In your opinion, in writing, how professional or not is it, do you believe, when

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   Faith Reaperposted 11 years ago

   In your opinion, in writing, how professional or not is it, do you believe, when a writer . . .
   
   In your opinion, in writing, how professional or not is it when a writer (even if angry for whatever reason that day) published a work that contains profanity and calls certain persons idiots?  In other words, although there is freedom of speech to write what one thinks, but in your opinion, does it harm that writer's future, in maybe revealing a low IQ, when it is that true writers can write and make a such a point without lowering his/her standards to the point of name calling and profanity, thereby affecting that writer's reputation being called into question?

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   Tony DeLorgerposted 11 years ago

   Hi FR, I believe there is no room for anger and/or profanity in any professional forum, regardless of intent. One may offer an opinion that perhaps impacts on someone else, but to lower one's standards by mud slinging, simply lowers the professionalism and perceived standards of the writer. It's basically shooting yourself in the foot. I have in the past written is anger (personally not professionally) and have always regretted it. Effective writing comes from considered standards not from knee-jerk responses. Take care.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Tony,  I totally agree, 100%.  It is, as you state, shooting yourself in the foot, and harms your reputation as a writer, when that may be the field in which you wish to work, and any future offers, may not be accepted if this is known. Excellent!

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   ChristinSposted 11 years ago

   I think people have the right to express their anger, but certainly people should realize that profanity and insults win over no one and only make them look uncontrolled and unprofessional. I would hesitate to call writers who engage in that activity "professional writers" - Professional writers have higher standards usually. For example when Ann Coulter published a book saying that liberalism was a mental illness - that is repugnant. Many people consider her a "writer" and I suppose technically she is, she writes and sells books, but her books are not credible or professional. The same can be said for writers with all sorts of beliefs of course, that's just the first example that popped in my head.  - anything that has to insult others blatantly I think lacks not only credibility but humanity and I won't engage in it, even if I would happen to agree with the writers stance. 
   
   The only exception might be comedy writers - a lot of comedy gets pretty dicey, but it's supposed to because that is what it is.  I know there are several comedians who also do commentary and they can sometimes get kind of insensitive and course with it - but in that case it's usually to emphasize a point not to just insult people. (Satire as an example)  If you're writing news though or articles, books etc that are meant to be taken seriously - it is best not to engage in cursing, name calling etc. or it does make the writer look unintelligent and not credible.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi ChristinS, I agree totally here. Yes, we are all free to write about what we choose to write about, but just to blantantly use unprofessional language (unless in a script for a movie), but in an article just reflects badly on the writer.

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   tsmogposted 11 years ago

   I pondered this great question many times. I would say minimally here in a setting like HupPages it is not recommended or many similar writing sites. Yet, there are journal sites that have more lax rules. I teeter and toter when observing the purpose while contrasting with the purposeful of the article. I have seen some banter between articles at many sites be vindictive between authors battling it out with articles. And, I have seen a few waltzes, a walk with friendships, and even the creation of long term relationships.
   
   I am an advocate of authoring as well a skills with writing. Authoring as a theme being the responsibility of the article. I will admit I have written articles in opposition to another view once or twice and without a blush. And, too learning the "ropes" of the many groupings within both communities and a larger community I experimented.
   
   I wrote three articles using this for an example #@$!% representing an explicative. I sought levels of tolerance being immersed in a world of unknowns and immense diversity. Google analytics showed for me with all three articles when I switched from conventional (I did not say traditional) to a more commentary genre regarding the article that was the end point of reading.
   
   There were not any links offered at that point nor marketing opportunities, so the delineation of the writer's voice was the only change offering a prompt. The question of course was it profitable and offer a Return on Investment of any kind or type. Did that make a follower or did I lose a follower in any marketplace of followers, i.e. hubpages individual communities, the at large community, specific web based communities, and the web at large. Google Analytics helps with making those determinations.
   
   Another example is with leaning right and left to far, humanist views vs. religious, enterprise vs. governmental [consider here in America the government is "Of the People, by the People, and for the People" in any venue, state, or "community(s)], and etc. The question with a specific author is from one perspective is that simply a "cry for help" or is it a factor of common with language in everyday life. Argots come to life many times.
   
   Quite frankly a fact is most automotive repair manuals are written at the 14th grade reading level. Ponder IQ and language. Contrast and compare is offered. IQ and social IQ are two very distinct differing assessments. Dr. Howard H. Goleman emotional & social IQ offers consideration. Worth a peek.
   
   tim

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Wow, tsmog, thanks for the most insightful answer here!  I am all for a writer stating his or her views for sure, as I know I love to state mine, but when there appears to be no reason to attack, i.e., those who write recipe hubs, wasn't relevant.

