Ego and Belief?

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   TruthDebaterposted 14 years ago

   Why do so many criticize others for having too much ego in their belief, while they hypocritically have ego that their belief is right with others being wrong? 
   
   Is it possible to have an unbiased view of a subject when ego and pride are attached to your personal beliefs?
   
   If there is no pride or ego in the belief, does the person have pride in themselves? How could a person have pride in themselves if no pride in their beliefs?

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      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't know but that sounded to me as if the question went full circle ,  and then in a shy manner ask if people really believe in what they believe cause if they don't? do they believe in themselves??
      
        And if we don't believe in themselves do they really have pride or ego.
        What is pride and ego any way?  Where does it come from?
        Is it real??

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         TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. You asked more than you answered lol. I think pride and ego are emotions that can motivate or make a person look foolish. I think they come from a person being proud of themselves or their accomplishments. How many people are successful in life that don't have pride or ego?

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            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I think that pride may spring out up of an emotion but in itself and of it self is false.  What are we to be proud of? Good looks, we were born with that.  Inteligence ?  again; we were born with the that inclination.  Strength and health ?  Again we had nothing to do with that either.
            
               Can I be proud that I didn't make any more stupid mistakes than I did, given what I was given ?  Maybe ?
               It is witten that we can no even be proud of having faith in God  cause that to is a gift from God! He gives it to who he pleases!  This is what I do not understand ! Christians feel  they have to evanelize? 
            
            we gotta feed the hungry if they want it! That is about it.

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               TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks.
               If a person isn't proud of anything, have they accomplished anything? Why would  a person work so hard for something, then not recognize and reflect to the enjoyment of accomplishing their goals? If you weren't proud of your faith in God, I don't think you would constantly mention God. How many people go around consistently repeating things about themselves or their belief they aren't proud of? Not too often. Unless you only speak of God because you are ashamed, then you are proud of your belief, no?

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                  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I think it is the word "Pride" That I differ with.
                  Pleased with my accomlishments ?  OK  Pride ? Not from my definition of Pride.

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                     TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks. What is your definition?

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                        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        my keys are sticking  Short answer ... Arrogant;  taking all the credit!

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                           TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Thanks. If that is your definiton, so be it, but I disagree. I think pride is as defined in many dictionaries, a feeling/emotion of self-respect and personal worth.

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                              Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Can anyone truly measure themselves accurately ????

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                                 TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks. I think maybe to an extent, not fully. Could a person measure themselves accurately without others to compare and communicate with?

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                                    Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think that that compairing ourselves to others is not a good thing to do. We would either be looking down on them or thinking too poorly of ourselves. 
                                    
                                      If we are to do any compairing at all it should be compairing ourselves to the person that we wanted to be or should have been. 
                                    
                                       Everyone else I try to look straight across at no matter how tall/short they are.

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                                       TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Thanks. Comparison also includes receiving feedback of how others perceive us compared to how we perceive ourselves. If ours or the outside perspectives don't add up, this usually means we are giving out different or contradicting signals from how we perceive ourselves.
                                       I agree that comparing to role models is good for goals.
                                       Comparison doesn't always mean competition, if you don't adjust your vision, how can you look them in the eyes as equal?

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This statement is subjective to your individual bias and not worthy of an answer, because the actual truth is that it's double talk.
      Your usage of ego and pride are wrong in this context.
      You cannot NOT have one or the other, and actually be part of any sort of interaction with others.
      One does not have to have pride in their belief. The word pride doesn't nor should it be applied to a belief.
      You think? Or You know? You do not use the word "believe". Pride is not an emotion and neither is ego. Pride is tied to happiness and self-esteem. Ego is tied to an over-indulgence of self-confidence.
      Many people who are not successful have pride, but no ego. Many people who are not successful give themselves an over-inflated ego, based on faith.

