Christian Virtual Church

1. 83

   Jewelsposted 13 years ago

   Can anyone answer why it would not be more appropriate for Christians/Christian Fundamentalists to have their own virtual church?  Wouldn't that solve the problem of being scorned in the name of their religion?  Wouldn't that satisfy the hunger of Scripture readers to have their message heard, by people who actually wanted to hear and read them?
   
   If you truly, really surely want peace and tranquility, and the love of your God wouldn't you be better having your own place of worship, your own virtual worship space?  And advertise it as you please.  People at their own urgings can visit any time they please.  Wouldn't this be more appropriate than the hate spewing in a public forum?  Note this is a public forum which invites discussion.
   
   Wouldn't this entice people to your teachings more satisfactorily than having to defend your faith in a public forum?
   
   Just wondering what you think about this?

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   1. 60

      h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
         Having a virtual online church would not prevent the scorn. I am certain that where ever the line is drawn and christianity fenced in, those who despise it would seek out the line to cross.
        There are christian people on hubpages who post in the appropriate forums to discuss christian matters. People can opt to participate or not already. Threads that are preachy can be avoided  - I do it all the time.
        I think your idea is based on promoting peace. I just don't see what would be gained by moving the line others will still seek to cross.
        Holly

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2. 58

   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   Hay Jewels ...Good to see you some more.
   
     This sounds like a good idea on the surface... but... some people on here might like doing that.  BUT
     My self, I do not want to be a member of a mutual appreciation group.  No one learns anything when always being in agreement.
   
     My self. I have learned a lot about myself and my beliefs thanks to "Gettin into-it" with Mark, Earnest, Marine etc.   And you have made your contribution in your own way.
   
      By the way thanks guys.  And sometimes we all think that we have something that some other people need to hear whether they know it or not. I think that this goes both ways, for everyone.
   
      I must admit that we could be a lot more respectful at times.   I just wish we could hear a tone of voice when we read what other people are saying. It might sound more respectful than we imagine it to be.  We could try to think that it would.
   
      (disclaimer)...  That is just my opinion

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hiya Jeremy, good to read you.
      I personally enjoy the banter in the religious forum but by golly their is allot of venom being spewed back and forth.  As long as it is understood that this behavior is expected and normal then I suppose it's each to their own.  And for those who don't like the continuous hating, then the virtual church is an option.

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      1. 58

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I hear that!  too much of a good thing isn't a good thing.
         
            I think that people forget how easy it is to become worse than the thing that ya hate; when we aren't paying attention to how we are hateing it.

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         1. 83

            Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Gods, how darn true - 'BEING WORSE THAN THE THING THAT YA HATE"  Interesting how introversion shows what a polarity is really about and that mirrors and often advice are for the giver of it,  and not the intended receiver.

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3. 61

   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   Jewels,
   
   That is a relevant question you have presented regarding creating a virtual church as I believe you put it. Be advised that I can only speak for myself regarding this issue. Let me first start by saying there a lot, of people who do not have access to the Internet. So they would be denied the opportunity to be made aware of this Christian based teaching. Secondly, when people aren't aware of (who you are) and what you stand for. They can easily be convinced by others you are somehow a threat.
   
   Unfortunately, we won't find out until the end of the age if only two dimensions will exist Heaven and hell. The issue Christians are facing is that there may be people not aware that mankind's destiny is hell. And before Judgment Day God has given the church the task to inform people there is only one way to escape this destiny and that is to inform people we must accept Jesus the Christ as our Savior. Otherwise we will be lost to Heaven forever! The idea of being ridiculed, persecuted is something Christians have already been made aware of, because Christians understand that it isn't just human beings they have to deal with, it is also the demons and Satan himself that is doing battle against God and his followers.
   
   Jewels, there is one thing I'd like you to walk away with with regards to this issue, Christians present their message only as a choice, people are free to accept or reject the options presented to them.

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So  the reason Christians participate in forums is to lure others?  Cause if it's to pray wouldn't a virtual church be more appropriate?