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      tsmogposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hello and thank you Faith. I am at a loss with your remark regarding attacking recipe articles. You will have to point out an example for understanding. Personally I like them. I just don't bake, yet . . . who eats it is the question = diabetes
      
      tim

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   rose-the plannerposted 11 years ago

   I believe that expressing emotions, whatever they may be on a particular day, is sometimes essential for a writer to get their point across.  However, I firmly believe that when you attack others, within the context of your writing, then you will cause irreparable damage to yourself.  Once you put it down in black and white for the world to see, even if you regret it later and apologize, in my opinion, the damage has been done.  Whether you are writing down your thoughts or verbalizing them, it is vitally important to think it through beforehand.  Great question!  Take care and have a great day!  -Rose

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi rose-the planner, yes, I am all for expressing one's emotions but to attack others when it is not even pertinent to the article, as you state, does irreparable damage to the writer of such. Once it is in print . ..

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   suzettenaplesposted 11 years ago

   Faith:  Good question!  I have to side with first amendment rights.  Anyone has the right to publish anything they want to.  I do not believe in censorship.  Is it professional to do what you describe?  No, but I will always stand with someone's right to publish it.  I find censoring or monitoring what someone writes far more dangerous.  I find pornography (written or pictorial) abhorrent, but I spport their right to publish it.  The great art controversy of the Mapplethorp painting or sculpture (I forget which now) that was of Christ doused in urine to be blasphemy.  I was sickened by it, but I did support his right to show his work.
   
   If someone prints or publishes a book with name calling or falsehoods, the victim can sue for libel and should do so.  But, I find censoring anything far more dangerous.  This is how dictators and totalitarians take over, first by censoring bad things like pornography which everyone (or nearly everyone) supports.  Then before long they are censoring what truly professional people write.  It never ends until they only allow their poisonous words to be published.  While I find what you describe as unprofessional and bad, I have to side with first amendment rights.  It is up to the individual what he/she reads or rejects.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi suzzette, no, on censorship for sure, but I am trying to understand why a writer, just for no other reason than having a bad day, apparantely would bash others when it is not even pertinent to the article written?  I am not for censorship at all.

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      suzettenaplesposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I didn't realize you meant commenting on blogs etc.  It is a mean, cruel world and some people are just mean.  They are jealous and hurtful people.  I feel sorry for them but if it has nothing to do with the article I would just delete them.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks suzzette.  I should have been a little more clear.  It wasn't anything that I had written on; I just happened to read it in an HP hub, and this question popped into my head as to a writer's reputation.  I know we all have bad days, but . . .

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   TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years ago

   Freedom of speech has its limitations and its consequences, and people should recognize this.  When someone uses verbal attacks and/or profanity on a website, they demean the site and harm everybody on it.  They also damage their own reputations.
   
   I can tell you that there are several authors on HP I no longer read because of their verbal attacks and crude words.  They are not professional and they do not belong here.  Period.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi TIMETRAVELER2, Yes, that is what concerned me the most, is that the writer does not realize his or her reputation is damaged in the field of writing, if it was not script for a movie or anything of the such.  Thanks for the great answer! I agree.

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   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   
   
   Totally egregious.  When one writes, it is supposed to be professional and impersonal.  Profanity is not necessary whatsoever in writing unless it is in the fictional mode to describe the fictional character and his/her psychology and his/her stance on things.  Besides that, one need not to use profanity as there are other more descriptive synonyms or eloquent phraseologies to describe a person, place, and/or situation at hand.   
   
   Also it is quite immature to resort to namecalling people.  It does not matter if one vehemently disagrees with a person or persons, namecalling is totally uncalled for and is considered a hate speech.  There are civilized ways to address subjects, topics, and persons that one disagrees with without going into personal attack mode.  Going into attack mode will only discredit the writer in question and turn his/her audience against him/her.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      gmwilliams, Wow, I am so thrilled you have taken the time to answer this question in such an insightful and intelligent manner! I agree with your every word here. That image really brings it home!!!  Enough said.  Well, no need for any more answers.

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      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you so much for selecting my answer.  Thank you again.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You are so very welcome!  Thank you for the great answer.

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   DrRebeccaSandersposted 11 years ago

   There is never a reason for professional writing to include profanity or belittle people from my perspective.  Writing in that style means you are too emotionally involved and need to take a more objective view in your writing.  Passion is a necessary component in writing; but emotional involvement shadows objectivity. 
   
   Even an editorial that contains profanity and belittles people will not be well-received by most people.  Therefore, you will not be able to get your point across to the reader.

