So, this is what happens when you privatize services?

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   Uninvited Writerposted 10 years ago

   I'm sure you've all heard of the lifeguard who was fired for saving someone's life out of his designated area...
   
   http://digitaljournal.com/article/327992

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      Cagsilposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Gathering from the other posts here, it's ridiculous for them to fire him, just because he went out of his area to guard. It's absurd.
      
      He did what was the right thing to do, save the person's life.

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   rebekahELLEposted 10 years ago

   The lifeguard did what he's trained to do and saved a life.
   I say kudos to him and the two guards who quit in protest.

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      ++++++ a multillion times.  There are two types of people in the work world-those who mindlessly follow protocol although it harms others in the process and others follow a higher moral compass.

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   UnnamedHaraldposted 10 years ago

   Ah, but corporations know best. They make money and are people and anyone knows that rich people are better than the rest of us. And they provide jobs-- why, there are three openings for lifeguards right now. You know, you can't just "do what's right" because that doesn't translate to the bottom line. When you show a profit, that's proof that you're right. That appears to be the real American Dream.

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      Becky Bruceposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Although a rather depressing statement... what you say is the truth UnnamedHarald! Money speaks such volumes in our society, those that have it are seen as good. Although I don't see how it's morally right for corporations to be holding millions and billions of dollars while people struggle to find work, put food on the table, and just survive. Yet, these same struggling individuals are often purchasing iPhones and other devices that support the very companies who hold all the money once belonging to far more Americans. Meritocracy- the idea that if you work hard you get paid for it really tricks people.

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         John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         To quote the man, "money doesn't talk, it swears"

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   John Holdenposted 10 years ago

   No doubt had he stood by and watched the man drown then he would have been prosecuted!
   
   Some days I think that the world has gone crazy,on others I'm sure it has!

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The sad thing is I think not, I suspect he would have been given a pat on the back by his employers for not endangering their bottom line, in the good old USA money is not only king but also a sound moral guide.

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         Chris Hughposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         A group of idiots took their rule book too seriously and made a bad decision. This is a good country, probably the most moral in the world. If you can think of a better country, please share.

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            John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            You can say that with a straight face!
            Remind me, how big is your prison population?

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               Chris Hughposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Remind me which country came to your rescue when "peace in our time" didn't work out so well?

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                  John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Does that make you more moral?
                  Surely a really moral country would not have billed us for the help?

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                  Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Come off it, firstly you know as well as I do that the US did not help Britain out of charity, we just didn't want to face a Nazi Germany that had conquered all of Europe by ourselves not to mention that we did nothing for a long time while the Nazis exterminated and conquered at will and did not join until their allies bombed us.
                  
                  Second it has nothing to do with the issue John raised which is the US criminal rate which is astronomical for a developed nation.

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                     John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Not just a developed nation Josak, the most moral developed nation in the world.

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                        Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Right, my bad.

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                           John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           So there

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            denisemaiposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            True, Chris. Although I can't speak on the morality issue I do agree that this a good country and I can't help but be annoyed by people who love to bash it and us as sport. I realize it is not perfect but show me a perfect country with 100% satisfaction.
            
            Tell me, John, what is the punishment in the UK for stealing? (I'm not being sarcastic. I genuinely want to know.) We put our thieves in prison. Not each and every one and Chris can speak on that with more authority but robbery is a felony here. When I traveled to Europe, I was told to expect to be robbed. I wasn't but it freaked me out a bit that thievery was so expected. So, maybe punishing thieves contributes to our large prison population? I know there are plenty of people released that shouldn't be. My friend's best friend was shot and killed by a criminal who was parolled because there was no room for him. The murder happened while he was robbing the armored truck he was driving. (Sad.)
            
            In a nutshell, I guess I'm responding because I want to agree that the USA is, indeed, a good country. We have some idiots but we have a lot of good people, too. More good than bad. And John, the UK is great, too. So, please don't take my pride in my country as a disdain for yours or any other.
            