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4. 65

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   The Church was never intended to be an intraverted organisation. It has been mandated to "preach the Gospel" to all the world.
   Just like the "bricks and mortar" churches don't get visited by non-believers, neither would they (by and large) the "virtual church".
   Hence, the many posts in many websites/forums. "He that has an ear, let him hear."
   BTW, a Google search resulted in the following for the term "online church"
   
   http://www.google.com.au/search?q=onlin … kQXet4nuBg

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   1. 58

      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I'll bet ya a nickel that most every Atheist have gone to church or even many churches
      
         They tried it and didn't like it.
         I was exposed to church very little while growing up and living at home.
      
         Started going in my twenties and again in my late thirties.
      I always believed in a God, but was never able to get into the Church that much.
         They never answering my questions was my biggest problem.
      I've always felt that "IF" Religion could explain the end time prophesy, that more people that came in for answers would stay if they were able to find them.
         
        The churches inability to understand these prophesy helps non believers to remain non believers.
         There is more to it than that , but that is part of it.

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   2. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As I've mentioned below, I wonder if preaching those gospels was misinterpreted and it should have been 'be the gospels and that's how you teach'.  Isn't there some scripture that says "show them the way."  To me that means leading by example and not telling people what to do.

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      1. 58

         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yep   Lead by example.
           I do not recall any story of Jesus going any place but the Temple to do his teaching.  There are stories that when he left the city multitudes of people followed him and then Jesus delivered more of his teachings.
            I do not recall him ever having a Carrie Nation attitude.

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         1. 83

            Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree Jerami.  Just as the body is our immediate temple, the temple being a church was for followers to congregate in or visit solely as a shrine to what they believed in.  Like any temple, it's a place for involution, contemplation or meditation.  It's a place where people who share common beliefs can magnify their own experiences.
            
            And I am positive that "go out and teach" was intended to mean "Go out and be as I am and then people will come to you"  You don't beat people over the head with words and expect them to just believe you.  They will however, follow and respect a person who is virtuous and has unconditional intentions.
            
            The extroverted church I see as a false church.  I am of the opinion  the teachings about spreading the word have been misinterpreted.

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            1. 58

               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Jewels said....
                  And I am positive that "go out and teach" was intended to mean "Go out and be as I am and then people will come to you"  You don't beat people over the head with words and expect them to just believe you.  They will however, follow and respect a person who is virtuous and has unconditional intentions.
               
               The extroverted church I see as a false church.  I am of the opinion  the teachings about spreading the word have been misinterpreted
               ===============================
                
               
               I think it should be compared to a restaurant. When there is delicious food being cooked, The aroma escaping out the doors and windows will create a full dinning room.
                  The happy patrons will tell their friends...
                 Ha ...  I know where some good food is at, I’m going back to get some more, do ya wanna go back with me? I think you’ll like it.

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               1. 58

                  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Instead - you have a bunch of people shouting about how good the food is - yet eating some where else.
                  
                  "Ha....... I know where some good food is - and you better eat there or the chef is going to come after you! I know you cannot smell it - but that is because you do not believe!!!!"

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                  1. 58

                     Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Yea I know.  Aint it a shame?   I did say that is the way that evangelizing  SHOULD  be.

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                     1. 58

                        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yup - a shame is right. Would'a should'a could'a......... Too late now. And the food ain't any good in the first place.

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                        1. 58

                           Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Well then if we were ever to go out for a bite I won't suggest going there.

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                           1. 58

                              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              OK - BBQ works for me.

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                              1. 58

                                 Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 We'll have to do that.. next time you are in town...
                                 I know the perfect place.  The beer is always cold.
                                 And I smoke the Best fall off the bone, finger licking short ribs you have ever had.. AND   silverware is optional.

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                                 1. 58

                                    Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    I will take you up on that.

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                                    1. 58

                                       Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       Done deal !!

