swiss Cheese, too. 

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      getmybackposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      off to read it.
      
      billY

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   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   Mikel, I will read the hub and get back to you. Thanks.

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      Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      sure, I look forward to that debate. 

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   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   Mikel, I want to talk about this in sections of the hub. Here is the first few lines. You state that you use logic first before faith, however, the first few lines of the hub clearly shows you use faith before logic. If there is no proof of God, there is no logic of God. If there is no logical proof of God, there is only faith of God. Comfort/Emotion is not logical belief. It is faithful belief.
   
   
   "Logic takes me to where the proof ends, Faith takes me home"
   
   
   I believe in God because there is no Proof that God doesn't exist.
   
   The belief that God exists gives me comfort

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      Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The first few lines I wrote as a topic overview of the hub. The placement there does not mean that is the order in which my beliefs came about. Or what importance they have.

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Alright, i'm still reading. Here you are saying you have faith because it takes away your fear. These are emotions, more contradictions of logical belief.
         
         
         "My Feeling...My Faith
         The gentle peace that comes over me when I know God is near. The miracles I see, and the absence of fear."

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            Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The section that deals with the emotional side is the section you are referencing, of course the emotions are talked about there.
            
            Faith in God gives comfort which does lessen fear. Having emotions does not however contradict the logic.

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               marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               They do. This is the point of logic, ruling out emotions to find truthful evidence rather than evidence that gives the most passion/emotions/comfort. God = Passion, correct?

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                  Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  
                  not necessarily
                  
                  So why don't we talk about the 2/3's of the hub you skipped over that deals with the logic? Why are you wanting to skip ahead to the poem about feelings (which is a very small part of the hub) while ignoring all the logic?
                  
                  Is it because of your emotional need to dismiss the emotions?

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                     marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Why do you think I want to dismiss all emotions? I am simply saying the hub looks based mostly on emotions/faith/passion rather than logic.
                     
                     Saying you believe in God because God can't be ruled out is not logical evidence to believe in God. This is faithful evidence. Logic claims only what can be observed or defined. Logic does not jump to faithful assumptions to beleve and title your creation to God when you don't have the logical evidence. You have emotions of something you have no logical evidence of, yet claim it is based on logic. Again, logic separates emotions to find evidence.

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                        Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Ok then this part of the hub:
                        
                        The real Logical debate is, Can something exist without proof?
                        
                        Can it?
                        
                        in fact here is the entire statement from that section of the hub about this point of debate:
                        
                        The real logical debate is can something exist that cannot be proven to exist.
                        
                        The absolutely overwhelming answer is yes it can. Proof does not bring something into existence. Many things exist that we cannot prove exist. DNA existed millions of years ago, long before humanity could prove it. Or are you stating that DNA came into existence only after science was able to prove it existed?
                        
                        Proving or disproving an unprovable entity exists, is not possible... yet. The only fallacy involved in believing in an unprovable concept is requiring proof in order to believe. If proof is required in order to believe, show me the proof that God doesn't exist.
                        
                        Believing that God exists is not the same thing as believing that Christianity, or the Jews and Muslims for that matter, are correct about God and what God is. I cite Evolution as proof/evidence that a Creator (God) used Intelligent Design(DNA) to create life, life and life forms that get better over time.

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                           marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           lol You are assuming a God does exist because it gives you comfort over the possibility that a God doesn't exist. This is not basis for logical belief. This is basis for a faithful belief. A logical belief doesn't jump to assumptions. Proof doesn't bring things into existence, but it brings them to a logical reality. Nothing you have brings your idea of God to a logical reality. What is your logical evidence that your idea of God started evolution? Evolution is proof of design, but it is only faithful assumptions to title the designer God. Logic doesn't know or claim to know who or what designed it to make them feel comfort.

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                              Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              
                              
                              Logically, there is a 50/50 chance that God exists. I choose the logical half that gives me comfort. The comfort I recieve does not dismiss the logic that there is a 50/50 chance.
                              
                              
                              
                              The emotions are not proof of, or the basis for, the logical part of the belief. Being swayed by the emotions to make a choice where there is no logical answer does not dismiss the logic that led to that particular fork in the road. Logic got us to a certain point, after that point there is only emotional proof, therefore the logical choice is the choice that gives the chooser more... in this case the gain is an emotional one, comfort. That is logical. A faithful belief is any belief that cannot be proven, so either choice is a faithful one.
                              
                              
                              
                              
                              I believe what your saying is there is not empirical proof that God exists (or not). If that is what your looking for, you won't find it...because it doesn't exist, or at least we don't have the ability to produce that evidence yet.
                              
                              
                              
                              
                              That answer is in my hub, What I believe God is... (and it is a long answer as well)
                              
                              
                              
                              
                              If evolution is proof of design. Then a design is proof of a designer. I call that entity (the Designer) God. The belief that this logical conclusion leads me to, is comforting to me. It is also logical.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 You are comforted by a logical fallacy?

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                                 marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 lol Logic is not filling in the other half of the 50% by faith to fill the gaps. The half you choose for comfort contradicts your logic. What is logical might not be believed because it challenges your comfort. Seeing that something has design is logical. Saying you know who or what the designer is with 50% of your evidence being out of comfort or faith is illogical.

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                                    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    the entire 100% is filled in by faith. unless you have proof that I am unaware of.
                                    
                                    Since the entire 100% is a faith based belief no matter which 50% you choose you're choosing on a faith basis.
                                    
                                    50% A belief that God does not exist.
                                    50% A belief that God does exist.
                                    
                                    Until we have proof one way or the other, both choices are based on faith.

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                                       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Looks like a new twist on the reverse gamblers fallacy.

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