            Kudos to the lifeguard for doing what he felt was right in spite of the consequences. I'm sure he'll make a lot of money going on news programs, writing books and being a celebrity now. Because that's really how people do it here. LOL

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               John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               denisemai, firstly, I'm sorry you were told to expect to be robbed. I'm in my 60s and have never been robbed, apart from once and then I'd put myself in a bad situation, let's just say it involved a woman and leave it at that, but in the normal course of my life, never been robbed and can't think of any of my friends who have either.
               
               Anyway, to get down to your main point, we have various punishments for thieves culminating in them being locked up, but again, that isn't the point. Chris claimed that the US was the most moral country in the world but how can that be if you have more thieves and murderers than another country? Theft and murder are highly immoral!

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                  denisemaiposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Haha. True. I agree with you on that point. And I'm chuckling a little at your robbery. Not that I think it's good you were robbed but your explanation is making me smile. I hope to save enough money or frequent flier miles again to revisit Europe--the UK in particular. It's a lifelong dream of mine to hole up in a small village for a few weeks and experience the real culture of a foreign country and not just the touristy cities ala "Eat, Pray, Love". When I do (fingers crossed!) I will relax my grip on my handbag a bit knowing that thieves are not actually lurking behind every pole.

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                     Chris Hughposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     You have a good sense of humor:)

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      Chris Hughposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I'm interested in the theory that the lifeguard would be prosecuted. I'm only licensed to practice law in California. I'd be interested in hearing about a state with such fundamentally different laws.

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         John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Wild speculation only I'm afraid, though I believe that in France for instance, such a prosecution would take place.

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         kirstenblogposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Wasn't there a law brought in in NY some years ago after a woman was violently raped and murdered on the side of the road with hundreds of witnesses who did nothing?
         This was long enough ago that I was young when I first heard the story so cannot be sure of the details, just the sense of shock and horror that no one would even call the cops out of a fear of 'getting involved'.
         I am not saying that such a law would apply as if you are not a qualified life saver, trying to save someone is more likely to result in two deaths instead of one. I just can see how a person could easily see the legal side of things damning you if you do and if you don't. Any time something goes wrong someone has to be blamed and not always the party that really should get the blame (assuming there is one and it's not a case of being an innocent accident).

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      gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      You are so correct, John.   Logic has completely flown out of the window so to speak!

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   wildernessposted 10 years ago

   This brings to mind the fire department that stood by and watched a house burn because they didn't "contribute" to the fire department and has some of the same ethical problems.
   
   The lifeguard left his job and left his charges unprotected without providing any replacement for them.  Absolutely a firing offense.
   
   He also saved a life by doing so.  The action of a hero - someone that did not count personal cost in the action.  Also a necessary action - how many could have stood by and watched someone drown for the sake of their job, or because there might be a life threatening problem during our brief absence?  Were he already in the middle of saving someone and simply left them to go outside his duty it might be different, but as is did he really have a choice at all?
   
   If he is not disciplined will all the company lifeguards now split their attention between the area and people they are supposed to protect and others far away?  Can they give a reasonable amount of care and protection if they do so?  One could argue that he should never have even seen that swimmer; his attention is to be solely on the section of beach he was supposed to protect.
   
   I don't have answers.  I just know I would have done the same thing and hang the consequences.

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      John Holdenposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      He didn't see him, a member of the public drew his attention to him!
      
      One could argue that whilst he was saving somebody on his section of beach, another swimmer also needed rescuing on his section of beach, go figure.

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         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I didn't catch that someone talked to him, but you're right.  Does it really make a difference, though?
         
         That's part of the ethical problem, all right.  For myself - no problem.  I'm more than willing to have "my" lifeguard leave to help someone else and leave me unprotected for a time.  If my child died as a result of that action I might have a different viewpoint, though (I hope not, but the emotional aspects are wildly different and I might).  After all, I've paid for that protection and is the reason I only swim in the protected area.