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   3. 51

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friend aka-dj
      
      Jesus' message was only limited to the House of Israel which consisted of twelve tribes; it was not for the gentiles or for the
      whole word. The extension has been made by the cunning Paul, it is his unauthorized activity. It is for this that the Church is considered anti-Christ; as it went against the teachings of Jesus and in fact opposed Jesus.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      1. 65

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         So what was the plan of God for the gentiles?
         I suppose it was Islam, right?
         
         I still suggest you go and actually READ the New Testament.
         
         Besides, the main theme is NOT (cunning) Apostle Paul, It is Jesus Christ.

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5. 54

   (Q)posted 13 years ago

   Since it is now unlawful to burn heretics at the stake or any other kind of ritual killing towards unbelievers, people are now herded into churches once a week to reinforce their indoctrination and bring new recruits (children) to the flock.

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      and enduring sermons and herded into a heartless cold building seems worse than the stake burning, well to me it is

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6. 61

   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   Jewels,
   
   As I tried to present in my previous post that Christians belief is in the idea that mankind's destiny is straight for hell and to avoid this awful fate God has placed the church here on earth, his people to give others the opportunity to escape this punishment. This means that those people who are in the business of prostitution can ask God to forgiveness them of their sins and the same for the thief, murderer, liars, cheaters all can be forgiven except those who reject the offer of salvation and nonbelievers.
   
   Your implication of luring people to church is inaccurate the Christian only wants to present you with another option and just like we receive mail options we become aware of what's available to us. How would it be if someone is caught up in an evil lifestyle never had the chance to know that they could have escaped eternal damnation?

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      If a person is a sex worker of their own choosing, for example, and gains much pleasure in their occupation, akin to the pleasure of being a desk clerk, or a pro tennis player who sells his skills for an income, is it the sex worker who is deemed evil, or the person who uses the sex worker? And who therefore needs saving?
      
      I often see that it's a person's judgement (opinion) that deems a person to be in a lifestyle not befitting what they see as "of God" .
      
      If only the Christian was christ like, saving yourself is the ultimate request isn't it?  And only by leading by example can you have an influence on someone else.  That someone else has to want it, they have to see that YOU are an example they would like to follow.  Otherwise why would they want it?
      
      What's missing in these sermons and the scripture verbage, is the intended love that was supposed to go with it.   If the intended lesson to mankind is "that you're destiny is hell" then this is exactly where people will go.  And those fighting this particular destiny are already in it and trying to get out.  But a major mistake is that the Christian fold are hellbent on trying to change everyone else except themselves.  This does not work and it never has and never will.
      
      I do wonder if a different tactic wouldn't be more wise.

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7. 0

   Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

   Jewels,
   Either way I see no value in an organized church -by sensation or equation. One corrupts through preaching Adam the other through splicing atoms. But I see your point. Perhaps, this venting is healthy in some way allowing both sides to air their "dirty laundry" and -with any progress- find some common ground.
   
   What I find most interesting in these lowly six months here, is most are solely engaging the forums for only argument from a very limited engagement/experience of either side. Religions who have experienced little science and scientist who honestly have experienced little faith. Like most humans, whatever they were personally looking for/expecting did not fulfill the need and so they retreat to a kind of self loathing apathy. A shame really, because there is much to understand from both if both would occupy the space they share with full throttle interest in understanding.

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with the limited experience from either side.  I was raised Catholic as were many current non-christians.  I'm generalizing when I say that verbage in general does not bring people to want to uncover their spiritual selves.   Having been preached to for decades, I was educated in a Catholic school, I found it empty because those teaching the doctrines were not practicing it and therefore it created a false note. Why on earth would I follow that?
      
      I personally, in my experience, found the modern Christian faith empty of presence and full of pomp and ceremony that served no-one.  Those that are out in the world giving service, as in charity work and caring for those who need and want to be cared for, have my respect.
      
      I don't need saving as a consequence of my leaving this stream of indoctrination.  I have however, found something more experiential and which is teaming with something that feeds me spiritually.
      