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      Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi DrRebeccaSanders, thank you so much for your insightful comment here.  Yes, that is exactly what it seems to me...highly unprofessional and really does not get your point across!  I appreciate the great comment here.
      
      Have a lovely Sunday.

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    SavannahEveposted 11 years ago

    I must say name calling and profanity are not necessary.  Now, as a person of Irish/Apache heritage and having a hot temper, I also can not honestly say I have not gone down that road when the aforementioned temper comes upon me!  Freedom in writing is an important point and the first amendment does guarantee it as Suzettenaples so intelligently pointed out.  There are countries where this is not possible so I am grateful for it here.  I do need to try and think first before stating what is on the tip of my tongue sometimes, and I think other writers with the emotional hotbuttons like myself should also try and do the same.  Thank you for this question.  I'm working on it! 

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Hello SavannahEve,  thanks for answering!  Yes, of course when writing poetry or a script, one must portray the true character of an individual, but when writing a non-fiction article about a subject, then to just interject such profanity or insults?

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    Kiwi Maxposted 11 years ago

    I believe going as far as calling someone an idiot in a piece of published writing can hurt your professional reputation.
    
    In my view, writers should avoid this & instead let their readers make the decision. If you are trying to portray the person as an idiot, just be creative how you say it

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Kiwi Max, thanks so much for answering.  Yes, in a non-fiction article to just include unrelated insults to unrelated group of persons that are unrelated to the topic of the article just does not make any sense, at least to me!

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    Borsiaposted 11 years ago

    It totally depends on the subject.
    If you are writing dialogue for gang members or some other "lowlife" types and you don't use any profanity you aren't writing a very realistic work. These people use profanity in almost every sentence and if you try to clean it up completely your work won't be believable by anyone who has ever dealt with these types of people.
    Likewise if you are writing in this vane and are including sex scenes they won't be believable either.
    Needless to say you are NOT trying to write a G rated book if this is your subject matter.
    You don't have to be a potty mouth and it detracts from a work if you use more than is absolutely required. But if you want something that is "real" it is unavoidable to that extent.
    Assuming that you are writing a work that is for adults you aren't going to shock anyone who would want to read that type of work. Your reader will either feel that you are more connected to your subject or they aren't your audience.
    The same goes for graphic violence or sex. It BELONGS in some types of work intended for mature adults and if you candy coat it you will come across as someone who probably doesn't really know that world and therefore aren't credible.
    Scene; two gang members are meeting to discuss offing someone.
    "Oh, hi there Jose is that a new bandana? It goes so well with your chains and skulls tattoos!" Little Bobby exclaimed as they kissed cheeks.
    Do you think that conversation would go like that?
    If you do then I suggest that you never write anything with gang members in it. Or any other R rated adult themes for that matter.
    You have to write for the scene in a way that that scene would really play out in real life,,, profanity and all.

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Borsia, totally agree in such writings as you have indicated here.   I am referring to for example an article on how to sell something and doing such. Thanks for answering!

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       Borsiaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Faith; there is no room for anything provocative in that type of article writing. As you obviously understand I am talking about fiction writing.
       Selling / article writing should always be rated G.

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, Dearest Borsia,  I should have made that a bit more clear in my question.  As I am not speaking of poetry or creative writing, but in articles such as "How to Do such and such . . . "  Yes, that is the point I was attempting to make exactly.  :

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    Rochelle Frankposted 11 years ago

    There is nothing (in my opinion) that says 'unprofessional" (in any profession), than using profanity and personal attack.  In my personal experience, I have known some people who have had military experience where they picked up some language and expressions that are considered offensive in general polite conversation.
    As a teacher in elementary grades, I made a conscious decision to NOT pick up those words and expressions, so I would not inadvertantly use them even in moments of frustration-- because it would not be professional and not set a good example.
    On the other hand, I understood the background of people in my experience. I didn't try to change them, and  it was a good thing for me. Because I  was used to hearing such language on occasion, I did not express shock when I heard children using profanity. (Which was their intent.) I could calmly respond to their  verbal indiscretions and apply the normal consequences in in unemotional  and professional way.
    As others have said-- If you are using it to characterize a player in your story, it is a different thing. On the other hand, it is a shame that so many movies think they have to use blue language in every other sentence.

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Rochelle Frank, thanks so much for answering here!  It is good you are patient and understand the why behind the language.  Here, I am speaking  as relates to an article, for example, "How to get out of debt" ,not creative writing or poetry,

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       Rochelle Frankposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I know you were talking about articles-- just wanted to add that it is not professional in other professions, as well.

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       Faith Reaperposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, it certainly is not professional either in the instances you have stated here too!  Thanks so much!  Have a lovely evening.

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