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         TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. It's not double talk because I am covering the good and bad sides of them.
         Why couldn't a person interact with others without pride or ego?
         If you didn't have any pride in your belief that you know what you are talking about in your statement, how would you have written it? Belief is in everything you write or say, not just in a religious context. If you know something is true, you believe it is true, no difference. If you think something is true, begin to believe it's true, then you know it's true, no difference.
         You say pride is not an emotion, neither is ego. There is emotion or logic, which else is there? Happiness is emotion. Logic attempts to separate emotion. How do you get that pride/ego aren't emotions, then call them  happiness?
         The emotion of pride and ego is what makes a person fight defending their belief. Logic attempts to separate emotions to find the truth.
         I agree with the last two lines.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Because, it takes one or the other, just to interact with someone other than self.
            It's not pride in your belief, it is pride in self, not the belief itself.
            Not true. There is a difference in knowing something versus believing in something.
            Not true.
            Also not true. If you know something is a fact, there is no reason to have a belief about it.
            Your limited understanding of human beings is showing.
            Yes, happiness is an emotion. Having pride in yourself, leads to the emotion, but isn't an emotion.
            Be careful to not put words into my mouth. Neither are an emotion, they are human characteristics separately defined from emotion. Each has an emotional connection, but in and of themselves are not emotions.
            Not true. Pride and Ego do no such thing. Faith in self does that.
            The only thing that finds truth is wisdom.

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               TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks. Pride in self is belief in self. People have pride in beliefs as well. The only reason there is pride is because of confidence in a belief.
               How is there difference between knowing and believing? There are different levels, but if a person knows something, they believe it.
               Any facts have beliefs about them. It is the belief of the facts that make them facts to the person.
               
               "Pride is, depending on the interactional and cultural context,either a high sense of one's personal status (i.e., leading to judgements of personality and character) or the specific mostly positive emotion that is a product of praise or independent self-reflection. ...
               en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride"
               Not an emotion huh? Would you like to correct wikipedia along with everyone else you attempt to correct that disagrees with you?
               Limited understanding of human beings is displayed by your words when you get upset for people disagreeing with you. This is the emotions.
               We are emotional beings with evolved ego and pride. Many other animals display ego and pride when defending themselves or attracting mates.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I'll concede. Enjoy.
                  
                  You have no wisdom.

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                     TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks. You did a good job of proving my point.

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Didn't prove your point. You made yourself look foolish, because there is no wisdom in your words. So, much for being the "truthdebater".

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                           TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Thanks. What you fail to see is that there is wisdom in everyones words. The only thing foolish is your ego's hurt insults.

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                              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              If you see what I said as an insult, then it is obvious that your ego and belief have blinded you from the truth.

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                                 TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks. You have no thoughtful responses except, "You made yourself look foolish, because there is no wisdom in your words." "You have no wisdom." Your limited understanding of human beings is showing."  Go ahead, play it off. This is what you think wisdom is?

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      kessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ego and pride are not the foundational problem but the  substitute to mask the reality of the situation.
      
      Ignorance is the real culprit......
      
      Where there is knowledge, then what we see as "ego" and "pride" are not necessarily that but the reality of the knowing.
      
      Where there is ignorance what we then see are indeed ego and pride and stand in place so as to mask the lack of knowledge....
      
      Now those who have knowledge can easily recognise those who do not.
      But those who do not have knowledge cannot ever recognise those who do..
      
      Now this is the begining and the end and the continuaion of the perpetual cycle....
      
      Those who lacks knowledge will argue much among themselves , all being guilty of the things of which they accuse the other..
      
      While those with knowledge will forsake both, for the futility in the exercise of the ignorant is clearly seen.
      
      But Truth teaches all things.

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You know pride is one of the seven deadly sins.  Maybe this is why.  It is incredibly hard not to have an ego about something, you've poured your whole heart into it.  You know what I mean? 
      
      Another fact:  Out of the seven deadly sins, pride is the worse one of them all.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And it has no true value.

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         TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks. I understand where you are coming from about ego/pride. I don't think it makes sense for pride to be a sin. Jesus didn't have pride claiming he was son of God?
         I think pride is very useful and important, as long as it is used with awareness and logic.

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            the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            not being a christian, i have to say that i think the sin pride is different, like holding yourself above others, or like i dont know, not takeing your shoes off in someones house who asks of it because your "above that"
            
            Having pride in an accomplishment, like paying all of your bills on time with money to spare, or juggling work and time with the kids is different.
            