      It's interesting too, that many real spiritual teachers have a great interest in science and are educated to very high levels.  And there are many scientists who are in touch with their own spiritual selves.
      
      My suggestion about an organized church - online at least, was to accommodate those who wanted to partake in it's teachings.  Instead of the full blown scripture reading on a discussion forum.
      
      But of course, it's the intention to blast people with this form of preaching. Consequently the arguments will continue as they always have.

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8. 61

   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   Jewels,
   
   Having read several of your post I'm under the impression you must be an atheist. The messages that I conveyed to you, you interpret as some sort of tactic. You are free to imagine whatever it is you wish to imagine the reality is however no one is forcing you are anyone who believes like you to do anything but what you're already doing. If you reject the concept of Christian teaching and then I say please be about your life and have a good day.

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I am being about my life and having a good day.  You are in fact wrong in your assumptions to suggest I am an atheist.  You have drawn an incorrect conclusion.  I do however, not follow the teachings of the modern christian model and do not believe their is a personal God and I do not live in the fear that all are heading to hell.  It could be argued that we are already in hell but that is the subject of a person's own standpoint.  Being told you are in hell, and actually being in it are two different things.
      
      I had the question answered as to why modern Christians preach - it is part of their belief to save others. 
      
      My suggestion that Christians might benefit by having their own virtual church therefore is a useless suggestion as prayers are often said for other people and not themselves.

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9. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

   Obtaining converts to Christianity is as old as the religion itself.  Early promoters of the religion admitted they would use lies and false scripture to convince others to join them. 
   
   This included adding false gospels, changing historical texts, plagiarizing and distorting official records and much more.  The end justified the means, in other words. 
   
   Don't believe me?  Search for the earliest mention of Jesus in any contemporary records during the supposed lifespan of Jesus.  His reputation was composed of myths, conjecture, and downright lies by those pushing for new recruits. 
   
   The history of the Bible, both New an Old Testaments, are not substantiated by any know facts.  Even composers of the first four gospels cannot agree on the circumstances of his life. 
   
   There were TV evangelists back then too.  Just no TV to promote their message.  Very few "believers" take the time to actually find out how the Bible was compiled and instead just accept what they are told by other common men.

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   1. 83

      Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I do find that converting others is a means to distract true spiritual seekers.  Most models I know, and I have to admit I don't know them all, request that  seeker/spiritual person/religious follower - apply any form of spiritual teachings to their own lives. 
      This Christian phenomena is contrary to the norm imo.

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10. 58

    Jeramiposted 13 years ago

    In truth; I don't think that we can trace the CHURCH of today back any earlier than about 326 AD. 
       And by 380 AD; Getting converts was easy.

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    1. 59

       Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       True, the earliest accounts of the New Testament were written in Greek around the middle of the fourth century.  There were literally hundreds of "self proclaimed" gospels to choose from during this time.  Everyone wanted to get into the act. 
       
       Even the first four gospels are questionable as to their veracity with three of them plagiarized from the first determined to be "according to Mark."  Not written by him, but from hearsay.  Calling them the "inspired words of God" convinces many though!

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       1. 58

          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I have to agree. Kinda like going to the vegitable section at the grocery store, picking out those that you like, taking them home before ya blow up the store.

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          1. 83

             Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             You're very descriptive Jerami.  Sorry I missed out adding to the bbq invite.  That made me hungry and I'd love to come.

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             1. 58

                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Certainly you are invited. I'd want a little advance notice, so I could make the place look not so much like a RED  NECKS House.
                  You know  move the broken refrigerators off the front portch...  mow the grass from around the junk cars in the back yard, etc.
                
                
                  How often do ya get to Houston tx?

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                1. 83

                   Jewelsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   LOL. Not very often, closest I've come is Austin two years ago.  But you never know Jerami, and I'll give you warning.

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                   1. 58

                      Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Na; you realy don't need to give me much notice.
                      I'm not goina mow and we'll call everything  yard art.
                        Austin isn't all that far away. A coupla hours.

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