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   tirelesstravelerposted 10 years ago

   My husband got royally disciplined while working in a VA hospital.  Just out the the military, an energetic college student, he was a custodian for the summer. This man can clean. Thinking he was there to clean he went to work and was done 4 hours into his shift. He noticed the shower walls needed cleaning. The nurses were really impressed the yellow tile was suddenly sparkling white. (men's ward gross) While he was cleaning floors the supervisor came unglued. The night shift had the contract for the floors.  They would have fired him if he hadn't been a vet. God Bless the Veterans Administration.

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   Shanna11posted 10 years ago

   I'm so naive... these kinds of stories always strike me as unbelievable (even though I know they're true). I just can't imagine someone standing by and actually feeling okay or justified as they watch a house burn, knowing there are animals inside (as happened in an earlier story)....
   
   Or how people could expect their employees to just stand there as someone dies, just because "oops, they were outside our area"....
   
   I have too much faith in humanity, it seems.

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      JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is, things are never that black and white. People are told 'we can protect you here, but not there', and if someone is over there, they would take away the protection over here for all the people following the rules.
      
      Think of it this way. There is a lifeguard at a public pool. Right nextdoor is a private house and the owner is struggling in his own pool. Should the lifeguard leave the public pool without supervision to help the private citizen? What if someone in the public pool who paid for his protection needed his help while he was gone?
      
      I'm not saying he did right or wrong, I would have done what he did, but it's not as black and white as initial reaction might make it seem.

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         wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         That's the problem with these discussions - they are never black and white, and we never have all the information.
         
         The burning house, for instance.  The owner had voluntarily opted out of being a part of the fire protection plan, but most people don't know that although it changes the whole picture.
         
         Had someone (particularly a child) died as a result of that guard being away from his post this forum would have a whole different look.  It's just too easy to make calls based in partial information or consideration.

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   pagestowrite6656posted 10 years ago

   Looks as if all of us have some sort of problem...mine needs privatizing for security/hacker who recently got my Chrome, caused it to Crash, that is, and also hacked my Facebook. I am now off of Facebook maybe permanently for fear of hackers trying to get into my account and group. Just made this new account to work on securing my initial Hubpages account and begin again. I am so tired of Facebook issues and the inability for all of us to keep the whole thing secure. Too many holes in Facebook, in my opinion. Does anyone know how I can move my first Hubpages to the new one I just made today?  Thanks...Diane Woodson, Evansville, IN

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      wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The only way to move hubs to a second account is to unpublish them, wait for them to go off the google cache, and copy them into the new account.
      
      Time consuming, but that's all there is.  Don't forget that they will all lose any brownie points Google has given for age, and that if they are copied out there somewhere they will become the property of the thief instead of yours (they will no longer be published first, and you become the "thief" instead of the actual thief.

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   prettydarkhorseposted 10 years ago

   For good people, moral comes first before being legal!

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    lrohnerposted 10 years ago

    Although I do believe the lifeguard did the right thing, let's not forget the part the drowning man played in this. I believe this took place at Hallandale Beach in Florida. I've been there. I am relatively certain the beach the man was swimming on was very clearly marked as "swim at your own risk." So this idiot who didn't care enough about his own life to swim on a beach with trained lifeguards put others at risk. This poor lifeguard got caught in the middle and lost his job. I just hope that swimmer is spending his days pounding the pavement finding that lifeguard a new job and paying his bills until he lands one.

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    maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

    Josak the Nazi Germany was the least of the U.S. concern since we know that American companies dealt with the Nazi government. However it was a good economical and political opportunity!

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    Druid Dudeposted 10 years ago

    As to the forum subject...privatization chaos. The high cost of the Iraq war has been noted, but what many people don't know is this. One aspect was the privatization contractor supplied cooks for the ground forces. A cook signing on for a year in Iraq was paid one hundred thousand dollars for the contract. An army cook back in the day, got army pay. At this moment, on our military bases here in the U.S. more than likely, security is outsourced to private security companies, whose employees again are paid more than their old day military counterparts. Tax dollars at work and privatization at it's best. Have a nice day!

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