            I dont think they mean its a sin to be proud of your son for graduating, or anything like that.

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               TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Thanks. I think they are related, but at different levels.
               My main point from the bible is that it's not explained in the bible. It simply says pride is sin, it doesn't specify and define pride and which type is sin along with many other things left open to interpretation.
               When is the specific point of change a person has when having good pride turn to negative pride and ego?

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                  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  My keyboard froze up last night.  Didn't mean to be rude.
                  
                    I think that the bible does make it pretty clear. 
                  I understand it this way.  Self Pride is the thing that takes the place of thankfulness.
                  
                    We should be thankful if we have the ability to do those things that some people are proud of themselves for.
                  
                    Proud of our looks, intelligence, strength, whatever ?  We can't be proud of these things that we had no control over.
                  
                    Thankful  (to God, our DNA, Family friends etc???), is a good thing.
                  Scripture says that we should not even be proud of ourselves for having Faith cause this too was a Gift from God.
                  
                    People confuse Pride with confidence

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                     TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks. I don't think pride and confidence differ much if at all. Pride is belief in oneself or abilities, confidence is belief in oneself or abilities. I disagree with you that pride has no true value. Pride is emotion like confidence that motivates a person to have and keep value on themselves. If a person has no pride in telling the truth, what keeps them from lying all of the time?
                     I agree that being thankful and appreciative are also important emotions that should be balanced with pride.

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                        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        If Pride and self-confidence are of equal value I might agree with your comment.  But the way I "feel about" this word Pride..
                        It seems to carry a degree of arrogance with a bit too much self appreciation.
                        
                           Webster may say differently !!  But I don't think that they are the same.

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                           TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Thanks. I don't think it is pride that carries the arrogance, I think it's the ego that is a higher value of pride and self appreciation. I don't know if they have the same value, but they can be used together. If a person takes pride in their country, they are confident of their countries abilities.

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                              luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Perhaps Hubris is the word you're searching for then. It seems most closely to mean an abundance of pride.
                              
                              A destructive emotion in itself. It leads the person unopen to outside influence that might teach or impart knowledge or stimulate the imagination.

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                                 TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks. That seems to be the same as ego. I think ego is a better word for the inflated pride because it is more known. I think ego like hubris you described can also keep a person closed to outside knowledge if the person believes they already have all knowledge.

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                                    luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I disagree...while ego is pride in self . I think Hubris describes pride in a way meaning better then others.
                                    
                                    While it's true a person may be brought down by ego...with hubris it is an almost certainty.
                                    
                                    Examples: in ideology, evangelists of the Christian extreme right like the late Jerry Falwell come to mind and psychopathic dictators such as Mugabe of Zimbabwe.

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                                       Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Thank you for expressing it better than I could.

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                                       TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Thanks. It's alright to disagree. Ego like hubris is also defined is a person placing more importance on themselves than others, or viewing themselves as higher than others.
                                       You use hubris and I will use ego. I bet people won't have to look mine up as often as yours. lol
                                       Many with ego also have a belief of certainty like hubris. The more certain the belief in themselves, the less they open their minds to others beliefs.

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   Paradise7posted 14 years ago

   Sometimes it does seem like people's egos are inextricably wound up with their beliefs, because people get so sensitive and defensive when discussing what they believe.
   
   It all has to do with the tone of the thing:  sometimes people come across as very abrasive to other's beliefs that are different from his/her own.  I don't think it's ego, exactly--it sounds very defensive to me.  Maybe not ego but insecurity.

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      TruthDebaterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks. I agree with you we are emotional beings. This is why I think logic is useful when discussing beliefs in a civil manner with others. But it is almost impossible to do, especially on the religious forum because a simple disagreement or different perspective will often offend others. I do think it's ego and pride that makes a person defensive. I think a person gets defensive because they think they are right, or they don't want to be wrong. I also think insecurity is related with pride and ego.

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         the pink umbrellaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Dont get too defensive, and let yourself say something not too nice, they bump you off!

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